|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: The wearing of jeans
|
GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But how are jeans not respectful? They are not revealing or anything.
Also being reverent does not mean wearing formal clothes, and we are to worship God all the time and not just for an hour on Sunday. It's that attitude which is making people leave the church in droves.
It depends. A lot of times, the fashion is to wear jeans that are too tight, or that are "distressed," or to wear them too low, etc. It is easier for everyone to avoid them rather than try to evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. Also, jeans are often paired with other clothing that I would consider too informal.
I would not say that jeans are not respectful, but rather that there is other attire that is more respectful.
As for worship, you are right that we should not only worship God for that little time on Sunday morning, but rather, should glorify him all the time in everything we do. I would single out Sunday in particular, however, as it is the Sabbath that God has set aside, not to work, but to worship Him.
--------------------
The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But how are jeans not respectful? They are not revealing or anything.
Also being reverent does not mean wearing formal clothes, and we are to worship God all the time and not just for an hour on Sunday. It's that attitude which is making people leave the church in droves.
It depends. A lot of times, the fashion is to wear jeans that are too tight, or that are "distressed," or to wear them too low, etc. It is easier for everyone to avoid them rather than try to evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. Also, jeans are often paired with other clothing that I would consider too informal.
I would not say that jeans are not respectful, but rather that there is other attire that is more respectful.
As for worship, you are right that we should not only worship God for that little time on Sunday morning, but rather, should glorify him all the time in everything we do. I would single out Sunday in particular, however, as it is the Sabbath that God has set aside, not to work, but to worship Him.
But how does formal clothing equal a more reverent attitude to worship? You could be in shorts and t-shirt and fully attuned to worshipping God, and in formal clothing (not sure what exactly you mean by more formal clothing anyway) but not really 'there'. Worship is a matter of the heart and clothing is irrelevant.
In any case, surely formal clothing demands a formal occasion? Church shouldn't be formal but should be informal and friendly. I don't own any more formal clothes - should I just not bother going to church then? My church has zero problem with me wearing jeans and doesn't assume I am somehow disrespecting God.
--------------------
Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
|
Posted
I think wearing jeans to church is preferable to turning a church service into a fashion show, where people are trying to one-up each other with the latest designs.
--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
I suppose places like GCabot's have their uses - by disapproving of my chosen attire, they've outed themselves well in advance as places I'd not want to have as my regular church anyway. Saves time. Formality always tells me something's not for me. I don't think that's a helpful thing for church to be telling me.
[ 12. June 2014, 10:28: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
I should add - I'm just joshing with the jeans colour thing. But I have to say it seems no sillier to me than having a hang up about jeans in the first place.
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Alwyn
Shipmate
# 4380
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
... in today's increasingly casual society, dressing with some degree of formality helps to distinguish profane time from sacred time.
If it works for you, great.
As I see it, to misquote Terry Pratchett's character Dorfl (from Feet of Clay) 'all time is sacred or none is'.
--------------------
Post hoc, ergo propter hoc
Posts: 849 | From: UK | Registered: Apr 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I think wearing jeans to church is preferable to turning a church service into a fashion show, where people are trying to one-up each other with the latest designs.
Jeans are often worn as a fashion item, at least by young people in the UK. Have you never been to a fashion store and seen how many different varieties there are? And depending on where you shop, a 'churchy' polyester or cotton skirt can cost less than a pair of women's jeans.
But most English churches don't have any set rules about how to dress (although some of the Pentecostals used to be quite particular about this). If there are problems these days it'll be down to the occasional instances of inward-looking, declining churches whose very elderly members have lost interest in reaching out to a wider demographic. Free-spirited wearers of jeans probably wouldn't want to worship there anyway.....
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
Interesting. I don't regard wearing jeans as free spirited but as very conventional.
In fact, I find it astonishing that we're having this conversation. It wasn't a conversation in the 70's when I became a christian, just what people wore. The age profile of jeans wearers has probably increased, I suppose.
M.
[ 13. June 2014, 06:38: Message edited by: M. ]
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
|
Posted
I'm wondering if it's a pond difference... most churches in the UK are just glad if you turn up, whatever you're wearing.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Interesting. I don't regard wearing jeans as free spirited but as very conventional.
In fact, I find it astonishing that we're having this conversation. It wasn't a conversation in the 70's when I became a christian, just what people wore. The age profile of jeans wearers has probably increased, I suppose.
M.
Aye. They're not particularly conventional nor free spirited. They're just what people wear. Which is one of the reasons I can't get my head around their being singled out as "inappropriate."
