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Source: (consider it) Thread: You Knuckle-Dragging, Misogynistic, Neanderthal Tool
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Hold on, how about we discuss Spike's question; Is this worth being angry about?
I say it is. Not because of this napkin leaving australopithecus, but for the more subtle, yet pervasive sexism which still affects women.

Remove "more subtle, yet", and substitute "again rampant and":

quote:
...but for the again rampant and pervasive sexism which still affects women.
Inclusive language is mostly gone. (AFAICT, seems to have shifted around Dubya's presidency. Dunno if there's a connection.) I'm so sick of "Man, Mankind, Congressmen (for a mixed group)", etc. Depiction of women in the media. Pay is still lower than men's. Rape. Trafficking. Abuse. Assault. Murder.

[Mad]

And yes, I know much of this happens to men, too, and it's awful then, too.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Good idea. You win.

Naw, I'm not feeling it.

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Zen is but one form of Buddhism and if you want something to be detached, step a bit closer.

A Buddhist fighting a Christian? The sound of one hand clapping on the other cheek.

--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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When I read the thread title I though I'd been called to Hell again. Imagine my dissapointment when it wasn't about me.

Anyway, I think my favourite newspaper (the daily Mash) has found out who "David" really is.

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Oh, sweety, you are sooo precious!

quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
Or even more fun: let's discuss the little Buddha's problem with non-attachment. She's so very unzen.

Zen is but one form of Buddhism and if you want something to be detached, step a bit closer.
A violent Buddhist? *SHOCK HORROR*

Pax.

I'm merely pissed my muslim parents didn't follow the faith of their ancestors and I had to re-find it.

White people doing eastern religion just seems so tawdry.

But it's okay. As Sioni Sais says, I'm well balanced. I have a chip on both shoulders in this area.

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Could we just talk about penises driving planes? And not have yet another thread given over to Evensong?

I'd like to see Evensong and IngoB debate penises. Because they're both dicks.
That's sexist.

Bitch, if you please.

quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Zen is but one form of Buddhism and if you want something to be detached, step a bit closer.

A Buddhist fighting a Christian? The sound of one hand clapping on the other cheek.
[Big Grin]

--------------------
a theological scrapbook

Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged
Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405

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Circling,

c I r c l I n g ,


a
n
d

d

o

w

n

the
drain
we
go . . .

--------------------
Spiggott: Everything I've ever told you is a lie, including that.
Moon: Including what?
Spiggott: That everything I've ever told you is a lie.
Moon: That's not true!

Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010  |  IP: Logged
Kyzyl

Ship's dog
# 374

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Could we just talk about penises driving planes? ...

Gives a new meaning to "Snakes on a Plane".

"I've had it with these *&^&%%! penises on this *^%! plane!"

--------------------
I need a quote.

Posts: 668 | From: Wapasha's Prairie | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I'm wondering about the adaptations you'd need to make to the cockpit...

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Tortuf
Ship's fisherman
# 3784

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For instance, it would have to get larger when things got exciting.
Posts: 6963 | From: The Venice of the South | Registered: Dec 2002  |  IP: Logged
deano
princess
# 12063

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flaps anyone?

--------------------
"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006  |  IP: Logged
Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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Oh You People. Can't let a "good" dick joke slide can you? Just have to, uh, whip it to death.

And why has nobody commented on the drawings on the back of the napkin? Are those supposed to be her kids, and, if so, why is only one of them wearing any clothes? Does David secretly support letting your daughters run around naked?

Updates at 6.

--------------------
“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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If so, it would be typical misogynist behavior. Sighs and frowny faces to the idea of a woman pursuing the career she wants or expressing the ideas she has, but start talking about a woman's right to flash her boobs at Mardi Gras and he turns into Jerry Rubin.

"I fully support a woman expressing her FEMININE POWER (but understand that power is restricted solely to sexual manipulation, and then only if it turns me on personally, and doesn't lead to you doing things I personally think you shouldn't do.)"

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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I was on a plane yesterday. The pilot sounded male, but I never saw the bugger. For all I know it was a voice recording cunningly used to disguise the truth that the pilot was an alien hybrid with tentacles.

AND he had one of those funny sounding names. Although that could have just been the crackly intercom. They're always crackly.

Finally, TICTH the woman who asked the smoking hot bodybuilder in my row to swap seats so she could sit with her friend.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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See? It always winds up "cherchez la femme."

