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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Boycott £2 coins?
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Whereas I buy Christmas stamps because I send Christmas cards through the post, and, given the lines out the door at the post office, I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one. The government, I think, knows that people are rather likely to send mail and cards this time of year, and knows a good moneymaking opportunity when they smell one. I rather suspect this is part of why, at least here in the States, we get stamps for every religion and holiday under the sun. I also suspect that there are people who collect Christmas themed items, including stamps, which, if they're collected and never used, is money paid to the post office for a service that will never be used.
Basically, being part of a multicultural, diverse society is the least of reasons to boycott Christmas stamps; wishing to avoid crass commercialism and overt money-grubbing on the part of the postal service, perhaps a better one.
Additionally, as to the image picked for the £2 coin: is there a better one to commemorate the beginning of the war, with its jingoistic bluster and nationalistic spirit? I wonder if the mint won't be putting out a series of coins, one for each year of the war, each one remembering something particularly important to that time. In 1914, there were no poppies in Flanders' fields, just the promise of an easy and fast defeat of the Hun. While we remember, and should never forget, the bloodshed and horror of the next five years, those setting off to fight in France would not. If you're marking the start of an event, one in which perceptions and ideas changed, mark the start of the event, perhaps even with an image relevant to thinking at that time.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I'm not sure about that. I had the impression that in most countries accepting the national currency is an obligation, not a choice. After all, the guarantee that people will accept it is where the value of a coin or note comes from.
I don't know about other countries, but legal tender in the UK has a very specific meaning.
from the Royal Mint:
quote:
It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes.
Nobody can force either party to accept the coins offered. Change is part of the transaction.
You didn't read all the way to the bottom. For the avoidance of doubt:
quote:
Legal tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.
(My emphasis)
If no change can be demanded, then on the same basis you cannot demand that your change omits specific coins.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Will this image of Kitchener be the infamous finger pointing pose ?
I always think that finger might as well have been the muzzle of the maxim machine guns which wiped out 'Kitchener's Army' at the Somme .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Have these coins already been minted? I've just signed a petition asking for Kitchener to be replaced by some image depicting the loss and suffering caused by that war. I very much doubt if it will have any effect. But if those coins will shortly be in circulation it seems completely pointless and impractical to attempt a 'boycott'. That's not to say we shouldn't continue to protest at any attempt to make the commemoration of WW1 any sort of celebration or jingo-fest.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I hope that Her Majesty is well guarded. AIUI country house guests of both sexes- admittedly rather younger ones than HM is now- used to be warned of the possible consequences of allowing His Lordship to get behind them.
That part of Lord Kitchener isn't on the coin. Presumably it rests at the bottom of the Pentland Firth.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
If no change can be demanded, then on the same basis you cannot demand that your change omits specific coins.
I think you'll find the phrase you have highlighted refers to the narrow definition of legal tender, which is solely related to payment of debt to a court.
It follows the statement "It does not mean that any ordinary transaction needs to take place in legal tender" and so the comment on change also refers to 'ordinary transactions'.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Will this image of Kitchener be the infamous finger pointing pose ?
Yes. BBC news page showing the new coins. The £2 commemorates the 1914-1918 war (rather than specifically the start of the war) with Kitchener pointing out and "Your country needs you" logo. As far as I can see on Google they're now coming into circulation - rather than a proposal for issue later in the year.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
It follows the statement "It does not mean that any ordinary transaction needs to take place in legal tender" and so the comment on change also refers to 'ordinary transactions'.
Rubbish.
quote:
In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.
In order to comply with the rules about legal tender (paying a debt to a court), you must pay with the exact amount.
This clearly has nothing to do with ordinary transactions.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
Posts: 812 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Rev per Minute
Shipmate
# 69
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Posted
Read for comprehension, pydsey, but believe whatever you like. I look forward to the reports of you insisting on specific change from your local stores.
