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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Olaf
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
I remember being trekked from school to church on some day of festivity which must have been Ascension day. There was still an Easter garden filling the chapel of the local saint. ("Miss S may not have taught you to read," said a fellow teacher years later, "but she will have taught you the saints' days." No she didn't - my mother took me away after the reading thing.) I was very naughty and did not bow my head to the local saint because we didn't do saints in our church. (Sorry - I missed out respecting a teenage female Jutish engineer who died at 22 from nursing plague victims.)
[ 05. June 2014, 11:29: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
My church did not have an Ascension service. I would have liked to have one very much. However, in general our rector does an excellent job, and he's a very nice human being.
I have accepted the fact that I can't have everything.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Organ Builder
Shipmate
# 12478
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
And yet a great many people, on multiple threads now across multiple boards, have pointed out that their own personal history involves vast swathes of the church that haven't observed the Ascension on a Thursday, only on the following Sunday.
This doesn't appeared to have been a schism-worthy failing, until now.
I'm not sure it can be called "schism-worthy" even now, but I'm too guilty of using hyperbole myself to justifiably criticize someone else for it.
I do think it is interesting to note that when the topic first came up in Ecclesiantics, though, almost everyone who commented on the first page was celebrating Ascension and most, though not all, were doing so on Thursday. It may not be that unusual--Eccles has its continuing cast of characters just as the Hell board does, but I think it does show that in strongly liturgical traditions the thought of an Ascension Thursday Mass shouldn't be considered beyond the pale whether or not one's own parish may be choosing to offer it.
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How desperately difficult it is to be honest with oneself. It is much easier to be honest with other people.--E.F. Benson
Posts: 3337 | From: ...somewhere in between 40 and death... | Registered: Mar 2007
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I have accepted the fact that I can't have everything.
Easy to say when you're a rational adult who doesn't think the world revolves around you.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
Organ Builder and Moo are very wise.
Until we get "like" buttons, I'm just going to do that from now on.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Until we get "like" buttons, I'm just going to do that from now on.
"Until?" Hell will freeze the fuck over before anyone here allows stupid shit like that to take root. Fight the facebookification of the Internet, comrades!
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I do not belong to Facebook and I never will.
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PeteC:
Olaf should come over to the dark side. My Church always celebrates Ascension - it is always translated to the nearest Sunday.
Ha! The Plot™ always celebrates Ascension -- ON ASCENSION. Although we have our share of bitter and troublemaking converts at the moment, so never mind.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
It’s actually a bit more complicated … Each congregation is going to have its own set of expectations – spoken and unspoken – about what the Minister does. And most of them only start at, “Says Mass”. ...
Congregations want church resources used wisely – until it means something they value stops. It’s fine for congregations to be too busy during the week to do anything, but the Minister should always be available and there should always be something going on. ...
This dialogue is going to get more pointed as Ministry changes. Olaf wants Ministers to embrace part time and post retirement working, justify how they spend their time etc. All very sensible – but that means congregation’s expectations also need to change. In some cases, these changes mean Ministers will be doing less. If your Minister is part time and only works two days a week at church, plus Sunday then you’re not going to get a special, one off service for blah if it falls on a day that the Minister doesn’t work. Even if it means that it can’t happen because s/he’s not there. Part time means exactly that and there won’t always be someone else available to cover.
Strangely enough, within a few minutes of Tubbs writing that, a (supposedly national) meeting of Baptist Ministers in London was saying exactly the same thing ...
Or was Tubbs secretly posting from the back pew?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
[QUOTE] No, but saying Mass is the only thing they do that cannot be done by anyone else.
Is it not time to rethink, then, just who can say Mass and reflect on what "ordination" might mean in a 21st century context?
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Tubbs:
[qb] Strangely enough, within a few minutes of Tubbs writing that, a (supposedly national) meeting of Baptist Ministers in London was saying exactly the same thing ...
Or was Tubbs secretly posting from the back pew?
Cor, what was that and why wasn't I invited? (screams). That's your liberal partiality against us radicals, that is.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Is it not time to rethink, then, just who can say Mass and reflect on what "ordination" might mean in a 21st century context?
