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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: It's about killing yourself before dementia sets in.
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Meg the Red
Shipmate
# 11838
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Posted
Having worked in a program for adults with dementia and social isolation, and in one focusing on elder abuse, I can say unequivocally that what terrifies me about getting older is the prospect of helplessness. The likelihood is high that I will have no family caregivers should I become unable to care for myself, and I've seen enough to know that not everyone is lucky enough to escape neglect and (frequently horrific) abuse, particularly if they have no advocate. And even devoted caregivers can get so exhausted and overwhelmed and resentful that they snap; I've witnessed it firsthand.
I hope and pray I take after my vibrant, self-sufficient 84-year-old mother; if I don't, I want the option of choosing when and how I leave this life. I might not exercise that option, but I want to have it.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) prayers for everyone struggling with this
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Chocoholic Canuckistani Cyclopath
Posts: 1126 | From: Rat Creek | Registered: Sep 2006
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'm sorry to say that I'm nowhere near as altruistic in my reasons for wanting to escape dementia et al. I figure my son can take his turn at caregiving, just as I take mine. And if I lose my marbles, well, they were always in a holey container anyway. I'm pretty sure a number of them are under the sofa as I type.
No, I have a suckier reason for wanting to escape. It's pride. I hate the thought of being helpless, needing to be diapered, smelling bad (yech yecch yeccccch), and being incoherent where people can hear me. I don't want to be exposed for the dependent person that I really am at base, no matter how I camouflage it right now with shows of competence and self-sufficiency. In particular I don't want to lose my current status as adult self-supporting head of household and have to humbly accept dependence on people who used to depend on me.
But speaking as a Christian, I don't think I can get out of that. Humility and even humiliation were a big part of what Christ went through; and "where I am, there my servants must also be". I will definitely think it really, really, REALLY sucks if I have to get humbled that way; but bailing out of this life for the sake of pride is just not on.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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morningstar
Shipmate
# 15860
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Posted
Thank you for that LC.
I'd read through the whole thread, hoping that someone would say what you said in your post because the 'humility' and 'acceptance' point had been on my mind while reading, but probably wouldn't have come out quite as well as you put it if I'd tried to express it. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Posts: 116 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I have been totally helpless and dependent three times after major ops. The thing that kept me going was the knowledge that it was temporary.
All the people in Mum's home who can still speak strongly believe that this is a temporary situation and that they'll be home tomorrow.
I always take my labrador, Tatze, when I visit Mum and she does the rounds of the people there for cuddles and pets. She is much loved there. Those who had dogs in the past say "my dog is called ** and I'll see her tomorrow/when I get home." These were pets from years ago, of course.
This gives me some hope - so long as we live on the same planet and agree with them, they seem very content. I think the worst time by far is after diagnosis but before arriving on planet X3Z9.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I think the worst time by far is after diagnosis but before arriving on planet X3Z9.
Indeed.
My mother died about fourteen years ago.
Prior to her marriage she had held a responsible position as a nurse in a major hospital, and once my siblings and I were all at school, she took part-time work at a geriatric institution.
Often after a shift she would arrive home and announce, semi-seriously, “Whatever you do, kids, never let me get to that stage! Shoot me first!”
Sure enough, she developed Alzheimer’s in her mid 70s, and for some time knew exactly what was happening to her, and where she was heading.
She finished up lying on a bed for years, huddled in a foetal position, and being fed, washed and changed.
Her eyes were open and unblinking, but we didn’t know whether she could see, and while I regularly spoke to and prayed with her, she showed no signs of being able to hear.
Then a doctor (possibly a new one) rang me, suggesting that she might be in suffering but unable to communicate it, and would I give permission for her to be administered pain-killers, just in case.
The sub-text was unmistakable (“Thou must not kill, yet need not strive…”)
My brother, sister and I agreed, and she died within the week.
On the other subject, I have sometimes thought about posting regarding suicide, but assumed (admittedly without checking) that the Ship, like some other media, prohibited such discussion for fear of influencing the psychologically vulnerable.
Has God “fix’d His canon ‘gainst self-slaughter”?
There are about half a dozen cases of suicide in the Bible (Abimelech, Ahitophel, Judas, Samson, Saul, Zimri), but no explicit teaching about it.
“Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends” at least suggests the possibility of suicide as permissible for the sake of others.
Lawence Oates’s self-sacrifice in 1912, in an attempt to save Scott’s Antarctic expedition, illustrates the principle.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
A friend of mine, very old, was checked by her doctor, who said he always checked very old people in case they had dementia. She was asked to tell him 10 lots of animals beginning with "s"... That is very difficult for all of us!
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
deano, and all of you who do not wish to go through Dementia, you have my full sympathy and empathy. I work with people who are older and many of them have Dementia / Alzheimer's. It is awful to see someone you knew as vital no longer be that vital person, but someone who looks like them - but is not.
I also have personal experience with Dementia as my mother suffered from Dementia that the rest of my family denied for years before my father died and they finally had to face the fact that she could not stay in her house alone. The process of changing from the child who depends upon the parent to the parent who orders around a recalcitrant child who has little idea they are now a child is wrenching.
My mother lived in a couple of assisted living centers for a total of almost five years before she passed on earlier this year. I would visit her as I could (she lived in two other states.) I would also call at least once a week.
I dreaded those calls. Every other sentence was "When are you coming down to see me?" And, her short term memory was so gone that we would have the exact same conversation over and over on a ten minute call. For days after each call every time I had a "senior moment" I would know - for certain - that I was beginning the long decline of Dementia.
Yes, I have talked a lot of families into placing their parents and grandparents into assisted living. At the same time I was telling them about the benefits of regular medical care and a regular healthy diet, I was thinking "Not me. Not ever."
My mother eventually died. She fell off her bed and broke her hip. The subsequent hospitalization and rehabilitation admission was too much for her and she quit having the will to live.
That last sentence is key here. She had the will to live for almost five years. She had the will because she was quite content and happy. She had friends. Yes, the conversations tended to be repetitive - and so what. She had her boyfriends even as she could not quite remember their names and they may not have been aware of their status. So what. She was happy.
My longest standing elder client died Saturday morning at 3. (I know, they called me.) She had early onset Dementia. In fact, I never knew her without Dementia; fairly advanced Dementia at that.
I'll tell you a secret about her. She was happy as a clam. She had so much joy in her boyfriends that at least one facility director made me have a talk with them about public displays. OK, so maybe her discretion switch was turned off. She had her friends. And yes, there were reminders. When I would take her back home from a doctor visit she would refer to it as "going back to the office." Closer to the end she would tell me her daddy would take care of compensating me for my help.
I met her when her then husband was going through the stage of Dementia some experience where they become violent. He was beating her up and had to leave the facility. His son was trying to make my lady come with his dad so he didn't have to quit stealing from him. - Please excuse me, but it must be said - Asshole.
My point is that People with Dementia can lead perfectly contented lives. We who do not have Dementia look upon them with horror and pity. All that shows is that we cannot get out of ourselves enough to envision them from their point of view.
Yes, there are some who have Dementia that makes them paranoid and violent. I think that speaks to how they were before Dementia. You do not change your basic personality with Dementia. You just let the loose screws blossom.
Now that I like myself a little more I have a much easier time envisioning myself as being reasonably happy in assisted living. My physical horizon will be limited - and so will my mental horizon. They will fir together pretty well, assuming I live that long.
God may have a plan for me to die before Dementia. God may have a plan for me to die after a long bout of Dementia. In either case it is God's plan and not my choice. Worrying about a future of Dementia will not change that future one whit. Having faith in God's love is enough for me for now.
Sorry about the long post.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Belle Ringer
Shipmate
# 13379
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
All the people in Mum's home who can still speak strongly believe that this is a temporary situation and that they'll be home tomorrow.
That's why it's so hard when your kids sell your house. Takes away the hope of going back home.
Posts: 5830 | From: Texas | Registered: Jan 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
All the people in Mum's home who can still speak strongly believe that this is a temporary situation and that they'll be home tomorrow.
That's why it's so hard when your kids sell your house. Takes away the hope of going back home.
Not really - by this stage their memory is so far gone that they don't know what's happening. Of course, if we weren't talking about dementia then that's a different story.
Of course the kids usually have little choice. You can't have many assets if you live in state financed care.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Yes, there are some who have Dementia that makes them paranoid and violent. I think that speaks to how they were before Dementia. You do not change your basic personality with Dementia. You just let the loose screws blossom.
I am not a medic but isn't it more accurate to say that "you do not change your basic personality with Alzheimer's, which is the most common form of dementia, but there are other forms"?
I do agree with the contentment point, however. There was a time when my grandmother was distressed at not being able to remember things that she should know - but then she got to the point where she no longer knew that she should know them and yes, she was happy as a clam.
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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Yes, there are some who have Dementia that makes them paranoid and violent. I think that speaks to how they were before Dementia. You do not change your basic personality with Dementia. You just let the loose screws blossom.
Great post. While I'm sure this is true, I think it can be a bit misleading though. One of the most peace-causing mild-mannered men I have ever known apparently became quite violent with Alzheimers. I'm sure it was a facet of his personality, but if so that only says what an incredibly restrained person he was!
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
I am not a medic but isn't it more accurate to say that "you do not change your basic personality with Alzheimer's, which is the most common form of dementia, but there are other forms"?
I don’t know whether your basic personality is changed, but form my own personal experience with my MiL, the Alzheimer’s/dementia seemed to highlight and enhance aspects of her personality that were always there, and not for the better.
She became more arrogant and selfish as the disease progressed. She was always proud, but that tilted into arrogance, and her demanding nature that she had when younger became out-and-out selfishness in the later years, to the point where she couldn’t understand why my wife had to leave from looking after her to go and fetch the children from school.
I think it strips away a person’s ability to cope with expected social niceties and leaves the more unpleasant aspects of our characters exposed.
[code]
[ 15. January 2014, 09:31: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
In so many ways, old age is the mirror of childhood. You revert to the totally egocentric baby - but without the big-eyed charm to carry it off. Even in the benign version, you revert to sleeping much of the time.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
In so many ways, old age is the mirror of childhood. You revert to the totally egocentric baby - but without the big-eyed charm to carry it off. Even in the benign version, you revert to sleeping much of the time.
And without the hope of a steady growth to independence. It's a slide backwards into babyhood. My Mum is now in nappies, eating pureed food and sleeping 90% of the time. So about 3 months old. I expect the next stage will be curled up and sleeping, taking only liquids.
My brother's partner's daughter was born with Rett syndrome and is now 30 years old. She has never moved or spoken, she's often uncomfortable, her only pleasure is looking at birds on the bird table.
I often feel bad when I am upset over Mum. Mum has had a long, happy, productive life. SIL's daughter never will ![[Frown]](frown.gif) .
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I think it strips away a person’s ability to cope with expected social niceties and leaves the more unpleasant aspects of our characters exposed.
I think a lot depends, too, on how well a person was able to naturally understand and fit in with social norms and niceties to begin with. I'm not sure it's always necessarily about goodness or badness of character. For some people, fitting in with the world and being likeable comes naturally. For others, it is always a huge effort, because of the way their brain works, so old age (not necessariy even dementia) is going to make it a lot harder to make that effort. What lies underneath the effort, when the effort can no longer be applied, is not necessarily an unpleasant character, but often simply a person with a brain which finds the world confusing and frightening and overwhelming.
