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Source: (consider it) Thread: Paintings release redemption: official
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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Eutychus you unconscionable bastard. I just followed that link to Theresa Dedmon's bio; I don't suppose there's any chance that God will release a Spirit of How To Write In English upon her exalted personage any time soon?

For crimes against language alone she should be cast into the outer darkness, before we even get to the "over-realised" spirituality bollocks.

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

Posts: 1399 | From: just north of That London | Registered: Dec 2009  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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I am currently browsing the net prophetically, to release the Spirit of How To Write In English upon our dear sister in Christ.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I think the difference, Schroedinger's Cat is that most artists, musicians, poets, novelists, playwrights, sculptors, and origami practitioners don't consider their work to have the kind of cosmic significance that is being claimed in this instance.

Absolutely - most artists produce their art, and either consider it to be total crap or need to have others to stroke their ego and convince them that it is good and worth something.

There are comparatively few who consider their own art to be significant or important. At least until others have told them it is.

This level of masturbatory indulgence sucks. The fact that it is clothed in spiritual terms makes no difference. If, say, Tracey Emin were to claim that her Unmade Bed was so good it would impact the whole of the UK, most people would have laughed at her. And she is talented, her art does have an impact.

This piece is moderately pleasant. The artist is OK, but not special. And yet she claims a significance to her work that would attract ridicule and claims of an ego beyond even most artists. And yet in Christian circles, she is tolerated and approved of.

The problem is that this is far more widespread. If you put spiritual words around monkey spanking, it becomes something to be lauded, not ridiculed.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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JoannaP
Shipmate
# 4493

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quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
I'm planning an interpretative dance for Slovenia, ...

Just don't do as a priest of another diocese did at their 150th anniversary and do the dance clad in lycra. He was rather overweight and the sight was...odd. And though you, as I recall, are not overweight, and a reasonably fine figure of a man (so my wife says)...no lycra.

But dance on...Slovenia can use all the help it can get.

John

The church I go to is celebrating its 150th anniversary in a couple of weeks. The thought of Fr Matthew clad in lycra doing an interpretative dance is...interesting [Ultra confused]

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"Freedom for the pike is death for the minnow." R. H. Tawney (quoted by Isaiah Berlin)

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." Benjamin Franklin

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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

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I used to know the very sensible editor of a particular magazine that was popular for a time in certain charismatic circles. He used to regularly receive doggerel poems from people who claimed to received them 'from the Lord.'

He quipped that as he tossed them into the wastepaper basket he would say, 'The Lord gaveth ... and the Lord taketh away ...'

[Big Grin]

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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My biggest problem with this is that I have an old friend who:
a) is deeply involved in these kinds of churches
b) has, in recent years, taken up painting as a hobby (some may say an infatuation)
c) is foolish enough to buy all this crap

Fortunately, there is now an ocean and a continent between us. But I have a nasty feeling that she will start 'prophetic painting' and expect us to appreciate her 'prophecies' when we next see her. [Frown]

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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I quite liked the one with the dancer twirling in glory. Although it did look like someone drowning in a whirlpool of doubt and detritus to me.

I fear I am not anointed.

Actually, I'm positive i'm not anointed ...

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Sorry to get all Purgatorial in spite of myself, but are you sure you aren't? There's a verse in 1 John 2 that says all believers are anointed and that God's anointing remains in us.

That's one of the things that annoys me about this lot. They are trying to corner the market on the anointing when in fact the Holy Spirit has been poured out on all flesh. Ezekiel for one had some decidedly Hellish things to say about people who tried to do that.

[ 23. June 2014, 17:14: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Because this is Hell, and my last post above linked to a picture of an asshole, I thought I should link to a real artistic picture of a group of assholes. The picture of this sculpture is obviously not true to life though, because no one is getting redeemed and the drowning people will be us not them.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29

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I can't get past this line in the "About" section of her website:
quote:
She activates churches in how to touch their community through creative expressions and love.
What does this even mean?! I can't figure out what "activate" means in this context.

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Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!

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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894

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no prophet—disappointing NSFW-link checking Hellhosts since 2010.

