homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Repurposing of churches

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.    
Source: (consider it) Thread: Repurposing of churches
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313

 - Posted      Profile for HCH   Email HCH   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have sometimes encountered situations in which a building which was at one time a church was no longer in use as such and had become a private home or a business. (For instance, there is such a shop in Tobermory, Mull.) How common an event is this? Should such a building be deconsecrated? If your home had formerly been a church, would that affect your own attitudes about your home or your practices? What would be a suitable later use for a church building?
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
How common an event is this?
If you're including cases where a church becomes a house of worship for a non-Christian religious group(and hence, no longer a church), off the top of my head I can think of about half a dozen instances from my hometown alone.

My neighbourhood has an old Lutheran Church, one of those elongated triangle things that were popular mid-20th Century, that got sold to the Ahmadiyya Muslims. And a nearby Catholic church got converted into some new-age outlet.

And this used to be a Unitarian church, before it was sold to an architect who converted it into his home. Some of the interior shots are rather interesting.

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
On the opposite end of the aesthetic spectrum from that architect's house, I'm guessing that this cash-register shop , also from Edmonton, used to be a church.

The top is another example of that elongated pyramid thing I was referencing earlier. Does anyone happen to know what that style is called?

Back to the Unitarian house for a sec, I think that this is a particularly lovely shot.

--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772

 - Posted      Profile for Palimpsest   Email Palimpsest   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
When I lived in Boston several movie theaters had been converted from churches, including one that had originally been built as a spiritualist tabernacle.

I did a tour of some New York theaters once, and several of the neighborhood movie palaces seating 2000 people had been converted to churches.

In Seattle, many of the movie theaters were made from fraternal order lodge buildings and a women's club. Apparently in the twenties people were desperate to get out of the house even if it was raining.

Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yeah, movie theatres would be a good use for old churches.

This old Salvation Army "citadel" later became a live theatre, and for the last few decades has been a nightclub, catering to the alternative market. Apparently, Green Day played there back in the early 90s.

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
HCH:

You may find this article of interest.

--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

 - Posted      Profile for Og, King of Bashan     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
For a while, old downtown Gothic revival style churches were being turned into nightclubs. I don't know if that still happens.

--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

 - Posted      Profile for Og, King of Bashan     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
While looking for evidence of the nightclub trend, I found one that has been re-purposed as a http://www.nycavalon
nightclub.com/index-1.html strip club (NSFW, as you might imagine). The mind boggles.


[Quite right that it's NSFW. Link broken - Eliab]

[ 14. February 2014, 07:25: Message edited by: Eliab ]

--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
West40 Lofts, Toronto

--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
While looking for evidence of the nightclub trend, I found one that has been re-purposed as a strip club (NSFW, as you might imagine). The mind boggles.

There was some old church in Edmonton that was later used by the local Crowleyite congregation. I don't know if they had bought it or were renting, but they advertised themselves on the exterior.

What really ticked me off was when the church was torn down for condos, the city felt obligated to put up a plaque telling everyone about how historical it was. Even though the building itself was apprently not worth saving.

Would you happen to know what denomination that strip-club was? I can't find the info on the site.


[Quote edited to break link - Eliab]

[ 14. February 2014, 07:26: Message edited by: Eliab ]

--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

 - Posted      Profile for Og, King of Bashan     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There was an Episcopal church somewhere downtown in Manhattan that was turned into a nightclub, although I think I have heard of a Presbyterian church that went the same way.

In Denver, our former church nightclub was an Episcopal congregation that left over a dead horse.

--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
There was an Episcopal church somewhere downtown in Manhattan that was turned into a nightclub

Perhaps Limelight, nee Church Of The Holy Communion? There is a photo of it at that CNN link above.

[ 13. February 2014, 23:48: Message edited by: Stetson ]

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bullfrog.

Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014

 - Posted      Profile for Bullfrog.   Email Bullfrog.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
I have sometimes encountered situations in which a building which was at one time a church was no longer in use as such and had become a private home or a business. (For instance, there is such a shop in Tobermory, Mull.) How common an event is this? Should such a building be deconsecrated? If your home had formerly been a church, would that affect your own attitudes about your home or your practices? What would be a suitable later use for a church building?

I saw one walking through a neighborhood in Chicago that had been turned into a condo. My impression was that it was kind of depressing.

I imagine if I lived in one, I might think it was special at first, but having a family, eventually it was just become another place my family happens to live in. Of course, I haven't done this, but that's my imagination.

