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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Morning Office Etiquette
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Gracious rebel
Rainbow warrior
# 3523
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Posted
quote:
To me, the obvious thing seems to be to keep saying 'good morning' every morning and leave it at that.
If saying good morning is just something that doesn't occur to him, you are reminding him.
If it is neurological, then you are beginning to build a framework within which he might start to feel comfortable.
If he is shy, you are maintaining a low level, non pressured friendliness, without demanding further conversation.
If he is just downright rude, then you are, at least, showing him you do not intend your behaviour to be affected by his rudeness.
M. Absolutely. ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
Seems the best (and obvious) approach to me. Why risk making the situation worse by confronting him about it?
(edited to provide quote for context, as top of new page)
[ 31. January 2014, 07:49: Message edited by: Gracious rebel ]
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Posts: 4413 | From: Suffolk UK | Registered: Nov 2002
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
Completely agree with M.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
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Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by venbede:
... I don't think he's autistic, just English. And he does respond to SS's greeting. She thinks he finds it awkward, but that's how it comes over to her. Just live and let live.
No, that isn't normal English behaviour. The normal English convention is that people greet their colleagues when they come into work, and say 'good night' to them when they leave. What they tend not to do, and feel uncomfortable with when someone does it to them, is project themselves into someone else's emotional space. In almost all places of work, there's quite a strong feeling that colleagues should strive to work together harmoniously, and that this is important.
It isn't usual though to go round shaking hands with everyone every morning and evening like they do in French films.
Others may disagree, but my impression is that cubicles, like in Dilbert, aren't all that common or popular in Britain. Managers like to be able to see what people are doing. Teamwork means people expect to engage with what each other is doing and not just themselves. Open Plan normally means exactly that.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
Someone I know on the autistic spectrum (spotted early) has with difficulty mastered the rules of this kind of social interaction. Occasionally you can almost see him processing "Ah! He has said this, so I must say that." He clearly works more easily with familiar people than unfamiliar. Conversation is sometimes a little stilted, and certain kinds of jokes and humour pass him by entirely.
You can't rule out that this man is simply rude and graceless, but it might be charitable to withhold that judgment until you've eliminated other possibilities.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
Why risk making the situation worse by confronting him about it?
Why not take the chance of improving the situation by gently pointing out that his behaviour is making a colleague uncomfortable and thus giving him the opportunity to explain or to change?
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"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin
Posts: 1877 | From: England | Registered: May 2003
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JoannaP:
quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
Why risk making the situation worse by confronting him about it?
Why not take the chance of improving the situation by gently pointing out that his behaviour is making a colleague uncomfortable and thus giving him the opportunity to explain or to change?
Because he's only a temp.
Because there's a good chance it would make matters worse.
Because he can say she makes him uncomfortable...
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
quote:
To me, the obvious thing seems to be to keep saying 'good morning' every morning and leave it at that.
If saying good morning is just something that doesn't occur to him, you are reminding him.
If it is neurological, then you are beginning to build a framework within which he might start to feel comfortable.
If he is shy, you are maintaining a low level, non pressured friendliness, without demanding further conversation.
If he is just downright rude, then you are, at least, showing him you do not intend your behaviour to be affected by his rudeness.
M. Absolutely.
Seems the best (and obvious) approach to me. Why risk making the situation worse by confronting him about it?
(edited to provide quote for context, as top of new page)
Adding my This is the way to go.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Gwai
Shipmate
# 11076
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Posted
See I have to admit I must be an anti-social freak, because I as I read this thread my first thought is "So the guy doesn't want to say hello. So just leave the guy alone!"
I might be influenced by the fact that often my co-workers and I don't say hello to each other until lunch. Certainly no obligatory hellos. C sits 20 feet from me at most, but when she comes in she usually goes straight to her computer without a word. If our eyes meet, we say hello, but often I'm in the middle of work, and she wants her coffee. And that's fine too.
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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.
Posts: 11914 | From: Chicago | Registered: Feb 2006
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George Spigot
Outcast
# 253
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Posted
Why do so many people on this thread feel entitled to social response? Nobody owes you a smile or a "good morning". He's not being rude at all. Being rude would involve him actively insulting the OP in some way. He's simply being neutral.
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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html
Posts: 1625 | From: Derbyshire - England | Registered: May 2001
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
See I have to admit I must be an anti-social freak, because I as I read this thread my first thought is "So the guy doesn't want to say hello. So just leave the guy alone!"
I might be influenced by the fact that often my co-workers and I don't say hello to each other until lunch. Certainly no obligatory hellos. C sits 20 feet from me at most, but when she comes in she usually goes straight to her computer without a word. If our eyes meet, we say hello, but often I'm in the middle of work, and she wants her coffee. And that's fine too.
Yes, same here. If people make eye contact and greet me I'll always reply, but I won't interrupt them if they're engaged in something. People can be unsociable first thing in the morning - it seems to be a growing trend now that most people don't have breakfast until they get to the office, which doesn't always help.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Liopleurodon
Mighty sea creature
# 4836
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Posted
I get a bit snippy with people responding to every event of bad manners or inappropriateness with "it's probably autism" and by extension "so you should pretend everything's fine." It may be or it may not be, and I can't possibly diagnose this guy from one bit of information about him.