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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{Purg:ON}
I agree, I was merely distancing myself from the use of anointing in the immediate context.
{Purg:OFF}

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38

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quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I can't get past this line in the "About" section of her website:
quote:
She activates churches in how to touch their community through creative expressions and love.
What does this even mean?! I can't figure out what "activate" means in this context.
Honestly, I don't know what it means either. My Enigma machine isn't calibrated for Bethelspeak. But taking a rough guess, I'd suggest it means something like "she'll get you to do artsy stuff you can show off to your local community who will like it". Though if so, the evidence is pretty slender I must say.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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irish_lord99
Shipmate
# 16250

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
What scares me is that I can just see these people ten years down the line, when real life has hit them hard, right in the face, and I'm afraid their faith is going to completely vanish. It looks like a delusion to me. They need a strong dose of reality if they're going to develop a Christian faith that will last long term. (wish I could take them round the metro area for a week or two, shadowing a pastor)

A friend's Mom attends Bethel. Just before the real estate crash she invested her life's savings into local residential properties because someone at the 'church' had a 'prophetic' revelation that Bethel would attract so many people that real estate values in Redding CA would skyrocket.

She lost everything in the crash. Still a Bethel believer.

There is no 'real life' for those who have bought into this shit, only 'testings of their faith' and 'rewards for their faith.' Nothing is concrete, nothing is absolute, and nothing is real outside of the Bethel-zone reality.

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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715

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It's the fruit cake zone once again.

When will the church start distancing itself from this rubbish? She's so far up herself that it's surprising she's not 99% invisible -- there's a distinct lack of humility in claiming that you can impart anything, yet it's plastered all over the web site.

Perhaps the minor in Bible Studies needs to become a major - or rather a real life encounter with God is necessary to do the trick.

I pray for people taken in by this bilge but hey it's just Bethel's latest marketing ploy. The fact that they move from thing to thing suggests that they are trying to keep one step in from of exposure. They just make the work harder for the rest of us.

Where are the gemstones now Bill?

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by irish_lord99:
A friend's Mom attends Bethel. Just before the real estate crash she invested her life's savings into local residential properties because someone at the 'church' had a 'prophetic' revelation that Bethel would attract so many people that real estate values in Redding CA would skyrocket.

I seem to remember reading a secular news article that said the town council were quite pleased at all the business Bethel was attracting to Redding, which as I understand it is not the wealthiest of locations...
quote:
There is no 'real life' for those who have bought into this shit, only 'testings of their faith' and 'rewards for their faith.' Nothing is concrete, nothing is absolute, and nothing is real outside of the Bethel-zone reality.
That's well-put and corresponds to the mindset of our friends here who are now into it. The whole thing is a complete distraction.

(nice to see you around by the way!)

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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OK, I can't take it anymore-- can someone tell me what "releasing redemption" even means?

Like a flock of birds or something? Like a flask of ebola? what?

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
OK, I can't take it anymore-- can someone tell me what "releasing redemption" even means?

Like a flock of birds or something? Like a flask of ebola? what?

God was refusing to do anything for France until she finished this painting. Because God hates her and France, and so was letting then suffer.

Then she finished it and God to do something in France. However she actually made a very slight mistake so God is actually going to continue ignoring France.

Because her God is a vindictive little shit.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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RELEASE THE KRAKEN!

On a slightly more hostly note... folks, Hell is not an anti-Purgatory, it's more a Purgatory supplement or Purgatory with extra. You're perfectly free to say anything 'Purgatorial' here in Hell. The converse does not apply - you can't say Hellish things in Purgatory.

We don't say biting, nasty things peppered with swear words down here because we must. We do it because sometimes it feels bloody good and here is the one bit of the Ship where we may.

orfeo
Hellhost and occasional releaser of various things, including the hounds, grudges and farts


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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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The Rhythm Methodist
Shipmate
# 17064

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
OK, I can't take it anymore-- can someone tell me what "releasing redemption" even means?

Releasing things, like prophecy, "words"(or in this case redemption) is a charismatic affectation which is designed to lend importance to what they say and , of course, to themselves. Taking this particular usage, "releasing redemption" means.....nothing.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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What would really mess with their minds would be to sign up with my e-mail hosting provider. On the webmail's click-and drag facility for sending files from your desktop, the following message appears

quote:
Release to attach
(More seriously, saying you are "releasing" something of course assumes you have the authority to do the releasing, too... more power trips)

[ 24. June 2014, 15:52: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38

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quote:
Originally posted by The Rhythm Methodist:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:
OK, I can't take it anymore-- can someone tell me what "releasing redemption" even means?

Releasing things, like prophecy, "words"(or in this case redemption) is a charismatic affectation which is designed to lend importance to what they say and , of course, to themselves. Taking this particular usage, "releasing redemption" means.....nothing.
That's a shame. I'd envisaged it as more like a sort of supernatural scratch'n'sniff technology.