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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor
At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken
Posts: 2696 | From: my desk (if I can find the keyboard under this mess) | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
I rather suspect this is part of why, at least here in the States, we get stamps for every religion and holiday under the sun. .......I wonder if the mint won't be putting out a series of coins, one for each year of the war, each one remembering something particularly important to that time. In 1914, there were no poppies in Flanders' fields, just the promise of an easy and fast defeat of the Hun. While we remember, and should never forget, the bloodshed and horror of the next five years, those setting off to fight in France would not. If you're marking the start of an event, one in which perceptions and ideas changed, mark the start of the event, perhaps even with an image relevant to thinking at that time.
When, in the UK, we have stamps for Diwali, Eid etc., I'll buy all of them.
Re further coins over the years, I very much hope you are right and think that some sort of campaign now might make that happen.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
I suppose that no-one had bothered to think about how a boycott won't, presumably, change the policy of the government or the Royal Mint but has the potential to seriously mess up the day for a harassed cashier in a bank or supermarket?
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Have these coins already been minted? I've just signed a petition asking for Kitchener to be replaced by some image depicting the loss and suffering caused by that war. I very much doubt if it will have any effect. But if those coins will shortly be in circulation it seems completely pointless and impractical to attempt a 'boycott'. That's not to say we shouldn't continue to protest at any attempt to make the commemoration of WW1 any sort of celebration or jingo-fest.
I signed that too - but didn't mention it because the Ship forbids us to 'crusade'.
Agree entirely with your last sentence.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
pydseybare
I think you'll find the average salesperson less than delighted if asked to exchange perfectly good coin(s) for other(s) of the same denomination.
And what about automated tills???
And Leo: if you're really so republican presumably you refuse to be a member of anything with a royal patron or with royal in the title?
So no National Trust, RSPCA, RSPB, etc...
Indeed - not into animals or birds, maybe I should be.
though i think my church is a corporate member of the Royal Society for Church Music.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Why?
My post says why.
Um, your post contains a massive non-sequitur?
Am in too much of a hurry to see what the Latin means - we used to have a rule requiring translation by those who posted in another language.
Save me time by telling me what it means and I can comment.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Stercus Tauri
Shipmate
# 16668
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Posted
If I was a cashier in a shop where Leo was known as a regular customer, I think I might quietly and politely accede to his request, making use of a large stash of pennies set aside for the purpose.
I don't think much of Kitchener either, but annoying the people who have to handle the cash won't take his mug off the coins.
How about the 2011 £2 coin celebrating the 400th anniversary of the KJV? Was there a multi faith outcry over that?
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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)
Posts: 905 | From: On the traditional lands of the Six Nations. | Registered: Sep 2011
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Why?
My post says why.
Um, your post contains a massive non-sequitur?
Save me time by telling me what it means and I can comment.
A logical fallacy where a stated conclusion is not supported by its premise.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
What's convenient about this mission is that it gives you something to feel smug about without actually requiring any changes in your lifestyle.
Pacifists went to prison, were bullied etc. Being anti-war has been sacrificial to many
And by annoying cashiers you can count yourself as one of them. ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I actually kind of understand this. Several years back, someone was trying to put a bill through that would have put Reagan's image on the American dime. Fro reasons I won't get into but I'm sure you could guess, I think Reagan was a scoundrel.
But,as Zach says, why hassle some cashier, who has no part in anything? My plan, had the legislation passed, was to collect all those diimes that came my way and send them off to AIDS organizations.
So, there's your boycott-swords into plowshares. Collect all those coins and donate the to the International Institute for Peace.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
I don't know how much you can buy for a dime these days, having not been to the States since 1997, but 2 quid's not the sort of sum I could give away every time I got one.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I actually kind of understand this. Several years back, someone was trying to put a bill through that would have put Reagan's image on the American dime. Fro reasons I won't get into but I'm sure you could guess, I think Reagan was a scoundrel.
What's interesting about this is that as a president who refused to learn the nuclear launch codes 8 months into his presidency based simply on his conviction that launching them would be immoral, Reagan might have actually sympathised with you.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
If you want to open a thread on the pros and cons of Reagan, I will join you there. And invite RuthW. Actually, there might already be one of those in Limbo somewhere. My point was making the currency protest proactive, if possible.
