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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Ale, Ale, the Gang's All Here: A Refreshing Beverage Thread
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
The same argument was used for the introduction of keg-beers with electric and gas dispense systems in the 1960s - that it made for consistency.
It did. Consistent crap.
You have to be a good cellarman to keep draught ale properly. And bottle conditioning is notoriously difficult.
I take the point, though, about US lagers having to have a crisp, clean constituency and not a lot of body behind them - if you're out in the sun in Arizona that's what you are going to need.
I'm sure that level of consistency does take skill to achieve but you won't see me drinking Bud, Coors or Miller anytime soon. I'd rather drink cat's piss.
There are decent US beers out there - of course there are - and the number and variety seems to be increasing. They do seem to over-hop though - they go for hop-bombs at the expense of subtlety.
That said, I've enjoyed the few bottles of Anchor Steam I've had and another Anchor brew too - I've forgotten the name, which was more similar to a British ale but hoppier and fiercer.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
That would probably be Liberty, which, along with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, is considered the origin of today's classic Cascade hopped (which is to say grapefruity) American Pale Ale.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
This is a very lengthy article from the local free weekly about Avery brewing, one of the better respected breweries in the country (and maker of my favorite Brown ale and Wit)
Those would be Ellie's Brown and White Rascal, no?
There's a very good reason why I knew exactly which beers you meant.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
...I've enjoyed the few bottles of Anchor Steam I've had and another Anchor brew too - I've forgotten the name, which was more similar to a British ale but hoppier and fiercer.
I attended Cal Berkeley's architecture school when I was a teenager and remember it fondly as it was brewed right across the bay. Years later, my sister finally married and they bought a house up in the hills: I think I remember it in their fridge. I don't remember the other variety though...
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
That would probably be Liberty, which, along with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, is considered the origin of today's classic Cascade hopped (which is to say grapefruity) American Pale Ale.
They are now putting out a pretty tasty porter, too.
Anybody tried Speakeasy? Another San Francisco product. I like their Prohibition Ale (a red ale) and their Imperial Stout.
I need y'all's help and input-- when ordering in beer houses, I like to stick to California brews (go local, you know.) What would be a handy print- out cheat sheet of beers I should try?
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
That would probably be Liberty, which, along with Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, is considered the origin of today's classic Cascade hopped (which is to say grapefruity) American Pale Ale.
They are now putting out a pretty tasty porter, too.
Anybody tried Speakeasy? Another San Francisco product. I like their Prohibition Ale (a red ale) and their Imperial Stout.
I need y'all's help and input-- when ordering in beer houses, I like to stick to California brews (go local, you know.) What would be a handy print- out cheat sheet of beers I should try?
"Now?" Anchor Porter's a classic—it's one of the few explicit clone brews in The Joy of Homebrewing, since nothing else quite has that same vinuous flavor. Most of the brewers' forums suggest adding a bit of Belgian aromatic or Special B to the boil to get some raisin and plum, which sounds like quite a good idea to me.
As for that "cheat sheet," well, you're on the opposite coast from me, so you probably see an entirely different selection than I do; I'm going to guess that Dogfish and Magic Hat aren't as common, the less common Sierra Nevadas are, and, of course, the nutjob little tiny breweries aren't going to move beyond one state/district's distribution laws. There's no use recommending Union Old Pro Gose, DC Brau Penn Quarter Porter, Stillwater 420, Coop Native Amber, or Duckrabbit Milk Stout to you if there's no way in Hell any of those are going to make it west of the nearest continental divide. Ditto English shipmates extolling the virtues of Hook Norton on cask, much less Garton Chocolate Frog (especially since I just found out that last brewery apparently went out of business six years ago—well, so much for having more than fond memories of that one!). But, if we're going to compile a list of "Touchstone Beers:"
—ANYTHING by The Bruery, especially if it's sour. Hottenroth is one of the few Berliner Weißen you'll find in the States; deliciously sour and refreshing. Sour in the Rye and Tart of Darkness, while both FRIKKIN' EXPENSIVE, are totally worth it—very bold, complex, and tart beers, with malt and rich flavor enough to support the bracing tartness. Even their non-sour, like Rugbrød rye or their Twelve Days Christmas ales are downright delicious. They're a SoCal brewery, so you'll see them. Yes, I know I rant about them all the time, but there's a reason.
—Those really weird things Dogfish puts out: Sam Calagione, Dogfish Head's brewer, did, in fact, write the book on extreme brewing. Want a beer brewed according to archaeological evidence? They make four a year, though the one where you skip the mash and instead chew the grain to use the enzymes in your spit to convert the starches into sugar (yes, it works) didn't sell so well (yes, they tried). Figure out what the weirdest one they're releasing that year is, and drink it. Also, 60 Minute IPA is basically the definitive "East Coast" American IPA, so if we're assembling an Encyclopedia of Beer, it gets a slot.
—Flying Dog Double Dog: One of the first of what would eventually become known as the "Imperial IPA," or, by those of us who like two-note beers, "oh no, not this again." This one, however, is good—it's like drinking hop juice, rather than hop extract. There's sweetness and malt, something with flavor, so it's "party in your mouth!" rather than "I can't taste anything ever again." Of course, with Flying Dog, half the time it's the name you're ordering—Underdog, In Heat Wheat (one of the few I don't like), Doggie Style, and, of course, the now ubiquitous Belgian IPA Raging Bitch.
—Avery White Rascal: perhaps the best Witbier I've had; nice and citrusy from the coriander, and actually quite drinkable while warm. Everything else from Avery is good too, but the Wit especially.
Okay, there are lots of others, but the problem is I don't know your breweries, I have no clue about the distribution networks of mine (save that half of them suck and I have to play "guess which jurisdiction you distribute in!" if I want their beer—which they hate too), and one or two of my absolute "defines what this style could be" beers are Maryland/Oklahoma/New Mexico only, or foreign, which almost seems like cheating…and could take me all night to list. Which, not to worry, I'll be drawing up that list all night.
[ 01. February 2014, 05:23: Message edited by: Ariston ]
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
. Old Rasputin imperial stout is quite nice. Fulton's "Worthy Adversary" is even better, but I'm not sure how widely they distribute.
Do yourself a favour, when North Coast releases their next barrel aged, anniversary version of Old Rasputin, buy some. AIUI, their distribution is limited. I found a local shop who will order it for me when it comes available. Spendy. All the more for the distance, but worth it.
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
and their Imperial Stout.
Try this one, Kelly.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
"Now?" Anchor Porter's a classic—it's one of the few explicit clone brews in The Joy of Homebrewing, since nothing else quite has that same vinuous flavor. Most of the brewers' forums suggest adding a bit of Belgian aromatic or Special B to the boil to get some raisin and plum, which sounds like quite a good idea to me.
Now as opposed to "since we became a state." ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) I've only seen it on the shelves locally for the last five-six years or so. And even then only in frou-frou delicatessens.
The local BevMo has a breathtaking array of local microbrews so recommend away.
I have seen a lot of Dogfish, but haven't tried it yet.. my practice is to look at the label and pick whatever in closest to my zipcode. Therefore, I offer the following recommendations:
Anderson Brewing Company-- Boont Ale and Oatmeal Stout.
Half Moon Bay Brewing co-- Mavericks "Princeton -by-the-sea" IPA
Lagunitas IPA. Lagunitas anything, really.
...and there is a new brewpub down the coast in Gazos Creek called "Highway 1 Brewing Co." but, um, they are still perfecting their brew. I go for the food.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
and their Imperial Stout.
Try this one, Kelly.
I have.
It is SINFUL.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
. Old Rasputin imperial stout is quite nice. Fulton's "Worthy Adversary" is even better, but I'm not sure how widely they distribute.
Do yourself a favour, when North Coast releases their next barrel aged, anniversary version of Old Rasputin, buy some. AIUI, their distribution is limited. I found a local shop who will order it for me when it comes available. Spendy. All the more for the distance, but worth it.
Thanks! Will do.
I think I'm going to have to brew an IS one of these days...
[edited to fix coding cock-up...]
[ 04. February 2014, 13:39: Message edited by: jbohn ]
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
No "Real Ale" today: I worked a half day in the morning at a venue which had a sushi bar so I had a Kirin for lunch with my sashimi; it was quite good! That said, tomorrow when I go down the pub (and I am blessed with to Irish-owned pubs within walking distance of my house), I shall start with Guinness and progress with a "Blacksmith", then maybe onto a local micro-brewed porter or two. I shall then reverse my steps and walk back home after the blues jam session is over.....
My favourite pub is tucked in behind a petrol station which is itself behind a rather large restaurant. The pub is v. traditional but does not serve food although the pizza guy usually comes round on each of the four nights they have live music!