However I do get irritated with this approach to autism. I'm diagnosed with Aspergers and pretty much everyone in my family is at least a bit autistic. Consider that Asperger's comes with a lack of talent at people skills, or a lack of intuition about them. That doesn't mean that pretending everything is wonderful helps. If I've offended you, I may need to be told directly that I've offended you, because I may not realise from the subtle non-verbal signs that people typically rely upon to express offence. What I don't need is for you to assume that I can't do any better and to sit there being unhappy with my behaviour while not saying anything. That doesn't help anyone. It's on a level with "sure she's dyslexic but let's just pretend that she spells everything correctly as it's not her fault."
If someone is high functioning enough to be in the workplace, then not saying hello to colleagues is rude. If they don't realise that it's rude because of a disability, it's still rude and they need to have that explained to them. If he is on the spectrum, then it may not be his fault that he doesn't know, but there's really no reason not to tell him.
Posts: 1921 | From: Lurking under the ship | Registered: Aug 2003
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Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
Why do so many people on this thread feel entitled to social response? Nobody owes you a smile or a "good morning". He's not being rude at all. Being rude would involve him actively insulting the OP in some way. He's simply being neutral.
I disagree. It is rude not to reply to "Good morning". There are plenty of ways to respond in a way that is not rude but makes it clear you don't want to start a conversation: a nod, perhaps, or by glancing up, saying "Morning", then looking back down at what you are doing.
He might not be being purposefully rude (I'd say it's unlikely that he is, although I only have what's written here to go on), and on the rudeness scale it's nowhere near as bad as insulting someone, or spilling their drink and not apologising. But surely acknowledging a greeting is one of those social graces that I'd expect people to be taught as a child.
If I were in the OP's situation, I'd go on saying "Good morning" even if I didn't get a response, but I wouldn't do anything else. Discussing it would be awkward. Trying to engage further conversation to provoke a response would be just as rude.
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
So it's been a few weeks now. The guy is still being a bit strange, but I would say that perhaps through conditioning he is now saying "Good Morning" on his own maybe once or twice a week, and responding in a slightly more normal fashion to me when I initiate (which I now do whenever he says nothing). I think he's also noticed that pretty much everyone says "Good morning" when they come into the office, including the senior directors.
I am certain he does not have any developmental issue (e.g. autism, Aspberger's). Someone mentioned that he was an independent consultant for a long period of time and had been working from home prior to joining. I think honestly he's just forgotten what is normal social behaviour in a workplace.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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The Phantom Flan Flinger
Shipmate
# 8891
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Someone mentioned that he was an independent consultant for a long period of time and had been working from home prior to joining. I think honestly he's just forgotten what is normal social behaviour in a workplace.
This strikes a chord - I have a friend who's social skills are shall we say limited.
He worked from home, mostly alone for many years, he then got a job as a part time lecturer. Being out working with other people improved his social skills somewhat. He's now bcak working on his own, and has regressed.
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Posts: 1020 | From: Leicester, England | Registered: Dec 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Count me in with the "why is this such a mortal
insult, people differ, leave him be" contingent.
The following is generally directed at the "he's so rude" folks, and not just at Seeking Sister.
I've worked with all sorts of people, in a variety of venues. A lot of folks are best left alone in the morning, or certain other times of day. Many are plain unapproachable, and you mentally practice any interactions before approaching their cubicles. Some people go ballistic if you ask them for an informal, verbal update on a project. Etc., etc.
Yeah, per social rules, maybe he does "owe" you a
modicum of attention. But *not* in any absolute
sense. Who knows why he doesn't greet you? Maybe it's ASD, or face blindness, or some other
diagnosable impairment. Maybe not greeting has
been perfectly acceptable in his previous work and social situations. Maybe he has personal problems, and it's all he can do to just show up and work. Maybe he's just very focused.
IMHO, it would be very rude to make a big production of civilizing him. Just maybe casually say "hey", once in a while, if you want to offer an opportunity for some kind of connection--but detach from the results, and don't work yourself up into being offended. Just be polite when you have to talk to him about work--and leave it at that.
I wonder if this is a Pond cultural difference??
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
(Sorry the above formatting is messy. Copied and pasted, and had to reformat by hand, and missed a couple of lines. Then I couldn't bring up Preview. Etc.)
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
(Sorry the above formatting is messy. Copied and pasted, and had to reformat by hand, and missed a couple of lines. Then I couldn't bring up Preview. Etc.)
Well, how rude! Clearly someone who can't be bothered to get the formatting right-- and really, it's not that hard, anyone can do it-- is really saying they think that taking the time to correctly format a post is beneath them. Clearly you think we're not worth the time and effort...!
(j/k of course. You are spot on in your not-all-that-badly formatted post. Not everything is about me)
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Cliffdweller--
You had me going--for a moment!
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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