Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Keeping warm - energy bills suck
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
I want to continue the tangent which started from no prophet's post here in TITCH. Not that I'm particularly ranting but other people probably are. We live in a little apartment with a restaurant below (so we get some of their heat up to us), another apartment above (so we don't lose too much through the roof), two sides are external walls. Double glazed windows. Gas central heating (which is cheaper than electric I think), the gas is only for heating and hot water. Last summer our bill for 2 months was about 50 euro, our most recent one is nearly 190 euro for two months. OK so I like to be warm so the heating is on for about 5 hours a day at the moment, while in the summer it's on for about half an hour only for hot water. Maybe another factor in bills is how much tax is charged on utilities - here in Ireland it's 13.5%, I think it's 8% in the UK.
quote: Originally posted by orfeo: One reason it's so high is simply because Europeans like heating their indoors to the point where you can just wear a t-shirt and shorts.
Not true in my experience - most people I know wear jumpers indoors or have throws/blankets to huddle in. Housing stock in Europe tends to be closer together than in the US/Oz/Canada etc which helps keep warm as we can steal our neighbours heat!
Anyway, post your rants/comments about heating bills here
-------------------- formerly cheesymarzipan. Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
Got a modest raise this year.
Entire raise for the year has gone straight into my oil tank, plus some, and I'm not even warm. Three layers of clothes indoors most all the time.
There's very little wiggle room in my budget, I face a renewal of my hearing-aid warranties, need two new tires come spring, and face some expensive dental work -- expensive WITH insurance.
Every time I hear the heating system clank, I shudder.
-------------------- Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that. Moon: Including what? Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie. Moon: That's not true!
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Our house is almost 100 years old, and couldn't be less energy efficient if it tried. No insulation and 50% flat roof with stoating great skylight, front windows single glazed. Green timber in the doors (so none of them fit) and original fireplaces and flues. Draughty as hell.
The CH alternates between lowest and second lowest settings, depending on whether the outside temperature is above or below freezing. I have - and wear - jumpers, cardigans, wraps, ankle-length skirts, shawls, socks etc to the extent that on really cold days I am probably carrying more wool than a flock of sheep.
It's a mild winter when the combined gas+electric bills for October to March are less than £1,500.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
How is it possible that oil was 59.68p (+VAT) per litre in October and is 72.76p (+VAT) per litre in March???!!!?? It doesn't work that way round. No no no no no.
-------------------- The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I am so jealous of my brother who is energy self-sufficient (solar panels and wood burning, the wood from his own coppiced wood)
He spends each morning chopping wood and storing it in his various sheds.
What a pleasant way to live!
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Kitten
Shipmate
# 1179
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Posted
Please don't hate me, my heating for the winter cost £55 (A load of logs bought from a friend's parents) And My electricity comes in at around £27 per month
-------------------- Maius intra qua extra
Never accept a ride from a stranger, unless they are in a big blue box
Posts: 2330 | From: Carmarthenshire | Registered: Aug 2001
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kitten: Please don't hate me, my heating for the winter cost £55 (A load of logs bought from a friend's parents) And My electricity comes in at around £27 per month
Last year's bill was £3600.
-------------------- Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I just have to quote this from the TICTH thread, because I like it.
[tangent]
quote: Originally posted by comet: Bad hellions! Thwap thwap!
More thwapping will warm us all up! And the word "thwap" is great, it make me feel like the old campy TV show Batman, because when being yourself doesn't work, I say Be Batman because Batman is great. [/tangent]
I would dearly like to know what your fuel costs are and what sort of building. We pay 7.7¢ per cubic metre. The £ costs 1.85 $Cdn, so that's UK 4.16 pence per. USA is probably about 7¢ per. We have a high efficiency gas furnace (98% efficient) without a chimney, just a 2" pipe out the wall, which blows cool, as all the heat is recovered.
The walls in our house are called 6" thick, but in reality are close to 9" after interior wallboard and exterior cladding are factored in, 6" refers to the lumber used, which has to be minimum 2x6 for many years in place of 2x4. The windows are triple panes or as said in some places triple glazed. 3 sheets of glass. 2 is required by law, but almost all new construction has 3 now. We have about 18" of insulation in the ceiling.
No-one burns oil for heat here any more. Electric is rare too. Natural gas lines run everywhere, even to our cabin 19 km from the nearest town (there are 120 cabins in our area).
-------------------- Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety. \_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Boogie: He spends each morning chopping wood and storing it in his various sheds.
He probably doesn't even need to turn on the heater after that- as we used to say at the ski area, if you're cold, pick up a shovel; you won't be cold for long.