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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So, if flying is related to sex, you want a male pilot for a short jerky flight with a long layover and a female pilot for a long, steady flight or for a multiple flights in one trip.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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But not one who screams through the entire landing.

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Gotta love a Christian website. [Biased] [Snigger]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Hey! I'm away from my old job--I can get one of those ITIWACWS mugs now! (well, not now--after I get a new job, please God, next week) [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

I can finally come out of the closet about the Ship. [Devil]

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
flaps anyone?

Get your plane facts right. Pilots of either gender deploy them to slow things down and do a steep descent. So not what would be required in the circumstances alluded to.

Why do women learn to fly (I know, did)? Well, they might find the company of planes relaxing compared to that of men... Airplanes are straightforward (hah!), solid, and utterly trustworthy. They don't have moods, they don't pout if you leave them on the tarmac for a couple of days, they have a regular and predictable fuel intake which you can moderate with a couple of tricks, and they will take you anywhere without complaint.

They do exactly as you tell them. In a plane-girl relationship, it is always the girl who files the flight plan.
They are always there for you (no plane is known to spend hours in front of a computer screen burrowed in SoF posts when there's a life to be shared with a family outside). If you take good care of them, they'll last for decades and descades -unfailingly.

If something is wrong with them, they will let you know in an unemotional, easy to understand way. Once that is fixed, they bear no grudge. That is because they are all so well-built. No airplane is allowed out into the world unless it has passed stringent quality tests!!

Airplanes aren't selfish, and they honestly don't care what your hair or your clothes look like. And yet they are wonderfully complex and sensitive, and flying them is like having a dialogue with them.

Coming to think of it... all a girl really needs is a plane, a dog, and a good library...

[Big Grin]

--------------------
"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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[Overused]

I want to print that out and read it by candlelight in a bubble bath with a good hand nozzle.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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DD--

What, no chocolate???

[Frown]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
DD--

What, no chocolate???

[Frown]

...oh yes, Chocolate, of course! Dark chocolate, preferably. But just not during lent... a girl must know her limits...

--------------------
"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)

Posts: 733 | Registered: Apr 2008  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's worth being angry that our society is such that somebody can have his attitudes and not be ashamed. And not just one somebody. Look at all the mouth-breathers coming to his defense (not on this thread but out there). Without shame. That's worth being angry about.

While true, and very nasty, this incident is only being discussed because it was written down. I'm thinking of what I've heard this week that was not written down, including "fucking Indian", "squaw", "rubbie", and "shark bait", here all applied to North American Indians. If such a discussion of egregious sexism can actually lead somewhere, we might justify ongoing commentary in a thread like this one. I do think the original napkin comment is an act of violence, and that violence is the original evil.

--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
But not one who screams through the entire landing.

This made me laugh out loud at a moment I really needed it. My faith in Hell has been restored.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Glad I could help! [Big Grin] (Oh wait, is that hellish enough? [Two face] )

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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I've been reading up on this and found that women have been learning to fly and obtaining licenses for well over 100 years (c 1908) and flying as aircrew since about 1930. In the 1939-45 war most British built aircraft were delivered by members of the Air Transport Auxiliary, which had about 150 women pilots who received the same pay as their male counterparts!

The Royal Air Force has had women pilots since 1990 and now has some flying fast jets (Tornados and Typoons) on combat missions. I'm only surprised that there aren't more women aircrew.

It must be Hell up there.

[ 08. March 2014, 15:16: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

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A (female) friend of mine flew jets for the RAF; she talks fondly of screeching just over people sunbathing nude, but I guess you don't get to see their reactions.

--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Eigon
Shipmate
# 4917

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Round here they mainly fly with a wingman, who is always a little bit behind the first plane.

--------------------
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

Posts: 3710 | From: Hay-on-Wye, town of books | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I've been reading up on this and found that women have been learning to fly and obtaining licenses for well over 100 years (c 1908) and flying as aircrew since about 1930. In the 1939-45 war most British built aircraft were delivered by members of the Air Transport Auxiliary, which had about 150 women pilots who received the same pay as their male counterparts!
...

And over on the eastern front at that time Soviet women were flying combat missions (though the ones given that name weren't flying combat planes!) and rather feared.

