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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oxymoronical Kakangelical
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I should be on EE's list because I think EE is so ridiculous that I suspect God might be punishing the Ship for its sins through him, like God punished the Kingdom of Judah though the Babylonians.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
This from EE:
if we can't express how we feel within the security of the anonymity of the internet, then where can we? (And if some people choose to use their real names on the internet, then that is their problem).
I chose to start using my real name on the ship some time ago because I realised (after receiving some rather robust "help" from certain shipmates) that I was prone to abusing the anonymity of the internet in order to be a jerk. It's been helpful, if not entirely successful. Perhaps you should try it, if 2014 sees fit to bring us a name change amnesty.
[ 06. January 2014, 14:26: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by Etymological Evangelical:
Now, Beeswax, old chum... please do tell me that I haven't a clue what I am talking about. C'mon, give me another laff, will yer...?
You don't have a clue what you are talking about. I didn't read that entire post. Just playing the odds...
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I'm often wrong, EE. I'd like to think that I generally admit as much when this has been pointed out to me.
I might be wrong in this instance - and unlike you I don't make claims to infallibility either implicitly or explicitly - but the only evidence I remember you supplying on the tongues thread was stuff about there being whacky whistling languages out in Peru or Outer Mongolia or somewhere or other ... which you seemed to regard as proof positive that what may or may not be going on with glossolalia in charismatic circles could fall into that category ... rather than being - as all the available evidence so far would seem to suggest - that glossolalia has little, if anything, in common with languages as we currently understand them.
It's a bit like the Pentecostal adoption of the idea of people speaking 'the tongues of angels' when it quickly became apparent that they weren't speaking Chinese or Indian languages as the original Penties believed.
They simply side-stepped the issue by seizing on a verse where the Apostle Paul is clearly speaking rhetorically.
That neither denies nor confirms the rights and wrongs and ins and outs of 'speaking in tongues' - but it's simply to suggest that the evidence - so far - isn't there for it being a language in any conventionally or scientifically/linguistically understood sense.
That's all I was saying. I can't remember you having any evidence to gainsay that contention. Perhaps I missed it.
Whatever the case, there does seem to be a groundswell of opinion here, from people who are sometimes at odds over other issues, that you've been acting like a twat.
I just happen to be one of those people. Ignore it if you wish, that's your prerogative, but generally there's a principle of things being established by several witnesses.
If it was just me suggesting that you were acting like a wanker on this particular point then there's every chance that I might be wrong. I called Jengie Jon to Hell recently and found that I was in a minority. Very few Shipmates 'backed me up' - which is fine. They are entitled not to.
But you're already listed the people who think you've been acting like a twat. Doesn't that tell you something? Doesn't it suggest, even if just a smidgeon, that they might have spotted something that you can't or won't?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Barnabas62
Shipmate
# 9110
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Posted
Just a suggestion. I read Jengie Jon's post in your Calvinism and sanctification thread in Purgatory. It contained a link to what I thought was a very reasonable summary of mainstream Calvinist understanding. I've also read Calvin on the subject in "The Institutes". He's a hard read, but so far as I can see, the summary in Jengie Jon's post is accurate and reasonable.
EE, why don't you re-enter your own thread in Purg and post your views on Jengie Jon's post and link? You can't really expect people who are fed up with the way you argue to engage with a serious discussion about how coherent or otherwise you are here in Hell. Wrong platform. Why not try to demonstrate your assertion by considered response to Jengie's well-considered and constructive post. You don't have to agree with it, after all.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I think that's a very good suggestion and indicates why Barnabas62 seems not to be called to Hell that often.
Whereas ...
![[Biased]](wink.gif) ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82
I should be on EE's list because I think EE is so ridiculous that I suspect God might be punishing the Ship for its sins through him, like God punished the Kingdom of Judah though the Babylonians.
Actually you're right. My views are clearly totally ridiculous. For example, it is bloody idiotic to think that God operates according to a concept of justice that bears even the remotest similarity to what any sane, normal, sentient, intelligent, compassionate human being associates with the word. If God wants to damn people from conception onwards, then fine. Send the little sods to burn in hell, for all I care. Yeah, that's it. To protest against this way of thinking is really ridiculous, don't you think? And to protest that such people were never given one single fleeting chance to escape this decreed fate from the first moment of their divinely cursed existence (without any consent given on their part), is so daft, dontcha think? I mean anyone with an ounce of genuine spirituality knows that there is no appreciable difference between the glorious Calvinist God of double predestination and Vlad the Impaler. But so what? Does it matter? I mean, as long the bastard loves little ol' ME, then all is well with the world, yeah...?