Our house has a few rooms that are obviously leaking heat, which has caused some outrageously high bills this winter. I think it might be time to get someone in to fill those walls with foam. Only after paying those outrageously high bills, I have no idea how we will afford that.
-------------------- "I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
np, thwapping warms you twice.
We have no access to natural gas. a few years ago, my mother decided to mothball the oil heater since oil was getting so ridiculously expensive. so she has wood heat with electric back up. Uses about 2 cords a year ($230/cord US) her electric is usually about $150/month in winter. not bad, right?
then I built my tent on the property, with plans to build a cabin this summer. It's a 4-season arctic tent, R7, 12'x12' on a platform (not insulated). I don't have a wood stove in it, just electric. my bill? $400 for January, $320 for December. Feb hasn't arrived yet.
*whimperwhimper*
that being said, though, when mom was on oil, her monthly winter bill for a very tight log cabin here was about $400/month. so getting rid of the oil was a great choice. Hopefully the new cabin will be a much better deal. it will be dry (meaning no plumbing to freeze) and have wood heat and if I get the one I WANT is 2"x12" super-insulated construction.
We've GOT to get these heating bills down.
-------------------- Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
My last year's bill for gas and electricity was £2,560. That's for a small semi-detached 2 bed cottage, with me only during the acadmic year, thermostat never more than 18 degrees (when there are visitors), otherwise 14 or so.
Main problem is it doesn't have cavity walls, is listed (don't ask - has no architectural merit and is not attractive) so can't have solid wall insulation either. Everything that can be is lagged/ swathed in something, etc.
Local council refused permission for solar panels - conservation area - or for proper double glazing.
My children used to be ashamed of my wearing fingerless mittens but I noticed they'd swiped some of mine this winter...
-------------------- Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
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Posted
You really want to know. A cubic metre of Gas is about 35-40p in the UK. I got my prices from here but those are Kwh and cubic meter gives about 11 Kwh
Jengie [ 03. March 2014, 18:13: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
-------------------- "To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
I dashed up stairs hoping to trump this pissing contest with my impressive Cali utility bill, and I found out- um-- we only paid $90 this month. Total.
Don't worry, in the summer, when water rationing kicks in, they will be charging us $50 a pop for each tear we weep over our horrifically large water bill.
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Since I had my panels put on the flat roof, in June 2012, I have spent on combined electricity and gas about £100 less than the company has paid me. Mind you, they don't pay much this time of year. Bill in mid January £179.18, FIT in mid December £63.14. Three storey mid-terrace town house with garage at ground level. Horrendously expensive new double glazing (put in during last bill period!) occupying about half of each outer wall. The walls are appalling. An outer layer of thin tiles, probably containing asbestos. An inner layer, about three inches away, of plasterboard. Held apart by wooden studs. Somewhere in there there is a steel frame, which means that the building rides gales like a - like a thing which moves with it and doesn't fall down. (During one recent storm, I had all the windows closed, so there was no air movement, and the rod which operates the venetian blind was swaying.) But there is no way to put insulation in the wall or on the outside. I'm not sure about what could be done inside, especially around the windows. I'm not sure how well a winter like last year would compare for usage - this one has been less cold, and the heating hasn't come on much. [ 03. March 2014, 19:16: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kelly Alves: Don't worry, in the summer, when water rationing kicks in, they will be charging us $50 a pop for each tear we weep over our horrifically large water bill.
To quote a conversation with a friend of mine who lives up the Sierra Nevada foothills:
"It's raining here." "Same with us, finally." "It's changing to snow now" "YOU FUCKER! I HATE YOU!"
August's going to be interesting for you, every other overpopulated city in California, and the farmers in the nation's fruit bowl when the sparse snowmelt is gone and there's not a drop of water to be found anywhere.
-------------------- “Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
Our water bill works out at £17.82 a month.
-------------------- The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
When the energy company adjusted our bill, they quoted us £240 a month for a predicted annual energy usage of £1,200. My maths isn't great, but ... Really?! Rip off merchants.
Tubbs
-------------------- "It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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mark_in_manchester
not waving, but...
# 15978
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Posted
100-yr-old semi-dweller here. Single-glazed sash windows, some with home-made secondary double glazing (which helps quite a lot).
When kids go to bed, central heating goes off. If you can heat just one room, do it. I use skip-find wood in a wood-burner, but when I'm in other rooms in the day then a 400W electric element in a parabolic reflector pointed at my head from 18" warms me up lovely. Heat you, if you can, and not the room. A hot-water bottle costs about .5p to fill with near-boiling water, and bungeed to your belly, will provide heat when moving around the place. Keep a flask next to the kettle, and whenever you boil a little too much water, tip it in.