Just thinking about my Grandad - I suspect he was on the autism spectrum, like myself. He always found social niceties confusing, and would often say things that were seen as rude, and had difficulty modifying his expression of emotion. In old age, he found it more and more difficult to be around people - he snapped at them, insulted them, and was more and more irritable. People were often scared of him - they found him aggressive. I don't think this was unpleasantness of character - he was a very loving and vulnerable person who simply found it difficult to express this and easily got overwhelmed.
I imagine when I am old, I too will be seen as 'difficult'. I am aware that even now, when I am tired or unwell, I become 'more autistic' - ie. less able to make the effort to use all my strategies for fitting in with the world and controlling sensory input. I get sensory overload more easily, I find myself more agitated and less able to monitor my tone of voice, and I can come across as rude/aloof/aggressive/snobby, when none of that is intended at all. I'm sure this will be the case when I'm old and frail, whether or not I get dementia - but it doesn't mean that my natural character is unpleasant (or indeed pleasant - it's simply not an indicator of virtue or lack thereof).
I think this is important to point out, because I remember when I worked in elderly care homes, my colleagues would always say that you can tell a person's real character by how they act when they're old - whether they were a nice or a nasty person. This seems to be a very common notion. And I don't think it's as simple as all that. You could say that if a person has been making so much effort all their life, then perhaps that in itself is more of a virtue than those for whom it comes so naturally they barely have to try.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I think it strips away a person’s ability to cope with expected social niceties and leaves the more unpleasant aspects of our characters exposed.
I think a lot depends, too, on how well a person was able to naturally understand and fit in with social norms and niceties to begin with. I'm not sure it's always necessarily about goodness or badness of character. For some people, fitting in with the world and being likeable comes naturally. For others, it is always a huge effort, because of the way their brain works, so old age (not necessariy even dementia) is going to make it a lot harder to make that effort. What lies underneath the effort, when the effort can no longer be applied, is not necessarily an unpleasant character, but often simply a person with a brain which finds the world confusing and frightening.
That is an excellent and very truthful insight, one that I had not seen before. Much appreciated, Fineline.
And I agree that this is a moving and remarkable thread in many ways. Thanks to all contributors so far.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
My Mum is now in nappies, eating pureed food and sleeping 90% of the time. So about 3 months old.
Same with mine. In a weird way, she is physically healthier than she has been for a long time and is putting on weight! She's 88 and comes from a long lived family so she could last for years more.
On the changing personality issue, there are many different sorts of dementia and even within any one version, there are variations but my interpretation is closer to Fineline's. My mother was a bitter and angry woman before the Alzheimers but showed it in a 'passive aggressive' way. The inner censor is gone now and the anger is overt, she has stopped pretending to be sociable. She screams and tries to kick, hit and bite the care staff. Which also fits with boogie's comment about being like a baby - before it begins to be socialised. Second childhood then second babyhood.
All I can say is do what you can to help those you love happy - maybe that helps them a bit when this monster strikes. For whatever reason almost nothing I or my stepfather have ever done has made my mother happy and she always made that obvious to us - and the dementia has been (as long as we could tell) a worsening continuation of her misery.
[ 15. January 2014, 17:48: Message edited by: que sais-je ]
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Yes, there are some who have Dementia that makes them paranoid and violent. I think that speaks to how they were before Dementia. You do not change your basic personality with Dementia. You just let the loose screws blossom.
Great post. While I'm sure this is true, I think it can be a bit misleading though. One of the most peace-causing mild-mannered men I have ever known apparently became quite violent with Alzheimers. I'm sure it was a facet of his personality, but if so that only says what an incredibly restrained person he was!
My mother had Alzheimers for over a dozen years. She was always a peaceful woman through life except for the brief time during her illness that she became violent. She attacked my daughter, blessed out a door, cold cocked an old main at the nursing home, was found rolling on the floor beating up a potted plant that had said something unkind, etc. We had to hire some people go to the nursing home to sit with her 24/7 for a few weeks until it passed. But she never once spanked my brothers or me as we were growing up. It was a phase she went through as part of her illness. A part just like when she was convinced my brother was a famous artist (he's not an artist at all) and that he must be in horrible trouble because he received bank statements in the mail.