And isn't it just so "not cricket" to call those who think like this "morally insane"? I mean, what could have come over me? Don't I realise that this is now Airstrip One, and Big Brother has decreed that 2+2=5? Why am I so utterly ridiculous in insisting that 2+2=4? We are now in the Age of post-post-post-post-post-modernism, and I should really know better!! (Note to self: remember to be more diligent with your medication).
So thank you, all you sweet and lovely peeeeple (in your cosy little Christianny bubble), for making me see the error of my ways...
(Wankers)
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Again, you're missing the point.
Nobody's bothered about whether you agree with Calvinism or not. You're not a Calvinist. People know that. You've told them enough times.
No, this Hell call has nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of Calvinism and everything to do with you being a prat.
If you want to seriously engage with a debate about Calvinism and sanctification, take Barnasbas62's sensible advice and go and do so on the thread in Purgatory which you set up for that purpose.
It only spilled over into Hell when it got personal.
There was a rational debate going on until that point and there could still be.
If you're in a hole, stop digging.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82
I should be on EE's list because I think EE is so ridiculous that I suspect God might be punishing the Ship for its sins through him, like God punished the Kingdom of Judah though the Babylonians.
Actually you're right. My views are clearly totally ridiculous. For example, it is bloody idiotic to think that God operates according to a concept of justice that bears even the remotest similarity to what any sane, normal, sentient, intelligent, compassionate human being associates with the word. If God wants to damn people from conception onwards, then fine. Send the little sods to burn in hell, for all I care. Yeah, that's it. To protest against this way of thinking is really ridiculous, don't you think? And to protest that such people were never given one single fleeting chance to escape this decreed fate from the first moment of their divinely cursed existence (without any consent given on their part), is so daft, dontcha think? I mean anyone with an ounce of genuine spirituality knows that there is no appreciable difference between the glorious Calvinist God of double predestination and Vlad the Impaler. But so what? Does it matter? I mean, as long the bastard loves little ol' ME, then all is well with the world, yeah...?
And isn't it just so "not cricket" to call those who think like this "morally insane"? I mean, what could have come over me? Don't I realise that this is now Airstrip One, and Big Brother has decreed that 2+2=5? Why am I so utterly ridiculous in insisting that 2+2=4? We are now in the Age of post-post-post-post-post-modernism, and I should really know better!! (Note to self: remember to be more diligent with your medication).
So thank you, all you sweet and lovely peeeeple (in your cosy little Christianny bubble), for making me see the error of my ways...
(Wankers)
Too busy fitting the cattle for sack-cloth and ashes to read your usual block-o-text, EE. Maybe if we repent, God will remove his terrible wrath from us.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
If you're in a hole, stop digging.
Oh yeah, I'm in a deep hole and sinking fast (help!!!), because I am just sooooo intimidated by all these very clever and important people who have taken it upon themselves to sort me out. And we all know that you are the most important person of the lot, and I should really hang on your every word. I mean, just what would poor little me do without someone as special as you, dear Gamaliel.
(Fuck me, this medication is kicking in...)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
It took hundreds of words of the most inane bullshitty lies...
So you accuse everybody else of lying? And then whine that they are insulting you? What self-pitying self-righteous rubbish. Why the fuck should anyone read your post when you start off being so vile and insulting as to call them liars?
And no, I'm not likely to get into an argument on a subject lile this with someone who calls me a liar. What would be the point? They've already proved they are just sounding off and not listening.
(There is sometimes use in replying sensibly to someone who claims you are lying, but its mainly for the benefit of third parties. But as no-one taking part in this thread is falling for EE's stance that doesn't apply here. It's kind of blatantly obvious that even those posters whose beliefs are far closer to EEs than to Daron's think EE has gone too far here. That ought to be a Clue. Maybe he should calm down, take a step back, and try to hear what his own voice sounds like)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
EE:
Do you have any principled objection to saying how old you are?
