homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Dignitas (Page 3)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Dignitas
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29

 - Posted      Profile for Siegfried   Author's homepage   Email Siegfried   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by dv:
quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
Have you got a citation for an article NOT from a explictly biased source?
From the "About Us" link on that source--

quote:
LifeNews.com is an independent news agency devoted to reporting news that affects the pro-life community.


There are plenty more articles in similar vein. Google is your friend. Of course they tend to be found on pro-life sites; pro-killing sites tend to emphasize how consensual everything is. The mainstream media (as with abortion) usually follows the latter narrative. All roses and apple pie.
Sorry--you made a claim. You shouldn't expect us to do your research for you. Either pony up something from a neutral source (There must be something out there if your claim is true), or expect your argument to be discounted.
BTW--Pro-killing? Really? Talk about loaded words... Vilification of those with opposing views is rather poor technique and a tacit admission your side isn't able to win on merits.

--------------------
Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!

Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

 - Posted      Profile for no prophet's flag is set so...   Author's homepage   Email no prophet's flag is set so...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Latimer case in Canada is one which informed many of us. Also Sue Rodriguez.

It is interesting that the language may be euthanasia, assisted suicide, and I don't think I hear 'mercy killing' as much any more.

Latimer had used carbon monoxide to end the life of his daughter who was in a lot of pain. Rodriguez lost a supreme court case to legalise assisted suicide. She had ALS and did an assisted suicide any way.

--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169

 - Posted      Profile for Leaf     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Referring to the Latimer case is IMO extremely unhelpful when discussing assisted suicide. Suicide means "killing oneself intentionally." Tracey Latimer had severe developmental delays and was non-verbal. No one has ever thought or said that she was capable of forming the intent to kill herself.

Sue Rodriguez, on the other hand, was capable of forming the intent to take her own life, and of communicating this desire.

In this context, reference to the Latimer case only serves to jack up the anxieties of disabled people that they will be euthanized. For the record then: euthanasia and assisted suicide ARE NOT THE SAME THING. You might as well refer to the killing of one sniper by another sniper, or drunk driving, or pollution, if you are going to refer to all manner of human-caused death as being somehow in the same category.

Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

 - Posted      Profile for no prophet's flag is set so...   Author's homepage   Email no prophet's flag is set so...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Oh, but I think the worries of disabled people are part of this. Thus Latimer is relevant. And those who cannot speak for themselves cannot be excluded. Would someone be persuaded that they should end their life and then not so freely choose to do so? I think it is probable. How far away is the idea of making the most humane decision for someone who cannot make the decision for themselves. Not far in my view.

--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492

 - Posted      Profile for Sir Kevin   Author's homepage   Email Sir Kevin   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Culling old people is evil, pure and simple: it's homicide!

--------------------
If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
Uncle Pete

Loyaute me lie
# 10422

 - Posted      Profile for Uncle Pete     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
Oh, but I think the worries of disabled people are part of this. Thus Latimer is relevant. And those who cannot speak for themselves cannot be excluded. Would someone be persuaded that they should end their life and then not so freely choose to do so? I think it is probable. How far away is the idea of making the most humane decision for someone who cannot make the decision for themselves. Not far in my view.

Latimer is not relevant at all. In this case, a helpless child was murdered. Latimer freely admitted this, but claimed extenuating circumstances. He served time, and the Parole Board granted him parole on the grounds that he was unlikely to reoffend.

Unless he had another disabled child, I'm sure.

The fear of many disabled people is that they might be left in the tender care of people who think like Latimer.

He certainly is no misunderstood father, and has never expressed regret for taking Tracey's life.

--------------------
Even more so than I was before

Posts: 20466 | From: No longer where I was | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169

 - Posted      Profile for Leaf     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
PeteC: This, exactly. Thank you.

no prophet: There is so little clarity to be had in these discussions, that it profits little to remove such as there may be. Every time someone cries "slippery slope!" someone else cries "moral panic!" and the discussion is left at a stalemate.

Assisted suicide is different from euthanasia in the category of intent and communication. Anyone who is feeling suicidal for any reason ought to receive treatment for it. (It may be useful to discuss the proposed time frame of such treatment.) However, if the person can present compelling reasons after attempted treatment why they may still desire a medically assisted suicide, I think they should receive a hearing, and possibly the help they desire.

I would do everything in my power to persuade that person their life has value. But failing my attempt to persuade, I cannot in good conscience dictate to a competent person the value of their life. To "love my neighbour" is not to insist that my definition of their life supersede their own self-chosen definition. Suffering and death are intensely personal. My insistence on someone else enduring suffering for the sake of the God in which I believe, if they do not share my belief, is horrendously unethical. YMMV.

Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools