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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: On having one's looks commented on
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
In my experience, when people talk about people seeing heterosexuality as the default, they mean that people assume everyone is heterosexual unless they are specifically informed otherwise. Or that heterosexuality is the fundamentally 'correct/normal' way to be and everything else is just an aberration. Neither of which is a helpful assumption to make.
And yes, as JC said, it's quite possible to have asexual ancestors. And gay ancestors.
Heterosexuality is the more common orientation. The majority of humans are heterosexual. The mistake here is assuming any other orientation is then not normal or natural.
No one should assume a default for anyone else.
Isn't that what I said? Or were you agreeing with me?
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I dunno, I kind of like the idea of people being chummy to each other on the street. I am kind of shyly experimenting with being that way myself. For one thing, it can help dissolve the idea that any unsolicited comment is meant to be predatory-- if random cheery conversation is happening all the time, people will cease to be surprised by random cheery conversation.
Where I live random, cheery conversation in the street is the norm. When passing it's a 'hello' or 'good morning', if standing together due to being held up for some reason it's a chat. If you both have dogs it's almost obligatory to stop and ask the dog's name, age etc and chat about them.
Of course 'she's lovely' or 'he's a handsome boy' is a common comment.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
Folks, as you're well aware, the issue of homosexuality belongs in Dead Horses. If you wish to discuss this aspect in more detail, start something there. There's plenty to discuss with regard to the OP without going into debates about the "(ab)normality" of sexuality here. Or, for the irascible, Hell is always an option. Thank you.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
But this also takes time, as people have layers and layers of personality in them, which may gradually emerge (or not).
Time-- key point. The deep character observation you describe can't be pulled off by glancing at someone-- and definitely not by glancing only at how they look, instead of at how they comport themselves.
Yes, well, it's like any relationship, people tend to gradually peel off their layers, and reveal more. It also takes trust of course, which is not automatic at all.
I suppose many people have a kind of outer form, or persona, and then there is stuff behind that (usually). Well, I still get surprised by myself, never mind, others.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
But this also takes time, as people have layers and layers of personality in them, which may gradually emerge (or not). Now I'm beginning to wish I hadn't quit, it's so interesting.
I am going to sound like a complete, judgmental b!^@#, but I would qualify that as some people have layers. It truly is not a value judgement, though. Being layered or complex is not better, just different.
I don't think you're a b!@#, or if you are, that's just the top layer!
I guess it's possible that some people have no hidden stuff, but it's unusual. Of course, the exciting stuff is hidden from yourself - spooky!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
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And another you ought not to cross without an invitation is making any personal comments at all to strangers you pass in the street.
I dunno, I kind of like the idea of people being chummy to each other on the street. I am kind of shyly experimenting with being that way myself. For one thing, it can help dissolve the idea that any unsolicited comment is meant to be predatory-- if random cheery conversation is happening all the time, people will cease to be surprised by random cheery conversation.
Yes, cheery conversation with stangers, definitely! Though in England it tends only to work in pubs, long-distance trains, when people are drunk, during disasters, or in certain Northern cities (most notably Sheffield, where it is hard to wait at a bus-stop without hearing the story of someone's life, but probably South Yorkshire in general. And Lancashire as well. On the other hand there are parts of rural North Yorkshire where you aren't considered worthy of notice unless you have lived in the village for over thirty years and at least two of your grandparents were born locally)
But.... I don't really think making comments about someone's apperarance or attractiveness counts as cheery conversation. Too directly personal, too much chance for offence. Better to talk about other things.
[ 18. January 2014, 11:57: Message edited by: ken ]
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But.... I don't really think making comments about someone's apperarance or attractiveness counts as cheery conversation. Too directly personal, too much chance for offence. Better to talk about other things.
Agreed.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Amika
Shipmate
# 15785
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fineline:
For myself, I make an effort to look clean, presentable, and wear appropriate clothes for the setting, such as for work. I don't, however, wear make up. I have a simple haircut that I don't have to style.
Ditto.
