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In connection with the World Vision debacle, we now have THIS INTERVIEW with Franklin Graham, in which the prominent evangelical leader slanders gay couples who adopt children as "recruiting" and tries to identify his stand against human rights with the ministry of Martin Luther King Jr.

Randall Balmer (former fundamentalist, now Episcopal priest) had this to say:

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For Franklin Graham to compare the Civil Rights movement to his opposition to gay and lesbian rights is not only laughable, it is, frankly, odious.

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
In connection with the World Vision debacle, we now have THIS INTERVIEW with Franklin Graham, in which the prominent evangelical leader slanders gay couples who adopt children as "recruiting" and tries to identify his stand against human rights with the ministry of Martin Luther King Jr.

Randall Balmer (former fundamentalist, now Episcopal priest) had this to say:

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For Franklin Graham to compare the Civil Rights movement to his opposition to gay and lesbian rights is not only laughable, it is, frankly, odious.

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It's not just the comparison that is "frankly odious," it is Graham himself.

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Maybe the comparison is apt, they just read the program wrong. Franklin Graham is not playing the role of Billy Graham tearing down the segregation rope at 1953 rallies, he's playing the role of Bull Connor.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Maybe the comparison is apt, they just read the program wrong. Franklin Graham is not playing the role of Billy Graham tearing down the segregation rope at 1953 rallies, he's playing the role of Bull Connor.

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Well, Billy Graham wasn't always the Billy Graham tearing down the segregation rope at 1953 rallies" either.

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Perhaps this gentleman is positioning himself to take over the mantle of Phelps.

Or perhaps he is a spoiled rich boy with much more mouth than sense.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

I am sure that I will be able to raise huge sums of money for this. What is more, there are many parts of the US in particular where this is already the state religion. Not to mention the impact it will have in Africa.

As of now, please refer to me as the Grand ArchVisier of GayHaters.

Not that I agree, of course, it is just a way to make a lot of money and stop these people bismirching the name of Christianity.

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I was amused when Billy Graham, at the urging of Franklin Graham, publicly ate a Chik-Fil-A sandwich in support of the homophobic efforts of the chain's conservative Christian owners. He ended up in the Hospital the next day for undisclosed reasons

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It couldn't have been the Chick-Fil-A sandwich!

Not eating Chik-Fil-A has been one of the hardest restrictions I have ever undertaken! I have to walk past a branch at least two times every work-day! When I catch the scent of breaded chicken in peanut oil, I mutter, "Get thee behind me, Satan!"

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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I was amused when Billy Graham . . . publicly ate a Chik-Fil-A sandwich in support of the homophobic efforts of the chain's conservative Christian owners. He ended up in the Hospital the next day for undisclosed reasons

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It couldn't have been the Chick-Fil-A sandwich!

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Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
This is all very sad to me. A lovely young girl in our little church has been organizing a big Operation Christmas Child campaign every Xmas for three years (since she was nine). And last Christmas she was so proud to meet Graham when he came to L.A. for the shoe box send-off in SoCal. She has turned twelve and will eventually run up against this crap online. I mourn the fact that so many folks like her just want to be loving stewards of their prosperity, but people like Franky muddy it with this hateful bilge he spews. He is definitely "odious" but I will continue to support my young friend's efforts to reach out to other children in kindness despite him.

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Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I am going to start a new religion - GayHaters.

Our religious writings will be drawn from all the major works of the world, wherever there is a some writing that could be interpreted to condemn homosexuality.

Our symbol will be a stylised bottom.

Our creed with be simple: "homosexuality is abhorrant"

It promises that you will get to heaven irrespective of what else you do based on how much you hate homosexuals, and how much you do to make this clear.


I am sure that I will be able to raise huge sums of money for this. What is more, there are many parts of the US in particular where this is already the state religion. Not to mention the impact it will have in Africa.

As of now, please refer to me as the Grand ArchVisier of GayHaters.

Not that I agree, of course, it is just a way to make a lot of money and stop these people bismirching the name of Christianity.

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Originally posted by Mockingale:
What, you don't think all those people who rarely attend church but pound their Bibles given the chance to get preachy about how evil teh gays actually buy into any of the difficult bits of Christianity, do you? (Love thy neighbor? Feh! Stupid liberal nonsense).