Some ideas on this
No 6 is my favourite, but I suspect the CofE will opt to continue its default mode of 12.
The masses will continue not attending church unless they have to for the rites of passage, or giving any more money than they have to, and the church will continue doing what it is doing in the hope that suddenly the masses will see the light and flock in. ![[Confused]](confused.gif)
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
6 is good. I think that most congregations could find, from their number, a responsible and respectable and sensible person who could be ordained to ensure that the sacraments are celebrated. Just a 'Mass priest', some might say, but why not? Better that than no Mass at all. If s/he can preach, too, that's good: otherwise, provide a new version of the Book of Homilies, presumably as an online resource.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Strangely enough, within a few minutes of Tubbs writing that, a (supposedly national) meeting of Baptist Ministers in London was saying exactly the same thing ...
Or was Tubbs secretly posting from the back pew?
Cor, what was that and why wasn't I invited? (screams). That's your liberal partiality against us radicals, that is.
It was open to all (mind you, there were only about 35 present) ... they're going to do another but it will be in Huddersfield. (I'm not a member of the Baptist Ministers' Fellowship BTW, I heard of this through my Association).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Thyme:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Is it not time to rethink, then, just who can say Mass and reflect on what "ordination" might mean in a 21st century context?
Some ideas on this
No 6 is my favourite, but I suspect the CofE will opt to continue its default mode of 12.
Heh, if ordination is still judged to be necessary for one to preside at a communion service, then indeed why not offer ordination to everyone? I like it!
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
I'm not ordained as Minister of Word & Sacrament, though I am ordained as an Elder. I am authorised, by decision of Church Meeting and confirmed by the denomination, to preside at Communion in my church. I lead worship, preaching and presiding, about 6 times a year. I can only preside at another church if the Church Meeting there decides to permit me. It works for us, it means we can celebrate weekly Communion with a minister who serves two churches. We do have a bit of palaver (limiting to Elders, an input from the denominational offices confirming the call to preside, some training) to temper our natural inclination that anyone the congregation recognises may preside for ecumenical reasons.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
No, but saying Mass is the only thing they do that cannot be done by anyone else.
Is it not time to rethink, then, just who can say Mass and reflect on what "ordination" might mean in a 21st century context?
Ooh, YES PLEASE!
Option 6 from that other link is the way to go.
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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fletcher christian
Mutinous Seadog
# 13919
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Posted
I'm not sure this is a 'fix', although I do think there are some advantages to locally ordained 'massing priests'. In some circumstances, depending on where it happens some would weigh up the time and effort out in to creating a service to which only one person turns up. Personally that would not bother me, but I can understand that for some it would eventually dishearten. An issue that hasn't really been touched on, which I suspect is actually a very real contributing factor for many parishes, is the cost of heat and light (depending of course when the feast falls), especially in any parish where there are seriously limited resources.
I don't know if it was on this thread or another, but the idea of having a joint or combined service within a particular geographical area is one that to my mind makes a lot of sense.
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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan
Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
Strangely enough, within a few minutes of Tubbs writing that, a (supposedly national) meeting of Baptist Ministers in London was saying exactly the same thing ...
Or was Tubbs secretly posting from the back pew?
Cor, what was that and why wasn't I invited? (screams). That's your liberal partiality against us radicals, that is.
It was open to all (mind you, there were only about 35 present) ... they're going to do another but it will be in Huddersfield. (I'm not a member of the Baptist Ministers' Fellowship BTW, I heard of this through my Association).
Your link is busted. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
No one in their right mind is going to invite me to a national minister's conference. ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Churches that operate on a self funding model for minitry - with a very small central pot for those that can't - face the danger that full time, paid Ministry is going end up being the preserve of wealthy churches. And there's a limited nubmer of those.
Other churches will either not be able to have a minister, share one with others, have a part timer or non-stipendary.
That's going to mean a fairly radical change in the understanding of Ministry and the Call as well at all levels - Assocation, Ministers and congregations. As well as the day to day challenges mentioned previously.
Then there's all the practical things - like how many people train for Ministry if there are less jobs for them to fill. (Not the same as how many get called btw). Some new grads may be in a position to go part time, combine Ministry with another job or be non-stipendary. But some won't. (This could skew things regionally as well due to differences in employment prospects).
