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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The ethics of Vegetarianism
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
And yet the game fisherman knows much better than the kid eating fish sticks that the fish he is eating was once a living creature. Speaking as someone who has spent many hours chasing trout, I can tell you that being out in nature, trying to cast the lour or fly just right, being quiet for hours, and if you are lucky, reeling in a fish, gives you a respect for the fish
Yeah, those are arguments for torturing the creature before eating it.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Ad Orientem
Shipmate
# 17574
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
And yet the game fisherman knows much better than the kid eating fish sticks that the fish he is eating was once a living creature. Speaking as someone who has spent many hours chasing trout, I can tell you that being out in nature, trying to cast the lour or fly just right, being quiet for hours, and if you are lucky, reeling in a fish, gives you a respect for the fish
Yeah, those are arguments for torturing the creature before eating it.
Is there a better way of catching fish for food?
Posts: 2606 | From: Finland | Registered: Feb 2013
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Raise them in 2 acre ponds feed lot style with 50,000 other fish, fatten them up with grain, send an electric shock through the pond, and then filet them and fry them up so that you don't ever have to acknowledge that you are eating what used to be a living creature.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
But it denies how humans work.
Huh?
I don't really see the difference between what you are proposing and what I am proposing.
You are saying some might stop eating meat if they were part of the experience. I am saying that I disagree.
We both are saying people should have more connection to the process of food production.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I am remembering CS Lewis' discussion of the gluttony of delicacy just now, where eating 'just so' and preaching about it are the core of the sin.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
No prophet: It's a form of overscrupulosity...inventing legalisms. (Martin Luther once quipped how odd it was for the Church to keep inventing new commandments when no one could even keep the original ten.) There's a fine line between following one's conscience in eating in a way one feels is the most healthy, ethical and/or humane -- whether that's going vegan or eating primarily local foods or whatever -- and starting to make that a point of pride and occasion to separate oneself from the rest of society: "Look at me, not torturing animals and polluting the environment like those other people over there."
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
And yet the game fisherman knows much better than the kid eating fish sticks that the fish he is eating was once a living creature. Speaking as someone who has spent many hours chasing trout, I can tell you that being out in nature, trying to cast the lour or fly just right, being quiet for hours, and if you are lucky, reeling in a fish, gives you a respect for the fish
Yeah, those are arguments for torturing the creature before eating it.
Is there a better way of catching fish for food?
No-one is going to blame people in developing countries (or for that matter in the first century Palestine of the NT)who need to catch fish in order to survive, but at least they catch, kill and eat them without unnecessarily tormenting them for as long as possible in the name of "sport".
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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anoesis
Shipmate
# 14189
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
And yet the game fisherman knows much better than the kid eating fish sticks that the fish he is eating was once a living creature. Speaking as someone who has spent many hours chasing trout, I can tell you that being out in nature, trying to cast the lour or fly just right, being quiet for hours, and if you are lucky, reeling in a fish, gives you a respect for the fish
Yeah, those are arguments for torturing the creature before eating it.
Is there a better way of catching fish for food?
No-one is going to blame people in developing countries (or for that matter in the first century Palestine of the NT)who need to catch fish in order to survive, but at least they catch, kill and eat them without unnecessarily tormenting them for as long as possible in the name of "sport".
While I broadly agree with you, Kaplan, and am glad that someone brought up the 'fish issue', as I think of it - really, both sport fishing and fishing for food by private individuals are a total side issue. Fish caught as part of commercial fishery are either crushed or suffocated to death, in truly staggering numbers. And then there's the bycatch. And the environmental degradation. And the forced labour issue. And I ate a can of tuna at lunch today, actually. I note that it did say on the can that it was dolphin friendly - I suppose the idea is that because they are intelligent, and mammals, I will care a lot more about what happens to them than to tuna. In which case I would like to be able to buy cans of tuna which assure me that no Filipino or Korean fishermen were indentured or injured in the production of my tuna...
...the problem with ethical problems is that there is literally no end to them...
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The history of humanity give one little hope that strength left to its own devices won't be abused. Indeed, it gives one little ground to think that strength would continue to exist if it were not abused. -- Dafyd --
Posts: 993 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Oct 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Much like many who convert to religion, when my son turned veggie (aged 16) he was evangelical about it - trying to convert all and sundry and trying to make them feel guilty.
Now, ten years later, he's far less worried about what other people eat but remains a keen environmentalist and vegetarian. When he comes to stay we eat veggie, just because it's easier. He teaches us lots of new and interesting recipes.
[ 04. January 2014, 08:02: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
For me the thing about fish isn't so much the torture of the animal, but the overfishing industrial complexes that float on the seas.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Grokesx:
quote:
Yes, that seems fair - but - if you insist on ethical meat, I'd expect you to insist on ethical animal products also (including leather).
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The essence of being human is that one does not seek perfection, except from them veggies of course - George Orwell
There is a difference between perfection and the blindingly obvious. If you don't want animals raised and killed for you, don't intentionally buy the stuff made from them. If you are going to use everything but the meat, why bother, the animal is just as dead (and was just as maltreated). Perfectionism would be treating it like a peanut allergy.
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Grokesx
Shipmate
# 17221
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Posted
quote:
If you don't want animals raised and killed for you, don't intentionally buy the stuff made from them.
But if it is more practical to avoid eating animal products rather than it is to avoid wearing them, some people might decide that an acceptable, if imperfect option for them would be to give up the steaks and bacon butties but to carry on wearing leather shoes. And it would make fuck all of a difference to the self appointed ethics police, many of whom don't care where their food or shoes come from anyway.
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For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. H. L. Mencken
Posts: 373 | From: Derby, UK | Registered: Jul 2012
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Much like many who convert to religion, when my son turned veggie (aged 16) he was evangelical about it - trying to convert all and sundry and trying to make them feel guilty.
I have a friend who was turned veggie in college by a meat-eating evangelist. Said meat-eater frequently espoused the view that if you ate meat, you should be happy to butcher your own, and by extension not squeamish about things like farmers shooting pests. (I think said meat-eater began the discussion by trying to claim that meat-eaters who opposed fox-hunting were hypocrites.)
My friend thought it over, decided that he agreed, and so stopped eating meat.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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