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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: They shall take up serpents
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Did he mean it? Should we be able to pick up snakes without being killed? Apparently it doesn't always work, as Jamie Coots, a snake-handling Kentucky pastor, found out Saturday night (2/15). When the paramedics came, he said, "No, God won't let me die of snakebite*."
God let him die.
So does Mark 16:18 still apply? Did it ever?
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*paraphrase from another news story
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
It did for Paul, apparently, on malta. But Paul wasn't doing the whole "thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test" bit.
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I think it manifestly does not apply as the demonstrated by the deaths and injuries sustained by various practitioners, from the beginning of the movement
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
A fairly reasonable analysis of snake handling from Fred Clark:
quote:
Snake-handling is an Appalachian phenomenon. That requires three conclusions, I think.
First, it means that we’re not dealing with wealthy, powerful people here. This is a practice that is found almost exclusively in poor communities — places that have had their land and their people strip-mined, exploited and poisoned for generations. So we need to be very careful here about punching down (see also Ari Kohen on this point).
Second, we have to ask why out of 2,000 years of Christianity all over the world, this practice arose in only one place during only one relatively brief span of time. All those millions of Christians elsewhere and elsewhen also had access to that one odd verse in the dubious epilogue to Mark’s Gospel, yet none of those other millions of Christians understood that verse to mean what these folks take it to mean. That doesn’t prove their interpretation is wrong, but it suggests that they must shoulder an enormous burden of proof if they want to demonstrate that they’re right and that, therefore, every other Christian who ever lived is or was wrong.
So let’s put those two things together. This weird, unique distortion of the Bible is distinctive to one time and place. It is most likely thus also a product of what it is that makes this time and place distinctive. I think it demonstrates an attempt to demonstrate power and divine validation on the part of people whose lives are otherwise desperately lacking those very things. If that’s true — if that’s the condition that produces their idiosyncratic and dangerously wrong interpretation of Mark 16, then this isn’t an error that can be corrected with better exegesis. Their interpretation will likely only change when those conditions are changed.
Italics in original post, bold added by me. Follow-up here,
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
So does Mark 16:18 still apply? Did it ever?
As ever I think the problem here is above all one of systematisation.
There is the account in Acts of Paul shaking off the snake in Malta.
I've never had to deal with that, but I have some experience with another declaration in that verse: quote:
when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all
Visiting prisoners in their cells you get invited to eat and drink all sorts of stuff. Particularly memorable are being railroaded into drinking prison hooch (served out of a bin bag) and being served prison coffee one afternoon: kept warm since having been served in the morning in an old Coke bottle laid on the radiator pipes, with a large helping of instant chicory coffee poured in, and the offer of a chewed pencil to stir the concoction with. And many many other less visibly scary times when I wonder just how clean that glass/jam jar (the recipient of choice in jail) is and what diseases the inmate might have.
I don't go looking for this kind of experience and I'm not about to start a bleach-drinking denomination, but I think those examples pretty much come with the territory I'm ministering in, and yes whatever questions I might have about the inclusion of the end of Mark's gospel in the canon I do often bear it in mind at such times.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
The Fred Clark article appears to unjustly attack all of Appalachia for what a very small sect in a few remote areas engages in and their belief is not based upon where they live, anyway. Estimates I've read place the number of folks who believe in handling poisonous snakes in a mid four figure amount and some may live as far away as Canada.
Here is the wiki about it, fwiw.
Interesting bit quote:
George Went Hensley (1880–1955) introduced snake handling practices into the Church of God Holiness, circa 1910. He later resigned his ministry and started the first holiness movement church to require snake handling as evidence of salvation. Sister-churches later sprang up throughout the Appalachian region.
I'm not sure if "Hensley" is a Scotch-Irish euphemism for "crazy". I'd disagree with requiring snake handling as evidence of salvation. In none of the conversion accounts in Acts do I see anyone being tossed a snake after their baptism.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
What sort of brain-dead monkey, even in church, would handle a poisonous snake except by with remote control from a substantial distance?!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Thus endeth this thread!?