Apparently, not being able to drink more after lunch since I was driving, I watched a nil-nil draw between SHEFFIELD UNITED and FULHAM and took up cigar-smoking again for only the second time since Dad passed in 2003....
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
. Old Rasputin imperial stout is quite nice. Fulton's "Worthy Adversary" is even better, but I'm not sure how widely they distribute.
Do yourself a favour, when North Coast releases their next barrel aged, anniversary version of Old Rasputin, buy some. AIUI, their distribution is limited. I found a local shop who will order it for me when it comes available. Spendy. All the more for the distance, but worth it.
Thanks! Will do.
I think I'm going to have to brew an IS one of these days...
[edited to fix coding cock-up...]
I contacted North Coast, they released the XVI Anniversary on 1st Feb. you will likely need to do what I do, which us to find someone willing to order it.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
I'm going to guess that...Magic Hat (is not) as common....
I've had that, quite good for a 'value' microbrew: one of the Irish-owned pubs a short walk from our house stocks it and retails it for US $3.50 a pint, the equivalent of about £2.25 I would say, but of course it has not travelled to the UK!
I just got off work and am currently enjoying a couple of bottles of Newcastle, aka 'Newkie Brown' which I picked up in a twelve pack for around the equivalent of about £20 at our local Safeway which has an excellent beer and liquor department. I only drank four bottles during the Super Bowl. It is the only beer my lovely bride will drink! The employee in charge knows me well and has a sign by the Lindemann's pinot noir that reads: "K M (that's me!), neighborhood wine critic..." recommends the stuff.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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nickel
Shipmate
# 8363
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Posted
There was a brief interlude between this morning's sleet and this evening's beautiful white snowfall, in which dear husband and I went to the store. He bought a bottle of Heineken which I got a taste of before he finished it. Thirty years ago, Heineken was my least favorite beer because it was so skunky -- yuck. But today? quite mild, not skunky at all. Have my tastes changed, or is the quality better? Is it the recipe, or the bottling or shipping that's made a difference?
Posts: 547 | From: Virginia USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
They still use the green bottle, which is often blamed for skunkieness. But I suspect they have better caps to keep O2 out and better shipping practices, and that your local retailer takes better care of it and, most importantly, sells a lot of it so that it moves off the shelves. A lot of the skunky European beer taste people talk about is apparently the fault of stores having the same six pack out of the refrigerator and on the shelf for six months before it sells.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
I'm confused. The thread title says Ale but we seem to be talking about Heinekan
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Enjoyed a lovely case of Modelo Negra over the last 90 minutes...
It is a luscious dark beer, the best in Mexico, similar to a porter.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
(My bad:case = six-pack, not 24 bottles!)
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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nickel
Shipmate
# 8363
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Posted
Thanks Og, no doubt the places I bought beer years ago were not overly concerned about shelf life. Miller and Micheloeb were much more popular than Heineken. My friends and I always ordered pitchers of Micheloeb, with pretzels and mustard and change left over for the jukebox.
Times change for the better. Spike, you can see I did not grow up with access to quality ale. That situation is alot better now thanks to the rise of craft breweries, but I'm afraid I generically think of all of ales as a subset of "beer".
Posts: 547 | From: Virginia USA | Registered: Aug 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
'Newkie Brown' is pretty yuck ... certainly compared with other, less well known examples of Brown Ale - which is a genre in its own right.
As a style, Brown Ale has tended to fall on hard times recently ...
I don't know whether Samuel Smiths still do their Nut Brown Ale but that's a much better example of the style than Newcastle Brown - but for some reason Newcastle Brown is popular in the USA it would seem.
I'd imagine it's because the texture and consistency is different to that of the more generally available styles in the US.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
You can get Sam Smith's nut brown around here.
As for Newcastle's prominence outside of the UK, I suspect it has everything to do with marketing and the fact that it is owned by Heineken International.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
It may also taste different over here; from reading books on clone brews, it's made up of two components, a mild ale and an old ale. Perhaps the extra time spent in aging allows the old ale extra time to mature? I know this works with Belgian strong and Trappist ales, especially Orval, which generally benefit from a bit of bottle aging. It could also be that, in comparison to the American tendency to overhop everything, a malty brown ale with old ale vinuous notes is a nice something different.