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
I'm wondering if it's a pond difference... most churches in the UK are just glad if you turn up, whatever you're wearing.
Indeed. If you're under 50 many churches'd be all over you like a cheap suit if you turned up just wearing a jock strap and tie.
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But how are jeans not respectful? They are not revealing or anything.
Also being reverent does not mean wearing formal clothes, and we are to worship God all the time and not just for an hour on Sunday. It's that attitude which is making people leave the church in droves.
It depends. A lot of times, the fashion is to wear jeans that are too tight, or that are "distressed," or to wear them too low, etc. It is easier for everyone to avoid them rather than try to evaluate them on a case-by-case basis. Also, jeans are often paired with other clothing that I would consider too informal.
I would not say that jeans are not respectful, but rather that there is other attire that is more respectful.
As for worship, you are right that we should not only worship God for that little time on Sunday morning, but rather, should glorify him all the time in everything we do. I would single out Sunday in particular, however, as it is the Sabbath that God has set aside, not to work, but to worship Him.
But how does formal clothing equal a more reverent attitude to worship? You could be in shorts and t-shirt and fully attuned to worshipping God, and in formal clothing (not sure what exactly you mean by more formal clothing anyway) but not really 'there'. Worship is a matter of the heart and clothing is irrelevant.
In any case, surely formal clothing demands a formal occasion? Church shouldn't be formal but should be informal and friendly. I don't own any more formal clothes - should I just not bother going to church then? My church has zero problem with me wearing jeans and doesn't assume I am somehow disrespecting God.
I never claimed that formal clothing necessarily equated a more reverent attitude. What I have been trying to say is that it can help focus one on worshipping the Lord. While it is certainly possible for one to worship conscientiously in a t-shirt and shorts, I find that dressing casually begets a casual mindset, even if only unconsciously.
I am unsure why you equate more formality with unfriendliness. Frankly, your attitude towards more formal clothing evidences far more hostility than anything I have discussed in the reverse. If you are so uncomfortable outside of jeans and own nothing else, then so be it. It makes no sense to dress more formally if it actually detracts from your ability to focus on worshipping God. No one is going to judge you on your personal piety. I merely seek to defend the practice of those parishes where more formality remains the norm.
--------------------
The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But how does formal clothing equal a more reverent attitude to worship? You could be in shorts and t-shirt and fully attuned to worshipping God, and in formal clothing (not sure what exactly you mean by more formal clothing anyway) but not really 'there'. Worship is a matter of the heart and clothing is irrelevant.
Would you go to a wedding or a funeral in jeans, trainers and a T-shirt with a slogan on the front, or would you make a bit of an effort to wear something nice for the occasion?
Same with church.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
There have been many sartorial shifts in recent years- it is now exceptional to run into a jacket (let alone a suit) and shirt and tie in any but the more formal offices-- upper echelons of the public service and academia as well as the legal profession. Everywhere else, "smart casual" appears to rule the day. One of the doctors who works in my GP's group practice wears a tie and is considered to be very very old-fashioned.
In most circumstances, formal wear for men no longer requires a tie, and a simple pressed shirt and trousers suffices. And in non-work situations, formal wear now includes good jeans (i.e., fitting, no holes, and clean) and even a Tshirt (without slogans). I attend one of the stuffier Anglican temples in Ottawa, and no eyebrows would be raised at such attire. And, as I mentioned above, our amazonian summers permits us walking shorts.
This would not have been acceptable ten years ago and, in churches with a predominantly African or Caribbean presence, it would not be (my comments apply to Anglican circles, as I find that RC worshippers dress down considerably).
Pace GCabot and Ariel, the jeans- and Tshirt-wearing worshippers likely think that they are respectably dressed, and it might well be that this helps them focus and take their presence seriously and with greater devotion.
I tend to the dressier side and, on voting in advance polls last week, the poll clerk complimented me on my ascot and jacket (which I often wear to the 8.30 am of a Sunday); I noted that I took the act of voting seriously and a little ceremony does not go amiss.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
|
Posted
People can dress as they like at church, it doesn't bother me. All I'm saying is that IME an individual churchgoer at the average mainstream church is more likely to be wearing jeans if they belong to certain demographic categories. And I suggest that people outside those categories - in some churches - might be more noticeable and hence feel more self-conscious if they're wearing jeans.
I'm aware that many people posting on the Ship attend the sorts of churches where no one really cares about such trivial things. That's great!