(learned when reading for a Sof previous women&(male assoc activity) thread)

Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006  |  IP: Logged
Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635

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Since we're talkig flying here, let's pause a moment with a thought and a prayer for the people who were on board MH 370
[Votive]

it seems there might have been foul play ivolved.

--------------------
"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)

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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
Since we're talkig flying here, let's pause a moment with a thought and a prayer for the people who were on board MH 370
[Votive]

it seems there might have been foul play ivolved.

Yes, thanks for pointing out my disconnect.
It definitely doesn't look good, I hope it turns out ok, but I can't see how. [Votive]

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Dark Knight

Super Zero
# 9415

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
It's worth being angry that our society is such that somebody can have his attitudes and not be ashamed. And not just one somebody. Look at all the mouth-breathers coming to his defense (not on this thread but out there). Without shame. That's worth being angry about.

While true, and very nasty, this incident is only being discussed because it was written down. I'm thinking of what I've heard this week that was not written down, including "fucking Indian", "squaw", "rubbie", and "shark bait", here all applied to North American Indians. If such a discussion of egregious sexism can actually lead somewhere, we might justify ongoing commentary in a thread like this one. I do think the original napkin comment is an act of violence, and that violence is the original evil.
It was nasty, and I'm still not sure whether or not it was a joke (probably because I am not sure anyone could be this backward at the same time as they are willing to put that backwardness on display). But it isn't violence. Unless you want to expand the semantic range of that word to the point where it is meaningless.

--------------------
So don't ever call me lucky
You don't know what I done, what it was, who I lost, or what it cost me
- A B Original: I C U

----
Love is as strong as death (Song of Solomon 8:6).

Posts: 2958 | From: Beyond the Yellow Brick Road | Registered: Apr 2005  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I've been reading up on this and found that women have been learning to fly and obtaining licenses for well over 100 years (c 1908) and flying as aircrew since about 1930. In the 1939-45 war most British built aircraft were delivered by members of the Air Transport Auxiliary, which had about 150 women pilots who received the same pay as their male counterparts!

'Round here, we had the
WASPS.

Yeah, Dave, the genie's been out of the bottle on that one for a long time. And may we ladies collectively say "You're welcome" to you, in their stead, for their service during our darkest hour?

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Desert Daughter
Shipmate
# 13635

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
['Round here, we had the
WASPS.

I had a WASP as a flight instructor for a while when I did some refresher training in the US back in the late '80s. She was a great teacher, and full of stories. I never met anyone who understood airplanes (and the people who drive them) so well. It was an honour to fly with her.
[Overused]

The problem with that idiot and his note is well known: Piloting is (wrongly!) constructed as a manly activity. As if flying a plane required great physical force, and the superior intellect only males can muster [Roll Eyes]

The truth is, it does not. Neither one nor the other. Actually, something flying does require are very highly developed multitasking skills, something females are supposed to be better at (and I know these are generalisations).

But because the whole thing has been constructed as "macho", insecure men still get irritated at the sight of a female pilot.

I guess the best way to deal with it is shrug it off. These types will always be around. Just close the cockpit door behind you... and ring the steward for a coffee once you've reached cruising altitude.

--------------------
"Prayer is the rejection of concepts." (Evagrius Ponticus)

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Over the years I have grown to believe that "multitasking" simply means "doing the work of 4 people so I only have to pay 1." In other words-good point about flying being a genuinely multi tasking job.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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Can't. Stop. Pedant. Escaping. Save yourselves!
There is no such thing as multitasking in the sense it is used. It is processing tasks segmented and sequentially.
But women do that better than men.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Can't. Stop. Pedant. Escaping. Save yourselves! There is no such thing as multitasking in the sense it is used. It is processing tasks segmented and sequentially.

If you can walk through the park while chatting to a friend, then you can multitask in the full sense of the word. It takes a rather refined view of "task", focusing on conscious executive control, to claim that the parallel computing of the brain is "single task".

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But women do that better than men.

Evidence?

--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004  |  IP: Logged
EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091

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quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter
Actually, something flying does require are very highly developed multitasking skills, something females are supposed to be better at (and I know these are generalisations).

Interestingly, in my job I have not seen any evidence that this is true.

I (a male) can physically care for a patient while talking to him or her, whereas I have noticed that some (though not all) of my female colleagues do one or the other - or engaging in conversation with the patient tends to slow down the physical work. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this, and perhaps it's to do with the women wanting to make sure they have the patient's attention, or they're concerned with eye contact. That may be a very good thing. But it's not multi-tasking.