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Anglo-Cthulhic

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Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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So, is it like the way a company releases a new version of software?

"Here'e the latest, greatest thing.... Ooops. Sorry, we've just cocked up. We'll install a fix once we've worked out where we went wrong."

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Snags
Utterly socially unrealistic
# 15351

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I seriously hope my redemption isn't in beta ...

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Vain witterings :-: Vain pretentions :-: The Dog's Blog(locks)

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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What do you think Alpha courses are for?

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

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quote:
Originally posted by Siegfried:
I can't get past this line in the "About" section of her website:
quote:
She activates churches in how to touch their community through creative expressions and love.
What does this even mean?! I can't figure out what "activate" means in this context.
Honestly, I don't know what it means either. My Enigma machine isn't calibrated for Bethelspeak. But taking a rough guess, I'd suggest it means something like "she'll get you to do artsy stuff you can show off to your local community who will like it". Though if so, the evidence is pretty slender I must say. [/QB][/QUOTE]

I think it's supposed to mean more than that, that there is some kind of special spiritual radioactivity that is somehow imparted through the artworks themselves.

These people would probably be the first to criticise the Orthodox for their iconography but they are essentially making similar claims - albeit in a pretty cack-handed way.

I think there are extremes and superstition in the way icons are used/deployed in popular Orthodoxy - as indeed in popular Roman Catholicism - but the theology of iconography is rather more developed and nuanced.

Can anything good come out of Bethel?
[Roll Eyes]

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Isn't this a bit like the sort of thing the pagans get up to? Magic?
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

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There is, of course, a subtext to:

'She activates churches in how to touch their community through creative expressions and love.'

And translated from Bethel-ese what it is really saying is:

'Actually, she's not that good an artist. If she was she'd be teaching adult evening classes or art courses at a proper college or something so instead what she's doing is trying to make the most out of her mediocre talent by touting it around the kind of churches who are gullible enough to buy-into her super-spiritualised view of the world and thereby make some money out of them in a way that she couldn't elsewhere ...'

And more fool them for swallowing it.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Isn't this a bit like the sort of thing the pagans get up to? Magic?

It's exactly like magic in that it assumes that correct manipulation of inanimate objects, or using the correct language, will systematically produce a specific result, independently of any divine agency, within the power of the operator.

Ironically, the best denunciation of this I've read is in Surprised by the Voice of God by Jack Deere, at that time associated with the Kansas City Prophets. Go figure.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Twangist:
Prophetic balloon modelling anybody?

You tell me. Is Bethel and prophetic balloon-modelling strictly spiritually incorrect in Newfrontiers these days? Inquiring minds want to know...
Sorry missed this..
Some bits of the evil empire (well empires/spheres/whatever these days) formerly known as NFI seem to be more into that sort of things than others. TO be fair we have a good track record of slagging off some of the sillier emphasises of charismania teratorial spirits, representational repentance etc. However "Treasure hunting" has been taken up by some folk.
I've not picked up on Bethel stuff plugged at anything I've attended and have allways been pretty negative about it on here.
TBH I've heard more about Bethel from New Winey/Vineyardy types who seem to like it.
Need to find some dubious OT precendent to sell some crappy homemade CDs of bad blues guitar [Biased]

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JJ
SDG
blog

Posts: 604 | From: Devon | Registered: Feb 2011  |  IP: Logged
Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812

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I haven't had much close interaction with NFI in recent years but I have friends who are still involved and what Twangist has written chimes well with me.

I think that New Wine and Vineyard types are more likely to be seduced by Betheldom - partly because they lack the kind of Calvinistic rigour that is a feature of some NFI settings. I'm not saying that I'm entirely comfortable with all aspects of the Calvinistic emphasis - some NFI people combine both Calvinist and charismatic extremes - but generally speaking, as far as charismaticdom goes, a dose of Calvinism can and does provide some much needed ballast.

Even in New Wine and Vineyard circles, I suspect, there is a certain selectivity when it comes to what is taken on board from Bethel. The 'Treasure Hunting' thing seems to have struck a chord more widely than other aspects - perhaps because it gives the semblance of achieving measurable and quantifiable results.

After all, statistically speaking, if you go into the town centre on any Saturday afternoon the chances of you meeting a lady called Sharon in a Primark top whose son is struggling with his GCSEs is going to be quite high ...