--------------------
Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg

Posts: 7522 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
I saw one walking through a neighborhood in Chicago that had been turned into a condo. My impression was that it was kind of depressing.
I know what you're saying. But personally, from an architectural viewpoint, I would consider it more depressing if the church were torn down.

Even if it wasn't a particularly old, unique or beautiful building, I'd still want to keep it up. Churches by and large tend to be built in styles that distinguish them somewhat from other structures, and it would be sad to lose that.

--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The 'repurposing' of churches buildings is very common in the UK. I can think of churches that have become mosques, Sikh gurdwaras, apartments, mechanics' worskhops, bars, nightclubs, shops, warehouses, restaurants, 'character homes', etc. Some churches are, of course, bought for use by other Christian denominations. Some churches have listed status, which means they're of particular architectural value. This limits how they can be used.

Non-conformist churches have declined so much here that it really isn't possible for their laypeople or clergy to be hung up on the 'suitability' of conversion to this or that purpose - they just need to get rid of burdensome buildings. The CofE and RCC are more restricted in what they can do with church buildings, so I understand.

[ 14. February 2014, 00:17: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

 - Posted      Profile for Og, King of Bashan     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
There was an Episcopal church somewhere downtown in Manhattan that was turned into a nightclub

Perhaps Limelight, nee Church Of The Holy Communion? There is a photo of it at that CNN link above.
I think that is it- at least, the building was Avalon at one point, although Wiki reports that Avalon closed in 2007, and the building is now a high-end shopping center. Limelight apparently closed after frequent raids brought on by it's notoriety as a good place to score drugs. Ironically, the diocese sold it to a group that ran it as a drug rehab clinic, who then sold it to the night club folks.

There is an abandoned church on my dog walk route with a vacant lot next door. My wife and I like to joke that some day we are going to buy it and re-purpose it as a commune and urban farm for recent hippie college graduates. (Never mind the rent, man, you can pay us in stories and baskets of kale!)

--------------------
"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502

 - Posted      Profile for Prester John   Email Prester John   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
While wasting away an afternoon in the Mission District in San Francisco I stumbled upon the Buddhist temple mentioned here. You could see the statute of the Buddha from across the street. They still had the stone corner with Ephesians 2:20 quoted in German.

I know the church building of my childhood eventually became a mosque for use by the Somali community in the area as well.

Posts: 884 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814

 - Posted      Profile for Galloping Granny   Email Galloping Granny   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Up and down New Zealand, disused churches have become private homes or craft shops.

GG

--------------------
The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113

Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047

 - Posted      Profile for Arethosemyfeet   Email Arethosemyfeet   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There are a lot of old chapels and churches here that have been converted to private houses - and others that have been intentionally left to rot rather than be put to another use. In other places I've seen a former church converted into a training and accommodation centre (foyer) for homeless young people, which seems an excellent solution.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

 - Posted      Profile for Boogie     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
There are several 'repurposed' churches round here - mostly to mosques, but some to private houses and flats.

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

 - Posted      Profile for Eutychus   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
There are several 'repurposed' churches round here - mostly to mosques

I've visited this one - repurposed in 1570.

The biggest problem seems to be the nave not facing towards Mecca, which results in a strange skew-whiff arrangement.

--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184

 - Posted      Profile for pydseybare   Email pydseybare   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Is it a myth that ancient churches are pointing towards Jerusalem?

If not, that's quite unfortunate, given that Muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem (or that might also be mythical).

--------------------
"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."

Posts: 812 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged
Bob Two-Owls
Shipmate
# 9680

 - Posted      Profile for Bob Two-Owls         Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I still bend my knee and make the odd sign of the cross at the former St James in Normanton, Derby.

Alter Rock Climbing Centre

Old churches are much sought after for climbing centres - high ceilings, solid masonry, large open spaces for bouldering walls etc.

Posts: 1262 | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
TurquoiseTastic

Fish of a different color
# 8978

 - Posted      Profile for TurquoiseTastic   Email TurquoiseTastic   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
There are several 'repurposed' churches round here - mostly to mosques

I've visited this one - repurposed in 1570.

The biggest problem seems to be the nave not facing towards Mecca, which results in a strange skew-whiff arrangement.

The same problem occurs to a lesser extent in the most famous repurposed church of all!
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005  |  IP: Logged
Circuit Rider

Ship's Itinerant
# 13088

 - Posted      Profile for Circuit Rider   Email Circuit Rider   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Book of Occasional Services (TEC) has an order for secularizing a previously consecrated building. The Bishop celebrates the life of the church, and declares it "deconsecrated and secularized," no longer subject to his canonical jurisdiction.

