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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Thank you Desert Daughter
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Justinian
Shipmate
# 5357
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
I don't watch it anyway, but that's how it seems to me.
![[Confused]](confused.gif)
One can learn enough of what is going on there through the media, or even boards such as this one, without having to watch it. Yes, it's a big freak show but as I said, the entertainment industry is notoriously funny, so to speak.
What one does not learn is that I can't remember the last time that the winners of Eurovision weren't great performers, able to carry a live show, and that although there are onstage visual shenanigans (Conchita was both low key and classy by e.g. the standards of Lordi or even Abba) the winner can generally sing well as well as put on a great performance.
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My real name consists of just four letters, but in billions of combinations.
Eudaimonaic Laughter - my blog.
Posts: 3926 | From: The Sea Coast of Bohemia | Registered: Dec 2003
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
This whole thread has made me chuckle. Dress codes are man-made. Who says what clothes people should wear if they're male or female?
What's interesting is the way people have come down on DD for being offended by it, as if offence is not allowed in some instances while in others it's compulsory, whether meant or not, as here.
I couldn't give a flying fuck if DD is offended - I'm more focused on her being an offensive bigot, to the extent I give a shit.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Evangeline
Shipmate
# 7002
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I'm surprised that anyone finds a drag act outlandish. At least in British culture, they are well established, for example, in pantomime. TV comedy has also used drag for a long time - think Dick Emery, Dame Edna (Australian), Monty Python, Kenny Everett, Matt Lucas, and I've no doubt forgotten some. What's the big deal?
Oh and some "black face" singers do sing well and are well established in certain cultures too. Doesn't make it right. Just sayin'.
Posts: 2871 | From: "A capsule of modernity afloat in a wild sea" | Registered: May 2004
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
This whole thread has made me chuckle. Dress codes are man-made. Who says what clothes people should wear if they're male or female?
What's interesting is the way people have come down on DD for being offended by it, as if offence is not allowed in some instances while in others it's compulsory, whether meant or not, as here.
Hello, and welcome to Hell. Let me be your guide for all of 30 seconds. You appear to be seeking something called 'consistency'. You've come to the wrong place.
orfeo
Hellhost/tour guide
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evangeline:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I'm surprised that anyone finds a drag act outlandish. At least in British culture, they are well established, for example, in pantomime. TV comedy has also used drag for a long time - think Dick Emery, Dame Edna (Australian), Monty Python, Kenny Everett, Matt Lucas, and I've no doubt forgotten some. What's the big deal?
Oh and some "black face" singers do sing well and are well established in certain cultures too. Doesn't make it right. Just sayin'.
Well, yes, there have been critics of drag who have argued that it demeans women, or reveals misogyny. Presumably, you agree with this, since you are comparing it with blacking up?
I think drag could be expressed in a misogynistic way, but I don't think that drag is intrinsically anti-women. It seems to me there has always been a fascination in various cultures with the transgression of sex and gender boundaries; in addition, some gender theorists argue that it shows the artificiality of gender itself.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
So I'm guessing DD probably isn't a big fan of Ru Paul's Drag Race, then...
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I just remembered talking to cross-dressers who said that they did it, because they admired and envied women, not because they felt contempt for them. But no doubt, you could find drag queens who are contemptuous of women. There is also the complicated issues of subversion and satire of gender, plus just the sheer camp 'jouissance' of it - I remember when I used to go to drag clubs and pubs, the atmosphere was pure carnival, and many of the audience would also be in drag, and it was absolutely intoxicating fun. Ah well, I am an old git now, who dribbles into his cocoa. But well done, Conchita.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
It's the only decent advice my mum gave me. "Never kiss someone with a bushier moustache than you." God I miss you Mum.
And my Dad is a retired ballet teacher. He wasn't very good his teaching degree was only a 2 2.
[ 12. May 2014, 12:42: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
[Replying to Organ Builder, why are you all typing so fast? How Dare You interrupt a hellhost.]