My guess would be that most other groups who are exposed to Bethelism will take what they want and leave the rest. 'Treasure Hunting' in its turn will be replaced by some other fad in due course.

As for the art and creativity emphasis - in some ways this isn't a bad thing given that some elements within evangelicalism have always had a bit of a problem with the arts. If people get switched on to painting and drawing and expressing themselves creatively in some way or other then that's not a bad thing in and of itself.

The dross will fall away without us having to give it a nudge or take the mickey out of it.

'The dross you will always have with you ...'

What I think is sad about the whole Bethel thing is the potential for it to misdirect energy that has the potential to be used so positively. People get hurt by this stuff.

--------------------
Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

http://philthebard.blogspot.com

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
misdirect energy

[Ultra confused]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Twangist
Shipmate
# 16208

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
misdirect energy

[Ultra confused]
activating surely ....

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JJ
SDG
blog

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Come to think of it, this 'activating' business is probably the result of someone stumbling across a chemistry textbook and learning about catalysis. She's a catalyst, yo.

Which probably means that she points at a lot of things that were going to happen anyway and claims a bit of credit for them.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Maybe it's like activated charcoal. We use it in our aquarium for fish shit.

[ 25. June 2014, 01:38: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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It strikes me that anyone who claims to be a prophet of God by that very act proves herself not to be.

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
What do you think Alpha courses are for?

Quotes file.

(with sufficient context to set up the joke)

quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
quote:
Originally posted by Twangist:
Prophetic balloon modelling anybody?

I think I will propose a course of prophetic wanking.

TBH, a lot of this is not that different. Self pleasuring artists.

Isn't most art primarily just that?
No, but most modern art is.

quote:
And is that bad in itself?
Yes.

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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Self pleasuring artists.

Isn't most art primarily just that?
No, I don't think so. There are artists for whom this is a primary motivation. But there are artists who are driven to create. It isn't necessary about pleasure.

quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:

And is that bad in itself?

In and of itself? Depends. If one's philosophy/religion is about not being absorbed in oneself, then this could be considered harmful.
quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:

You have to be motivated by something.

Yes. And artists are as varied in their motivations as normal people.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I think I will propose a course of prophetic wanking.

Thanks. Thanks a lot. Now trying to avoid thinking about the parable of the sower and the seed falling on various types of ground...
This mental image is not helped or in any way enhanced by your avatar being Snoopy. Gaah. It's been 'activated' and 'released' by the power of your talent with words. Bastard.

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

Posts: 3711 | From: all at sea. | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by The Rhythm Methodist:
Releasing things, like prophecy, "words"(or in this case redemption) is a charismatic affectation which is designed to lend importance to what they say and , of course, to themselves. Taking this particular usage, "releasing redemption" means.....nothing.

Linguistically speaking, that sure is how it comes across.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
The Rhythm Methodist
Shipmate
# 17064

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Another practice of these deluded and grandiose people - which also registers a 9.8 on my bullshitometer - is "releasing the anointing". Frankly, I wouldn't want any anointing they were in a position to "release"!
Posts: 202 | From: Wales | Registered: Apr 2012  |  IP: Logged
The5thMary
Shipmate
# 12953

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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Poppies? They would look fine in my kitchen, but jeez, "God's redemption of France"? [Roll Eyes]

Poppies, hunh? Well, you know what they make from poppies! Methinks she's getting high from paint fumes and maybe some other less savory things! [Big Grin]

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God gave me my face but She let me pick my nose.

Posts: 3451 | From: Tacoma, WA USA | Registered: Aug 2007  |  IP: Logged
Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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Quite apart from anything else, poppies shows an amazing lack of imagination - something which i had always assumed was a prerequisite for any kind of artist.

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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This thread needs cheering up. Bad painting of Barack Obama.

George w. Bush tried to paint Stephen Harper (Cdn PM).

And this one a photographer dressed up in all sorts of things is the happiest one.

[ 26. June 2014, 02:28: Message edited by: no prophet ]

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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quote:
Originally posted by The5thMary:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Poppies? They would look fine in my kitchen, but jeez, "God's redemption of France"? [Roll Eyes]

Poppies, hunh? Well, you know what they make from poppies! Methinks she's getting high from paint fumes and maybe some other less savory things! [Big Grin]
Wrong sort of poppies. These are the sort that are used in remembrance of the dead of WWI, so maybe there was a trace of thought about that - at least that's what I assumed.
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