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:

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Originally posted by Palimpsest:
I was amused when Billy Graham, at the urging of Franklin Graham, publicly ate a Chik-Fil-A sandwich in support of the homophobic efforts of the chain's conservative Christian owners. He ended up in the Hospital the next day for undisclosed reasons

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It couldn't have been the Chick-Fil-A sandwich!

Not eating Chik-Fil-A has been one of the hardest restrictions I have ever undertaken! I have to walk past a branch at least two times every work-day! When I catch the scent of breaded chicken in peanut oil, I mutter, "Get thee behind me, Satan!"

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The owner of Chik-A-Fil has said publicly he wishes he'd never got involved in the debate, has done a lot of talking with less conservative elements and might be donating differently in future. They also apparently offer better pay and benefits than many other food chains. Some conservatives howled with rage and threatened their own boycott. (Funny how when we boycott, it's outrageous but when they boycott that's okay)

In the current climate, admitting to having reconsidered is brave. You might want to cut them a bit of slack. Hobby Lobby though

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
This is all very sad to me. A lovely young girl in our little church has been organizing a big Operation Christmas Child campaign every Xmas for three years (since she was nine). And last Christmas she was so proud to meet Graham when he came to L.A. for the shoe box send-off in SoCal. She has turned twelve and will eventually run up against this crap online. I mourn the fact that so many folks like her just want to be loving stewards of their prosperity, but people like Franky muddy it with this hateful bilge he spews. He is definitely "odious" but I will continue to support my young friend's efforts to reach out to other children in kindness despite him.

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

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Originally posted by Mockingale:
What, you don't think all those people who rarely attend church but pound their Bibles given the chance to get preachy about how evil teh gays actually buy into any of the difficult bits of Christianity, do you? (Love thy neighbor? Feh! Stupid liberal nonsense).

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Rarely attend church? I give odds many of the very vocal ones do attend regularly. I think comprehension is the rare commodity, not attendance.

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
In the current climate, admitting to having reconsidered is brave. You might want to cut them a bit of slack.

Tubbs

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Hum? Maybe I could eat there again? Hum?

"Get thee behind me, Satan!"

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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
In the current climate, admitting to having reconsidered is brave. You might want to cut them a bit of slack.

Tubbs

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Hum? Maybe I could eat there again? Hum?

"Get thee behind me, Satan!"

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Chick-fil-A is one of the most successful in the industry, with sales in 2012 of $4.6 billion. To maintain growth, it wants to move beyond its Bible Belt base into Northeast and Midwest cities such as New York, Boston, and Chicago

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
I watched a bit of that interview - and it's hate speech pure and simple. It's a real shame that Graham - who'd be a low rent preacher in a nothing mega church but for an accident of birth - is abusing his father's legacy in this way. (I became a Christian at Mission 89!).

OTH, if I was in the same position as you, I'd want to support my young friend too and would consider a shoe box as the lesser evil. (That's not meant to be patronising, but I have a bad feeling it is so my apologies!)

Tubbs

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But does it matter why they changed policy?
If they change purely for profit, and people still boycott because they do not feel the change "real" is this not a message that the change was wrong or irrelevant?

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I've got to agree! I want to see behavior changed, even if beliefs/ideas haven't changed. Behavior actually affects people; beliefs/ideas, in themselves, have no effect -- unless people act on them. And it looks like the CEO of Chick-fil-A has decided to serve Mammon rather than God (as he understand him).

The boycott was directed at the behavior, not the beliefs. If it really has changed, then it achieved its purpose, and ought to end.

Honestly, there's a lot to like about how Chick-fil-A is run, how it treats its employees (relative to other fast-food chains), and how those employees are taught to behave: Chick-fil-A's largely teenage workforce actually learns how to give customers a positive service experience! This kind of training in giving quality customer service will benefit them the rest of their lives.

I think, tomorrow, Satan and I will share a meal at Chick-fil-A! [We can't today, because Chick-fil-A is always closed on the Lord's Day!]

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שפך חמתך אל־הגוים אשר לא־ידעוך
Psalm 79:6

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:
But does it matter why they changed policy?
If they change purely for profit, and people still boycott because they do not feel the change "real" is this not a message that the change was wrong or irrelevant?