From my experience I think this multi-tasking claim is an urban myth.

Here's an interesting article about this subject (I don't agree with everything in it, and I certainly don't knock feminism per se, but it's worth a read).

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:

Here's an interesting article about this subject (I don't agree with everything in it, and I certainly don't knock feminism per se, but it's worth a read).

That's not an article, it's a blog post by someone with an axe to grind. You might as well post what a man in a pub told you.

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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So no opinion about the content of the article / blog post / back of fag packet or whatever...?

This seems to be the way of the Ship: "If I don't like what someone says, then I play the ad hominem".

So tedious. So childish.

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
So no opinion about the content of the article / blog post / back of fag packet or whatever...?

This seems to be the way of the Ship: "If I don't like what someone says, then I play the ad hominem".

So tedious. So childish.

You may have missed the point but ... this is Hell, the natural home of the ad hominem. I was trying to save pixels and see what thanks I get [Roll Eyes]

Anyhow, the purported article was chock-full of more urban myths and hearsay, so it can hardly be used to prove or disprove anything.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

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EtymologicalEvangelical
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Ok.

Ignore the pathetic blog post then.

Others may want to read it. You never know...

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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Can't. Stop. Pedant. Escaping. Save yourselves! There is no such thing as multitasking in the sense it is used. It is processing tasks segmented and sequentially.

If you can walk through the park while chatting to a friend, then you can multitask in the full sense of the word. It takes a rather refined view of "task", focusing on conscious executive control, to claim that the parallel computing of the brain is "single task".

Multitasking as it is generally used does not refer to walking and talking, but doing multiple tasks overlapping. Such as writing multiple reports instead of finishing one then beginning another. Working on a report, preparing for a meeting, checking on the children, scheduling health appointments etc. over the course of day.
Mulitasking
However, whilst we do things like walking and talking simultaneously, the more concentration one takes, the less concentration is available for the other. This is why one is more likely to trip whilst talking than when merely walking. This is why talking on one's mobile makes for poorer driving.
In other words, the brain can parallel process some things, however with finite resources. So efficiency at one is sacrificed by reduced efficiency at the other.
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But women do that better than men.

Evidence?
Hah. It was more a throw away dig than a real statement.
It would be more properly put that women suck at it less.

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Taliesin
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quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter
Actually, something flying does require are very highly developed multitasking skills, something females are supposed to be better at (and I know these are generalisations).

Interestingly, in my job I have not seen any evidence that this is true.

I (a male) can physically care for a patient while talking to him or her, whereas I have noticed that some (though not all) of my female colleagues do one or the other - or engaging in conversation with the patient tends to slow down the physical work. I am not saying there is anything wrong with this, and perhaps it's to do with the women wanting to make sure they have the patient's attention, or they're concerned with eye contact. That may be a very good thing. But it's not multi-tasking.

From my experience I think this multi-tasking claim is an urban myth.

Here's an interesting article about this subject (I don't agree with everything in it, and I certainly don't knock feminism per se, but it's worth a read).

While I broadly agree that most articles these days are no more authoritative than a blog or a bloke at the pub, this particular piece of poisonous crap falls into the, 'hectoring lunatic in the park' category. The point about multitasking is nothing to do with a job being multifaceted, as such, and everything to do with not being able to finish a task before a new one arises. And the issue with 'men only have one job' arose because many women worked at one paid job outside the home, then another, unpaid one inside it. For the people who genuinely divided the labour, like his parents, or my husband's grandparents, fair enough. But my parents, for example, both had jobs earning money (my mother earned less, of course) then she was responsible for all cooking, cleaning, shopping, washing, childcare, communication with relatives, mending of clothes, organizing of festivals like Christmas, gardening, attending parents evening and other social activities... while my dad fixed the car from time to time, cut the grass (lawn 4 foot square) and was seen at church a lot.
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IngoB

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Multitasking as it is generally used does not refer to walking and talking, but doing multiple tasks overlapping.

You can understand my comment as pointing out that it is a specific kind of unscientific bias to not count walking and talking as two tasks carried out simultaneously.

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
In other words, the brain can parallel process some things, however with finite resources. So efficiency at one is sacrificed by reduced efficiency at the other.