Or perhaps the fact it's the one brown ale universally available explains things just as well. Potato, potato.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
I'm confused. The thread title says Ale but we seem to be talking about Heinekan
Heeheeheehee...
I think Heineken is German for, "It'll do in a pinch."
Hey! Any Pabst fans out there?
(KIDDING.)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
When I was a poor college student living in a small town in Tennessee without any other options, Pabst got me by- in fact, we made fun of you for putting on airs if you showed up at the party with Budweiser. We used to joke that Pabst was a gamble; the first can out of the 12 pack let you know if you got a good 12 pack or a bad 12 pack. I don't think it was really that bad. (And I have to admit that when the crowd we had over to watch the super bowl drank all of the good beer and I got sent out for beer for the second half, I came back with Pabst, and it went pretty quickly. Depressed football fans will drink anything.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
It may also taste different over here;
I have heard that you should be careful about ordering Newcastle at bars that have it on tap in the States, as they probably don't have the technology to serve it any other way than extra fizzy and super cold, which is not how it is meant to be served.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
When I was a poor college student living in a small town in Tennessee without any other options, Pabst got me by- in fact, we made fun of you for putting on airs if you showed up at the party with Budweiser. We used to joke that Pabst was a gamble; the first can out of the 12 pack let you know if you got a good 12 pack or a bad 12 pack. I don't think it was really that bad. (And I have to admit that when the crowd we had over to watch the super bowl drank all of the good beer and I got sent out for beer for the second half, I came back with Pabst, and it went pretty quickly. Depressed football fans will drink anything.)
I totally agree- pisswater beer has its uses.
Trader Joe's has a couple excellent PBR substitutes-- higher in alcohol count, too. Their "Name Tag" lager is the most celebrated-- I found it reasonably tasty and with a big kick.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
It may also taste different over here;
I have heard that you should be careful about ordering Newcastle at bars that have it on tap in the States, as they probably don't have the technology to serve it any other way than extra fizzy and super cold, which is not how it is meant to be served.
The technology is that you turn down the CO2 on the regulator to the keg and adjust the thermostat in the cooler where you're keeping the kegs. A lack of technology isn't the problem—unless you're expecting hand pumps, in which case, the presence of technology is the problem.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Yes - go for cask and go for handpumps ... everytime ...
Seriously, I am prepared to accept that there are plenty of decent microbrewed US craft beers that aren't cask ...
But why? Why not go for cask? Why use keg and the technology in the first place? It ruined British and Irish beers back in the 1960s ... why bother with this terrible technology?
And, to be fair, most British bottled beer isn't bottle-conditioned either ... that's very hard to do. Some bottle-conditioned beer is very, very variable ...
I'm not sure I've ever seen Newcastle Brown Ale on handpump or on draught in keg form ... I've only ever seen it in bottles over here in the UK.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
'Newkie Brown' is pretty yuck ... certainly compared with other, less well known examples of Brown Ale - which is a genre in its own right.....
It's the best available here in grocery stores: I like it.
I wish we could afford to spend a week in Cornwall again, go to good pubs, have a full English breakfast at our ocean-view hotel in Penzance as well as visiting the Cider Farm and attending Catholic mass with a Shipmate but must wait for my wife to find permanent employment as a writer or high school English teacher....
Sadly, we are both supply teachers and rarely travel further than San Diego where I can spend three or four days surfing once or twice a year.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Yes - go for cask and go for handpumps ... everytime ...
Seriously, I am prepared to accept that there are plenty of decent microbrewed US craft beers that aren't cask ...
But why? Why not go for cask? Why use keg and the technology in the first place? It ruined British and Irish beers back in the 1960s ... why bother with this terrible technology?
Easy. Casks spoil. Much, much shorter shelf life—can't ship things cross-country in unrefrigerated trucks (and no, you can't just refrigerate the truck or train car; some states don't allow refrigerated beer within their borders if it's over a certain low strength). So I'll see a few local beers on cask, usually with something like a handful of extra hops for IPA's or cacao nibs for porters added to the cask, and usually just poured out of the cask, rather than hand pumped—I'm guessing those are hard to find here, and expensive to boot.