^ Neither am I, particularly. In fact that's what rather annoys me about DD's dear little rant. I don't like drag very much. And I'm gay - somewhere out there is a stereotype that says I ought to love the whole over-the-top glitz and glamour of your average drag queen, but in fact it doesn't really do anything for me.
And I still think that Conchita Wurst is a very impressive singer who earned her victory. In spite of most of her style and genre not being to my personal taste, I can recognise there's a talented voice there.
Whereas all DD can see is a beard near a dress, and at that point the rest of her brain just shut down to the sound of klaxons.
[ 12. May 2014, 12:46: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I suppose a penis inside a dress has always fascinated some people, and horrified others. Transgression is the name of the game, and you mess around with the boundaries and shibboleths. The interesting thing about the beard is that it makes it explicit, whereas the penis is (normally) hidden in the dress. But I like you!
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
It might be somewhat interesting for the discussion that in most countries the points were decided on both by a jury of experts and by the televoting of the public, each being given the same weight. You can see the detailed results here. As it turns out, based on televoting alone Conchita would have won even more clearly, based on the expert juries alone he would still have won. In particular, based on televoting alone he would have received 8 points from Russia (instead of 5)...
I think orfeo's analysis about the appearance of Conchita Wurst was spot on. It is nonsensical to paint Tom Neuwirth's appearance as some kind of valid male dress option. Not because it is impossible that men have long hair or whatever, but because there was a clear intention there to mix conventional male and female appearances. (Incidentally, "Conchita" = "little seashell", a Spanish name, but "concha" is also slang for "pussy / cunt", hence also "little pussy / cunt"; "Wurst" = "sausage" in German.) In the same way this differs from a typical drag act, where the cross-dressing is humorous or at least part of the act. Here I would say it is more intended to be "normal" and part of a message. I think it is entirely fair to Tom Neuwirth's "Conchita Wurst" to consider the apparent male-female mix to be an essential and serious (as in "not intended to amuse") part of what the act is about, not some accidental fashion choice or an added bit of humour.
I have my own reservations about this act and the message it intends to send. Though having seen (on the net, not live) the performance, I would say that purely concerning the singing there is nothing wrong with assigning first price to that. (I have not seen the competitors this time, but I have seen previous Eurovision contests, and this certainly was a good singing performance by the standards there.) I have also seen snippets from interviews in German with Tom Neuwirth and while I disagree with some of his opinions, in those interviews at least there was nothing wrong with his spoken presentation and nothing particularly shrill or outlandish about his comments.
I see little reason to call this man a "monster" then. This means projecting systemic problems on a person, if nothing else. Conchita Wurst may be the Zeitgeist incarnate for a little while, but that does not mean that those who oppose the Zeitgeist on his issues should crucify him. However, we should be clear that there are different levels of "acceptance". Being tolerant of what happens behind closed doors in a private setting is different from what is allowed openly in public is different once more from what is being celebrated. I think it is fair to say that few people in fact consider this victory as purely relevant to the connoisseurs of pop music. This particular celebration has signal value for a "new normal" in wider society, whether that is cheered or hated.
That said, I think the main way in which Conchita Wurst serves the interests of Tom Neuwirth is by provoking an allergic and hateful reaction against which one can establish the moral high ground simply by remaining calm. I think the best way of dealing with Conchita Wurst is to simply agree that he is an accurate enough "personification" of what he stands for. Let everybody see what is to be seen there, without noisy interference from opinionated supporters or detractors, and make a choice based on that.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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The Rogue
Shipmate
# 2275
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Posted
I think it Lord Flasheart who said "I like a woman with a beard - it gives you something to grab hold of".
On the night I liked the song and thought it was performed well although I actually voted for Iceland. I found the beard odd and spent some time wondering if it was a bloke in a dress or a woman with a beard.
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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?
Posts: 2507 | From: Toton | Registered: Feb 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I actually voted for Iceland.
Be ye forever banished to outer darkness.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Raptor Eye:
What's interesting is the way people have come down on DD for being offended by it, as if offence is not allowed in some instances while in others it's compulsory, whether meant or not, as here.
See IngoB's response on this thread. He does not care for cross-dressing for similar reasons to Desert Daughter, but his expression of it is much less offensive.
