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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Ceremonial Manuals
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
I need a ceremonial manual that is a little higher up the candle than A Priests Handbook (Michno) but not quite as complicated as Ritual Notes. I use the 1979 BCP and rarely do all the elaborate ritual described in Ritual Notes. On the other hand, I do more than prescribed in A Priest's Handbook. For instance, I'm trying to figure out how to do a Commendation with a full compliment of servers but in a worship space smaller than that imagined by Ritual Notes. Best I can do is read both sources and adapt as best I can. Anybody know of a middle ground between the two? I think I would have found it by now but you never know.
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Beeswax Altar:
I need a ceremonial manual that is a little higher up the candle than A Priests Handbook (Michno) but not quite as complicated as Ritual Notes. I use the 1979 BCP and rarely do all the elaborate ritual described in Ritual Notes. On the other hand, I do more than prescribed in A Priest's Handbook. For instance, I'm trying to figure out how to do a Commendation with a full compliment of servers but in a worship space smaller than that imagined by Ritual Notes. Best I can do is read both sources and adapt as best I can. Anybody know of a middle ground between the two? I think I would have found it by now but you never know.
You might want to have a look at the Customary of the Church of the Advent, Boston. I see the Commendation ceremonial at the end of the All Souls Solemn Requiem page.
[ 20. November 2013, 16:03: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
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Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras
Shipmate
# 11274
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Posted
The on-line Customary on Church of the Advent, Boston, website also has very good instructions for servers/acolytes, well worth adopting in other parishes, especially the general guidelines section.
Posts: 7328 | From: Delaware | Registered: Apr 2006
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lietuvos Sv. Kazimieras:
The on-line Customary on Church of the Advent, Boston, website also has very good instructions for servers/acolytes, well worth adopting in other parishes, especially the general guidelines section.
That's very true actually, good advice - although I recall some parts are inevitably quite specific for their own building.
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Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
I highly suggest giving this a look (PDF warning): Elements of Offerings by Fr. John-Julian, OJN. It might be helpful. Or not. Whatevs.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I can concur with Elements of Offering, although the author thinks it's really spiffy to put the stole on top of the chasuble. I, on the other hand, think it looks rather ridiculous. But other than that, I've found it helpful.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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FCB
Hillbilly Thomist
# 1495
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Posted
I like this gem from Elements of Offering: quote:
Today, if there is going to be a kiss, it makes good sense for the Deacon to kiss the book. Since the ordination of women deacons, however, lipstick marks on the Gospel page can become a problem. We solve that by having the Deacon close the Gospel book immediately after proclaiming the Gospel, and then kiss the cover.
How about asking them not to wear lipstick!
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Agent of the Inquisition since 1982.
Posts: 2928 | From: that city in "The Wire" | Registered: Oct 2001
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Spiffy
Ship's WonderSheep
# 5267
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
I like this gem from Elements of Offering: quote:
Today, if there is going to be a kiss, it makes good sense for the Deacon to kiss the book. Since the ordination of women deacons, however, lipstick marks on the Gospel page can become a problem. We solve that by having the Deacon close the Gospel book immediately after proclaiming the Gospel, and then kiss the cover.
How about asking them not to wear lipstick!
Because then the female deacon will be told they aren't feminine enough and should prolly go put some makeup on.
I highly suggest the Rev. PeaceBang's Beauty Tips for Ministers for more on how society's expectations of women impact those in Holy Orders.
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Looking for a simple solution to all life's problems? We are proud to present obstinate denial. Accept no substitute. Accept nothing.
--Night Vale Radio Twitter Account
Posts: 10281 | From: Beervana | Registered: Dec 2003
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by FCB:
I like this gem from Elements of Offering: quote:
Today, if there is going to be a kiss, it makes good sense for the Deacon to kiss the book. Since the ordination of women deacons, however, lipstick marks on the Gospel page can become a problem. We solve that by having the Deacon close the Gospel book immediately after proclaiming the Gospel, and then kiss the cover.
How about asking them not to wear lipstick!
I thought the celebrant normally kissed the book, whether or not the Gospel was proclaimed by a deacon. But I suppose the celebrant could be wearing lipstick as well, so there still might be a problem.
Chalk me up as one who would prefer no lipstick and that the beginning of the Gospel be kissed. And in any case, a ritual osculation isn't supposed to be a big wet smooch--just touching the lips to the object will do.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
The gospel reader kisses the book unless the celebrant is a bishop, in which case the book is brought over to him to be kissed. The people should remain standing till this happens. I've never known a congregation uniformly get this right (even when they were all professed religious and/or seminarians!).
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
Hart, in your rite (OF) that's indeed true. But in the EF and other older rites, the Gospel is kissed by the celebrant, whether or not he is the one who proclaimed it.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Elements of Offering is interesting. Arnold Klukas, who wrote the introduction for the book, is the former liturgics professor at Nashotah House. I believe the ceremonial described in the book is the way things were done at Nashotah while he was there. The ceremonial described takes traditional Anglo-Catholic ritual, simplifies it, removes all the elements offensive to proponents of liturgical renewal, and then adapts what's left to Rite II.
I wonder how many priests do liturgy this way. I don't have the opportunity to see recent Nashotah grads celebrate the Eucharist all that often. The ones I've seen are more into old school Anglo-Catholic ceremonial.
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
In the EF and other older rites, the Gospel is kissed by the celebrant, whether or not he is the one who proclaimed it.
Unless, according to the Missale Romanum, mass is celebrated in the presence of the Pope, a papal legate, a cardinal, an archbishop, or the diocesan bishop, in which case the book is brought to said personage to be kissed.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Fr Palmer's Readiness & Decency, originally published by the Cowley press at Bracebridge, is the usual ceremonial companion to the Canadian BCP. The old Bracebridge imprints have been hard to find of late: their copyrights passed to the Anglican Catholic Church of Canada (in whose communion Palmer finished his life), which has suspended its publishing arm since the turmoil of Anglicanorum coetibus.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
The gospel reader kisses the book unless the celebrant is a bishop, in which case the book is brought over to him to be kissed. The people should remain standing till this happens. I've never known a congregation uniformly get this right (even when they were all professed religious and/or seminarians!).
I find that surprising - most of the congregations I know wouldn't dream of sitting before the prayer at the beginning of the sermon.
Posts: 403 | Registered: Feb 2012
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
Hart, in your rite (OF) that's indeed true. But in the EF and other older rites, the Gospel is kissed by the celebrant, whether or not he is the one who proclaimed it.
Indeed, when I serve as a subdeacon, carrying the Gospel book back to the sanctuary for the celebrant to kiss is one of my more dramatic tasks. Don't take that away from me! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 3823 | Registered: May 2004
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Adam.
Like as the
# 4991
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
I find that surprising - most of the congregations I know wouldn't dream of sitting before the prayer at the beginning of the sermon.
Another "Tiber difference" if you will! We're discouraged from inserting a prayer between the proclamation of the Gospel and the preaching of the homily (except for the private per evangelica dicta, deleantur nostra delicta*).
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* Random tidbit, this is the only part of Mass I always do in Latin. It's such a beautifully composed Latin sentence and the English translation, while accurate enough to the meaning, sounds flat in comparison.
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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
Preaching blog
Posts: 8164 | From: Notre Dame, IN | Registered: Sep 2003
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Basilica
Shipmate
# 16965
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
quote:
Originally posted by Basilica:
I find that surprising - most of the congregations I know wouldn't dream of sitting before the prayer at the beginning of the sermon.
Another "Tiber difference" if you will! We're discouraged from inserting a prayer between the proclamation of the Gospel and the preaching of the homily (except for the private per evangelica dicta, deleantur nostra delicta*).
Something I did know, but had momentarily forgotten! (Though in this case, the prayer serves a useful function!)
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
We're discouraged from inserting a prayer between the proclamation of the Gospel and the preaching of the homily (except for the private per evangelica dicta, deleantur nostra delicta*). . . . It's such a beautifully composed Latin sentence and the English translation, while accurate enough to the meaning, sounds flat in comparison.
Yes, and it rhymes too. But I've always liked the translation "By the words of the Holy Gospel may our sins be blotted out."
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Trisagion
Shipmate
# 5235
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
* Random tidbit, this is the only part of Mass I always do in Latin. It's such a beautifully composed Latin sentence and the English translation, while accurate enough to the meaning, sounds flat in comparison.
I, too, always say it in Latin, as I do the Domine non sum dignus. I've no idea why but it always seems to come out that way.
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ceterum autem censeo tabula delenda esse
Posts: 3923 | Registered: Nov 2003
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Clotilde
Shipmate
# 17600
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Posted
I think the idea of following slavishly a ceremonial book has gone in recent years and so they have become resource books.
Fortescue and O'Connell (see link below) and the Parsons Handbook were once, and to some still are, great stand bys to help.
It seems we are living in such chasnging times liturgically that what is done one year is not always done the next! (Except in a few select places).
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A witness of female resistance
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Trisagion:
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
* Random tidbit, this is the only part of Mass I always do in Latin. It's such a beautifully composed Latin sentence and the English translation, while accurate enough to the meaning, sounds flat in comparison.
I, too, always say it in Latin
Odd coincidence...Cardinal George of Chicago says Per evangelica dicta in Latin, too.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Clotilde
Shipmate
# 17600
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Hart:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Basilica:
[qb] I find that surprising - most of the congregations I know wouldn't dream of sitting before the prayer at the beginning of the sermon.
Another "Tiber difference" if you will! We're discouraged from inserting a prayer between the proclamation of the Gospel and the preaching of the homily (except for the private per evangelica dicta, deleantur nostra delicta*).
Interesting. I hadn't appreciated that difference. Does that include 'In the name of the Father....' as well.
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A witness of female resistance
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Yes, IME the whole business of liturgifying the beginning and end of the homily - standing to observe the return of a Gospel procession to organ improv, the preacher mounting a pulpit, sipping water, and invoking the Trinity (or channeling Boney M) - was one of the more obvious culture shocks after swimming the Tiber (along with the five-point sign of the cross, communion in both kinds, the pronunciation of Amen, the length of the Mass, and a weekly reception following). I suppose it stems from the Anglican desire to emphasise the homily as part of the liturgy, but it can be excessive I find. RC homilies are a little more like the halftime show: Everyone says "Praise to you, Lord Jesus Christ" and sits down.
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
Channeling Boney M?
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
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Posted
Psalm 19:14 seems to be a stock favourite, with the second pronoun for some reason invariably pluralized ("all our hearts").
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
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sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
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Posted
Although it may not quite rise to the level of a "ceremonial manual," there is much good sense in Aidan Kavanaugh's "Elements of Rite: A Handbook of Liturgical Style" (1982). Although Kavanaugh is Catholic, much of what he has to say would apply to any liturgical denomination.
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
Posts: 386 | From: Between two big lakes | Registered: Apr 2008
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