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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Idiosyncratic Hymn Tunes
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Clavus
Shipmate
# 9427
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Posted
Don't forget that 'Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken', and lots of other 8787 or 8787D hymnns, can also be sung to O My Darling Clementine!
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by scuffleball:
If you do west gallery you come to associate it with Gibraltar, where it is a standard startup tune alongside Come Sound his Praise Abroad to St Thomas.
As it happens, we may be having "St. Thomas" on Sunday to go with a good new(ish) American hymn "Let justice flow like streams" - to link in with Racial Justice Sunday and Martin Luther King.
Yes, but which one? Williams' Psalmody, 1770 (SM), I suspect, rather than Ashworth's Collection, 1760 (CM), or Samuel Webbe (87.87.87). There are times when referring to a tune by its name alone is not sufficiently precise! ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clavus:
Don't forget that 'Glorious Things of Thee are Spoken', and lots of other 8787 or 8787D hymnns, can also be sung to O My Darling Clementine!
Yes, and any 7676 one - e.g. Jerusalem the golden or O sacred head sore wounded - can be sung to Schubert's Die Forelle (The Trout), for that matter. But would you bother ...
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
One of the weirdest I've come across is caused by Kevin Mayhew citing 'Daily, Daily' as an 8787D tune which it blatently isn't. THe 'Hail Mary, Hail Mary, Hail Mary full of grace' ending is 66 and in my brain is strongly associated with those words (cf To be a Pilgrim and One Lord, One Faith One Church) to sing anything else to it let alone something with the wrong number of syllables. Can't remember which words it was, but it didn't work! I can't check because I don't own any hymnbooks published by Mr Mayhew...
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802
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Posted
While we are talking of 8787D tunes can I put in a plea for the wonderful Welsh tune Calon Lan. Does anybody know a translation or paraphrase in English of the original Welsh words that can be sung to the tune? "Calon Lan" means "a pure heart".
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
As it happens, we may be having "St. Thomas" on Sunday to go with a good new(ish) American hymn "Let justice flow like streams" - to link in with Racial Justice Sunday and Martin Luther King.
Yes, but which one? Williams' Psalmody, 1770 (SM), I suspect, rather than Ashworth's Collection, 1760 (CM), or Samuel Webbe (87.87.87). There are times when referring to a tune by its name alone is not sufficiently precise!
You are right - it is the Williams one, I hadn't realised there were others! I know there are at least two tunes called "St. Andrew", too.
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Carys:
One of the weirdest I've come across is caused by Kevin Mayhew citing 'Daily, Daily' as an 8787D tune which it blatently isn't. THe 'Hail Mary, Hail Mary, Hail Mary full of grace' ending is 66 and in my brain is strongly associated with those words (cf To be a Pilgrim and One Lord, One Faith One Church) to sing anything else to it let alone something with the wrong number of syllables. Can't remember which words it was, but it didn't work! I can't check because I don't own any hymnbooks published by Mr Mayhew...
Carys
I see what you mean, but even the English Hymnal (the old one) describes the tune (which it pairs, of course, with Sabine Baring-Gould's 'Daily daily sing the praises' rather than 'Ye who own the faith') as 8787D. If you use it for the latter, then the refrain will come out as Ha-il Mar-y (ter), full of grace - 8 + 7 syllables.
As a mild diversion you could also try it with 'Guide me O thou great Redeemer/Jehovah', ('a favourite hymn of Lady Huntingdon's young collegians') repeating the two last lines instead of the last alone ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
As it happens, we may be having "St. Thomas" on Sunday to go with a good new(ish) American hymn "Let justice flow like streams" - to link in with Racial Justice Sunday and Martin Luther King.
Yes, but which one? Williams' Psalmody, 1770 (SM), I suspect, rather than Ashworth's Collection, 1760 (CM), or Samuel Webbe (87.87.87). There are times when referring to a tune by its name alone is not sufficiently precise!
You are right - it is the Williams one, I hadn't realised there were others! I know there are at least two tunes called "St. Andrew", too.
Yes. Two Salzburgs, two St Gregorys, two Worcesters, to name but three pairs that have caused confusion chez nous ..