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
What sort of brain-dead monkey, even in church, would handle a poisonous snake except by with remote control from a substantial distance?!
I bet some of the very practitioners in question have asked that same question after they were bitten.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
You shall not tempt the Lord your God.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
There is the account in Acts of Paul shaking off the snake in Malta.
Bit of a tangent I know, but I.H. Marshall in his Commentary of Acts, states that there aren't any poisonous snakes on Malta in the present day - although that doesn't preclude there being poisonous ones then. He suggests that the inhabitants expected Paul to die because the snake biting him was a sign that he was cursed, and although he had survived the shipwreck, the Greek Goddess Justice or a local deity had still found him and would kill him directly - rather than because the snake itself was deadly.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
Some things Our Lord gave us for our edification and growth in the faith.
Some things he gave us so that we might approach our Heavenly Father with awe and trembling.
Some things he gave us to inspire us with the beauty of the Lord.
And some things, he just gave us to weed out the idiots.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
I think there is some obvious attractions to the belief that Christians are superheroes who can show off their superpowers in order to win converts. Sadly it doesn't seem to work like that.
You've tried? ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
Why isn't it obvious that Jesus is using a metaphor? ![[Confused]](confused.gif) ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Snakes are a metaphor for harmful evil throughout the Bible. The comparison is so common that I don't think that I need to even quote examples.
Jesus is saying nothing more than that those protected by God will not be spiritually harmed by evil.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
Why isn't it obvious that Jesus is using a metaphor?
Obviously not to some people. Either people prefer the literal interpretation because it fulfils some psychological need - to 'prove' that God exists and is protecting them at that moment and by extension throughout their lives, sort of making faith empirically testable for example, or perhaps they are simply 'metaphor blind', and another approach simply doesn't occur to them.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
I spoke at length with a woman who had grown up in a snake-handling church, and with a different woman who had several relatives involved. The second woman was related to Dennis Covington, who wrote "Salvation on Sand Mountain". I was told by the first woman that the snakes at her church were almost always iced down and kept in a cooler behind the pulpit, out of sight. They would be swapped out as they warmed up and began to move around more.
The second woman had a lot more info. She said that people keep the snakes in their homes, allowing them to run loose. When someone comes to visit, they won't let the visitors in until they've caught the snakes and put them away. She said they don't bring out the snakes in a service when visitors are around, usually, claiming the Spirit isn't right. She suspected it had more to do with not wanting to be made fun of.
She said that although copperheads and water moccasins (cottonmouths) were occasionally used, the favorites were rattlesnakes. I know from other, unrelated sources that rattlesnakes are dangerous, but not as dangerous as the other two. For one thing, they will avoid biting someone if they can. For another, adult rattlers can control their venom, and most of the time if an adult rattlesnake bites you it's a "dry" bite -- although there is often a small amount of venom left from the previous bite. It is of course best to always treat each bite as though it was venomous, but we're talking averages here. Sometimes an individual snake will bite with full venom when it feels threatened in some way, and sometimes it won't.
So my contact told me they like rattlesnakes better because they're less likely to bite, especially when well-fed.
I've also heard of them using spiders (brown recluse and black widow) and scorpions, although the snakes are by far the most popular and most well known. The second woman said that drinking strychnine or other poisons was also known, although less so than the snakes.
That's an interesting point about the phenomenon being a socio-economic one. I'm going to have to mull that over a bit.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yonatan:
...people prefer the literal interpretation...
These are literal inerrantists, to a man. They are KJV-only, YEC, and fall within the fundamentalist section of Christianity. Many are suspicious of educated preachers, claiming that seminary makes preachers lose the faith and "too liberal". Most of them believe that going to a doctor when sick is a sign of poor faith, because God will heal them if they're really faithful enough.