G*d I'm a tight ar*se...
-------------------- "We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard (so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)
Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Mark, have you had any windthrown trees near you? Round here the borrowers with chainsaws make sure they aren't lying round very long and do good work in their stoves.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Just when I had hopes that the weather thread was going to die peacefully as the seasons turned, you all present me with the economic version of it.
I think this is God's way of punishing me for evading winter almost entirely last year by switching hemispheres.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Jengie Jon: You really want to know. A cubic metre of Gas is about 35-40p in the UK. I got my prices from here but those are Kwh and cubic meter gives about 11 Kwh
Jengie
Okay that's really Hell. You pay 10 times per unit what we pay for natural gas. 10 times. 10 times. (okay I won't do the other 8 times) If you guys had our climate you'd pay > £1000 per month in gas. Crazy.
-------------------- Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety. \_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Ariston: August's going to be interesting for you, every other overpopulated city in California, and the farmers in the nation's fruit bowl when the sparse snowmelt is gone and there's not a drop of water to be found anywhere.
The entire country will get to feel our pain if fruit and vegetable prices go up.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Rowen
Shipmate
# 1194
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Posted
An Australian here.... Hottest summer yet. I escaped the summer by going to the USA. No one lived here, but I thought folk were going to, so I left the power on. Cost for three months, no one here, but fridge on... $230. I am a bit stumped as to why. We have modern wiring, and no unnecessary leaky stuff. This is the church manse, and well-maintained. I was told, by the company, that this was mostly for long term regional maintenance and incidentals. I live in the remote country. Poles need to be looked after etc.
-------------------- "May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...
Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
My electric bill lists the cost of energy separately from other costs. It makes it easier to tell whether I am unintentionally squandering electricity.
Moo
-------------------- Kerygmania host --------------------- See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250
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Posted
Wood stove heat here. And I got free firewood this year.
Suckers.
Plans are to tighten up the insulation in the house this summer so that next year I don't go through 6+ cord of wood! Also, an EPA wood stove in the next couple of years is in the works.
Planning to trade the boiler, tank, baseboard radiators, etc to a metal collector in exchange for some help working on the house. We should have this 1850's dump up to spec in a decade or so!
Also, those of you in the UK, I'm very jealous because you have access to one of these.
-------------------- "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics." - Mark Twain
Posts: 1169 | From: Maine, US | Registered: Feb 2011
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by RuthW: quote: Originally posted by Ariston: August's going to be interesting for you, every other overpopulated city in California, and the farmers in the nation's fruit bowl when the sparse snowmelt is gone and there's not a drop of water to be found anywhere.
The entire country will get to feel our pain if fruit and vegetable prices go up.
Screw prices, that's the least of the worries. How about subsidence and settling in the aquifers thanks to the need to use so much groundwater? A sponge won't soak up water after you squeeze it out if you keep squeezing it—especially if you have a house sitting on top doing the squeezing.
In short, we're screwed.
-------------------- “Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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comet
Snowball in Hell
# 10353
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by irish_lord99: Also, those of you in the UK, I'm very jealous because you have access to one of these.
doesn't look that much different than the newer Blaze Kings.
personally, I'm hoping for a sexy little Vermont Castings for my cabin.
-------------------- Evil Dragon Lady, Breaker of Men's Constitutions
"It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.” -Calvin
Posts: 17024 | From: halfway between Seduction and Peril | Registered: Sep 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Ariston:
August's going to be interesting for you, every other overpopulated city in California, and the farmers in the nation's fruit bowl when the sparse snowmelt is gone and there's not a drop of water to be found anywhere.
Why, you fucking little ray of sunshine, you. Bless your pointy little penis.
And what Ruth said. Stock up on Vitamin C tablets now.
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
If you're going to start stocking up in anticipation of the consequences of the drought make sure you get some almonds while you can.
Posts: 2990 | From: Seattle WA. US | Registered: Nov 2011
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Fuck.FUCK!
I love almonds.
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Drought?
I was in San Diego for two days this week and the rain poured down in torrents for both of them!
-------------------- Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by no prophet: quote: Originally posted by Jengie Jon: You really want to know. A cubic metre of Gas is about 35-40p in the UK. I got my prices from here but those are Kwh and cubic meter gives about 11 Kwh
Jengie
Okay that's really Hell. You pay 10 times per unit what we pay for natural gas. 10 times. 10 times. (okay I won't do the other 8 times) If you guys had our climate you'd pay > £1000 per month in gas. Crazy.
Are you sure about your calculations, no prophet? They would make sense if they refer to kWh rather than cubic metres of gas.