The other thing to consider is that cask ale doesn't have the same cultural significance or connotations here it does over there. Draft beer didn't do jack diddly to the American beer industry that Prohibition, postwar tastes (see the disgusting recipe thread for that), and the vodka industrial complex didn't. What's more, not all beers benefit from being served on cask; while some British styles, especially the weaker (under 5%) do, stouts benefit from a stout faucet (rare, but more common than hand pumps here), while Belgian, Continental, and homegrown styles do better on draft, especially when you can get a better handle on the carbonation. Americans tend to be much more experimental in their brewing, and to draw from sources all over the world, even if we tend to base our styles generally on English examples first; chalk it up to our destroying our native brewing tradition, so we have to borrow from everybody else to make a new one. Finally, cask ale is generally seen as kinda pretentious over here, like using British spelling and drinking hot tea—and, to be fair, it is. It's not normally seen, the places that serve it make a big honkin' deal out of it (as well as what hops, etc., they'll be adding to the cask) and will generally charge extra, rather than just serving the damn beer already! It blows people's minds that tea really is something that is culturally equivalent to coffee in Britain (the idea of construction workers drinking builder's tea blows people's minds, since non-iced tea is seen as extremely effete over here), that you'd see British spelling in an ad for, say, groceries, rather than luxury goods, or that cask beer is just "beer," nothing special (well, besides being good beer, which is special in its own way), nothing pretentious, find it in every pub, what's the big deal? American beers are served on draft, and, in many cases, are meant to be served that way; if you develop the beer with that end in mind, of course it'll work out just fine! Serving a barrel-aged Belgian-inspired sour beer, imperial IPA, or Japanese coffee-infused stout as if they were English bitters would be at least as much of a disservice as the converse.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Ok, that's helpful, Ariston. I can see the points you're making. Back in the day, though, and it probably applied as much to the US in Colonial and immediately post-Colonial days, beer didn't tend to travel - it was brewed for purely local consumption. So a small city like Worcester, for instance had over 40 breweries, each serving one or two pubs.
I hadn't clocked the tea thing, though and this explains some comments I've received on Facebook when I've tried to mollify people after a political argument by offering a cup of tea so we could sit down and converse in a civilised manner ...
Probably pouring petrol (gas) on the flames.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
You're right on about the pre-Prohibition local breweries; had we not had the Temperance movement, hand pumps would likely be common here. American beer would have likely followed along the developments of things like cream ale and California common beer with regular influence from Irish and German immigration, rather than Imperial IPA, since we'd never have had American light lager to rebel against so forcefully. I know there are some breweries trying to reconstruct some of the earlier styles that were still developing when the Noble Experiment killed them, but culinary archaeology is hard work, especially since we have very few ideas where to look—after the breweries closed, there really wasn't much reason to keep records around; brewers didn't always write down their secret recipes, or, if they did, it was in a way only they could understand; and unless a certain brewery was especially well known in its day, why would you bother trying to chase down its long-forgotten records? Unlike pre-Prohibition cocktails, which were meant to be made by home bartenders, meaning that instructions were written for making them—instructions we can still follow, assuming we can find creme de Yvette and Amer Picon—brewers were professionals working in a competitive industry, and had an incentive to make sure nobody found out exactly how their Special and Delicious Beer was made.
A pity, really, at least in retrospect. Thanks to the backlash against bland beer, it can be hard to find something well-done that won't get you drunk in one glass; whenever a brewery decides they're going to focus on beer for drinking, rather than weaponized hop juice, they make a big deal out of it, because it's rare for someone to do that!
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
That's interesting, Ariston. This might sound daft of me, but I keep forgetting about Prohibition.
Beer in the UK obviously has a continuity about it but we wouldn't pretend that the cask ale we drink now is the same as it was back in the 18th century etc. It's more related to 19th and early 20th century developments.
There are regional home-brew traditions that undoubtedly stretch back a long way, though and some of the older forms are rather treacly by modern standards.
As I've said upthread, I've not had that many US beers - but someone helpfully identified Liberty for me (I've had that) and I have had Anchor Steam and Sierra Nevada as well as a bottle of Samuel Adams lager - which I noticed, to my bewilderment - had been brewed under licence by Shepherd Neame here in the UK - our oldest extant brewer.
I can't remember the name of the craft beers I consumed in New York but I did enjoy them. There was one particularly ruddy example which was very flavoursome.
On the whole, as you say, I get the impression that the US brewers tend to go in for 'hop-bombs'. I like to have a lot more going on than simply a hop assault.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I hate, hate hate "hop bombs"
There is a trend around here toward "rye ales," some of which I have enjoyed. Shall investigate names to see if I can remember.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Ah, there we are-- Sierra Nevada Ruthless Rye is one of the varieties I've tried.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I hate, hate hate "hop bombs"
Nothing wrong with a good IPA once in a while. It's that it's the only damned thing folks were brewing for a bit that was the problem.