But not everyone gets dementia, as you know. My dad's mom was clear as a bell even on the day she died when she was in her mid 90s.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
The theory that during dementia the “real” person emerges is highly questionable.
I have heard of men who had behaved with appropriate propriety all their lives attempting to grope nurses, and previously devout Christians coming out with blatant blasphemies.
Surely the “real” person is the one whom the person chooses to be when is possession of their faculties.
Thus a person with kleptomaniac inclinations might have chosen on principle to resist them and to exercise scrupulous honesty all their life, but have slipped into petty pilfering under the disability of Alzheimer’s in a nursing home.
It would be grossly unfair to dismiss such a person as “really” a thief who had cunningly covered up their proclivities while able to do so, but whose “real” identity was finally exposed.
[ 15. January 2014, 23:19: Message edited by: Kaplan Corday ]
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Amika
Shipmate
# 15785
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Posted
Although he never received more than a diagnosis of early dementia - he died of a stroke - I believe the form my dad had was 'dementia with Lewy bodies'. In this form, people have hallucinations, often believe that their spouse is an imposter, and can have delusions of persecution. My dad had all of these, which is why earlier in this thread I described his last days as tormented.
I would have to patiently talk him out of barricading himself in the house because unknown people wanted to take it away from him; he believed my mum was an imposter sent by the police; he was convinced there was a man living in the spare bedroom; he sprayed half the house for invisible insects; he cut off the plugs to almost all the household appliances, and so on.
He seemed to be desperate to escape something (probably what was happening to him, is my guess), and talked about catching trains and getting away, going back to childhood places. We were in constant fear that he would do this, and on a number of occasions we had to talk him out of going out, or go looking for him when he had left the house, or go with him (even when he was only wearing pyjamas - he wouldn't change them) to make sure he was okay.
The problem was that he was not a person who could be persuaded easily of anything. A stubborn, irritable and grumpy person to start with, he became even more so, and with some aggression too, under the influence of the dementia.
He never knew he had dementia. I'm not sure he knew that there was anything wrong with him. Despite things getting pretty bad, we couldn't see how he would have gone into a home. We dreaded that day coming as he would have gone kicking and screaming, and I'm sure feeling completely betrayed by us. As it turned out we never had to do it.
Posts: 147 | From: Ingerland | Registered: Aug 2010
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
The theory that during dementia the “real” person emerges is highly questionable.
I have heard of men who had behaved with appropriate propriety all their lives attempting to grope nurses, and previously devout Christians coming out with blatant blasphemies.
Surely the “real” person is the one whom the person chooses to be when is possession of their faculties.
Yes, I completely agree. In one care home I worked in, there was an elderly woman who had apparently had a job as a head teacher in her younger years, and had been well-respected in her community as a capable, no-nonsense person, good at organising things and people. With dementia, she was quiet and withdrawn, and would take her poop from her bottom, roll it into balls and eat it. Everyone said she'd have been mortified at what she was doing if she'd been in possession of her faculties.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
There had never been any known instances of my mother getting into fist fights with potted plants before her Alzheimers.
We had a relative who would strip naked and stroll the neighborhood in broad daylight. He never did that before the dementia kicked in. One time when he had snuck out and couldn't be found the family eventually called the cops. At least he was easy to describe. It was doubtful the cops would show up with the wrong naked old man.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Gill H
Shipmate
# 68
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Posted
My gran was always softly spoken, gentle, and considered 'belly' a naughty word. Once when I was little, she saw mum give me a light tap on the hand to stop me doing something, and she burst into tears and said 'Don't you ever smack that child!'
Over the seven years of dementia, she went from this to someone who was constantly screaming, biting, and swearing like a trooper.