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
As a mild diversion you could also try it with 'Guide me O thou great Redeemer/Jehovah', ('a favourite hymn of Lady Huntingdon's young collegians') repeating the two last lines instead of the last alone
I've just tried humming that and it works a treat, with no need for repetitions.
The Old English Hymnal gives Ye who own as 87.87.87.6. Vaughan Williams couldn't face the Daily Daily tune so gives Den Der Vater Sinn Geboren, which I've never heard.
He adds By omitting the refrain of each verse this hymn may be sung to TANTUM ERGO No. 68
New English Hymnal piously repeats RVW's choice and adds Daily Daily.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Ye who own the faith of Jesus is the words. Daily daily is the tune.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Gwalchmai
I haven't been able to find a translation or paraphrase of Calon Lan so we sing the tune to different words:NEH number 141 - Holy Spirit, ever dwelling in the holiest realms of light. The given tune in the book is less than inspiring and choir and congregation enjoy Calon Lan far more...
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Leo
I can't sing (or play for)Ye who own the faith without singing under my breath O that I had wings of angels ...
Carys
The reason the metre is given as 8787D in Mayhew books is because that IS the metre - the tune is called Daily, daily because it was written for a Sabine Baring-Gould hymn of that name, the full chorus of which runs:
O, that I had wings of angels
Here to spread and heavenward fly;
I would seek the gates of Sion,
Far beyond the starry sky!
When the tune is used for Ye who own the faith the original rhythm of the last four lines is adapted so that
dotted quaver-semiquaver-crochet-crochet-dotted quaver-semiquaver-crochet-crochet
becomes
crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet
so 8 syllables become 6 by 'losing' the dotted rhythm. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Gwalchmai
I haven't been able to find a translation or paraphrase of Calon Lan so we sing the tune to different words:NEH number 141 - Holy Spirit, ever dwelling in the holiest realms of light. The given tune in the book is less than inspiring and choir and congregation enjoy Calon Lan far more...
One exists, "I ask not for ease and riches", but it has a certain doggerel quality to it, and I don't think I've ever heard it sung (although I see someone's been misguided enough to issue a recording of it).
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
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Thurible
Shipmate
# 3206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
Ye who own the faith of Jesus is the words. Daily daily is the tune.
Unless, you're singing Daily, daily. Sadly, I've yet to convince our PP to choose 'Ye who own' for Marian feasts at our shack. All the other NEH selection but not the best one!
Thurible
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"I've been baptised not lobotomised."
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
That's the hymn I mean by "Daily daily".
It's a shame NEH and old EH omit the verse from "Ye who own"
For the King of men and angels
Chose her out of all he made,
And in robes of grace and glory
Her humility arrayed;
With the radiant sun he clothed her,
At her feet the moon he laid.
Hail Mary, hail Mary, hail Mary full of grace.
One mo' time...
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by ldjjd:
I will not sing "Glorious Things of Thee Are Spoken" to Austria because of its sad association with Nazi Germany. Abbot's Leigh is a splendid alternative.
IIRC we've had this one out on these boards before. Suffice it to say that many of us think that as this was the German anthem before the Nazi period and has been since then, and it was written by that most untotalitarian of composers Haydn, it's not a tainted tune.
I inadvertently offended some German friends my claiming that "Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles" (Germany above everyone else) was the start of their national anthem. I didn't know that they ditched that verse after WW2, but kept the tune.
ETA: However, purely as a tune, I do prefer Abbots Leigh.
[ 05. September 2013, 14:57: Message edited by: Robert Armin ]
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
That's the hymn I mean by "Daily daily".
It's a shame NEH and old EH omit the verse from "Ye who own"
For the King of men and angels
Chose her out of all he made,
And in robes of grace and glory
Her humility arrayed;
With the radiant sun he clothed her,
At her feet the moon he laid.
Hail Mary, hail Mary, hail Mary full of grace.
One mo' time...
Amen. Because I've always been used to EH, I didn't know that verse, despite the many 'extreme' Anglo-catholic places I've worshipped in.