Then again, I bought a case of PBR for the Super Bowl (some for consumption, some for cooking the brats in). YMMV. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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I have participated in a demonstration that shows that, like cilantro, hops in certain quantities can set certain people's taste buds off. The demo involved everyone putting a strip of paper on their tongs that had been treated with a chemical that naturally occurs in (some?) hops. Some people tasted nothing, some people (like me) tasted a mild unpleasant flavor, and some people looked like they had just taken a shot of dawn dish washing soap. So that may explain part of your personal taste for big American style IPAs. (Like the rest of you, I enjoy a hop bomb from time to time. My favorite beer as of late has been 400 Pound Monkey IPA from Left Hand Brewery, which is supposed to resemble a more restrained English style IPA, with a little more malt in the background and some nice earthy and herbal hop flavors.)
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by jbohn:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I hate, hate hate "hop bombs"
Nothing wrong with a good IPA once in a while. It's that it's the only damned thing folks were brewing for a bit that was the problem.
Then again, I bought a case of PBR for the Super Bowl (some for consumption, some for cooking the brats in). YMMV.
I think what Gamaliel was talking about, though, was the micro brew trend in the last few years of concocting things called "extra mega hoppiness!" or some shit like that. Never tried one of those I liked.
(I'm looking at you,Lagunitas Hop Stoopid.)
[ 18. February 2014, 18:25: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Lately I have been drinking St Ambroise Oatmeal Stout, brewed in Montréal (McAuslan Brewing) for general winter fortification. It is one of the nastiest ones around. Like burn your breadfast porridge, and instead of throwing it out, ferment the mess. I like it because when the weather speaks to me of -40°C/°F with howling winds, the beer howls back, punches me in the tongue and I feel like a really brave hamster all of a sudden.
Яed Hammer, from Paddockwood Brewery (Saskatoon) is probably one of the hop bombs Kelly abhors. But good with something that sets your mouth on fire, like banana beef curry I just had lunch time leftovers with paired (at work, so beerless) with lapsang souchong tea (painfully smoky and nasty too). The faux Russian label is good too.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Olympia beer is more than acceptable if you actually go to the physical brewery in Washington state. At least that's what I remember from when I was young. It was the first beer I tasted as a teenager and in a can, it's sewer water! I wouldn't feed it to a cat and I hate cats....
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Am currently enjoying an Eel River Raven's Eye IS. Very yummy.
Straight from Fortuna, CA. ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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jbohn
Shipmate
# 8753
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
I think what Gamaliel was talking about, though, was the micro brew trend in the last few years of concocting things called "extra mega hoppiness!" or some shit like that. Never tried one of those I liked.
(I'm looking at you,Lagunitas Hop Stoopid.)
Well, yeah - that's kind of where I was going as well. Anything can be done to excess, and the "here's a bottle of hop juice" trend is a bit ridiculous, IMNSHO. While I get the idea that they're all trying to push the boundaries, I wish a few would push in some other direction...
(I know, some do - and I'm glad for it. "New"/old ingredients, something other than hops for spice/preservative, etc. There's a lot more to be explored than how many IBUs we can cram in the bottle.)
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We are punished by our sins, not for them.
--Elbert Hubbard
Posts: 989 | From: East of Eden, west of St. Paul | Registered: Nov 2004
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quantpole
Shipmate
# 8401
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
So I'll see a few local beers on cask, usually with something like a handful of extra hops for IPA's or cacao nibs for porters added to the cask,
Why?? Why in the US do they seem to treat the cask as a randall? Just accept it as the brewer intended, rather than trying to pep it up with random ingredients added to the cask. I've even heard of people putting cream cupcakes into a cask! (OK, some dry hopping in the cask can be OK, but generally would be done by the brewer if that's what they want...)
The US craft beer revolution has done great things for us in the UK as well, but I really really dislike this having to overdo things so much. The hype that goes around some beers is ridiculous (Hill Farmstead, Heady Topper etc). Have a look at ratebeer or beer advocate and you'd struggle to find one in their top 100 that wasn't an imperial this or barrel aged that.