I suspect that the truth is rather more interesting than that. For example, if instead of talking you simply are listening to the environment, and hear a "crack" as you trip, then you might use that auditory input to determine a more effective reaction - namely by taking a hop instead of stomping down, since you correctly guessed that the wooden plank beneath your feet has snapped. A parallel channel can aid or distract, depending on whether the information carried can be integrated or must be blocked.

quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
It would be more properly put that women suck at it less.

They looked only at "a certain type of multitasking; the kind we use when faced with juggling many tasks in rapid succession - but not quite simultaneously." And then they mixed that up with stress responses. And then they used complex tasks, which is always an invitation for bias. For example, look at the pictures of male vs. female search patterns, which gets paraded as "just bizarre" in the male case. Actually, in being faced with a task designed to be impossible to complete in time, I like the male search pattern they show better. It's a "greedy" strategy trying to cover much likely drop space quickly, rather than all of it systematically but slowly. Anyway, it is of course possible that women are in fact better at this or even all multitasking. Just take such experiments with a grain of salt...

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Kelly Alves

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I actually agree witn you, Bingo, ol' bean. I think the labeling of women as innate multitaskers has created "traditionally female" jobs that require you to break your ass covering four different job functions while accepting much lower pay.

( i just re-read "The Help", and am pissed. At one point we decided black people were designed for hard labor, too.)

And I see that " flimsy blog post teference" and raise you one "some FB article I read and can't be bothered to find"... I came across a study once that seemed to indicate that, in general, human beings are bad multitaskers, and forcing them into that role is what creates the necessity for women to gulp Valium and men to pop their clogs at 60 years old, to find a minute's peace. Maybe it's because I identify as a shitty multitasker, but I tend to agree. Anyone- even I --can learn to multitask if their paycheck depends on it.

[ 12. March 2014, 00:59: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Multitasking as it is generally used does not refer to walking and talking, but doing multiple tasks overlapping.

You can understand my comment as pointing out that it is a specific kind of unscientific bias to not count walking and talking as two tasks carried out simultaneously.
Yes, I understand this. And I hope that you understand that most people speaking of multitasking are not speaking in a scientific sense at all.
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:

I suspect that the truth is rather more interesting than that. For example, if instead of talking you simply are listening to the environment, and hear a "crack" as you trip, then you might use that auditory input to determine a more effective reaction - namely by taking a hop instead of stomping down, since you correctly guessed that the wooden plank beneath your feet has snapped. A parallel channel can aid or distract, depending on whether the information carried can be integrated or must be blocked.

Leaving aside your bad example,* I understand that the brain is taking in multiple streams of information and that it is processing some tasks simultaneously. However, there is a limited amount your brain can take in. It is very efficient at discarding things which do not seem important at the moment they happen. Sometimes it keeps the right things and you avoid falling down into the ravine, sometimes it is wrong and you walk into traffic.

Most people are much poorer at processing their environment then they think.

*A hop and a stomp down are the same thing, downward force is needed to create the hop. But I understand what you mean to illustrate.

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IngoB

Sentire cum Ecclesia
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Leaving aside your bad example,* I understand that the brain is taking in multiple streams of information and that it is processing some tasks simultaneously. However, there is a limited amount your brain can take in. ... *A hop and a stomp down are the same thing, downward force is needed to create the hop. But I understand what you mean to illustrate.

You did not bother comprehending what I was saying about the difference between blocking and integrating information. Fine, I did not really expect you to understand that. However, a hop and a stomp down are different in where you end up at the end of the motion. If all foot support is gone instantly, then you are simply falling and it does not matter at all what your legs are doing. Often this is not the case though, and if something is giving way under you, then I would recommend to attempt a hop rather than to stomp down. Perhaps you can comprehend that, it is not exactly rocket science... or neuroscience, for that matter.

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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear

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Kelly Alves

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EVERYTHING is neuroscience. Hell, this post is neuroscience.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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orfeo

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Wind gusts aren't neuroscience.

Or carrots.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
You did not bother comprehending what I was saying about the difference between blocking and integrating information. Fine, I did not really expect you to understand that.

I do understand the difference between blocking and integration. What I said is that the brain does not always choose appropriately.

ETA; You are ever sooo cute when you are condescending.

[ 13. March 2014, 04:56: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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