So scriptural too - Rev. 12
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
It's in The English Catholic Hymn Book, aka the little blue book.
Here's another verse:
So of her that loved and suffered
Was our better Samuel born;
So did Sion's Virgin Daughter
Laugh Assyria' might to scorn;
So did Esther, daring all things,
Lift again the captives' horn.
Hail Mary...
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
It's in The English Catholic Hymn Book, aka the little blue book.
Here's another verse:
So of her that loved and suffered
Was our better Samuel born;
So did Sion's Virgin Daughter
Laugh Assyria' might to scorn;
So did Esther, daring all things,
Lift again the captives' horn.
Hail Mary...
Now that is somewhat 'heavy'.
We love our Lady as our mum, without too much theology!
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Leo
I can't sing (or play for)Ye who own the faith without singing under my breath O that I had wings of angels ...
Carys
The reason the metre is given as 8787D in Mayhew books is because that IS the metre - the tune is called Daily, daily because it was written for a Sabine Baring-Gould hymn of that name, the full chorus of which runs:
O, that I had wings of angels
Here to spread and heavenward fly;
I would seek the gates of Sion,
Far beyond the starry sky!
When the tune is used for Ye who own the faith the original rhythm of the last four lines is adapted so that
dotted quaver-semiquaver-crochet-crochet-dotted quaver-semiquaver-crochet-crochet
becomes
crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet
so 8 syllables become 6 by 'losing' the dotted rhythm.
Not sure about the sequence of events you suggest. The EH says the tune comes from 'a French Paroissien'. No indication of date, but it sounds like a number of other pieces (e.g. Tantum ergo (Grafton), St Venantius, Regnator orbis et al.) which are found in collections published in France in the late c 17th. It seems more likely therefore that it pre-dates Baring-Gould, and has perhaps come to be known as 'Daily Daily' because of its use for those words.
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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bib
Shipmate
# 13074
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Posted
Does it really matter what tune is used provided it is one that the congregation is familiar with and likes. I can understand how uncomfortable some feel at singing a different tune from that they are used to, but it doesn't take much effort to adjust. There are some tunes that are musically barren and it is ok at times to introduce and alternative, but democracy should probably rule in the end.
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"My Lord, my Life, my Way, my End, accept the praise I bring"
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Graham J
Apprentice
# 505
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Posted
(Apologies if it's already been mentioned. )
I'd like to put in a vote for Ilkley moor as a melody for While shepherds.
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GJ
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ST
Shipmate
# 14600
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graham J:
(Apologies if it's already been mentioned. )
I'd like to put in a vote for Ilkley moor as a melody for While shepherds.
Sorry, but it has to be Lyngham - although I did get fed up with it while in Cornwall
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Formerly nowsouthwest - but moved!
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Dal Segno
al Fine
# 14673
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Posted
On Sunday we are playing "O Jesus I have promised" to the tune Wolvercote, which I always think of as the wrong tune. While trying to find the "right tune" (it's none of the five I've found so far), I wondered if I could subvert the musicians to agree to play it to the Muppet Show Theme Tune. I'm sure the congregation will never look at the hymn the same way for ever afterwards ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Yet ever and anon a trumpet sounds
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clavus:
'O Little Town of Bethlehem' is sung to St Louis in the USA but to Forest Green in England. St Louis was written for it and suits the mood better; Forest Green is too jaunty.
Actually, I find St Louis to be a cheesy, tacky barbershop triviality. The sentimental chromaticism of that slide from I to i diminished in the first line is nauseating.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Clavus:
'O Little Town of Bethlehem' is sung to St Louis in the USA but to Forest Green in England. St Louis was written for it and suits the mood better; Forest Green is too jaunty.
Actually, I find St Louis to be a cheesy, tacky barbershop triviality. The sentimental chromaticism of that slide from I to i diminished in the first line is nauseating.
I complete agree about the 'barbershop-ism' of St Louis! I once worked for a church where the Christmas Eve custom (invariable) was to alternate between the two tunes stanza by stanza. It didn't seem odd then, it probably would today. (In the Hymnal 1940 the two tunes were in the same key and on facing pages, which made the process almost too simple.)