To me, cask beer is intimately tied in with the British pub. It's being able to have 4 or 5 pints and be fine for work in the morning. It's beer for glugging rather than sipping. I just don't think that culture exists in the states.
Don't get me wrong, I do like strong beers, and the variety we get now is amazing even compared to 3 or 4 years ago. But those tend to be in the bottle at home rather than in the pub.
Posts: 885 | From: Leeds | Registered: Aug 2004
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
At the brewery where I most commonly see dry hopped casks, it is the brewer adding dry hops to his own brew, so it is being served the way the brewer intended it.
The cool thing about that place, as I may have mentioned, is that they will take one beer and put it into two casks, and treat each cask with a different hop. That way you can do a side by side taste test and see what the difference between an East Kent Golding and a Saaz hop is.
That brewery also specializes in nice low alcohol English style beers. So it isn't all beer that will hit you over the head.
In Germany they had laws about what could go into beer and what couldn't. In England you have traditions of what is Real Ale and what is not. Here, we brew the beer that we like to drink, and if you don't like it, there is probably someone in another part of town brewing it the way you do like it.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quantpole:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
So I'll see a few local beers on cask, usually with something like a handful of extra hops for IPA's or cacao nibs for porters added to the cask,
Why?? Why in the US do they seem to treat the cask as a randall? Just accept it as the brewer intended, rather than trying to pep it up with random ingredients added to the cask. I've even heard of people putting cream cupcakes into a cask! (OK, some dry hopping in the cask can be OK, but generally would be done by the brewer if that's what they want...)
Don't get me wrong, I do like strong beers, and the variety we get now is amazing even compared to 3 or 4 years ago. But those tend to be in the bottle at home rather than in the pub.
1. Marketing hype dictates that you add stuff to the cask. Why else would you pay extra for the same old beer?
2. Marketing hype dictates that you ramp up the IBU and alcohol content. Why would you pay extra for something as unquantifiable as subtlety when you can have something NEW and BOLD?
3. Marketing hype dictates that you stay away from something you can drink six of during the game, like your old man did with Natty Boh.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quantpole:
I've even heard of people putting cream cupcakes into a cask!
Please understand the difference between what crazy--ass American microbrewers will do to get attention and what discerning Americans actually drink.
Cupcakes? The fuck? You would have to force that shit down my throat with a tube.
Best way to piss me off personally is to offer me something with a tempting base (like a mellow, savory amber) and the jazz it up with freaking jalapeno or something. Gahhh!
ETA and I refuse to go near coffee/ chocolate concoctions. Yuccchh.
[ 21. February 2014, 02:17: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Okay, not all coffee/chocolate concoctions are bad. Coffee porter or chocolate stouts can be delicious. As always, however, it's all in how you incorporate the flavors into the brew. Just as cooks can't get away with letting one or two spices overwhelm their whole recipe, so too should brewers who let the gimmick ruin their beer be held accountable.
By which I don't mean to condemn those who make single hop IPA's or other such beers that show off a certain ingredient, no more than I mean to blame chefs for celebrating a certain something that's in season. However, taking a perfectly good beer and ruining it with the addition of too many hops, cacao nibs, bad coffee, plums, pumpkin pie spice, etc., should be inexcusable.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Currently my favourite that is accessible stateside is the Modelo Negra: rather like a Mexican porter and affordable: four and a half pints for less than £6 or about $9.00 US. Unsure of the alcohol content as it is not stated where I can read it. It's a good accompaniment to the surrealistic thriller I am reading: see book club thread here....
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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quantpole
Shipmate
# 8401
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Posted
It's bad enough when the brewer goes overboard with "special" ingredients, but the ones I have heard about are when the bar take it upon themselves to add extras into the cask. Just because you can do something with a cask you can't with a keg does not mean you should.
Or how about this from a recent cask ale festival in the US:
"a massive, 13% ABV, bourbon barrel-aged, coffee/chocolate/honey/oatmeal stout with Trinidad black scorpion peppers and vanilla beans added directly to the cask"
It just seems that they just don't 'get' cask ale in the states. Which is a great shame, because there really are some fantastic keg beers.
Posts: 885 | From: Leeds | Registered: Aug 2004
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quantpole:
"a massive, 13% ABV, bourbon barrel-aged, coffee/chocolate/honey/oatmeal stout with Trinidad black scorpion peppers and vanilla beans added directly to the cask"
I want to gouge my eyes out.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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