[ 04. January 2014, 20:10: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Am in too much of a hurry to see what the Latin means - we used to have a rule requiring translation by those who posted in another language.
Save me time by telling me what it means and I can comment.
You really don't know what a non-sequitur is? Latin in origin, but thoroughly Anglicized. How are you on ad hoc and post mortem? Would you require glosses for hoi polloi and tiramisu, bungalow and detente, schadenfreude and chutzpah?
[ 04. January 2014, 20:20: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
I think it is inappropriate to ridicule Shipmates for not knowing whatever foreign phrase happens to appear. I suspect most of us know terms with which ate least some others would be less than familiar. I frequently encounter technical terms in discussions (having to do with philosophy or theology) for which I may need to seek definitions on line. Some people who use such terms are doubtless intending to be precise, and others, I suspect, are snobs.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I am not ridiculing - merely expressing genuine surprise. Leo has frequently advertised his extensive reading of academic and theological texts, so it seems a strange lacuna*.
*unfilled space, a gap.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Dodgy people being on various parts of British Sterling will not be effectively fought against via boycotts, I believe. Now, what this is really about is about how WWI should be remembered. Blackadder was right. Gove is wronger than a very wrong thing.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
The Royal Mint's new £2 coins, by way of 'celebrating' the outbreak of World War one, have Lord Kitchener on the front (of whom it was said that he was better on a poster than in real life.)
Can you quote to a link where the coin is described by the Mint as 'celebrating' WWII? Commemorating, yes. But of course that's a different thing altogether.
However, it does seem bizarre to use an image on 21st century British currency which is popularly notorious for representing some of the worst aspects of a hellish national experience, from the early 20th century. Whatever that particular icon of Kitchener was famous for at the time of its original use, it fairly quickly lost all popular appeal or approval. So it seems strange - if not inexplicable - to use it now for whatever reason. If one wanted to commemorate the loss of life during that war there are surely other images much more appropriate?
Practically speaking, boycotting the use of the coin seems stupid. It will only be an extra pain in the arse for people who work tills and do cashier work. Better to write letters to people in authority if one is truly concerned about it.
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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!
Posts: 10002 | From: Scotland the Brave | Registered: Jul 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
It's a relatively academic question, because businesses tend to want to satisfy reasonable requests made by their customers, and so (assuming there's adequate change in the till) leo is likely to be able to avoid receiving £2 coins in change.
However, I'm sure tempers will fly at some point during any such boycott, in which case the precise legal nature of change might be of relevance.
I think it's clear that there is no absolute obligation to give change, because one often finds automated machines that insist on exact payment only.
My guess is that because change is usually given unless stated otherwise, it's assumed that if I overpay in a shop I did so with the implicit expectation of receiving change. However I don't think there's any sense that I could claim an implicit expectation of receiving specific coins in my change - because that's definitely not usual.
In other words, I would guess that if leo refuses his change, the shop has no obligation to offer him an alternative. But I am not a lawyer.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
News story from BBC describing the four new designs for this year:
- £2 coin with Lord Kitchener to mark the centenary of WWI - the first of a series,
- Another £2 coin design, not shown, to mark the 500th anniversary of Trinity House,
- £1 coins with various floral designs for national flowers - shamrock, thistle ...
- 50p coin with Commonwealth games design
Royal Mint press release saying that this £2 coin is the first in a series to mark the full centenary from 2014 to 2018.
sorry x-post - that was in response to Anselmina
[ 04. January 2014, 22:35: Message edited by: Curiosity killed ... ]
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
Royal Mint press release saying that this £2 coin is the first in a series to mark the full centenary from 2014 to 2018.
That would make more sense: the Kitchener poster very much typifies the initial attitude to the war. If it's succeeded by other images which reflect the actuality, then fair enough.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Do you boycott stamps with a white person on them because we are a multi-racial society?