OTH, if they do want to invite me to speak, my rates are quite cheap! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Tubbs
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
I'm not ordained as Minister of Word & Sacrament, though I am ordained as an Elder. I am authorised, by decision of Church Meeting and confirmed by the denomination, to preside at Communion in my church. I lead worship, preaching and presiding, about 6 times a year. I can only preside at another church if the Church Meeting there decides to permit me. It works for us, it means we can celebrate weekly Communion with a minister who serves two churches. We do have a bit of palaver (limiting to Elders, an input from the denominational offices confirming the call to preside, some training) to temper our natural inclination that anyone the congregation recognises may preside for ecumenical reasons.
I, too, am an elder (PC(USA)), but for us it works a little differently. Presuming I undergo necessary training, I could be commissioned by presbytery to preach and celebrate the sacraments, for a limited time, in a congregation (other than my own) that lacks a minister. Only elders may be commissioned by presbytery in this way.
The other thing that strikes me as I read through this thread and the Ascension Day thread is that in our set-up, only the Session—the council of elders that governs and has care for the congregation—can authorize celebration of the sacraments. That means that while a minister must preside at the Eucharist, the decision whether or not a service will include the Eucharist is not made by that minister alone. In most congregations, the Session typically approves a year-long calendar that specifies all celebrations of the Eucharist during that time, though this can ne revisted at any time. This means, for example, that were an Ascension Day Eucharist desired, the decision would not be the minister's, though it certainly would not be made without her input and awareness of her availability. The decision of whether to have a service that day and whether that service would include Communion would be Session's.
The theory behind both authorization of celebration of the sacraments by Session and presidency by the minister is to ensure order and that celebrations of sacraments are acts of the church, not of individuals within the church. But reading this thread I think a practical purpose is that celebrations on special days other than Sundays have some vetting and buy-in in advance, as well as a chance for discussion as to when the congregation might particularly want "special" services and might want the Eucharist celebrated at them.
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
Posts: 2833 | From: On heaven-crammed earth | Registered: Sep 2009
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Raptor Eye
Shipmate
# 16649
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
No, but saying Mass is the only thing they do that cannot be done by anyone else.
Is it not time to rethink, then, just who can say Mass and reflect on what "ordination" might mean in a 21st century context?
Ooh, YES PLEASE!
Option 6 from that other link is the way to go.
I'm not sure about option 6. There surely is a difference between callings and God-given authority. Whether ordination still means to everyone a calling into a holy order is questionable however, and I do think that a lot of reflection and prayer is needed.
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Be still, and know that I am God! Psalm 46.10
Posts: 4359 | From: The United Kingdom | Registered: Sep 2011
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Then he left and we got a new pastor. She was there for over a year and during that time she did one thing only. She did the Sunday service complete with Eucharist and a fluffy ten minute sermon. That was all. She never once kept the Wednesday or Saturday office hours she had promised, she went to zero meetings or home visitations, and worst of all, she never returned a single phone call. Lifetime members of that church died and were buried without her help.
Twilight, just so it's clear, I'm not saying that this is how a priest or pastor should be. Your minister was short-changing her parish, obviously. What I mean to say is that Eucharist is foundational, and neglecting to celebrate it on a holy day for which the BCP provides propers in order to conduct meetings or whatever is a sign that one's priorities are ass-backwards.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Never mind the BCP (the RCL provides readings, in fact, for morning prayer and evening prayer of the day), within the Anglican church Ascension Sunday is one of the eight Principle Festivals.
My guess that a Mass (or whatever you may wish to call it) would have taken place in parishes where it hadn't, if enough people would have shown willingness to attend/sing in the choir, if they have one/do sacristan duties/open and close the church/handle lighting and books or service sheets. Generally, a less priest-focussed orientation (while reserving the sacraments to them but with flexible things like having Eucharistic Ministers like the RCs do) would be better for everyone.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
I am very late to this thread. But I want to distance myself from those clerics who have got so worked up about this. I think Olaf is right, because I think it's about priorities. Every now and then I need someone like Olaf to remind me what my priorities should be.
