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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Has Christianity become psychologically exhausting?
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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091
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Posted
On the Church Growth thread, I exhumed an old thread from Oblivion, and reading through it again I noticed and remembered the following comment by M. :
quote:
One reason, probably the greatest reason, I still go to church at all is that at a particular time of stress, I found the 8am service was a quiet space, where I was allowed to be quiet and not really interact with anyone, even God.
I found the comment interesting, because of the surprising addition of the last two words: even God. We may think that it's a good idea to get away from human relationships in order to move closer to God, and to enrich our relationship with God. But this comment made me wonder that sometimes even our relationship with God can be stressful - or rather a wrong view of our relationship with Him. In fact, I wonder whether we should even use the word 'relationship' when referring to our connection with God, because of the baggage and the subtle rules that are implied by it.
Having been involved with Protestant evangelical Christianity for most of my life (including employment in a Christian organisation for many years), I feel spiritually burnt out, to be honest. The Christian life seems at times to be utterly exhausting - not so much physically, but psychologically: the endless meetings, which seem to lead nowhere, the sermonising, where you haven't had a chance to get your head round last week's sermon before the next one is offered up. The latest spiritual fads and techniques are a merry-go-round - usually of failure. The latest prophecy or "word from the Lord" about how this year is the "Year of such and such" within the economy of God creates a kind of inner stress to make sure that we are obeying sufficiently, so that we don't "miss the boat" and fall short of "God's plans". How we need to fervently seek Him to be part of the current "move of God" etc etc...
And then there is the great army of well meaning Christian counsellors who have their multifarious diagnoses of every conceivable spiritual condition. Frankly, one can't keep up with it all!
For someone who has suffered from mental illness and nervous problems (as I have in the past, with vestiges of it still with me in the present), such constant change is agitating. I can understand why some people just want to go and sit in a large cathedral and spend an hour just gazing at a stained glass window. I can understand why people don't want to pray, because they perceive prayer as an exhausting ordeal - "doing battle for the Lord in prayer". Sometimes when I read accounts of certain charismatically inclined Christians spending time in prayer I actually feel exhausted just thinking about it, never mind doing it!
Jesus said "my yoke is easy and my burden is light". In Isaiah 28:12 we read about the "rest and refreshing". How can this become a reality in our Christian lives?
I wonder at times whether a lot of Christians - and interested non-Christians - are just completely whacked, and just want the Church to be a place where they can find some kind of peace and stability. But a declining Church may not be able to offer that, because "we need people to do jobs in the Church to keep the place running..." So any poor sucker who darkens their door is soon 'encouraged' to be more participatory, which is likely to send the stressed out and broken person running for the door!
Do you think that Christianity has become just too complicated and burdensome?
If so, how do we simplify it?
How can we reduce it down to simple and refreshing spiritual disciplines?
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
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Raptor Eye
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# 16649
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Posted
Jesus went up a mountain to pray, all night at times. The busy-ness is all very well, but sometimes it gets in the way of service to God, and unless God is the architect, we try to build in vain.
More prayer and less activity is healthy, despite having to run the gauntlet of the criticisers, imv.
Primarily, churches should be houses of prayer.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
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tomsk
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# 15370
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Posted
Rest/sabbath can be a discipline. Carving out time and saying no. Overbusyness can cause burn out. We can also end up with a religion based on effort.
Malcolm Duncan say that his life looked very busy but was based on a slow rhythm spending a couple of hours in prayer every day. I think Desmond Tutu said he was so busy he could only spend two hours in silent prayer every day. If we go from a place of rest in God we will hopefully not get burnt out.
I pray you feel refreshed soon.
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
Etymological Evangelical
I can imagine many of the commentators on this website advising you to start going to any cathedral service. Or if a suitable parish church is closer, there's 8am Holy Communion, or Evensong, which is the one I like. These services are very soothing, and you won't feel that you have to get 'involved'. For me as a non-CofE person who's often been very busy in church this is quite a novel feeling.
I don't think these services are a solution to the broader theological and cultural problems of much of contemporary church life, but they have their uses.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
If it hasn't, then you're missing something.
Protestant evangelical Christianity - there's your problem EE.
It's FULL of expectations. That cannot - ever - be met. And if they are, that's even worse: you're missing something.
Peace my friend.
SvitlanaV2 said my thoughts before I read hers.
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Love wins
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HCH
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# 14313
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Posted
I doubt that Christianity, for those who take it seriously, is any more emotionally exhausting than it has always been. We all know why it can be so.