There's a Circus game parodying the tendency to be offended for the most trivial reasons possible. It feels like you wandered across from there.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Orfeo wrote:
quote:
Do you boycott stamps with a white person on them because we are a multi-racial society?
That comparison is a little off-base, because the simple fact of someone having a particular skin colour does not represent a truth-claim against anyone else.
Whereas a nativity-scene, for example, is meant to represent certain theological ideas, with the implicit suggestion that people who disagree with those ideas are in the wrong.
[ 04. January 2014, 23:03: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by fletcher christian:
Posted by Leo:
quote:
I boycott stamps with a Christmas picture on them because we are a multi-faith society.
Lol, how is boycotting images of faith (regardless of what faith they happen to be) being a multi-faith society. It's like an inverted bigotry, utter crap.
"Inverted bigotry" is, it seems to me, at the heart of a great many of leo's stances, and it's exactly why I have such a problem with them. He seems to think that the way to not discriminate against non-Christians is not simply to stop discriminating against non-Christians, but to bend over backwards to show just how much he's not discriminating against non-Christians.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Orfeo wrote:
quote:
Do you boycott stamps with a white person on them because we are a multi-racial society?
That comparison is a little off-base, because the simple fact of someone having a particular skin colour does not represent a truth-claim against anyone else.
Whereas a nativity-scene, for example, is meant to represent certain theological ideas, with the implicit suggestion that people who disagree with those ideas are in the wrong.
I disagree. There's a truth-claim that white people are more presentable and more attractive to look at. There's an implicit suggestion that white people are the 'standard' kind of people that we should be seeing on nationally circulated material.
Are you not familiar with all the arguments about how our advertising, television shows and films don't accurately reflect the demographic reality?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Before anyone points out the real flaw in my racial analogy, let me point it out for you. Because the exact flaw exists in all of leo's 'inverse bigotry' positions.
The flaw lies in responding to a systemic problem through an individualised boycott.
Okay yes, so white people are over-represented in our imagery - whether it be advertising, TV shows, whatever.
So we should have a larger proportion of black people, Asian people etc being represented, right? Absolutely!
But what does a boycott of white images do? It takes the representation of white people from 'too high' to zero. A massive underrepresentation.
The same with this Christmas stamp business. Do we live in multicultural societies? Yes. Would it be good to have stamps representing Ramadan/Eid and festivals of other religions? Yes. (By the way, Australia has Chinese New Year stamps, and also gold/silver collector coins. Frankly I don't know how much of this simply intended as international marketing to our Asian neighbours rather than being for Australian internal consumption).
Does boycotting Christmas stamps reduce the proportion of Christian representation to a level consistent with the Christian element of the population? No. It reduces it to zero instead.
That's pretty much the essence of 'inverse bigotry'. Overreacting to overrepresentation by enforcing severe underrepresentation. Instead of trying to achieve balance, people like leo try to make a win for the people who traditionally lose.
And with the coins... Firenze has it. You don't commemorate World War I by being raving pacifists for 4 consecutive years of coin releases. That's not balanced. A coin for the 100th anniversary of 1914 can, completely appropriately, reflect the zeitgeist of 1914. If they're still reflecting the zeitgeist of 1914 rather than 1918 when the 2018 coins come out, then there can be a complaint about a systemic problem.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
The Australian polymer $100 bank note features a portrait of WWI general Sir John Monash, with a (I think) eighteen pounder gun crew in the background.
The OP of a parallel thread asks the question whether the term "politically correct" is ever useful.
The OP of this thread possibly provides an answer.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Monash was one of the great Generals in WW 1* - caring for troops, opposed to the policy of over the trenches, great organiser and so forth. He and Mawson deserve all the recognition they get.