I'm not knocking them -- these are some of the most devout believers you'll meet -- just acknowledging they believe differently from me and most of us on the Ship.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
Posts: 1621 | From: Warrior Mountains | Registered: Oct 2007
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Alogon
Cabin boy emeritus
# 5513
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Posted
It's just as well to ponder the question metaphorically. As an investor, I don't confine myself to "socially responsible" funds. Maybe I should, but have succombed to small positions in TYG and KYE (oil pipelines and such energy infrastructure) because of their attractive dividends-- while praying never to take the proceeds, but that they will all go to a good cause after my death. According to William Stringfellow, this is tantamount to taking up serpents-- although perhaps no more so than investing in any other corporation, even the so-called socially responsible ones. It's not easy these days for anyone to have clean hands on this score.
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Patriarchy (n.): A belief in original sin unaccompanied by a belief in God.
Posts: 7808 | From: West Chester PA | Registered: Feb 2004
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iamvalisme
Apprentice
# 13233
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Posted
I think my answer to this is that yes, absolutely, God will protect you when necessary. BUT He also gives us common sense. And common sense says steer clear of venomous animals if you can. So, I like the reply of Eutycus - protection when doing a job. I suspect Eutychus keeps his own crockery at home clean and doesn't risk (food poisoning)unnecessarily. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Val
Posts: 5 | From: liverpool | Registered: Dec 2007
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
You can read a lot of threads here waiting for an opportunity to link to the art of The Immortal Tonio K:
quote:
The Lord of Hosts
has got to like me
else this thing here
would surely strike me
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
That's an interesting point about the phenomenon being a socio-economic one. I'm going to have to mull that over a bit.
Prosperity often purchases moderation in religious practice.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784
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Posted
Don't ignore the power of one person doing it because that person has "an issue" and then other people following because they too want to prove they have some sort of "power" other than being poor and watching people with more money order you around.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Because, Freddy, fundamentalism is the default human position. Jesus' context and almost exclusively figurative language are ignored and made wooden for every dogma going.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barefoot Friar:
That's an interesting point about the phenomenon being a socio-economic one. I'm going to have to mull that over a bit.
If that were a significant reason it seems there would be far more people doing it in that area and could probably be expected all over the world where ever you find poor Christians.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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Mere Nick
Shipmate
# 11827
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yonatan:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
There is the account in Acts of Paul shaking off the snake in Malta.
Bit of a tangent I know, but I.H. Marshall in his Commentary of Acts, states that there aren't any poisonous snakes on Malta in the present day - although that doesn't preclude there being poisonous ones then. He suggests that the inhabitants expected Paul to die because the snake biting him was a sign that he was cursed, and although he had survived the shipwreck, the Greek Goddess Justice or a local deity had still found him and would kill him directly - rather than because the snake itself was deadly.
Logic therefore dictates that Patrick once visited Malta.
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"Well that's it, boys. I've been redeemed. The preacher's done warshed away all my sins and transgressions. It's the straight and narrow from here on out, and heaven everlasting's my reward."
Delmar O'Donnell
Posts: 2797 | From: West Carolina | Registered: Sep 2006
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tortuf:
Don't ignore the power of one person doing it because that person has "an issue" and then other people following because they too want to prove they have some sort of "power" other than being poor and watching people with more money order you around.
An elderly relative was in attendance at a church service where the pastor healed someone who had been walking with a cane. The pastor then asked everyone in attendance who used a cane to get healed and leave their cane behind.
My relative gave up the cane and promptly suffered several falls over the following week. Obviously no healing had occurred but the peer pressure was such that refusing to give up the cane would have indicated a lack of faith.
I can imagine snake handling churches being similar - feeling pressured to take risks so as not to seem that one isn't in receipt of God's power.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I think that socio-economic and cultural issues do come into it - but alongside other factors.
You'll find similarly 'fundamentalist' practices in all Christian traditions. What marks this one out is the deadliness of it.
Mind you, at one of the poetry/creative writing groups I'm involved with, where there is a strong anti-theist strain among some of the participants - one of the group rather vehemently challenged me last night to account for why 'Knock and it shall be given to you ... Seek and ye shall find' and 'Whatever you ask in my name ...' didn't seem to apply or to 'work'.