It is nice when Christians--including clergy--can say to other Christians "You're doing okay" or "You're doing better", when this is true, not so the hearer can then slack off but so the hearer can then feel at least a little bit appreciated.
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740
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Posted
I have a lot of sympathy for the OP, and I started to find a lot of things exhausting a few years ago, including religion. My solution in the end, as pydseybare indicated, was to stop them. I didn't find this easy, as I am kind of addicted to doing and thinking and so on, but I am a lot easier on myself now. Or I leave myself alone more.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I've found it helpful under major stress to just go to a quiet place where no one can find me or bug me, say to God, "I'm here," and just sit there. Do nothing, say nothing, pray nothing. It isn't all about doing--some of it is just plain spending time with the one you love. And that doesn't have to involve doing or saying anything at all. Even mentally.
I always feel refreshed and much better than I have any right to feel after one of these times.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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John D. Ward
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# 1378
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.
I would like to believe it, but it does not agree with Jesus' well known words in Matthew 16:24.
" Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. "
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
I steward at church, which means keeping the church open during the day for people just like yourself who need space to come into church quietly and light a candle, pray, think, chill, whatever. There are even books available in a church library if you want to read quietly. It would be wonderful if all churches could offer this facility; sometimes the ones which proclaim 'ALL WELCOME!' in large letters by the door are the ones which keep the door firmly locked except for a very lively couple of hours on a Sunday morning. Find out the churches which are open during daylight hours in your area, and go and visit them!
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Belle Ringer
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# 13379
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Posted
No one can live up to the law.
Some churches seem to think the OT laws have been replaced by NT laws that are just as numerous and strict. So, God can't bless you unless you tithe, you have to be in church Sunday morning, etc., and women are under even more legal burdens than men. Always the "God can't bless you if you fail". That is fear based instead of love and joy based.
The good news is God loves you. Period.
Jesus sets you free indeed. Don't come back under a yoke of bondage.
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Invictus_88
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# 15352
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
Stop going to church. Stop going to all the meetings, stop worrying about all the stuff that you are 'supposed' to believe in.
If it is too much effort (and it sounds like it might be for you at the moment), stop putting yourself through it.
Definitely. Jesus definitely told us our calling would be easy, and that if it felt demanding then we should quit.
O_o?
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Martin60
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# 368
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Posted
Calling to what?
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Love wins
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pydseybare
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# 16184
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Invictus_88:
Definitely. Jesus definitely told us our calling would be easy, and that if it felt demanding then we should quit.
O_o?
I'm comfortable believing that the burdens Jesus demands are because we're giving ourselves on serving our neighbour rather than getting broken on the structures of church. But your mileage may vary.
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The Midge
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# 2398
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Posted
Christianity is an impossible religion. Out goes the law books and the do's and don'ts, because keeping the rules isn't enough. In comes an impossible straining after a rightness of attitude and living by principles of perfect love. Here we are being saved in the gap between conversion and resurrection.
The Church is a mere foreshadow of heaven. It is a holiday brochure that actually shows the unfinished hotel, predicts the air traffic control strikes and volcanic ash clouds, is searching for lost luggage and treating the Delhi Belly. It speaks a foreign language half the time too. I don't blame you for wishing you weren't here.
It might be worth you trying contemplation and retreats. Maybe a bit of Ignatian spirituality. Maybe just a long walk if you can find somewhere dry enough.
'Landmarks' by Magaret Silf is a good place to start. She talks about digging down from the surface situation, through the inner how about how we deal with life through the who of our character and past decision all the way to a core at the centre where we find God. It vey hard work [like drilling through igneous bed rock] and a project I'm still working on. There we can find our 'God Seed'.
Changing external circumstances, Silf suggests, may only create temporary relief. Tap our roots into God and we can bloom in our true purpose despite the external circumstances.
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Some days you are the fly.
On other days you are the windscreen.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.
I would like to believe it, but it does not agree with Jesus' well known words in Matthew 16:24.
" Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. "
What about "anything that does not come from faith is sin"?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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shadeson
Shipmate
# 17132
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EE:
How can we reduce it down to simple and refreshing spiritual disciplines?
Your last word in the above points up the problem. Despite the word 'refreshing' it almost implies a routine.
I was initiated into Christianity with the idea that our mission was to save humanity. I now think it best to leave that mystery to God.