I would be willing to reciprocate.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I once seriously miscalculated EE's age and guessed at it. I was way out.
Mind you, his adolescent behaviour belies his real age.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
Ah yes...the "how old are you?" technique that internet losers use to avoid engaging in proper debate.
Now let me see...let's say I'm 12. Happy now? Or is that not low enough to give you your thrill for the day?
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
Now let me see...let's say I'm 12.
You said I was 12! You seem to have some sort of obsession with 12 year olds.
Sorry for late reply by the way, I'm reading Richard Aldrich's fascinating book about GCHQ, imaginitvely entitled GCHQ. It's far more interesting than you EE, but I'm nothing if not conscientious about abusing you regularly.
Wanker.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
Now look what you've done EE, you've made me start to almost like deano.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
Happy to be of service!
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
The trouble is, EE, plenty of us here have tried to engage you in debate over the months and years.
We find it frustrating for some reason. That's why we call you to Hell.
Obviously it's all our own fault for not having as high a view of your spiritual maturity and intellectual abilities as you so clearly have yourself.
Take ken's advice. Read your posts and listen to how you sound.
I suspect you've got a filter fitted though, so that you don't sound as much as a prat to yourself as you sound to almost everyone else.
So everyone else must be wrong ...
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
You seem strangely obsessed with me, Gamaliel. Haven't you got a life to go to?
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Don't flatter yourself.
I'll go to bed now and I'll wipe you off the soles of my shitty boots tomorrow ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
Now let me see...let's say I'm 12.
You said I was 12! You seem to have some sort of obsession with 12 year olds.
Everybody knows that when you turn 13, you can leave here and go get a Facebook account instead.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
Ah yes...the "how old are you?" technique that internet losers use to avoid engaging in proper debate.
After all these hell calls, you still think they're about the debate? ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
IT'S ABOUT YOUR ATTITUDE!!!
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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
Don't flatter yourself.
Thanks to all the attention my self-appointed shrink is giving me, I don't actually need to.
But I am sure you must have more useful things to do in life. (Or maybe not??)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
I'm back, after doing some useful things.
EE, if it's a debate you want, go to the thread that Barnabas62 has recommended. The one you started and seem to have abandoned.
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=018599
I don't know why, but people are still cutting you some slack and willing to engage in debate with you.
Sure, it takes two to tango and two to argue ... but you've only got yourself to blame for this Hell thread.
Daronmedway didn't call you here because you disagreed with him about Calvinism. Plenty of people here disagree with Calvinism.
As Irishlord said, it's about your attitude.
Take Barnabas62's advice and go to the thread on 'Calvinism and sanctification' if you want a proper debate.
Take ken's advice and read your posts to yourself and see how you sound and come across. It doesn't sound pretty.
If you lack the self-awareness to realise how much of a prat you're coming across as, then that's nobody's fault but your own.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
EE, I'll try to explain why I tend not to answer your questions.
When you ask a question it is helpful if you ask it in a way that actually invites a response. This, sadly, is not a characteristic of the way you ask questions.
Your questions tend to contain elements of goading and mockery that actually serve as a strong disincentive to answering. For example, you'll say something like, "Answer me if you can." Or, "Present your evidence if you're not a coward." Or, "I'd like to hear an answer, are you capable of that?"
There seems to be very little genuine curiosity in your questions and that's why I show little enthusiasm in answering them. If you change your tone and address I might be inclined to answer, but as it stands I don't see much point.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway
When you ask a question it is helpful if you ask it in a way that actually invites a response. This, sadly, is not a characteristic of the way you ask questions.
Your questions tend to contain elements of goading and mockery that actually serve as a strong disincentive to answering. For example, you'll say something like, "Answer me if you can." Or, "Present your evidence if you're not a coward." Or, "I'd like to hear an answer, are you capable of that?"
There seems to be very little genuine curiosity in your questions and that's why I show little enthusiasm in answering them. If you change your tone and address I might be inclined to answer, but as it stands I don't see much point.
Well, if you think that you can make me feel ashamed or embarrassed you need to think again, because what you fail to realise is that I actually check out evidence, and am not swayed by bluff and bullshit. That is why I generally laugh at the patronising crap that Gamaliel comes out with. (He tries to market himself as the do-gooder and peacemaker on this site, but he is anything but. The worst case of smarminess I have ever seen. He must think I was born yesterday, if he imagines I can't see through his bluster).