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But how does formal clothing equal a more reverent attitude to worship? You could be in shorts and t-shirt and fully attuned to worshipping God, and in formal clothing (not sure what exactly you mean by more formal clothing anyway) but not really 'there'. Worship is a matter of the heart and clothing is irrelevant.
Would you go to a wedding or a funeral in jeans, trainers and a T-shirt with a slogan on the front, or would you make a bit of an effort to wear something nice for the occasion?
Same with church.
Depends on whose wedding/funeral. I hope that when I dir folk'll wear whatever they like. My nice clothes are my favourite black jeans, my dragon t-shirts and some ghillie shirts. I do not like my formal stuff and do not consider it "nice".
--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
John Holding
Coffee and Cognac
# 158
|
Posted
Dress for funerals is an interesting one.
As I have said, my parish is militantly informal. Apart from me, the 94-year-old I mentioned earlier, a couple of Burundians and the odd visitor, no male wears a tie or jacket and jeans would be the norm (shorts in summer).
Recently a parishioner died and lots of people showed up to the funeral. Apart from the soloist (we don't do vestments for singers) who dressed as usual and was duly embarrassed, every single male member of the parish (over 18) who showed up wore a suit. This included students, university profs, IT people and others, none of whom I expected even owned a suit, much less would wear one.
John
Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
|
Posted
Yes, that's an interesting anomaly in my approach - I do dress up a bit for weddings and funerals (black dress and grey jacket - actually, normal workwear - for Ken's funeral yesterday).
But those are occasions. So I obviously don't regard going to church as an occasion, just what I do. And I always wear trousers of some sort for church if I'm ringing, as I don't like to ring in skirts (the bell rope catches a bit under the skirt and lifts it up, leading to potential or actual knicker flashing and much hilarity among other ringers. Yes, it happened last time I wore a shortish skirt to ring).
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I think wearing jeans to church is preferable to turning a church service into a fashion show, where people are trying to one-up each other with the latest designs.
I don't ever wear jeans to church, but when I see another parishioner who is wearing jeans or short trousers, I just think "I'm glad you're here!" as opposed to staying home and not worshipping! I dress up less than the choir (who wear all black) but well enough to meet standards for attire when I am lector - in addition to nice long trousers, I wear good shoes and a shirt with a proper collar.
--------------------
If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
RevMotherRaphael
Apprentice
# 18102
|
Posted
My mother still wears jeans at 69 and is very style conscious-more so than I can ever be unless habits suddenly come into fashion-and she will dress them up with nice shirt, jacket, shoes and bag for a Saturday lunch/shopping with friends without looking like 'mint sauce' but would never think to wear them for occasions like a polo/cricket match etc.
In my humble opinion I think jeans are fine for the older generation and if I may say so, tend to look better wearing them than the teenagers who for some reason can only find jeans that are too lose or too tight for their bodies... ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Posts: 42 | From: Why Heaven, of course, with all of you! | Registered: May 2014
| IP: Logged
|
|
Abigail
Shipmate
# 1672
|
Posted
I’ve found this thread interesting because I started wondering a few years ago if I’d reached an age when I should stop wearing jeans (I’m almost 60). I still wear them, though less than I used to. I often wear them for church but never for work.
And regarding church: my church is very informal and people wear whatever they like. I had a look round this morning and quite a few people were wearing jeans.
Including the vicar. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
--------------------
The older I get the less I know.
Posts: 505 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
Hand-embroidered jeans jacket sighting at this morning's 8.30 at Saint Barlaam's. More shockingly, one of the sidespersons (an adolescent male) wore a sports shop Tshirt.... Among the 18 there, 6 pair of walking shorts, presumably as we are going to get one of this month's rare sunny days.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Meerkat
Suricata suricatta
# 16117
|
Posted
What are 'walking shorts'?
Posts: 160 | From: Herts, UK | Registered: Jan 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
lily pad
Shipmate
# 11456
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Meerkat:
What are 'walking shorts'?
Walking shorts* are shorts that are a little bit above knee length. Generally, they fit nicely and look a little neater than any other shorts. So, not sport shorts or short shorts, and neither really loose and baggy nor overly tight. They often have front and back pockets like a pair of trousers would and are either a solid colour or a small plaid. Pretty much a more up-to-date version of Bermuda shorts.
*Hoping this was a serious question as I always assumed they were a British thing.
--------------------
Sloppiness is not caring. Fussiness is caring about the wrong things. With thanks to Adeodatus!
Posts: 2468 | From: Truly Canadian | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