You're right about the OP, even though I don't think Kitchener deserves any great fame
* The other was Canadian General Sir Arthur Currie.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
You should probably include Lord Byng in there too. He was the Canadian Corps' commander until 1917 after Vimy; Currie was his deputy. Byng may have been a British aristocrat, but he did like that he got a Corps of volunteers longer than other British generals, and he didn't stand in the way of his Canadian subordinates when they tried to fix things after the disaster of the Somme. Of course he was made Viscount Vimy for his efforts and their results.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Uncle Pete
Loyaute me lie
# 10422
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Posted
Viscount Byng of Vimy
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Even more so than I was before
Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Monash was one of the great Generals in WW 1* - caring for troops, opposed to the policy of over the trenches, great organiser and so forth. He and Mawson deserve all the recognition they get.
You're right about the OP, even though I don't think Kitchener deserves any great fame
* The other was Canadian General Sir Arthur Currie.
Yes, of course Monash was a far greater commander than Kitchener ("the great poster", as Margot Asquith called him), but that is not the point.
The point is that the criticisms of the new UK two pound coin could also be directed at the Australian $100 note, but I am not aware that it has ever been the cause of any comment.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
I'm a republican and Kitchener was a wankbadger, but this is pretty ridiculous. It's the kind of middle-class meaningless posturing that gives lefties a bad name.
I also volunteer for leo to send me his unwanted £2 coins ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
... Whereas a nativity-scene, for example, is meant to represent certain theological ideas, with the implicit suggestion that people who disagree with those ideas are in the wrong.
Even put like that, it's still fairly odd to boycott something that represents something you believe in and therefore agree with.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Although, a traditional Nativity scene with Magi, shepherds, Mary and Joseph gathered around a manger with angels and a prominent star above isn't really what I believe either. Although, this years Santa surrounded by presents doesn't present that problem, devoid of theological content entirely.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded.
In order to comply with the rules about legal tender (paying a debt to a court), you must pay with the exact amount.
This clearly has nothing to do with ordinary transactions.
You're wrong. The Royal Mint's website is referring to the 'defence of tender' to a court action brought to recover a debt, not to a debt owed to the Court itself.
If someone sues you for money you owe, it is a good defence to say "but I offered to pay him and he refused to take my money". However to prove that you mean it, and aren't just making shit up (as, astonishingly, debtors have occasionally been known to do), if you raise this 'defence of tender', you have to pay the money 'into Court' - pay it to a Court bank account to prove that the money is available and can be used to settle the debt if the creditor will take it.
The rule about legal tender is that it sets out rules about what it would be reasonable to accept as good tender. Try to pay your £900 rent in pennies in order to piss off your landlord, and he's within his rights to refuse to take them. When he sues you, and you claim a defence of tender, you can't pull that shit on the Court - you have to pay the money in sensibly.
Of course, when paying money into Court most people write a cheque, so the practical effect on most people of legal tender rules is zero. I believe (but don't know for sure) that Scotland gets by without any legal tender rules at all, and of course, Scottish banknotes are accepted in England despite not being legal tender.
And add me to the list of people willing to take leo's money to spare him offence.
[ 05. January 2014, 08:57: Message edited by: Eliab ]
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I could imagine that someone would dislike stamps with a nativity scene from a separation of Church and State point of view (not that this separation is particularly strong in England).
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lots of Yay
Cookies enabled
# 2790
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Posted
I recently spent two weeks in England with a friend and we were both baffled by how underused the £2 coin is. On countless occasions at all sorts of places we were both given up to £8 change in £1 coins. I was clearly the more special of the two of us because I think 7 £2 coins crossed my palm, but my friend was given only one in the whole fortnight. Each time we spent an amount that would result in £2-9 of change there was great suspense as to whether we would strike the jackpot or not. Usually not.
So I feel that this is a moot point. You'd have to try very hard to boycott the damn things because that would involve being offered them in the first place!
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Current status: idle
Tales of Variable Yayness
Photos of stuff. Including Pooka!
Posts: 2006 | From: the plasticine room | Registered: May 2002
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Indeed. I look out for special edition coins because I'm strange, and I'd say the number of times you actually get them is very low. (I've seen the Dickens £2 about twice and I've yet to see the Edinburgh pound coin.)
So while I agree with previous posters that making cashiers' jobs harder is a Bad Thing, the practical result is more likely to be that a boycott passes entirely unnoticed.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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