I would still argue with IngoB on this subject, but without the ire as with DD.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I actually voted for Iceland.
Be ye forever banished to outer darkness.
I didn't pick you as a KJV man.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Evensong:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by The Rogue:
I actually voted for Iceland.
Be ye forever banished to outer darkness.
I didn't pick you as a KJV man.
Genetic memory.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But there were plenty of acts being a bit strange. Ukraine had a man in a hamster wheel, Iceland appeared to be emulating our own Wiggles, Romania had a circular piano and a miraculously disappearing woman, Montenegro roller skated, Poland tried to make household chores into a porno, the Greeks sang on a trampoline, the Russian girls had a see-saw and started off as Siamese twins joined by the hair, Italy was recreating the famous scene from 'Basic Instinct', Slovenia seemed to want to turn a flute into a magic wand, and the French... I don't know what the hell the French had, but it wasn't good.
I absolutely love Eurovision. There is no way any of the songs would ever make it anywhere near my music collection, but it's not about that. It's about entertainment, campness, silliness and togetherness. So for me, the funnier, sillier, more surreal the song the better. I watched it with three other people and for all of us France was our favourite. It was ridiculous, in true Eurovision style, but that's what made it entertaining. So screw all this France-bashing, their song lived up to the Eurovision spirit, just like Jedward and We are the winners of Eurovision before them. And I usually hate Jedward.
Aside from that, well done Conchita, a worthy winner. Desert Daughter, you're talking nonsense. I confess that I also liked the Dutch entry and was glad it did well (though it was a little bit too much like proper music for Eurovision). It might have had something to do with the female singer being enchantingly beautiful - I'm a sucker for a cow-girl.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Romania had a circular piano and a miraculously disappearing woman,
'Miraculously'? Hell, no! Shit-scary more like it. That unnerved me far more than Conchita's beard. And Mrs B and I had far more explaining to our 9 and 6 year-olds about the Polish woman with the big...er...pail (which in our opinion should NOT have been shown before the 9pm watershed) than we had about The Beard™...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Now I've just had to dig up old notes on drag, from when I was involved in a sex and gender study group, and I found the doyenne of gender theorists, Judith Butler, who argued that gender itself is a performance, and that drag can highlight this, and of course, caricature it.
One example often used in such work, is Marilyn Monroe, who is sometimes termed a drag act. Maybe that is unkind though.
But the drag queen who imitates Marilyn may in fact be doing it in an act of adoration, not contempt; but then the person watching the DQ imitate Marilyn is involved in something quite complex.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
'Miraculously'? Hell, no! Shit-scary more like it. That unnerved me far more than Conchita's beard.
Just before she 'disappeared' I'd said "she looks like she's on a green-screen", which kind of spoiled it for us.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Of course, if Desert Daughter finds the idea of men in skirts "monstrous" it will limit her travel, even in the UK. Scotland and parts of Ireland are out for a start because the men wear skirts (that IS what a kilt is, a SKIRT).
Going a little farther afield may not be plain sailing either: cross out the Greek parliament building (soldiers in skirts, SHORT ones too!); most Fijian males are happy in skirts, as are many in Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.
And what does DD think of women in the Andes wearing bowler hats?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
So screw all this France-bashing
While your little house was being all Francophile, 38 countries of Europe were engaging in the biggest France-bash in the entire history of Eurovision.
![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
So for me, the funnier, sillier, more surreal the song the better. I watched it with three other people and for all of us France was our favourite. It was ridiculous, in true Eurovision style, but that's what made it entertaining.
I heartily agree. My two favourites were the French mustache song and the Swiss whistling thing ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif) .
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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goperryrevs
Shipmtae
# 13504
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Posted
Then let us stand shoulder-to-shoulder with our Finish and Swedish comrades (who each gave France a point), Marvin, against the tyrannical groupthink of Europe.
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"Keep your eye on the donut, not on the hole." - David Lynch
Posts: 2098 | From: Midlands | Registered: Mar 2008
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Of course, if Desert Daughter finds the idea of men in skirts "monstrous" it will limit her travel, even in the UK. Scotland and parts of Ireland are out for a start because the men wear skirts (that IS what a kilt is, a SKIRT).