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
I watched a bit of that interview - and it's hate speech pure and simple. It's a real shame that Graham - who'd be a low rent preacher in a nothing mega church but for an accident of birth - is abusing his father's legacy in this way. (I became a Christian at Mission 89!).

OTH, if I was in the same position as you, I'd want to support my young friend too and would consider a shoe box as the lesser evil. (That's not meant to be patronising, but I have a bad feeling it is so my apologies!)

Tubbs

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My sentiments exactly.

I'm similarly conflicted about the shoeboxes-- which I've done at the church where I serve. It's useful pedagogy more than charity-- it's a helpful, tangible way to teach children about empathy, compassion and giving, with enough time for them to find more effective/efficient ways to care as they get older. I'm not aware of any other "shoebox" ministries here in the US doing anything similar.

Yet I hate giving this guy a cent. I hate having any of my $$ go to his salary. I wonder what I'll hear from the families in our church this year.

In the end I'll probably continue for the same reason that progressive Christians who signed up for a WV sponsorship on Tues. or early Wed. are standing by those pledges-- because the shoeboxes give some joy to a child, and that's a good thing. And because they teach our kids about giving joy, and that's a good thing. I never gave Samaritans Purse any donations other than the shoebox postage before (because of what I already knew about Franklin) and this obviously only confirms that.

But it's a fraught decision for me. I've got 6 months to pray about it.

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I feel your pain. I shared details of alternative charities that send shoeboxes to the PTB at church along with a rant about why we should reconsider our support of OCC. I have less issues with the work than with the delivery mechanism. It's going to be raised, but I'm not sure what I'll do if the meeting decides to continue. My inner good Baptist says that I should accept the will of the meeting ... But I'm not good at doing what I should.

Tubbs

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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
I feel your pain. I shared details of alternative charities that send shoeboxes to the PTB at church along with a rant about why we should reconsider our support of OCC. I have less issues with the work than with the delivery mechanism. It's going to be raised, but I'm not sure what I'll do if the meeting decides to continue. My inner good Baptist says that I should accept the will of the meeting ... But I'm not good at doing what I should.

Tubbs

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Perhaps this gentleman is positioning himself to take over the mantle of Phelps.

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Originally posted by piglet:

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Originally posted by PeteC:
Perhaps this gentleman is positioning himself to take over the mantle of Phelps.

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That was my first thought too - perhaps he saw a gap in the market and decided to fill it.

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Originally posted by Mamacita:
It's a pity that Franklin has inherited the mantle from his father (not that his father was without fault, but still...). I recall an article in Time magazine, around the time of Franklin's ascendency and Billy's retirement, which described how many people close to them felt that Graham daughter Ruth was the one with the real spiritual gifts and that Franklin had long been a real jerkoff. Yet, her leadership would never have been accepted in that denomination, so it was not pursued, nor did she attempt to press it.

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Originally posted by Dubious Thomas:
In connection with the World Vision debacle, we now have THIS INTERVIEW with Franklin Graham, in which the prominent evangelical leader slanders gay couples who adopt children as "recruiting" and tries to identify his stand against human rights with the ministry of Martin Luther King Jr.

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Funny how nobody says that straight couples adopting children are 'recruiting for their cause' but gay couples need to have an ulterior motive

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formerly cheesymarzipan.
Now containing 50% less cheese

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Originally posted by L'organist:
I'm just amazed that preaching and pastoring are seen to be some kind of hereditary gift...

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:

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Originally posted by Tubbs:
I feel your pain. I shared details of alternative charities that send shoeboxes to the PTB at church along with a rant about why we should reconsider our support of OCC. I have less issues with the work than with the delivery mechanism. It's going to be raised, but I'm not sure what I'll do if the meeting decides to continue. My inner good Baptist says that I should accept the will of the meeting ... But I'm not good at doing what I should.

Tubbs

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Do you know of any shoebox programs available in the US? I'm afraid if I used a UK based charity the postage to get the boxes (our church averages about 100 boxes/year) to the UK just to get them shipped off somewhere else would eat up too much of the benefit.

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Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Do you know of any shoebox programs available in the US? I'm afraid if I used a UK based charity the postage to get the boxes (our church averages about 100 boxes/year) to the UK just to get them shipped off somewhere else would eat up too much of the benefit.

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