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You can't retire from a calling.
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Whispers ... There is always the Walford Davies tune "Christmas Carol", you know ...
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Whispers ... There is always the Walford Davies tune "Christmas Carol", you know ...
And I think it came out of copyright at the end of 2012.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Morlader
Shipmate
# 16040
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Posted
HWD died 11 March 1941, so his works came out of copyright 31 Dec 2011, 70 years on. Just saying.
I think his setting (given for example in one of the Carols for Choirs books, (2 I think)) is the best, though not so easy for congregations.
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.. to utmost west.
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
When the tune is used for Ye who own the faith the original rhythm of the last four lines is adapted so that
dotted quaver-semiquaver-crochet-crochet-dotted quaver-semiquaver-crochet-crochet
becomes
crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet-crochet
so 8 syllables become 6 by 'losing' the dotted rhythm. [/QB]
Interesting. That makes sense, seeing as that's the rhythm in the other lines, but my brain is now programmed with that version! Interestingly where I'm planning to go tomorrow is having it but to the first tune in NEH, which I suspect will be just wrong to me. At least they've warned me by specifying the tune on the pew leaflet. I'm guessing it's out of loyalty to Mr Dearmer, or at least, because they've been singing it to that tune since his day and so that is the right tune to them.
Carys
[Edited to add the at lew st]
[ 07. September 2013, 21:16: Message edited by: Carys ]
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
A colleague who plays at a church with strong naval connections was asked if there wasn't something in addition to Eternal Father, strong to save for Sea Sunday.
After much searching they came up O Lord, be with us when we sail upon the lonely deep (!) but it was decided (a) some of the verses were just too dreadful and (b) it needed pepping-up.
They now sing 3 eight line verses to Materna - commonly used for America the beautiful .
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Quinquireme
Shipmate
# 17384
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Posted
If I'm booking a deputy, I provide a hymn list and always specify which tune , if there is a choice. Seems to make sense if only to keep the congregation happy.
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Quinquireme
Shipmate
# 17384
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Graham J:
(Apologies if it's already been mentioned. )
I'd like to put in a vote for Ilkley moor as a melody for While shepherds.
I think it was actually the original tune anyway
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Metapelagius
Shipmate
# 9453
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Quinquireme:
quote:
Originally posted by Graham J:
(Apologies if it's already been mentioned. )
I'd like to put in a vote for Ilkley moor as a melody for While shepherds.
I think it was actually the original tune anyway
No, it can't be. The tune 'Cranbrook' was written by Thomas Clark of Canterbury (1775 - 1859) for Doddridge's Grace, 'tis a charming sound. An informative article about Clark may be found here.
While humble shepherds is first found in the 'Supplement to the New Version' published in 1708. The 'New Version' is the PSALMS OF DAVID; Fitted to the TUNES USED IN CHURCHES
by N. BRADY, D.D and N. TATE, Esq., 1696. I have no idea what tune was given for it there, but it not impossible that it could have been Winchester, which certainly would have been one of the 'tunes used in churches'.
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Rec a archaw e nim naccer.
y rof a duv. dagnouet.
Am bo forth. y porth riet.
Crist ny buv e trist yth orsset.
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
Well, this morning someone got their revenge on me. Seeing as half of central Cardiff was closed off for some people going for a jog, I went to a service entitled "Family Worship with Holy Communion" — very much something I wouldn't normally attend. So you can imagine my relief when the projectionist found "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross", followed by bemusement when the tune wasn't Rockingham or Morte Christi, but some modern thing. Is this an idiosyncrasy, or am I just too much out of the loop?
[deleted duplicate post]
[ 08. September 2013, 20:39: Message edited by: seasick ]
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Don't tell me that was at St.John the Baptist?
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
You mean this one. It feels very similar to the this version of Amazing Grace by the same composer.
Let me be clear. The tune to the historic hymn has some resemblance to the hymn tune. The Amazing Grace one is clear to me. The "When I survey" is more difficult, but I felt I knew it although it was not quite the tune above.