I've just checked the wholesale price of gas (in Alberta - you have to start somewhere and it begins with an A) and it's currently about $7.6/GJ. That's around 2.7 cents per kWh. As Jengie Jon says a m3 of natural gas gives about 11kWh of energy. And those are wholesale prices i.e. what your supplier buys the gas for.
Woodburning stoves all look the same! But check the thermal efficiency. Different makes vary dramatically and that's what counts. That Burley T3 that Irish Lord is lusting after claims 89% which is very close to the efficiency of a condensing gas boiler.
There are now special plasters and plasterboard with high-insulation properties you can use if your house doesn't allow you to use the more traditional ways of insulating, as is the case in a lot of older properties. I gather they work well, especially the plasterboard.
-------------------- Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by no prophet: [tangent]
quote: Originally posted by comet: Bad hellions! Thwap thwap!
More thwapping will warm us all up! And the word "thwap" is great, it make me feel like the old campy TV show Batman, because when being yourself doesn't work, I say Be Batman because Batman is great. [/tangent]
This is why we all love Comet so much and want to cuddle her all the time.
Of course the more you do this the more cross she gets and the more likely to thwap you she is and... [rinse and repeat]
Although, given how much she's spending on heating at the mo, I suspect the idea of the whole quorum of Hellions turning up to cuddle her wouldn't be quite so unpleasant...
Bottom line though, for far too many people, the cost of heating is prohibitive.
AFZ
-------------------- Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts. [Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
*Tangent alert * posted by Honest Ron Bacardi quote: There are now special plasters and plasterboard with high-insulation properties you can use if your house doesn't allow you to use the more traditional ways of insulating, as is the case in a lot of older properties. I gather they work well, especially the plasterboard.
The best solid wall insulation is applied externally - not possible if the house is listed or in a conservation area.
Internal plasterboard with a high uValue is bulky: we explored the possibility and would have lost 130mm at least off each wall - may not sound a lot but when the room doesn't measure 10 foot square you end up with unusable space.
-------------------- Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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marzipan
Shipmate
# 9442
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Kelly Alves: I dashed up stairs hoping to trump this pissing contest with my impressive Cali utility bill, and I found out- um-- we only paid $90 this month. Total.
Don't worry, in the summer, when water rationing kicks in, they will be charging us $50 a pop for each tear we weep over our horrifically large water bill.
At the moment, there's no domestic water charges in ireland (only commercial premises have to pay). Presumably as it rains so much. They're planning to bring in water charges and meters at the end of this year, and you should hear the RAGE of some people at the prospect. Typical complaint: "well the water quality is terrible where I live and it's always getting cut off, and the drains are awful, so why should I have to pay for it?" Ignoring the logical response of "if you paid for it the quality would probably be better"
Anyway, back to heating bills as water is not seasonally dependent.
-------------------- formerly cheesymarzipan. Now containing 50% less cheese
Posts: 917 | From: nowhere in particular | Registered: May 2005
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by L'organist: *Tangent alert * posted by Honest Ron Bacardi quote: There are now special plasters and plasterboard with high-insulation properties you can use if your house doesn't allow you to use the more traditional ways of insulating, as is the case in a lot of older properties. I gather they work well, especially the plasterboard.
The best solid wall insulation is applied externally - not possible if the house is listed or in a conservation area.
Internal plasterboard with a high uValue is bulky: we explored the possibility and would have lost 130mm at least off each wall - may not sound a lot but when the room doesn't measure 10 foot square you end up with unusable space.
I take your point about small rooms. The insulating boards come in different thicknesses though, a bit like SoF posters. Even one at an extra 15mm can offer a reduction of seven eighth's of the thermal transmissivity of straight plasterboard, which is probably still worth doing in most cases.
Back to your scheduled rant.
-------------------- Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Boogie: Drought?
I was in San Diego for two days this week and the rain poured down in torrents for both of them!
Yep. Sounds like you were there for the whole California rainy season...
-------------------- Er, this is what I've been up to (book). Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Boogie: Drought?
I was in San Diego for two days this week and the rain poured down in torrents for both of them!
Not only did you get the only rainy days in San Diego, but you're at the far southern and costal end of a very big state, in a very narrow catchment basin. What's really needed is snow, especially up in the headwaters of the rivers that drain the Great Valley; rain doesn't stick around, but snowmelt provides a steady stream of water throughout the year. The other problem you don't see is the last two years of drought—water supplies are already critically low, farmers have already had bad years, etc.