If those things were in her personality to begin with, they were buried extremely deep.
(We did have our funny moments though. One day, after a long period of swearing profusely, she quietened down for a while. Then Dadasked Mum where something was, and she replied 'It's over there - on the bottom shelf'. Gran glared at her and said self-righteously 'We don't use that word in this house!'
Family collapsed in giggles, and a new family catchphrase was born.
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Love that. Illustrates a lot of things. I'm pretty gripped by Fineline's insight that what we've got to start with, by way of wiring (or early experiences before you had much of any defences) does not in any way define who we are. Rather it is a sign of the challenges we all face to greater or lesser extents in reading the signs, fitting in, behaving well in other folks' eyes.
If people start to behave badly or oddly, surely that is a sign of the sadness of the condition, rather than any kind of commentary on what they are "really" like? Self-control is a conscious process. Being stripped of that by any condition is hard to contemplate without the fear of some secret "real us" who we've concealed successfully finally emerging.
I'm moving further away from any kind of "one size fits all" approach to this. Seen too much pain in the eyes of sufferers and their loved one for that.
My brother spoke with brilliant insight and affection at the funeral of his mother in law after a long long downhill journey. But it was her journey, and unique to her. Mother in law and my mum were with my brother and his wife for Christmas dinner one year; ma-in-law was in residential care at this stage. She had a good day to start with, had some good conversations with my mum. Later on, after staring at my mum for a while, this came out of her mouth.
"Who the hell are you anyway? What are YOU doing here, eating our food and drinking our drink? Why don't you get off to your own home where you belong?"
(I think "hell" and "get" were the words used, or maybe my brother was being kind.)
It got handled well, of course. And nobody thought that was the "real person" being revealed.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
The theory that during dementia the “real” person emerges is highly questionable.
I have heard of men who had behaved with appropriate proprietary all their lives attempting to grope nurses, and previously devout Christians coming out with blatant blasphemies.
Wonder if there are any cases of violent, groping obnoxious types turning in to kindly saints after the onset of dementia ?
It could be a Jekyll and Hyde thing . Hyde is hidden, tamed and suppressed . If dementia should set in he finds expression . A terrible thing to see in a loved one whom you thought you knew .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
It could be a Jekyll and Hyde thing . Hyde is hidden, tamed and suppressed .
Precisely what it isn't IMO. The notion of the hidden monster dies hard.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
My mum died three years ago at the age of 97. My dad died 20 years before that, so her life since bereavement went in three stages: first, trying and mostly succeeding to cope, to be the caring loving mother and grandmother she always had been, physically fit and active; secondly, she became very depressed and (until we managed to prevent her access to it) dependent on alcohol; thirdly, after being found collapsed on the floor (she had stubbornly resisted moving from her 'own' house) being taken to hospital and thence to a care home. She was bewildered, disoriented and confused... clearly suffering from some form of dementia though Alzheimers was never diagnosed... but her anxieties disappeared, her depression lifted and her smiles returned. The staff in the home(s - she was in two, consecutively) loved her because she was always so gracious, always said 'thank you' and was 'no trouble'.
I do think if she had died before this stage she would have died unhappy. As it was, she died very peacefully and I am sure was as happy as she had been for a long time. Indeed, maybe the happiest ever, because although she had a long and happy marriage life was never easy for her financially or socially; anxiety was always present and she always yearned for 'better things'. In those last few years and months she was just 'herself', in all her simplicity.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
I suspect that many people with dementia are reacting to frustration. Before they developed dementia they could arrange many aspects of their lives as they pleased. That is no longer the case, and they are very uncomfortable.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
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Posted
Interesting comment, Moo. I can see that might be so in lots of cases. In my mother's case I think the reverse might be true. She had worked as a domestic servant for most of her life, and in any case had been conditioned to be always looking after others. That raison d'être vanished when my dad died. It was only when she developed dementia and was unable either to look after others or to worry about it, that she regained serenity.
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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
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