As for make up, I've never worn it and I never will, and I am now over fifty. I can't stand the stuff on my face, and I really don't care what anyone thinks. It never even occurs to me that people might think it strange - although reading this thread has reminded me that I'm in a tiny minority.
It really irks me that apparently, for women, make up is considered to be almost as essential as clothing. It is recommended that we wear it for interviews, etc. Why should my chances of getting a job depend on my face being plastered in expensive guck? Even customer-facing jobs should not require make up as 'essential wear'.
[ 18. January 2014, 20:32: Message edited by: Amika ]
Posts: 147 | From: Ingerland | Registered: Aug 2010
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amika:
As for make up, I've never worn it and I never will, and I am now over fifty.
I'm happily married to a no make up wearer. It doesn't bother me, in fact I seldom notice if a woman's face is made up unless it is overdone. Iy does not bother me.
Actually it does bother me as I dislike the taste of make up.
[fixed code, braving TMI]
[ 19. January 2014, 06:20: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Last ever sig ...
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
The idea that women who wear lots of makeup are shallow is just as bad. I wear makeup every day, and not particularly subtle stuff, because I enjoy it. I love applying makeup, it's like colouring in but on my face ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
If anyone told me to stop wearing makeup I'd tell them to stuff it, but if anyone told me to start wearing it if I didn't already they would get the same!
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
I get people on the train looking round at me. Usually people who have watched Breaking Bad.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Hilda of Whitby
Shipmate
# 7341
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
I get people on the train looking round at me. Usually people who have watched Breaking Bad.
HEISENBERG!!!! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Re the topic of the thread: I rarely comment on people's looks and when I do it tends to be about attire--'nice tie!' 'that color looks great on you!' and the like.
When I was younger I would get comments and cat-calls from men on the street from time to time. It always made me feel uncomfortable and dehumanized. Now that I am close to 60, I am quite invisible, and I enjoy that.
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"Born with the gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad."
Posts: 412 | From: Nickel City | Registered: Jun 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But.... I don't really think making comments about someone's apperarance or attractiveness counts as cheery conversation. Too directly personal, too much chance for offence. Better to talk about other things.
Agreed.
... Wait, you said above that comments about appearance were common where you live, and it didn't seem like you were complaining.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by ken:
But.... I don't really think making comments about someone's apperarance or attractiveness counts as cheery conversation. Too directly personal, too much chance for offence. Better to talk about other things.
Agreed.
... Wait, you said above that comments about appearance were common where you live, and it didn't seem like you were complaining.
Yes they are, amongst people who know each other, work colleagues etc. Not when meeting someone and chatting in the street/out on a walk.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
OK, fair enough. That is a good distinction.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
Women's bodies and appearance are a subject for public discourse in a way that men's bodies are not. Even women discuss other women's appearance in a different manner than they discuss men's bodies. This is so internalized and automatic that most people don't even notice it except when it becomes annoying or disturbing. Look at all the magazines devoted to nit-picking famous women's bodies -- why is it so surprising that ordinary women's bodies get talked about as well? It's also why the street harassment being discussed next door is pretty much everywhere, in one form or another.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Funny you said that-- I ran across one of those "celebs without makeup" articles that was titled something like "Shocking photos of celebrities, blah blah bla."
For the record, except for a couple cases of bad plastic surgery victims, the dressed down photos of celebs only turned them (for me, anyway) from impossibly intimidating demigoddesses to people I could cheerily sit down and have a coffee with, if invited. Most of the ladies looked cute as hell without makeup. The only shock for me was that I experienced bouncy maternal feelings for Beyonce, who I have never really cared for. She looked so... fresh! clean-scrubbed! cute! She had a little hoodie on and jeans and I just wanted to hug her to bits!
There was some explanatory paragraph reassuring the reader that the photos were not intended to shame the women, but merely to show they were just gals. I asked in the comments, "In that case, why is the article not titled,'Reassuring photos of celebs without...'"
[ 19. January 2014, 19:46: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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