"One thing have I desired of the Lord; that will I seek after: that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of the Lord and to inquire in His temple." (Ps 27)
We join in where we can, to be backstops for social deprivation, but in the end our own spiritual life is the most important thing. Try to get out and see the beauty the Lord has made and when you do, tell Him how much it means. Meditate, in the temple of your mind, on the mysteries of why some are happy some are sad, but don't worry too much about fixing it.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Midge:
.... The Church is a mere foreshadow of heaven. It is a holiday brochure that actually shows the unfinished hotel, predicts the air traffic control strikes and volcanic ash clouds, is searching for lost luggage and treating the Delhi Belly. It speaks a foreign language half the time too. I don't blame you for wishing you weren't here. ...
Brilliant. That gets three ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) s
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by John D. Ward:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Anything that becomes a burden is not from Christ.
I would like to believe it, but it does not agree with Jesus' well known words in Matthew 16:24.
" Then Jesus told his disciples, “If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. "
Denying self and taking up the cross is the road to a freedom and is not a burden.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
In any area where I have a lot of emotional investment there also tends to be a large investment of time, effort and energy. For me, at least, that can easily become exhausting. Moreover, I can easily spend so much time doing the time, effort and energy thing that I miss out on the actual thing itself.
So it was with me for God/Christianity.
When I sought help one of the things that got pounded into my old pudding head was that we are Human Beings not Human Doings. This is especially the case with God. God sees us as we are - with no illusions - and loves us as we are, not as we do.
While, again to me, there is a certain amount of doing that is attached to acting out my belief in God, I am under no illusion (anymore) that my relationship with God depends on what I am doing about that relationship in a physical sense.
I grow closer to God when I take the time away from doing to concentrate on what God is in my life and how I can strengthen and deepen my relationship with God in a spiritual sense.
I get along better with God when I remember that God in in charge of the universe, not me. When I remember that God is not only in charge, but also does a better job of it than I could, I leave room for me to have a relationship with God that is not dependent on what I am doing. It is much less exhausting.
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh yes it is! ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
It's less of a burden than the alternative, at the very least. The wages of sin and all that.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
God is doing a better job than we could?
How?
With what?
We are the means. He can't do better.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
God is doing a better job than we could?
How?
With what?
We are the means. He can't do better.
St. Teresa of Avila certainly agrees.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Truly scary of course. The Church is Plan A. There is no Plan B.
Mind you, "Church" might not necessarily have the membership any of us assumes it has ...
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
EE, we've had our disagreements but I think you're spot on here ...
I'm not sure I'd go as far as pydseybare and others and suggesting that non-church attendance/involvement is the answer ...
But I can see what they're getting at.
As several posters have said, there are other ways of engaging with the faith in the context of a faith community that doesn't involve a lot of 'doing' and busy-ness ... contemplative prayer retreats, monasteries - even the Quiet Garden Movement (yes, there is one, but I bet it doesn't have a stand at either Greenbelt or New Wine) ...
I can only speak for myself and I find a 'daily office' useful - although I don't do it every single day ...
There's something, I think, in what Barnabas62 alluded to on another thread - the Lindisfarne thing - about the tidal rhythm ... the tide comes in and the community is closed off - the tide goes out and the way is open to cross the causeway and engage with society at large ...
There's something in that old monastic rhythm, I think.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
God is doing a better job than we could?
How?
With what?
We are the means. He can't do better.
I think there are good psychological reasons for telling God that he isn't doing a good job. I appreciate that it is an oxymoron - on the basis that you might also believe that he is the almighty creator God.
I think he can take it. I absolutely don't believe that slamming the door and walking away is a bad thing in some circumstances - indeed, trying to argue someone out of this course of action can be crass or sometimes even damaging.
Of course, I'm not giving advice to anyone's individual situation, which they must work out for themselves. But I think a lot of damage is caused by Christians trying to pretend that they're not having real emotions (such as grief, loss, anxiety, disappointment) and trying to force themselves to accept something that their psyche is unable to cope with.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Yes, hear, hear ... or 'Amen' to that, Pydseybare ... there's too much 'ought' and 'should' around in some circles.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Invictus_88
Definitely. Jesus definitely told us our calling would be easy, and that if it felt demanding then we should quit.
I won't criticise you for using sarcasm, because I am often one of the worst culprits, but reading your comment reminded me of a certain (in my view, erroneous) interpretation of a couple of verses in Revelation 3 (vv. 15-16):
quote:
“I know your works, that you are neither cold nor hot. I could wish you were cold or hot. So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth."
This is often understood according to what I call the "spiritual thermometer interpretation", in which 'hot' means "really committed and on fire for God", 'cold' means you're an unbeliever, and "lukewarm" means that you are a less than fully committed Christian. The interpretation tells us that Jesus would prefer someone to be an unbeliever than a half-baked Christian.
I have come to realise that this interpretation is entirely false, and it has been used as a weapon to manipulate Christians into ever greater exertions for the Church: "If you don't measure up as a wholehearted and committed disciple, then God will vomit you out of his mouth!"
The, in my view, correct interpretation is based on the realisation that both 'hot' and 'cold' represent spiritual blessing: the former heals, the latter refreshes. 'Lukewarm' therefore falls short of both of these. This makes sense of Jesus' comment that he would prefer someone to be hot or cold rather than lukewarm. Laodicea was situated near two other cities: Hierapolis to the north and Colossae to the east. The former was a spa with hot springs and the latter had a spring of cold water. Laodicea, on the other hand, did not have a natural source of water and so it was piped from these other two cities and arrived lukewarm. What Jesus was saying would have been obvious to his hearers: the water of Laodicea had neither healing nor refreshing properties unlike that of the other two cities.
Now, in the light of this, what does 'lukewarm' represent? It's a kind of spirituality which neither heals nor refreshes. It is therefore an oppressive form of religion. The very guilt-trip Christianity, which claims to challenge so called 'lukewarm' Christians, is actually itself lukewarm Christianity. The very teachers and preachers who seem to delight in making heavy demands of their flock, are actually half-hearted. That is why they are legalistic. They fall short of the grace of God. They are not committed, because if they were, they would be healing and refreshing people in the grace of God, instead of making everyone feel condemned and discouraged. Being made to feel that you are always falling short can hardly be called a healing or refreshing experience!
So when people try to dump a guilt-trip on other Christians, they had better heed the warning of Revelation 3:16.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
EE, maybe it's because I'm listening to the heartbreakingly yearning, beautiful London Grammar, If You Wait album, but you're included.
And now I've softened you up I'm going to kick you in the bollocks ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
You're right. But stop projecting. This isn't them. There is no them. This is us. We're ALL guilty, we really are. Even when we're not, we must embrace. And I'm crap at it as Mousethief and IngoB and all of you know.
I read you a long time ago. Got you. And I was right. You remember. Now you've most courageously come out. You're family now mate. Closer.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Hmmm ... EE, I suspect that it isn't Christianity that has become psychologically exhausting but a particular brand of it ...
I'm not by any means suggesting that other traditions don't have problems ... Catholic Guilt, the Orthodox tendency towards Phyletism, the liberal tendency to not believing in anything very much at all ... and so on and so on ...
But I do think that 'enthusiastic' and charismatic-tinged evangelical Christianity has an inherent tendency towards burn-out as it's impossible to keep up the expected level of spiritual intensity for any length of time ...
Evan Roberts was knackered after 18 months of the Welsh Revival ...
I'm not suggesting that you're living on a knife-edge of charismatic intensity but I do suspect that your - and my - evangelical charismatic backgrounds can and do inculcate guilt feelings and a sense of urgency that can't be sustained over lengthy periods ...
It's a bit like rave-culture - every high is followed by a low ...
Burn-out and spiritual depression follow as night follows day.
The best antidote is to find another paradigm. One that isn't so intense and prone to swings and peaks and troughs.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
Hmmm ... EE, I suspect that it isn't Christianity that has become psychologically exhausting but a particular brand of it ...
I think you are reading the title of the thread in a rather literal (dare I say, woodenly literal ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) ) way.
I think all brands of Christianity have a tendency to become psychologically wearing, as you rightly implied in the thread you recently posted.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
We are the brands.
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Love wins
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Well yes - yes to EE and yes to Martin ...
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
I think you're right, most certainly, EE - all traditions can have their inherent pitfalls and pratfalls ... we have to learn to steer our way around them. 'T will ever be thus, whatever 'brand' or tradition we are involved with.
That said, I do think that there is a more holistic rhythm within some traditions which, if practised correctly, can work against burn-out and psychological exhaustion to a large extent ...
But yes, no tradition is immune from that ... and as Martin suggests, we are ourselves part of the problem ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Hmmm ... EE, I suspect that it isn't Christianity that has become psychologically exhausting but a particular brand of it ...
I'm not by any means suggesting that other traditions don't have problems ... Catholic Guilt, the Orthodox tendency towards Phyletism, the liberal tendency to not believing in anything very much at all ... and so on and so on ...