There is a true story of a priest visiting Nepal. His guide tells him "We love your Catholic Church. You build us hospitals, you give us clinics, you provide us with schools, you feed the poor people. But we are puzzled. Why do you not have any holy men?"
Indeed.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Thyme
Shipmate
# 12360
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Posted
Triple Tiara ![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) Thank you!
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The Church in its own bubble has become, at best the guardian of the value system of the nation’s grandparents, and at worst a den of religious anoraks defined by defensiveness, esoteric logic and discrimination. Bishop of Buckingham's blog
Posts: 600 | From: Cloud Cuckoo Land | Registered: Feb 2007
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
I am very late to this thread. But I want to distance myself from those clerics who have got so worked up about this. I think Olaf is right, because I think it's about priorities. Every now and then I need someone like Olaf to remind me what my priorities should be.
How nice for you. All that it means is that you have misread the thread.
Olaf has repeatedly whined in Ecclesiantics about clergy not doing what he wants. Some of what he wants is legitimate, some is ridiculous, some merely matters of taste. All of it demonstrates that he has no understanding or sympathy with actual pastoral ministry as it is lived in his context. He was called to Hell for saying, "Heh...I've long given up expecting clergy to do their job." That includes you, my dear distancing brother. Do you think you would be the one and only clergy who could please Olaf? Blessed art thou if that would be true!
Anyone who thinks that this is about clergy not wanting to lead worship on Ascension Day has got it entirely, back-assward, up the wazoo wrong. Lamb Chopped (I think it was) pointed out "I can't think of a single Lutheran pastor who would not be delighted to have to put on a non-Sunday service because there were a bunch of people eager and ready to attend one." This is also my experience.
You may point out that expectations around leading worship are different between RC's and Lutherans, and you would be correct. Lutherans would be extremely, vanishingly unlikely to initiate or keep holding a service at which there was only one other participant. In Lutheran polity, that does not make them lazy, but sensible.
Olaf suffers from a doctrinal/liturgical split in which he professes to love Lutheran doctrine while also loving an RC sensibility about worship leadership. I pity him, because rare is the Lutheran parish which would fit his needs (and no clergy, apparently ![[Frown]](frown.gif) ). But the Hellish point is that no clergy, anywhere, by his own admission, lives up to his standards. Not even you, TT.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Triple Tiara
Ship's Papabile
# 9556
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Posted
And I think you protest too much.
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I'm a Roman. You may call me Caligula.
Posts: 5905 | From: London, England | Registered: May 2005
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
Ha! My sins are as scarlet, but liturgical laziness is not one of them.
If anything you may accuse me of sensitivity to unfairness, as I find myself in the crosshairs along with other less defensible clergy. But then I wonder, "Jesus, why are any of us in the crosshairs? Why are we shooting at our own army?"
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
[QUOTE]
No one in their right mind is going to invite me to a national minister's conference.
OTH, if they do want to invite me to speak, my rates are quite cheap!
Tubbs
Nor me - I'm expensive as well. Consultancy Rates start at £130 per hour ....
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
I am unsure if there are many good excuses for omitting observance of the Ascension.
And yet a great many people, on multiple threads now across multiple boards, have pointed out that their own personal history involves vast swathes of the church that haven't observed the Ascension on a Thursday, only on the following Sunday.
This doesn't appeared to have been a schism-worthy failing, until now.
I did not mean to imply that Baptist ministers, for example, should be castigated for failing to observe the Ascension on Thursday. My point was directed towards those denominations where the importance of the Ascension is specifically promoted as a feast of the highest order. It seems odd to affiliate with a denomination with such views, yet spurn this observation, not even based on theology, but based on logistics.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Nor me - I'm expensive as well. Consultancy Rates start at £130 per hour ....
Does that include expenses, sustentation and/or VAT?
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Heh, if ordination is still judged to be necessary for one to preside at a communion service, then indeed why not offer ordination to everyone? I like it!
Marco Polo's Travels contains an anecdote somewhere about a very isolated Nestorian community in Central Asia which received a visit from its bishop about once every fifty years. In consequence absolutely everyone in the community got ordained, on the grounds that they wouldn't get a second chance for another half-century ...
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
I am very late to this thread. But I want to distance myself from those clerics who have got so worked up about this. I think Olaf is right, because I think it's about priorities. Every now and then I need someone like Olaf to remind me what my priorities should be.
There is a true story of a priest visiting Nepal. His guide tells him "We love your Catholic Church. You build us hospitals, you give us clinics, you provide us with schools, you feed the poor people. But we are puzzled. Why do you not have any holy men?"
Indeed.
Just to be clear TTT are you suggesting that having a Ascension Day Eucharist (or being more devoted to the Eucharistic generally) equates directly to being a holy man?
Pyx_e
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Triple Tiara:
I am very late to this thread. But I want to distance myself from those clerics who have got so worked up about this.
And I for one am grateful for your distancing, keep it up!
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
My point was directed towards those denominations where the importance of the Ascension is specifically promoted as a feast of the highest order. It seems odd to affiliate with a denomination with such views, yet spurn this observation, not even based on theology, but based on logistics.
And which part of theology says that the only way you can legitimately observe Ascension Day is with a communion service?
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Nor me - I'm expensive as well. Consultancy Rates start at £130 per hour ....
Does that include expenses, sustentation and/or VAT?
The first two, not the latter: I can get there on that and feed myself. As regards VAT I'm currently under the threshold.
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
My point was directed towards those denominations where the importance of the Ascension is specifically promoted as a feast of the highest order. It seems odd to affiliate with a denomination with such views, yet spurn this observation, not even based on theology, but based on logistics.
And which part of theology says that the only way you can legitimately observe Ascension Day is with a communion service?
Certainly this is not strictly required, but if one worships in a tradition that considers the Holy Eucharist to be the core of the worship service, it is certainly odd to omit it, particularly on such an important day that outranks the importance of normal Sunday observations, for example.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leaf:
Ha! My sins are as scarlet, but liturgical laziness is not one of them.
If anything you may accuse me of sensitivity to unfairness, as I find myself in the crosshairs along with other less defensible clergy. But then I wonder, "Jesus, why are any of us in the crosshairs? Why are we shooting at our own army?"
Olaf is taking up way too much space in your head. If you want to keep reading Ecclesiantics and not be troubled by his posts, just scroll right past them. So that we weak creatures need not be bothered by such things was in fact the very reason God created the scroll feature.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Tubbs:
[QUOTE]
No one in their right mind is going to invite me to a national minister's conference.
OTH, if they do want to invite me to speak, my rates are quite cheap!
Tubbs
Nor me - I'm expensive as well. Consultancy Rates start at £130 per hour ....
If they went for the twofer, I reckon their little heads would explode. ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
TT, what I resent about Olaf's comments is the unspoken assumption that when something doesn't happen in church / something happens that you don't approve of, it's always because the Minister is a lazy git or a bad lot etc. Whilst there will be times when that's the case, sometimes it's not. Sometimes it's because the congregation don't see the need to combine wanting something with actually doing something about it. Like turning up.
Tubbs
[ 07. June 2014, 22:10: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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Leaf
Shipmate
# 14169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
Olaf is taking up way too much space in your head.
I am sorry I gave that impression. Mostly my headspace is taken up by Jesus and gardening these days.
quote:
If you want to keep reading Ecclesiantics and not be troubled by his posts, just scroll right past them. So that we weak creatures need not be bothered by such things was in fact the very reason God created the scroll feature.
I am aware of this option, thank you. If your sage advice were equally applied all over the Ship, there would be no need for Hell to exist. Yet people continue to be irritated by other people's remarks and call them to Hell, such as Pyx_e has here.
Posts: 2786 | From: the electrical field | Registered: Oct 2008
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Pyx_e, ignoring Ruth's advice since 2001.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
And look what happens.
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
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Posted
Yeah, but it's entertaining!
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
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Amazing Grace
High Church Protestant
# 95
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Posted
I'm looking for the "like" button so hard on that!
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WTFWED? "Remember to always be yourself, unless you suck" - the Gator
Memory Eternal! Sheep 3, Phil the Wise Guy, and Jesus' Evil Twin in the SoF Nativity Play
Posts: 6593 | From: Sittin' by the dock of the [SF] bay | Registered: Jul 2003
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