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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: MW 2609: St Bartholomew's, Toronto
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
I want to thank Rorate for taking the time to visit St Bart's, which I belonged to when living in Toronto and continue to be associated with when I visit. My own first visit (I can't really believe it's been five years!) was as a mystery worshipper, and I fell so in love with the place that I stayed. It's just a shame Rorate couldn't have visited a few weeks earlier, when the Archbishop came to install the new vicar during a splendid Solemn Evensong & Benediction.
The review sounds pretty true to life (even the trigger-happy gradual is the kind of mishap we would have), although I wasn't there on the Sunday in question. I'm a little intrigued by the reviewer's professed fondness for prayer book worship and Anglo-Catholic worship - but not in combination. In Canada, that's a very common combination, or at least the re-ordered BCP rite in the BAS (pioneered at St Mary Mag's).
Regent Park is going through a transitional time, and St Bart's with it. National newspapers have profiled the parish a couple of times over the last few years. The current arrangement of operating as a chapel within the cathedral parish shows considerable promise and I look forward to seeing what having a full-time priest in residence will do.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Both reports are very well done! Reading yours again makes me wonder when we'll see more from you, LQ.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
As for whether the biretta should have been removed for the procession, I'd say that's precisely when it would be worn. Indeed, in places where it's worn only minimally (like ours), it's worn for getting in and going out, and in most solemn processions. It would be off to preach the sermon, IIRC.
And "hats off when praying," as a general rule. So when the sacred ministers arrive in the parish hall, birettas come off before Father says the post-Mass prayers.
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
/slight tangent alert/
At our Patronal Festival Mass last Sunday, many of us were highly diverted by the number of times birettas were doffed by Deacon and Sub-Deacon during the Bishop's homily! The good Bishop was, as I think is mentioned in Ritual Notes, given to mentioning the name of Jesus perhaps a little too frequently........(though, in all fairness, it was an excellent and challenging homily nevertheless!).
/end of tangent/
BTW, I'm old enough to wish that we, in this Diocese, had a parish which combined the Prayer Book with A-C style worship on a regular basis.....
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
At our Patronal Festival Mass last Sunday, many of us were highly diverted by the number of times birettas were doffed by Deacon and Sub-Deacon during the Bishop's homily! The good Bishop was, as I think is mentioned in Ritual Notes, given to mentioning the name of Jesus perhaps a little too frequently........(though, in all fairness, it was an excellent and challenging homily nevertheless!).
Kind preachers say the Holy Name only once or twice per sermon and otherwise say "Our Lord."
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Both reports are very well done! Reading yours again makes me wonder when we'll see more from you, LQ.
Thank you. I have some notes from a jubilee service last year I'd like to spin into a report if it wouldn't be too stale.
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
quote:
the candles were lit from the wrong side first
There's a wrong side to light candles?
I want to say the Gospel-side candle never burns alone, but I could have that turned round.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Try
Shipmate
# 4951
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Posted
"The Gospel candle never burns alone" is the rule in my parish, and it is firmly enforced by the altar guild.
I suspect that God does not care.
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“I’m so glad to be a translator in the 20th century. They only burn Bibles now, not the translators!” - the Rev. Dr. Bruce M. Metzger
Posts: 852 | From: Beautiful Ohio, in dreams again I see... | Registered: Sep 2003
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
At our Patronal Festival Mass last Sunday, many of us were highly diverted by the number of times birettas were doffed by Deacon and Sub-Deacon during the Bishop's homily! The good Bishop was, as I think is mentioned in Ritual Notes, given to mentioning the name of Jesus perhaps a little too frequently........(though, in all fairness, it was an excellent and challenging homily nevertheless!).
Kind preachers say the Holy Name only once or twice per sermon and otherwise say "Our Lord."
The poor NRSV gets a good kicking from folk concerned about the way its gender-nonspecific language mangles the meaning of the text.
While they've got it down on the ground, I put in my shod foot for interpolating "Jesus" (e.g., "Jesus said") all over the place into the text when there's only a verb to be found. This makes congregations who bow at the name of Jesus (♪♪♩♩♩♩♪♪♪♪♩) unfortunate to use the NRSV look like bobble heads because the translators assume folk are too stupid to know an unqualified he can only mean Our Lord.
Will someone please now come along and tell me this uncharitable cavailing means I completely miss the point of the sweet gospel message?
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif)
You're completely missing the point of the Gospel Message.