But I do think that 'enthusiastic' and charismatic-tinged evangelical Christianity has an inherent tendency towards burn-out as it's impossible to keep up the expected level of spiritual intensity for any length of time ...
Evan Roberts was knackered after 18 months of the Welsh Revival ...
I'm not suggesting that you're living on a knife-edge of charismatic intensity but I do suspect that your - and my - evangelical charismatic backgrounds can and do inculcate guilt feelings and a sense of urgency that can't be sustained over lengthy periods ...
It's a bit like rave-culture - every high is followed by a low ...
Burn-out and spiritual depression follow as night follows day.
The best antidote is to find another paradigm. One that isn't so intense and prone to swings and peaks and troughs.
The (conservative) Reformed-influenced kind of evangelicalism also has significant pressures - being impossibly well-read and knowledgeable on theology, so many Quiet Times you barely speak all day, being purer and more pious than any Puritan ever, etc etc.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
If your church of whatever kind is struggling and trying to manage decline - as a huge number of British churches are - that'll be psychologically exhausting for the people involved.
I don't understand whether charismatic church workers are stressed out due to church failure or success, but if it's the latter you should console yourself that if you do choose to walk away, there will be other people around to do the work. In declining churches, key people walking away may mean one more step towards closure in the long term. I don't know if they feel guilty once they've gone, but they'll probably be relieved that it's not their problem any more.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Good for Nothing
Apprentice
# 17722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
Stop going to church. Stop going to all the meetings, stop worrying about all the stuff that you are 'supposed' to believe in.
If it is too much effort (and it sounds like it might be for you at the moment), stop putting yourself through it.
Posts: 20 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Jun 2013
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Welcome aboard, Good for Nothing.
I'm not quite sure what you were trying to do there other than quote pydseybare's post, but hello anyay. You can practice posting Ship-style on this thread and introduce yourself here.
Apart from that, please read our Ten Commandments and board posting guidelines, and enjoy the voyage.
Eutychus
Purgatory Host
[ 17. February 2014, 08:42: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
One Sunday while on vacation DP and I found ourselves in a church whose newly minted young pastor was the most depressing presence -- from the morning announcements to the sermon, all he could talk about was our denomination's declining membership and internal squabbles, financial troubles and closing rural churches. He wasn't trying to rally the faithful; he wasn't scolding us; he wasn't offering us any hope that God might be doing a new thing in the Church even while some of the old things were passing away; he wasn't even on point with the lectionary readings; it was just a glum recitation of every demographic downer coming out of the home office. I understand how a late 20-something saddled with grad school debt and seeing an uncertain vocational future is going to have some anxiety issues, but -- yeesh; it sounded like something he should have been talking to his bishop or therapist about, not the innocent folks in the pews waiting to be "shown some Jesus." It was just sad; and if he does that kind of thing week after week I can see how it would start oppressing people.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Good for Nothing
Apprentice
# 17722
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Welcome aboard, Good for Nothing.
I'm not quite sure what you were trying to do there other than quote pydseybare's post, but hello anyay. You can practice posting Ship-style on this thread and introduce yourself here.
Apart from that, please read our Ten Commandments and board posting guidelines, and enjoy the voyage.
Eutychus
Purgatory Host
Thanks Eutychus for your welcome. I'm not quite sure how this thing works. I just wanted to add that as a retired, unattached, mostly unbelieving, Anglican priest I have found that simply stopping leaves me with a craving, an emptiness, that only religious seriousness ever gets close to addressing.
Like Philip Larkin "too selfish, withdrawn, / And easily bored to love (God).
More later.
Posts: 20 | From: Lancashire | Registered: Jun 2013
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Welcome from me as well, Good for Nothing.
(And what a strange-looking welcome that is, to be sure).
You'll get used in time to the funny little buttons which enable us to post quotes and links - and if in doubt, do make use of the practice thread.
All sorts find a home here for exploring their views, opinion and the lessons they've learned. I hope you'll find that too. It can be quite disturbing when you first join - which fits in well with our unrestful ethos.
Barnabas62
Purgatory Host
[ 18. February 2014, 08:51: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804
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Posted
At times like this, maybe Stylities and his pillar is beginning to look interesting....
Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
There are some clever names on SoF (I lacked the imagination to think of one so pinched Montaigne's motto) but Good for Nothing is interestingly ambiguous.
Like Philip Larkin "too selfish, withdrawn, / And easily bored to love (God).
To rewrite Larkin, you've found "a semi-serious ship on semi-serious sea". Mostly.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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