So the problem is that close to 1 in 8 Americans live in the state, especially in cities like LA or San Diego with distinctly Mediterranean or desert climates (in other words, their water comes from elsewhere—and how did you think a city like San Diego, which averages less than a foot of rain a year, is kept so very lush and green, especially given the scrub you see the instant you leave it?), but the state's agriculture, which needs water as well, produces a very appreciable chunk of America's produce. So we have a very, very limited resource, everybody, even beyond the state, needs it; we'll be lucky if insanely high prices for things that rely on water is the worst we see.
-------------------- “Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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daronmedway
Shipmate
# 3012
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Posted
We live in a Diocesan owned Vicarage with very draughty windows which won't be replaced for, oh, the best part of this century I should think. When the stipend isn't that big to start with it's a bit annoying that a significant proportion goes on heating the bloody graveyard.
As it stands more than 10% of my net stipend goes on energy bills. Gas and Electricity combined cost us £183.00 per month, but most of that's paying off for energy used over the winter. I'm hoping to build up a credit balance over the summer to offset next winter's consumption.
However, for the last three months we've already limited our gas heating to just half and hour per day from 6.00 - 6.30 am just to take the chill off before we get up. From then on it's a wood fire until bed with hot water bottles a la the 1970s.
The wood we get is free from a relative who works in forestry. Our hot water boiler runs for half an hour a day too. I'm seriously considering using an outdoor wood fired oven in summer to save on electricity.
Posts: 6976 | From: Southampton | Registered: Jul 2002
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Ariston: So the problem is that close to 1 in 8 Americans live in the state, especially in cities like LA or San Diego with distinctly Mediterranean or desert climates (in other words, their water comes from elsewhere—and how did you think a city like San Diego, which averages less than a foot of rain a year, is kept so very lush and green, especially given the scrub you see the instant you leave it?)
Never quite understood how lawns are legal, or at least not heavily taxed, in such an arid region. Don't get me stated on waterscaped communities in Las Vegas and such.
-------------------- I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Let's face it, the key driver of one of Los Angeles' major industries was the general lack of rainy days to interrupt filming schedules.
-------------------- Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by lilBuddha: quote: Originally posted by Ariston: So the problem is that close to 1 in 8 Americans live in the state, especially in cities like LA or San Diego with distinctly Mediterranean or desert climates (in other words, their water comes from elsewhere—and how did you think a city like San Diego, which averages less than a foot of rain a year, is kept so very lush and green, especially given the scrub you see the instant you leave it?)
Never quite understood how lawns are legal, or at least not heavily taxed, in such an arid region. Don't get me stated on waterscaped communities in Las Vegas and such.
Around here the water department really penalizes you if your water usage exceeds a certain level. And if your lawn isn't brown during the summer, you get attitude from the neighbors. Dirty looks, visits from their dogs, mysterious burnt places...
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
daronmedway
Being a parsonage child I sympathise: we lived in a succession of sometimes beautiful but always leaky and draughty barns, including one the parish referred to as Wuthering Heights (and not in a good way).
DIY secondary glazing using heavy-duty polythene works very well - attach to the frames with duck-tape. You still need ventilation but I'm guessing the will be there anyway from ill fitting window frames. Heavy curtains over outside doors, using a portiere rod, can be very effective too. And you, not the Parsonages Board, can apply for help with loft insulation which should be at least 270mm thick.
-------------------- Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
In the 2000 - 2010 drought here, many inland towns here were often down to a few weeks supply of drinking water, and there was a recent news item that a town in western Queensland is in such a position now. OTOH, there are some inland cities which have a good supply of water diverted from flowing to the coast. The primary purpose of that water is to irrigate crops and especially the growing of fruit, but some seems always to find its way to lawns.
-------------------- Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Gee D: but some seems always to find its way to lawns.
That just straight up pisses me off.
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
Some places arrange for the use of "grey water" (treated sewage effluent) for that sort of thing. It's quite common in several Mediterranean countries. A lot of their golf courses are kept green that way.
-------------------- Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
...OK, that makes sense. Around here, though, you'd better put up a big fat sign explaining what you are doing.Seriously, people get testy.
-------------------- I cannot expect people to believe “ Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.” Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
When severe water restrictions were introduced in Sydney during the drought, that's what people did - put up signs saying that the sprinklers were using tank/bore/grey water. Perhaps doubt as to how some tanks came to be filled.
-------------------- Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote: Originally posted by Honest Ron Bacardi: Some places arrange for the use of "grey water" (treated sewage effluent) for that sort of thing. It's quite common in several Mediterranean countries. A lot of their golf courses are kept green that way.
A lot of our golf courses here in SoCal are kept green that way, as are parks. The city posts signs warning that the irrigation water isn't potable.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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