The chorus is actually do not fit, I mean they are as bad as the last verse of Amazing Grace. It is a complete clunk as you change sound to the modern praise band. However in a praise band type church I think I can see why that might popularise the hymn.
Oh one gripe, why did they had to change wonderous to wonderful in the chorus.
Jengie
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"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
I said up thread that I’ ve never sung “O for a thousand tongues to sing” to Lyngham. Well I have now and I loved it. It was the introit to Parish Mass at Walsingham yesterday.
Then we sang “All hail the power of Jesus’ name” to Diadem as we processed round the shrine grounds in the afternoon with the Blessed Sacrament.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Metapelagius:
[QUOTE]No, it can't be. The tune 'Cranbrook' was written by Thomas Clark of Canterbury (1775 - 1859) for Doddridge's Grace, 'tis a charming sound. An informative article about Clark may be found here.
While humble shepherds is first found in the 'Supplement to the New Version' published in 1708. The 'New Version' is the PSALMS OF DAVID; Fitted to the TUNES USED IN CHURCHES
by N. BRADY, D.D and N. TATE, Esq., 1696. I have no idea what tune was given for it there, but it not impossible that it could have been Winchester, which certainly would have been one of the 'tunes used in churches'.
It wouldn't have had an 'original tune'. There were a few psalms that had their own associated tunes, but the idea that there was a right tune for each hymn didn't really develop until the mid nineteenth century. Tate and Brady wrote the words. It was up to each community to decide what tune it wanted to sing them to.
'While Shepherds Watched' is Common Metre. So are 'Grace 'tis a charming sound' and Amazing Grace. Winchester Old was a widely known Common Metre tune which the compilers of the first edition of Hymns Ancient & Modern printed with 'While Shepherds watched' because they disapproved of the more florid tunes like Lyngham and Cranbrook which what they scorned as yokel bands were wont to provide.
'When I survey the wondrous cross' is Long Metre. The tune I would traditionally associate with it is Rockingham, which is also, for me, the tune that goes with 'My God and is thy table spread'.
I've never heard the tune Jengie links to, but to me, it is uninspiring and unmemorable. We sometimes sing 'When I survey' to Waly Waly, which IMHO works very well.
Amazing Grace with the chorus about the chains, is using the usual tune for the verses, but wandering a bit off key and off rhythm. It's only the chorus that is a different tune.
Venbede, did your visit happen to coincide with a parish pilgrimage from one of the big Anglo-Catholic churches in Yorkshire?
[ 09. September 2013, 09:30: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Don't tell me that was at St.John the Baptist?
No, I meant to imply that I stayed out in the wilds of the country.
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
You mean this one.
Thanks, Jengie, that's the one.
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
I've never heard the tune Jengie links to, but to me, it is uninspiring and unmemorable. We sometimes sing 'When I survey' to Waly Waly, which IMHO works very well.
Yes, uninspiring and unmemorable pretty much was my opinion of it too; but people seemed to know and like it, so what can I say? (And it seemed a little odd to me to be singing that hymn other than on Good Friday in any event...)
Interesting idea to sing it to Waly Waly — I quite like it.
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
Posts: 446 | From: Llantrisant | Registered: Feb 2012
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
What is idiosyncratic?
The old English Hymnal set Love Divine to Fairest Isle - damned fine tune, weird to be used for a hymn, and possibly the most congregation unfriendly ever.
And might that be another (musical) tangent? The use of the Londonderry Air for hymns is, at first glance, reasonable - it is, after all, a tune which most congregations will know; but the range is huge and, IME, defeats 99.9% of all congregation members, so the result is frustrating for organist and singers.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
What is idiosyncratic?
The old English Hymnal set Love Divine to Fairest Isle - damned fine tune, weird to be used for a hymn, and possibly the most congregation unfriendly ever.
And might that be another (musical) tangent? The use of the Londonderry Air for hymns is, at first glance, reasonable - it is, after all, a tune which most congregations will know; but the range is huge and, IME, defeats 99.9% of all congregation members, so the result is frustrating for organist and singers.
We plough the fields has the same problem. Indeed, it's only in recent years that a low Ab hasn't been the lowest note I can produce in even ideal circumstances, but any suggestion of putting it any higher causes tears of pain from the more alto/bassy types.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Gill H
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# 68
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Posted
When I Survey has loads of tunes - what about the Welsh choir favourite Morte Christe? Sentimental, sure, but when the organ kicks in before the last verse, it makes me want to stand up and cheer.
Most churches who would use the Chris Tomlin version are probably happy to sing When I Survey all year round. Mine certainly is (although we don't actually sing that version).
I find it a bit of a drone, so was imagining it done plainchant style!
We do sing Amazing Grace with the Chris Tomlin addition sometimes. The change of timing irks me a little, but the chorus seems to work well, and for me it breathes new life into a hymn we can sometimes take for granted.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
What is idiosyncratic?
The old English Hymnal set Love Divine to Fairest Isle - damned fine tune, weird to be used for a hymn, and possibly the most congregation unfriendly ever.
And might that be another (musical) tangent? The use of the Londonderry Air for hymns is, at first glance, reasonable - it is, after all, a tune which most congregations will know; but the range is huge and, IME, defeats 99.9% of all congregation members, so the result is frustrating for organist and singers.
We plough the fields has the same problem. Indeed, it's only in recent years that a low Ab hasn't been the lowest note I can produce in even ideal circumstances, but any suggestion of putting it any higher causes tears of pain from the more alto/bassy types.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
A colleague who plays at a church with strong naval connections was asked if there wasn't something in addition to Eternal Father, strong to save for Sea Sunday.
After much searching they came up O Lord, be with us when we sail upon the lonely deep (!) but it was decided (a) some of the verses were just too dreadful and (b) it needed pepping-up.
They now sing 3 eight line verses to Materna - commonly used for America the beautiful .
Tangentially. My immediate thought of a possible hymn was I feel the winds of God today to Kingsfold
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
When I Survey has loads of tunes - what about the Welsh choir favourite Morte Christe? Sentimental, sure, but when the organ kicks in before the last verse, it makes me want to stand up and cheer.
Totally the best tune for that hymn IMO. But there is the element of feeling as if one needs to affix a leek to one's lapel to sing it...
quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
Most churches who would use the Chris Tomlin version are probably happy to sing When I Survey all year round. Mine certainly is (although we don't actually sing that version).
<tangent>Funny how they tend to be the same people who object to the Adoration of the Cross on Good Friday (even when rebranded as the Proclamation CW-style).</tangent>
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The old English Hymnal set Love Divine to Fairest Isle - damned fine tune, weird to be used for a hymn, and possibly the most congregation unfriendly ever.
My copy has MORIAH. Is FAIREST ISLE a first edition thing?
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
We plough the fields has the same problem. Indeed, it's only in recent years that a low Ab hasn't been the lowest note I can produce in even ideal circumstances, but any suggestion of putting it any higher causes tears of pain from the more alto/bassy types.
I start running into difficulties at Bb. Notes below there simply don't exist as far as I'm concerned. When someone's pitched a hymn in a particularly dopey key, I have been known to sing it an octave up, proper Alto style.
(And I've never much liked London Backsides as a tune anyway. Way too slushily sentimental. Needs gratuitous glissandi.)
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
Posts: 446 | From: Llantrisant | Registered: Feb 2012
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Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
A colleague who plays at a church with strong naval connections was asked if there wasn't something in addition to Eternal Father, strong to save for Sea Sunday.
After much searching they came up O Lord, be with us when we sail upon the lonely deep (!) but it was decided (a) some of the verses were just too dreadful and (b) it needed pepping-up.
They now sing 3 eight line verses to Materna - commonly used for America the beautiful .
What about "Will your anchor hold"?
Posts: 133 | From: England | Registered: Aug 2013
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Gwalchmai
Shipmate
# 17802
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pererin:
Totally the best tune for that hymn IMO. But there is the element of feeling as if one needs to affix a leek to one's lapel to sing it...
Most of the best hymn tunes require leek on the lapel - including my log-in name!
Posts: 133 | From: England | Registered: Aug 2013
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