Or, "Presby, Presby, he'll no' bend, sittin' there perched on Man's Chief End." ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
I want to say the Gospel-side candle never burns alone, but I could have that turned round.
You're right. Light the Epistle side (right-hand) candle first, then the Gospel side (left-hand) one. In our church, this doesn't flip the other way round for a freestanding altar. No matter which altar we're using, we're facing east, and we "go right" first. Extinguishing goes the other way, so "go left" first with the snuffer.
When two of us light the six candles for High Mass, we light the pair closest to the center (tabernacle and altar cross) first and work our way out (and down, as it happens). Extinguishing starts with the outermost candles and works in and up.
[ 27. October 2013, 21:46: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Yup, that's what I learned as a baby acolyte as well...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Or, "Presby, Presby, he'll no' bend, sittin' there perched on Man's Chief End."
I like it.
But, it doesn't scan, does it? How about this: "Presby, Presby he'll no' bend / perchèd there on Man's Chief End."
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I've always heard it quoted as "Presby, Presby dinna bend, sit thee doon on man's chief end."
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
Posts: 5769 | From: A world of my own | Registered: May 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
And I always heard:
Piskie, Piskie, always bend, doon on yer knees and up again.
Presbie, Presbie, dinna bend, but only sit on Man's Chief End.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
As an afterthought, if Rorate is partial to Anglo-Catholic worship according to the BAS, there are a few parishes in Toronto off the top of my head that fit the bill. St Matthias Bellwoods is the "mother church" of ritualism in the diocese - and more directly of the "suburban mission" which became the Church of St Mary Magdalene. St Martin-in-the-Fields offers full Catholic privileges in a very Anglican (and surprisingly picturesque so close to the city centre) setting. And I have a particular affinity to St Stephen-in-the-Fields, the Kensington Market parish, where the priest-in-charge is a former Russian Orthodox laywoman, and which has a solid grassroots base to make Kenneth Leech proud.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Just to report back from yesterday's advisory board meeting, the vicar was very pleased that the choir and greeters got top marks even if his own preaching was found wanting!
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Wilfried
Shipmate
# 12277
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
I want to say the Gospel-side candle never burns alone, but I could have that turned round.
You're right. Light the Epistle side (right-hand) candle first, then the Gospel side (left-hand) one. In our church, this doesn't flip the other way round for a freestanding altar. No matter which altar we're using, we're facing east, and we "go right" first. Extinguishing goes the other way, so "go left" first with the snuffer.
When two of us light the six candles for High Mass, we light the pair closest to the center (tabernacle and altar cross) first and work our way out (and down, as it happens). Extinguishing starts with the outermost candles and works in and up.
Our pulpit is on the right side, where the Gospel is read, so which is the Gospel side? Two acolytes light the two altar candles simultaneously, so the question has never come up. At the weeknight Eucharist in the chapel, the Gospel is read from a lectern in the center opposite the altar. Which is the Gospel side?
Posts: 429 | From: Lefty on the Right Coast | Registered: Jan 2007
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
For historic reasons , the Gospel side is always to the left. Possibly because that's where the heathen barbarians (viz, us) used to live...
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
For historic reasons , the Gospel side is always to the left. Possibly because that's where the heathen barbarians (viz, us) used to live...
This what I was told when catechized (was it nearly a half-century ago?) by Archdeacon Bradley. I have a vague memory that it had to do with Saint Willibrord but can find nothing to substantiate this.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
For historic reasons , the Gospel side is always to the left. Possibly because that's where the heathen barbarians (viz, us) used to live...
Ah, but if the presider is standing behind the altar and facing the people, then right is the new left.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Patrick
Shipmate
# 305
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Posted
True story: then there was the faithful elderly woman, always seated just before the pulpit at St. Mary the Virgin, NYC, who always bowed at the Sacred Name, and, if standing, did a curtsy. One feast day the erudite academic preacher several times in the course of the sermon said "exegesis", leading to multiple bows on the part of that worshiper. .
Posts: 109 | From: Fordham University, Bronx, N.Y. U.S.A. | Registered: May 2001
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Patrick:
True story: then there was the faithful elderly woman, always seated just before the pulpit at St. Mary the Virgin, NYC, who always bowed at the Sacred Name, and, if standing, did a curtsy. One feast day the erudite academic preacher several times in the course of the sermon said "exegesis", leading to multiple bows on the part of that worshiper. .
She could have been nodding off. Sounds like a dull sermon.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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