This chap is a lapsed Catholic and very bitter, it seems to me, as he lost his wife to cancer and has had a lot of tragedy to contend with ...
![[Frown]](frown.gif)
I didn't answer. I just let him sound off. To be honest, I didn't know what to say ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
There is the account in Acts of Paul shaking off the snake in Malta.
I've never had to deal with that, but I have some experience with another declaration in that verse: quote:
when they drink deadly poison, it will not hurt them at all.
I did hear (anecdotally) of a missionary in an African country who had not learned the local language as well as he thought he had. So when, in the Eucharist, he talked about the "Cup of Blessing", he was actually saying "Cup of Poison".
It was only after many moons that someone put him right; meanwhile the folk in his church had elaborated a belief which said that what they drank at Communion was really dangerous, but that the prayers said over it and the faith of the communicant rendered it harmless.
I don't know if the story is true - but I'd like it to be!
(I say this as someone who, in a similar African context, once mispronounced the benediction at the end of a service by asking for God's blessing to be with everyone "until they got married"!)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
There is nothing right you can say in such a situation--except "I love you" through your actions, as you did by listening. so ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
As for drinking poison, I too have had occasion to meditate on that while visiting the VERY hospitable immigrants of our community, who are not used to refrigerators and who routinely leave meat, etc sitting on the counter all day. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) I don't THINK I've had food poisoning from it yet in 25 years, though I did pick up salmonella from a Subways restaurant. So maybe it only applies to those who encounter snakes/poison in the course of Christian service. (that last point is half serious, though I do note that this passage falls in the longer ending of Mark, which is doubtful even to inerrantists)
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I thought the snake handling bits in the bible were later inserts and don't actually belong in the NT at all.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Felafool
Shipmate
# 270
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Posted
Snake handling.....great idea for selecting future ordinands!
![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
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I don't care if the glass is half full or half empty - I ordered a cheeseburger.
Posts: 265 | Registered: May 2001
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TurquoiseTastic
Fish of a different color
# 8978
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pydseybare:
I made the point about this being a late addition to the text above.
I also don't even think that matters - in the sense that the idea that bad things would not affect Christians does not appear to be consistent with the message of Jesus Christ (in fact, quite the reverse) and common experience suggests that being a Christian is no cure for common ailments and problems. Hence, other than perhaps in a rhetorical/poetic sense that Freddy described above, this can surely be ignored by everyone.
But isn't Freddie's interpretation just as problematic? Saying that "Christians won't be harmed by spiritual evil" is equally as optimistic/foolhardy as the snakes thing, just not so immediately and obviously so.
On the other hand "this can surely be ignored by everyone" seems much too glib. As for "this was a later interpolation" - how does that help? We still have to deal with it. It's not as though it's an isolated instance - Eutychus mentions Paul's snake encounter in Malta, and Acts is stuffed to the gills with miraculous rescues of believers from prison, sickness, falling from a great height (Eutychus's namesake), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Not always, of course, but sometimes.
Is this really capricious of God? For some reason I am reminded of Roger Rabbit. "You mean you could have taken your paw out of the handcuffs at any time?" "No, not at any time. Only when it was funny."
Posts: 1092 | From: Hants., UK | Registered: Jan 2005
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
Snake handling.....great idea for selecting future ordinands!
But it's not very Anglican IMO - although that's admittedly a broad Church.
Or are the "snakes" symbolic language for something else (or certain people) in church life?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
I am reminded of a passage in Deuteronomy that say we should not put God to the test, or in the New Testament, that we should not tempt God.
Certainly, God could save the snake-handler, but why make more work for God? A common saying is that God helps those who help themselves; this presumably includes keeping ourselves safe.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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pydseybare
Shipmate
# 16184
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
But isn't Freddie's interpretation just as problematic? Saying that "Christians won't be harmed by spiritual evil" is equally as optimistic/foolhardy as the snakes thing, just not so immediately and obviously so.