--------------------
I felt my heart strangely warmed ... and realised I had spilt hot coffee all over myself.

Posts: 715 | From: Somewhere in the Heart of Dixie | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

 - Posted      Profile for L'organist   Author's homepage   Email L'organist   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Some older cathedral cities have huge numbers of churches so can be a good place to find 'repurposed' buildings.

Chichester has churches that are now: a wine bar/restaurant; a private house; an art gallery; a religious bookshop.

In Chester former churches are now an education centre, an ecumenical centre, a heritage centre and, of course, the Guildhall is a former church.

In Gloucester there's a good wine bar in a former nunnery and the Golden Fleece incorporates part of the old Greyfriars.

--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
ButchCassidy
Shipmate
# 11147

 - Posted      Profile for ButchCassidy   Email ButchCassidy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
By way of light relief from this horribly depressing subject, I know quite a lot of former cinemas, music halls etc in London that have been converted into churches, including the Hippodrome Golders Green

http://www.elshaddai.org.uk/3in1.htm

They tend towards the prosperity gospel end but you can't have everything.

Posts: 104 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2006  |  IP: Logged
leo
Shipmate
# 1458

 - Posted      Profile for leo   Author's homepage   Email leo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've been to the 'closing' service of two churches.

One was a eucharist which ended with a procession to the west door and a commissioning to follow where the Spirit led. The vicar then, inappropriately in my view, opened champagne in the fonr.
The other was merely a final evensong.

In neither case was there any deconsecration, though someone from these boards sent me a copy of a service of deconsecration.

[ 14. February 2014, 13:24: Message edited by: leo ]

--------------------
My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Methodist church I attended closed, and there was a closing service that I helped to organise, but no mention was made of 'de-consecration'.

Among Methodists, and no doubt some other Non-conformists, there seems to be a somewhat muddled theology of church buildings. We still have a vague notion of 'the house of God' and a sense of hired halls as something lesser, yet when we sell our churches they automatically lose any aura of holiness without any specific prayers or rituals to that effect. I'm not entirely sure how this 'works'.

Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Ethne Alba
Shipmate
# 5804

 - Posted      Profile for Ethne Alba     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Whilst being very aware that various Anglican churches in other provinces Do have de consecration services........

And also baring in mind that the PCC and minister can choose to have any service and may very well cause it to be called "de consecration service" for purely pastoral reasons.....

As far as the Church of England is concerned, isn't a Consecration as legal term? And therefore is there any such legal thing as a "de consecration service"?

Doesn't the de consecration happen as a result of the diocesan registrar signing a form?

Posts: 3126 | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Among Methodists, and no doubt some other Non-conformists, there seems to be a somewhat muddled theology of church buildings. We still have a vague notion of 'the house of God' and a sense of hired halls as something lesser, yet when we sell our churches they automatically lose any aura of holiness without any specific prayers or rituals to that effect. I'm not entirely sure how this 'works'.

You are right - and we call our buildings "churches" while saying that "the church is people". The architect of Cromer Baptist Church got things right with the ascription above the door ... but what any prospective purchaser do with that lettering?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
No problem, if you're a Baptist. Just have friends over for coffee once in a while.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

 - Posted      Profile for Chorister   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In my home village, the Methodist church was being sold off - the former congregation were hoping that it would be bought by someone sympathetic to former use, as apparently it had to be sold to the person offering the best price, rather than to the person offering the most suitable solution. In the end, it was sold to someone wanting to convert it into a house, so that was OK then. In a rural area, conversions of old schools and old churches into houses is the most common outcome. And many of them are done rather well.

For an alternative solution, I offer you the place where I took my exams - a CofE church bought by the college and turned into an educational centre. While I was scribbling away, my thoughts did wonder what the ghosts of worshippers past were making of it all.

--------------------
Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Among Methodists, and no doubt some other Non-conformists, there seems to be a somewhat muddled theology of church buildings. We still have a vague notion of 'the house of God' and a sense of hired halls as something lesser, yet when we sell our churches they automatically lose any aura of holiness without any specific prayers or rituals to that effect. I'm not entirely sure how this 'works'.

You are right - and we call our buildings "churches" while saying that "the church is people". The architect of Cromer Baptist Church got things right with the ascription above the door ... but what any prospective purchaser do with that lettering?
Don't get me started! Our minister was always saying 'the church is the people', but when our building became a serious burden and options were being considered he refused to help us think theologically about how we could be church without a building of our own. His enthusiasm was all about having a sparkly new building paid for by sponsors. Well, the credit crunch put paid to the sponsorship, and that was that.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged


 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools