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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Tackling Poverty
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I don't think the tories support them, they just know they're popular so daren't oppose them.
I find it interesting that deano admits that his politics aren't remotely rational - just petty revenge on people who were mean to him at school. Reminds me of those atheists who react against a conservative Christian upbringing by slavishly following Dawkins & co.
... and what analysis would you make of those upthread who said they lived in Tory shires and were bullied or went to private schools and were bullied, and who are now avowed socialists?
Surely you would want to extend your theorem to those?
I mean, why wouldn't you? Oh, yes... they are socialists.
It's your hypothesis (it's not a theorem unless it is proven), not mine. You only speak for yourself. I've no idea what the politics were/are of the people who bullied me at school (could have been any of the three main parties, but most likely lib dem), I don't really see how it's a relevant consideration.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
In a period of globalisation and the influence of the media, Media studies is need more than ever unless you want people to be manipulated.
Can you support this assertion that people are manipulated less because media studies graduates exist? My baseline assumption would be that the existence of media studies graduates makes no difference at all to the likelihood of the average person being manipulated by skewed information from whatever source.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
No evidence - any more than you have to the contrary. I don't know how someone would go about empirical research on this - just like the assumption that learning history is important - otherwise you are destined to repeat it.
The nearest example I can think of is that the USA doesn't teach religious Education and it seems to have swathes of fundamentalists; whereas the UK has much more critical thinking about religion and less fundamentalist.
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Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The nearest example I can think of is that the USA doesn't teach religious Education and it seems to have swathes of fundamentalists; whereas the UK has much more critical thinking about religion and less fundamentalist.
The US population also includes a far higher percentage of regular churchgoers than the UK.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
The answer to bad teachers is obvious: pay teachers more. That will attract those "clever" and "hard-working" people into the profession.
It seems that there is an underlying assumption that "clever, hard-working" people have to be paid lots of money to apply their cleverness and work ethic; otherwise, they'll just slack off and we won't have enough professionals to run our society. At the other end of the scale, dumb, lazy people can be expected do simple jobs incompetently for little money. These folks, apparently, can only be motivated by fear of losing of what little income they have.
And speaking of "clever" and "hard-working", a student at my institution of higher learning had an article published in the student newspaper complaining about having to write a cover letter to apply for a minimum wage job. Conversely, the cashier at the food establishment to which this student was applying told me last week that she enjoyed her holidays, but after a few days, she really wanted to get back to work.
Going back a bit, it seems that every discussion about poverty ends up focusing on how important it is to keep rich people happy. As Jesus said, "The poor will always be with you, and boy, are they a fucking pain in the ass, always asking for shit and trying to make you feel guilty for being successful. Am I right?"
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
The answer to bad teachers is obvious: pay teachers more.
I would have thought the obvious answer to bad teachers is to sack them? Although, given the ridiculously low number of teachers who have been sacked over the years, it's a point that eluded a lot of people.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
The answer to bad teachers is obvious: pay teachers more.
I would have thought the obvious answer to bad teachers is to sack them? Although, given the ridiculously low number of teachers who have been sacked over the years, it's a point that eluded a lot of people.
Generally if you're teaching badly you will resign before you get sacked - being in a teaching job when you can't cope with it isn't fun. The problem with trying to sack bad teachers is that it's often difficult to tell who is a bad teacher. I've heard too many stories of bullying management using capability proceedings to force out anyone whose face doesn't fit, regardless of competence, to have any trust in a system that makes dismissing teachers easier.
There's also a false dichotomy between good and bad teachers. A lot depends on circumstance. A good teacher in a school with a capable intake, who can teach up to Further Maths A-Level and coach the Cambridge STEP might get eaten alive if they tried to pick up set 10 year 11 on a Friday afternoon in a comp in Kent. And the teacher who can have that set 10 eating out of their hand, quiet, attentive and learning, might struggle to keep up with the high fliers in the first school. Neither of them are bad teachers, but they'd certainly look like it in the wrong setting. When the likes of Ofsted talk about X thousands bad teachers, they mean that a certain percentage of the lessons they've observed have been, in their often bizarre judgement, inadequate. Put those teachers in a different situation and you see a different result.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican't:
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
The answer to bad teachers is obvious: pay teachers more.
I would have thought the obvious answer to bad teachers is to sack them? Although, given the ridiculously low number of teachers who have been sacked over the years, it's a point that eluded a lot of people.
Except that several posters have reported that many, most or all teachers are "bad" or "lazy". If you sack a majority of teachers, who replaces them? How do you ensure the replacements are better than the ones that were sacked?
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Deano, almost every bright kid was bullied at school, whether or not it was a pit village (you), a rural school in the heart of the Tory shires (me), or a city comp. Your experience, while unique to you, was not unique.
I'm sure someone will be along to tell us why that happens
It's because thick kids are well aware of their shortcomings, and try to compensate for them by lashing out against those who are their intellectual betters.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Deano, almost every bright kid was bullied at school, whether or not it was a pit village (you), a rural school in the heart of the Tory shires (me), or a city comp. Your experience, while unique to you, was not unique.
I'm sure someone will be along to tell us why that happens
It's because thick kids are well aware of their shortcomings, and try to compensate for them by lashing out against those who are their intellectual betters.
Or the measurement for success in school is academic performance. This puts pressure on those who do not perform as well. The reaction is bullying.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
Deano, almost every bright kid was bullied at school, whether or not it was a pit village (you), a rural school in the heart of the Tory shires (me), or a city comp. Your experience, while unique to you, was not unique.
I'm sure someone will be along to tell us why that happens
It's because thick kids are well aware of their shortcomings, and try to compensate for them by lashing out against those who are their intellectual betters.
Or the measurement for success in school is academic performance. This puts pressure on those who do not perform as well. The reaction is bullying.
In lots of schools - at least when I was growing up in the 70s - the measurement of success was sporting achievement, or some other form of non-academic prowess. My brother was a fine orator and actor, and good at sports (and he still is). I was short-sighted and crap at ball games, running, jumping, climbing - anything that involved physical coordination. Being bad at sports is also a factor in bullying.
Marvin is, I think closer: some of my bullies had essentially peaked at secondary school and would be trapped in whatever life they already had. I was, through sheer force of will, getting out of there no matter what.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
We are not exactly stating different things, we are placing a different emphasis.
Marvin's statement directs the responsibility towards the individual, mine towards society. A combination is more accurate.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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