Hum, dunno, I'll have to think about that.
quote:
On the other hand "this can surely be ignored by everyone" seems much too glib. As for "this was a later interpolation" - how does that help? We still have to deal with it. It's not as though it's an isolated instance - Eutychus mentions Paul's snake encounter in Malta, and Acts is stuffed to the gills with miraculous rescues of believers from prison, sickness, falling from a great height (Eutychus's namesake), et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Not always, of course, but sometimes.
Well, even if you think that the epistles are accurate, the difference appears to be the phrasing. In the stories you mention, one can obviously interpret them as being miraculous things that happened to one person at one point in time, and it is a bit of a leap to suggest that because x happened to Paul, we should also expect it to happen to us.
The passage here isn't really like that. I don't have any problem with leaving it if it has no use, I can't really see any advantage in insisting that we must deal with it.
quote:
Is this really capricious of God? For some reason I am reminded of Roger Rabbit. "You mean you could have taken your paw out of the handcuffs at any time?" "No, not at any time. Only when it was funny."
Well I think I'd describe it more in terms of lies if at one point God was saying 'oh, don't worry about snakes and poison, they'll have no effect' and then it is proved that they do.
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"If you act like an illiterate man, your learning will never stop... Being uneducated, you have no fear of the future."
Posts: 812 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
You shall not tempt the Lord your God.
I agree with Martin PC - and I don't often find myself saying that.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
'ceptin' I don't buy that any of this has to do with tempting God. It's about tempting snakes.
God does not care if humans want to handle snakes or commit mass murder. God lets these things happen. God only provides us with some pre-event planning for how to cope with the post-event horror. It is also why liturgy is more important than speaking in tongues.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
'ceptin' I don't buy that any of this has to do with tempting God. It's about tempting snakes.
God does not care if humans want to handle snakes or commit mass murder. God lets these things happen. God only provides us with some pre-event planning for how to cope with the post-event horror. It is also why liturgy is more important than speaking in tongues.
We could have liturgical snake-handling, you know. It tends to be confined to non-liturgical churches of course.
Also, the prophets may have had quite a lot to say about this bit - quote:
God does not care if humans want to handle snakes or commit mass murder.
Although I do realise this may just be an ironic riff on your screen name.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
I don't think you'd get people in the UK to take it seriously.
Far too many of us have read Tom Sharpe's The Great Pursuit ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Yes, I miss both the allusions and illusions. Colour? I think snakes don't do colour, nor I think really do they pay attention to music a lá the snake charmers. I think they pay attention to heat. So probably candles and incense.
I dunno, I wonder why people try handling snakes but don't try to walk on water. There are some I would encourage to try the walking on water.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
I dunno, I wonder why people try handling snakes but don't try to walk on water.
You obviously failed to get the memo.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
OK now which one of you commented on that page?
quote:
Anonymous said...
Get them snakes!
2/19/2014 4:54 PM
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
Snake handling.....great idea for selecting future ordinands!
But it's not very Anglican IMO - although that's admittedly a broad Church.
Tends to depend on the Anglican. I once had an Anglican minister from a Church out East tell me "We had a Legion case the other day" (exorcism in which the spirit was asked to name itself and answered "Legion').
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Freddy
Shipmate
# 365
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TurquoiseTastic:
But isn't Freddie's interpretation just as problematic? Saying that "Christians won't be harmed by spiritual evil" is equally as optimistic/foolhardy as the snakes thing, just not so immediately and obviously so.
It depends on how you take it.
If you say "evil can't hurt me because I'm a Christian" and then put yourself in risky situations, thinking you are immune, then yes, it is just as problematic as literally handling snakes.
But the intended meaning, as I understand it, is the simple truth that it is good to be a sincere Christian, living as Christ taught. That makes it more likely that you will avoid evil practices and so will not be spiritually hurt by them. Even if they intrude into your life you can be protected from them by sincerely following God's Word.
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"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg
Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001
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