As for the evidence, shall we investigate it?
This is the offending post which sparked this ridiculous hell call:
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway
I realised after the event that God had been disciplining me quite severely.
I can't quite understand that, according to your theology. Couldn't the sovereign God just issue an irresistible decree for you to be delivered from all shortcomings?
Or perhaps it's a case that a doctrine that seems to work well on paper doesn't quite cut it in real life?
1) The first sentence is a statement about my own inability to understand what you said in the previous post, in terms of how it coheres with your Calvinistic theology. Does this statement contain any nasty language? Answer: NO.
2) The second sentence is a question. Now you accuse me of lacking curiosity. Hence that is why I ask questions! But I suppose you think this is a snide rhetorical question. Let's have a look at it: "Couldn't the sovereign God just issue an irresistible decree for you to be delivered from all shortcomings?"
Now this could be a snide rhetorical question, or it might not be. In other words, it's in the eye of the beholder. Now why should I be effectively censored from asking legitimate questions - in sensible and non-nasty language - because I have to kowtow to other people's totally subjective sensibilities? That is not encouraging debate (remember that you accused me earlier of stifling debate), but undermining it.
It's a perfectly simple, straightforward question: "Why, when you believe that you have been predestined to salvation by irresistible grace, do you believe that God cannot use the same method to deliver you from your shortcomings, especially given that sanctification is what salvation is actually all about - i.e. salvation from evil?"
3) The third sentence is a bit of speculation on my part, anticipating a certain answer, and making the point that if this Calvinistic theology is incoherent, then it doesn't work in real life, but only "on paper". Now if you think that this metaphor is snide, then fine. But I think this approach is entirely in keeping with the culture of the Ship (even in Purgatory), and I would be quite happy to give you many examples, from many 'regulars', of language used which is far more snide than that comment. And, of course, few of these 'regulars' get the kind of pathetic hell calls that I get. For example, IngoB frequently peppers his Purg comments with "that's bullshit etc", and yes, there was a long hell thread about him needing to take up golf, but it was nowhere near as vituperative as the stream of sheer nastiness (and patronising nonsense from a certain quarter) I have read on this thread towards me (not that I give a damn what such people think anyway).
Now I know that this is a "tu quoque" argument, but when the Ship allows a certain culture, it is not unreasonable to assume that people can take a bit of colourful phraseology. Frankly, I don't know how you would cope in many fora - say in the House of Commons - if you are really so sensitive about the precise form of words people use when debating what are extremely important issues. And the great irony is that you, as a Calvinist, look to a person whose nastiness and vituperation towards his theological opponents makes me look obsequiously polite!
And what was your response to my enquiry?
A total refusal to answer the question.
Now, to be fair, I suppose you could have dismissed my question by saying it was a tangent. Fair enough. But you didn't say that, did you?
The reason why I am probably a bit more strident on the issue of predestination, is because I regard as so serious. The general attitude seems to be that "it doesn't really matter" and "what's all the fuss about?" This is Gamaliel's general approach to everything, it seems. Every issue is just brushed under the carpet of ambiguity, and as long as we can all be 'nice' to each other, who cares? I don't really understand why he hasn't asked the administrators to close down the Purg board, because he doesn't seem interested in truth at all.
A God who brings people into the world, allows them to be infected with a sin nature - without their consent - refuses to provide the only means by which their sin nature could be defeated, and then condemns them to an unspeakably horrific fate (far worse than all the worst atrocities man has ever committed) for doing what they could not help doing (due to their putative bound will), is a God who is no different from the devil. To advocate the worship of this 'God' is just sheer blasphemy. It's that serious. To expect people to not have strong and angry feelings about this doctrine, is unreasonable. Just like the Apostle Paul was stirred up by the sight of idols, and just as Jesus Himself did not mince His words when rebuking the Pharisees (calling them snakes and dead men's bones), so I have very strong feelings about an idea which is so awful, and so delusional, and so destructive, that words almost fail me at times. What you want (and more so, the spineless Gamaliel) is for me to just roll over, smile sweetly, and say that this idea is a perfectly valid view of God, but one with which I just happen to disagree, but "it doesn't really matter if other people believe it", because as long as we all get on, that's all that matters.
I would have thought that any believer would appreciate that, as Christians, we have strong feelings about our faith. What kind of Christianity is it, which is completely insipid, and not fit for purpose? It might be 'fun', but it's useless.
So, to sum up: no, I don't think you have a valid point.
(Of course, you may quote later posts that are rather cantankerous, but honesty should compel you to look at the context of those, and realise that they were responses to provocation.)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
It might be an idea, EE, to disregard what I've written on this thread and simply read what everyone else has said. Without my contributions it still adds up to people considering that your tone is angry, confrontational and know-it-all ... as if you and you alone are in possession of the moral high ground.
This ain't about Calvinism nor how serious an error it may or may not be - that's for the thread in Purgatory.
This is all about your posting style and attitude. Which you seem pathologically incapable of amending or even acknowledging that it might come across rather arsey.
Don't ask me, ask daronmedway, Beeswax Altar, ken, various other contributors to this thread ... 'out of the mouths of many witnesses.'
I don't think I've come across that many Shipmates who are so cock-sure of themselves, self-righteous and full of their own bullshit as you are.
Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yShvgXZQBTs
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
A God who brings people into the world, allows them to be infected with a sin nature - without their consent - refuses to provide the only means by which their sin nature could be defeated, and then condemns them to an unspeakably horrific fate (far worse than all the worst atrocities man has ever committed) for doing what they could not help doing (due to their putative bound will), is a God who is no different from the devil. To advocate the worship of this 'God' is just sheer blasphemy.
For what it's worth, EE, I share your bafflement as to how people can worship God if this is their concept of what God is like. And ISTM this is where Calvinism (at least some variants of it) leaves us, unless you and I have both severely misunderstood.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
quote:
This from EE:
What you want <snip> is for me to just roll over, smile sweetly, and say that this idea is a perfectly valid view of God, but one with which I just happen to disagree, but "it doesn't really matter if other people believe it", because as long as we all get on, that's all that matters.
No, I want you to be civil.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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deano
princess
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Posted
I recognise EE's "issues". I have a teenage daughter who is moody and argumentative as well. You really have to tread carefully when talking to her as she can turn anything into a row!
This BBC News page is about a Study of Adolescent Brains being conducted to try to figure out why they are such moody, angry and argumentative buggers.
I think EE - being an adolescent himself - is suffereing from a brain that isn't fully formed, and is soaking in an unbalanced stew of hormones, hence he is angry and unfocused and just stroppy.
Stop his pocket money and take his texting and facebook privileges away until he calms down and starts to act like the adult he wants us to treat him as.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
@South Coast Kevin - it seems to me that those are all perfectly valid objections to Calvinism and Calvinists would undoubtedly have answers to them. That's what Purgatory is for.
You're here in Hell already, but nobody would call you to Hell for making those points. If this were Purgatory they would simply debate them with you in a civil and rational manner.
Once again, this has got nothing to do with objections to Calvinism, valid or otherwise but everything to do with EE's attitude and angry posting style.
Ok, we can all be guilty of that at times. I certainly can. Daronmedway accused EE of flame-baiting, trying to inflame an argument and pick a fight for the sake of it. Eutychus, on another thread, in his Hostly capacity, warned him off from doing the same thing.
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=018588;p=3#000146
The difference was that daronmedway accepted it in good grace.
EE doesn't accept that he was being obnoxious. He clearly believes that he's on some kind of self-appointed crusade to expose the evils of Calvinism.
You'll see me having a 'dig' at Calvinism at times, Zach82 has 'called' me on it a number of times.
It's not having a pop at Calvinism that;s the issue but the know-it-all, I'm right, everyone else is wrong kind of attitude displayed in EE's posts.
Can anyone - other than EE himself - tell me that it's possible to read his rants and justifications here and not conclude that he is a pompous, self-righteous arse?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway
No, I want you to be civil.
Actually what you want is to use the issue of civility as a smokescreen to excuse yourself from addressing the issues I have raised. I notice that you ignored virtually the whole of my last post, which is rather telling, and it suggests to me that you are not at all serious or honest about the concerns you have expressed.
quote:
Originally posted by deano
I recognise EE's "issues". I have a teenage daughter who is moody and argumentative as well. You really have to tread carefully when talking to her as she can turn anything into a row!
This BBC News page is about a Study of Adolescent Brains being conducted to try to figure out why they are such moody, angry and argumentative buggers.
I think EE - being an adolescent himself - is suffereing from a brain that isn't fully formed, and is soaking in an unbalanced stew of hormones, hence he is angry and unfocused and just stroppy.
Stop his pocket money and take his texting and facebook privileges away until he calms down and starts to act like the adult he wants us to treat him as.
Hee hee. I know, deano, that you feel a duty to abuse me, and I am very happy to help you get your little thrill in life (someone has to do it!). It must be lonely in that bedsit of yours without any friends, so I fully understand your compulsion.
But don't you think this is being just a tad greedy? Four whole paragraphs of 'abuse'. I mean, did I actually agree to that in the contract?
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
Ok, we can all be guilty of that at times.
If you admit this, then stop playing the hypocrite. Or is this just another example of your smug and smarmy fake humility, to try and con people into thinking that you are a paragon of maturity and reason? The only reason you wrote that post is because you couldn't stomach the fact that someone (in this case SCK) wrote something that wasn't abusive towards me, but could be interpreted as supportive. So you had to condescendingly explain to him that you were 'with' him, but "do please agree with me that EE is an idiot". Honestly, you are so pathetic at times. What it must be like to live with someone like you doesn't bear thinking about, quite honestly.
You are, by your own admission, as much a shitbag as anyone else. So spare us all the "oh but I have my weaknesses, but I am just trying to help others with their poor attitude" bullshit.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Zach82
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# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Actually what you want is to use the issue of civility as a smokescreen to excuse yourself from addressing the issues I have raised.
Holy shit, EE is a fucking psychic!
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
I was just thinking the same. He can obviously read my mind and knows the true motivation for my post upthread in response to South Coast Kevin.
Consequently, I perceive he is a prophet, and more than a Prophet. Verily he hath the ability to fathom all Mysteries and all Knowledge.
Instead of calling him to Hell we should be falling down before him and acknowledging his true and Godlike wisdom.
In fact, we have been missing out on a truth that is now becoming increasingly obvious ...
EE is the Messiah!
Let us fall down and worship him ...
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
But there's one thing that has eluded Egotistical Evangelarsehole ...
I'm not trying to help him with his bad attitude.
I'm trying to get it into his thick, self-absorbed skull that he's got a bad attitude in the first place.
It's not just me. Practically everyone else here thinks the same.
South Coast Kevin is a nice guy and probably doesn't think badly of anyone. So he doesn't count ...
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Yes, I'm a shitbag. At least I acknowledge it. As for you, you never acknowledge when you're wrong. In fact, you never think you are ever bloody wrong.
You are so full of your own shit that you can't even smell it anymore.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
Families:I love the see less flow of sentiment from the last bit if your post, to your footer!
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
I'm thinking of calling iPads, safari and autocorrect (aka auto buggerups) to Hell, Gamaliel aka Families.
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
This from EE:
What you want <snip> is for me to just roll over, smile sweetly, and say that this idea is a perfectly valid view of God, but one with which I just happen to disagree, but "it doesn't really matter if other people believe it", because as long as we all get on, that's all that matters.
No, I want you to be civil.
What, here?
At least 80% of this thread has been Proof By Assertion. Some have posted nothing but that. Remember that when Hosts have to read this shit.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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daronmedway
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# 3012
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
quote:
This from EE:
What you want <snip> is for me to just roll over, smile sweetly, and say that this idea is a perfectly valid view of God, but one with which I just happen to disagree, but "it doesn't really matter if other people believe it", because as long as we all get on, that's all that matters.
No, I want you to be civil.
What, here?
No, in Purgatory during normal debate. I opened this thread because EE's persistent incivility had become irritating. Personally I don't care for much of what gets posted here in Hell, including much of the "counter-incivility" directed towards EE. I just want to formally tell EE that his incivility means that I don't wish engage him in debate at present. On any board.
[ 07. January 2014, 19:10: Message edited by: daronmedway ]
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82
Holy shit, EE is a fucking psychic!
Yes he is. In the fine tradition of Hercule Poirot.
(By the way... ever heard of something called "logic"?
No, I didn't think so.)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Beeswax Altar
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# 11644
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Posted
Just because one has heard of a word doesn't mean one knows what that word means. You've obviously heard the word logic and like typing it. However, a previous Hell thread indicates you don't know what it means. Everything you know about logic you learned from watching the original Star Trek. Even then, you think you are Spock but really you are the guy in the red shirt that beams down with Kirk, Spock, and McCoy.
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
In fact, we have been missing out on a truth that is now becoming increasingly obvious ...
EE is the Messiah!
He's not the Messiah... he's a very naughty boy!!
(I can't believe I got that in before anyone else!)
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
There's only three people reading the thread deano.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
He's not even a very naughty boy, he's just a pillock.
He hasn't the first idea about logic and whenever he opens his mouth he speaks out of his arse.
The irony is that he's so lacking in self-awareness that he thinks he's cleverer than he actually is - ie. not very - and bandies words like 'logic' around without having the first idea what he's fucking talking about.
The guy is a twat of the first order.
He's the biggest twat aboard Ship by a long chalk - and that's saying something.
Anyone who can unite people as disparate as Deano, Beeswax Altar, Irish Lord, ken, Orfeo, daronmedway and Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and All must be a fucking car crash.
And, as far as I can tell, he's still not engaging properly with the serious debate about Calvinism in Purgatory but simply sounding off here about how hard done by he is and how fucking cleverer he is than everyone else. The irony is exquisite.
Egotistical Evangellifisharsehole.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway
No, I want you to be civil.
Actually what you want is to use the issue of civility as a smokescreen to excuse yourself from addressing the issues I have raised. I notice that you ignored virtually the whole of my last post, which is rather telling, and it suggests to me that you are not at all serious or honest about the concerns you have expressed.
Oh for heaven's sake. Or rather Purgatory's sake.
No-one here needs an excuse to ignore your points. They're free to ignore them if they feel like it. No-one has signed up for the paid job of being your adviser.
I think that's half your problem, frankly. You come to the Ship, whether Purg or Hell and stand there saying ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME! ANSWER ME!
It's rude and it's annoying and it encourages people to disengage from you.
[ 07. January 2014, 21:14: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
There's only three people reading the thread deano.
They are orfeo, comet & Sioni Sais. The rest of you are just writing to the poor thing.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Indeed.
Perhaps we should simply stop feeding the troll, Sioni and give you guys a break?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway
I just want to formally tell EE that his incivility means that I don't wish engage him in debate at present. On any board.
Hmmm... well, I always knew Calvinism couldn't stand up to scrutiny.
Thanks for confirming that!
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel
Anyone who can unite people as disparate as Deano, Beeswax Altar, Irish Lord, ken, Orfeo, daronmedway and Old Uncle Tom Cobleigh and All must be a fucking car crash.
Boo hoo, I seem to have lost the X-Factor Beauty Contest. Oh I am sooooo gutted!
Some of us had a proper education, but it seems that little short pants Gamaliel is still struggling to master the politics of the playground, with its little cliques and gangs. It's tragic that someone who is in his 50's has a mental age of ... (well you finish the sentence...). But there you have it. Sad but true.
I know there's a fog around your mind, Gamaliel, so you can't think clearly, but in the hope (probably a vain hope) that something might penetrate the nihilistic gloom that is your 'intellect', let me spell it out for you:
I don't give a shit what a bunch of smarmy losers on the internet think of me. If you really want to humiliate me, this is the way to do it: cut out all the post-modernist crap, and come up with some decent arguments for once (instead of fobbing me off with "ooh it's all so ambiguous" and "it's all a load of myths" blah blah blah). It's not a lot to ask. You never know, I might just surprise you by conceding some points...
The insults have no effect. I am just sitting here laughing my head off. It's a pantomime. In fact, I even feel a certain faint liking for deano (note to self: steady on old chap!!).
You are so screwed up, man. You just can't live with someone who doesn't buy into your post-modernist "everything is ambiguous" crap. It's obvious to me that you don't believe in objective truth, and you have taken it upon yourself to act as a rather smarmy, smug and supercilious self-appointed referee on the Ship to undermine anyone who makes any truth claims. It's so pathetic. It's a scam, and you're a spiritual scammer. I refuse to fall for it, that is why you keep going on and on and on at me. You really need to do some serious growing up, mate.
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
The irony is delicious.
You're the most immature twat on these boards, EE.
Admit it.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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