Going a little farther afield may not be plain sailing either: cross out the Greek parliament building (soldiers in skirts, SHORT ones too!); most Fijian males are happy in skirts, as are many in Indonesia, Malaysia, etc.
And what does DD think of women in the Andes wearing bowler hats?
The other interesting thing about this is that women are not compelled to wear skirts or dresses. They can wear pants, boots, shirts, waistcoats, or whatever, except I suppose in conservative areas/groups.
By contrast, men are highly constrained as to dress; I suppose drag breaks through that constraint.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by goperryrevs:
So for me, the funnier, sillier, more surreal the song the better. I watched it with three other people and for all of us France was our favourite. It was ridiculous, in true Eurovision style, but that's what made it entertaining.
I heartily agree. My two favourites were the French mustache song and the Swiss whistling thing .
My favourite didn't even qualify. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I must say I rather fancied him.
I have always liked long flowing hair in a man, and I really like five-o-clock shadow beards too.
Is there a gender for 'fancies tranvestites'?
If there is, I'm it.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
Desert Daughter, honey, if you think that was tacky drag just google The Denver Cycle Sluts - but, honey, don't do it at work!
While no doubt wonderful performers for worthy causes, they need to be renamed. I got my hopes up for nothing.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Is there a gender for 'fancies tranvestites'?
Boogie Knights?
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
And my Dad is a retired ballet teacher. He wasn't very good his teaching degree was only a 2 2.
Hullo. What is wrong with a Tutu degree?
That's what I got. Because I had fun at uni and stopped working too hard.
Regarded as a 'good honours degree' it was worth £2k per annum on top of my basic salary for 40 years and beyond into my teachers' pension.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
2ii is worth fuck all these days. Most graduate recruiters won't look at anything less than a 2i IME.
No-one gets a third any more, as long as they actually do all the coursework and sit the finals.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
2ii is worth fuck all these days. Most graduate recruiters won't look at anything less than a 2i IME.
No-one gets a third any more, as long as they actually do all the coursework and sit the finals.
You'd be surprised. One of my friends from uni managed to get a pass degree. You can't just waffle your way to honours in pure maths. I have a 2:2 but it's a masters (and in 2 well regarded subjects) so I do fine with it.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
And my Dad is a retired ballet teacher. He wasn't very good his teaching degree was only a 2 2.
Hullo. What is wrong with a Tutu degree?
That's what I got. Because I had fun at uni and stopped working too hard.
That explains a lot. Work a bit harder and maybe you'll have something to say here worth reading. Or, at the very least get a joke ... make a change from being a joke.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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The Silent Acolyte
Shipmate
# 1158
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
We have a beard and a male voice counterpoised with a floor-length gown, long hair, painted nails, ear rings, eye makeup.
The majority of male clergy in the main Christian denominations wear floor length gowns, often far more elaborate than this performer's.
And, Beards!! We can't forget the Beards!
What is Forgiveness Vespers without an abundance of pious Beard-Kissing?!
Posts: 7462 | From: The New World | Registered: Aug 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Oh, I get it now! DD doesn't have a problem with drag, it is the venue that was the issue. Conchita Wurst degraded the holy act of drag by performing it outside of a religious ceremony.
[ 13. May 2014, 00:07: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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HughWillRidmee
Shipmate
# 15614
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Desert Daughter:
There is a difference between art (and the quirks of an artist) and wallowing in tasteless vulgarity.
And before anyone starts howling, this is not some homophobic rant. It is simply a deploration of bad taste and decadence.
Surely it can't simultaneously be both "tasteless" and "bad taste" can it?
"taste" is, I suggest, neither good nor bad - simply mine or yours; perhaps socially acceptable/unacceptable; quite often (otherwise unjustifiably) expensive and always, but always, a means of selling others the image of oneself that one thinks will get the desired result.
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The danger to society is not merely that it should believe wrong things.. but that it should become credulous, and lose the habit of testing things and inquiring into them...
W. K. Clifford, "The Ethics of Belief" (1877)
Posts: 894 | From: Middle England | Registered: Apr 2010
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Menopausal women the world over celebrate her ability to make a beard look so damn good on a woman.
I thought she looked like an Assyrian or Babylonian frieze come to life.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Yes! Especially with the gold.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
She's clearly spent too much time at the Pergamonmuseum.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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art dunce
Shipmate
# 9258
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Posted
Sorry for the double post but how is this any different from David Bowie or the New York Dolls or any other awesome androgynous performers? It's not like this is new.
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Ego is not your amigo.
Posts: 1283 | From: in the studio | Registered: Apr 2005
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
quote:
Originally posted by The Silent Acolyte:
We have a beard and a male voice counterpoised with a floor-length gown, long hair, painted nails, ear rings, eye makeup.
The majority of male clergy in the main Christian denominations wear floor length gowns, often far more elaborate than this performer's.
And, Beards!! We can't forget the Beards!
What is Forgiveness Vespers without an abundance of pious Beard-Kissing?!
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sorry for the double post but how is this any different from David Bowie or the New York Dolls or any other awesome androgynous performers? It's not like this is new.
I remember the first time Boy George appeared on Top of the Pops. There was much squinting at the television.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Well, digital broadcasting should have fixed that for you now.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Evensong
Shipmate
# 14696
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
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Originally posted by Evensong:
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Originally posted by orfeo:
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Originally posted by The Rogue:
I actually voted for Iceland.
Be ye forever banished to outer darkness.
I didn't pick you as a KJV man.
Genetic memory.
You made me Google. Bastard.
You are redeemed however. I love Epigenetics.
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a theological scrapbook
Posts: 9481 | From: Australia | Registered: Apr 2009
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
For the sake of accuracy:
Hermaphrodism refers to biological sex, and does not actually exist in humans. It describes other animals such as snails that can be either biologically male or female, and can usually change their sex (sex, not gender - the two are different).
Humans who have chromosones other than XX or XY, or who display the secondary sex characteristics of another sex, are intersex not hermaphrodites - before anyone accuses this of being 'PC', intersex is the official medical term used since hermaphrodite is just biologically inaccurate.
Conchita Wurst (the character) is gender-neutral but uses female pronouns - not a female character.
Dana International is not a drag act but is a transgender woman. 'Transsexual' is an outdated term, since transgender is about gender and not sex. Being transgender is also not reliant on gender reassignment surgery status, as not all trans people are able to access this or even want it, so referring to people as 'pre-op' or 'post-op' is unnecessary.
None of this is criticism, just information.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Piglet
Islander
# 11803
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
... I remember the first time Boy George appeared on Top of the Pops. There was much squinting at the television.
Squinting at the television?? I thought "what an unusual looking girl" until someone actually told me he was a bloke. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music
Posts: 20272 | From: Fredericton, NB, on a rather larger piece of rock | Registered: Sep 2006
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Jack o' the Green
Shipmate
# 11091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sorry for the double post but how is this any different from David Bowie or the New York Dolls or any other awesome androgynous performers? It's not like this is new.
I remember the first time Boy George appeared on Top of the Pops. There was much squinting at the television.
I thought it made you go blind.
Posts: 3121 | From: Lancashire, England | Registered: Feb 2006
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yonatan:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by art dunce:
Sorry for the double post but how is this any different from David Bowie or the New York Dolls or any other awesome androgynous performers? It's not like this is new.
I remember the first time Boy George appeared on Top of the Pops. There was much squinting at the television.
I thought it made you go blind.
I wasn't doing that. Especially with my parents in the room.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
I must say I rather fancied him.
I have always liked long flowing hair in a man, and I really like five-o-clock shadow beards too.
Is there a gender for 'fancies tranvestites'?
If there is, I'm it.
Fancying someone doesn't change your gender. Do you mean sexual orientation? Given that cross-dressers (transvestite is a v outdated term) are more often than not straight men, it would just make you a straight woman - a man in a dress is still a man.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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