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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: O Great Teacher
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
Gather round, children, and allow me to impart my wisdom to you so that you may learn many things.
Oh, I won't tell you those things. No, not at all. I'll simply ask insightful questions so that you may learn from your answers. And please, be precise!
No, I'm sorry. That answer wasn't good enough. Try harder, young one! Then, once you've answered properly, I will educate you!
No, I already explained this. I'm not going to tell you what I think the easy way. You need to learn properly. What, you don't want to play? Your loss. I guess you're only interested in making excuses. How sad.
...dude. CUT OUT the patronising crap. We are not infants.
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
I completely understand your frustration with Herr God Junior, but I fear this thread won't prove terribly productive.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Lyda*Rose
Ship's broken porthole
# 4544
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Posted
Herr Dozent! Herr Dozent! (Mr. Professor!) I have a little question about God's unchanging revelation and the Filioque: how did God let the First Council of Nicea (325) or even the First Council of Constantinople (381) get it soooo wrong? And why didn't the contemporary Vicars of Christ not catch it in their infallible nets and make sure the Filioque was firmly in the Creed from the start instead of letting the Church be left wandering in the somewhat-defectively-conceived Trinitarian wilderness for several centuries?
It makes it look like either God can change his mind or that the Roman Catholic Church can get a major statement of faith Wrong (for a while).
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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano
Posts: 21377 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003
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Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I completely understand your frustration with Herr God Junior, but I fear this thread won't prove terribly productive.
What the fucking hell has his nationality got to do with it?
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این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Oh. Him.
I got out while I could.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
While I can (and do) call people for junior hosting I can't call anyone for junior Godding. I'll have to leave that to God.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
I didn't even need to click on the links to know who the callee was! ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Ingo has been communicating in densely written and argued paragraphs since he got here, I doubt he's going to change now, but venting is always cathartic. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Tubbs
[ 22. July 2014, 11:27: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
CUT OUT the patronising crap. We are not infants.
Usually I'm called patronising for telling people how things are. Now I'm being called patronising for asking people questions to lead them to agreeing with me on how things are.
It would be quite simple to avoid all of this, of course. I would simply have to leave people to "their truth", and reduce my contributions to polite and gentle statements that I beg to differ.
Well, fuck that.
...
What is quite unique about this particular case however is the evasiveness of ChastMastr. He just would not explain what he means when saying that he has a relationship with Christ. Perhaps that is just pious verbiage he has learned to mouth in response to certain stimuli. Or perhaps he correctly intuited that if he said anything concrete at all, I could immediately use that as a pivot point to lever Church and doctrine into his individual spirituality.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting that I could make him run scared from the discussion merely by asking him directly to explain his own terms. I should do that more often, really.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Oh. Him.
I got out while I could.
Yep. It's a variant on Godwin's law, specific to the Ship. When Ingo spunks all over a thread, that thread is no longer worth reading or trying to engage with. It's just a great sticky mess of ego.
[Edit: Cross-post - talking of whom...]
[ 22. July 2014, 11:54: Message edited by: TheAlethiophile ]
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I completely understand your frustration with Herr God Junior, but I fear this thread won't prove terribly productive.
What the fucking hell has his nationality got to do with it?
Seconded.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Oh. Him.
I got out while I could.
Yep. It's a variant on Godwin's law, specific to the Ship. When Ingo spunks all over a thread, that thread is no longer worth reading or trying to engage with. It's just a great sticky mess of ego.
[Edit: Cross-post - talking of whom...]
Bollocks. IngoB's preferred posting style is not mine but if he turns up on a thread there is a good chance that I will learn something new about Catholic teaching and its underlying reasoning, and possibly be forced to come up with a less flabby justification for my own position.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
Can someone post the schedule for the obligatory IngoB hell calls?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Jon in the Nati
Shipmate
# 15849
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Posted
He's just so mean when he makes people justify their vague, mealy-mouthed spiritual platitudes. He made me cry when he said I wasn't being precise enough. He's German, so he's not nearly cuddly enough for me.
Or something.
For the first time in history, I agree with Caissa. You could set your bloody watch by these things.
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Homer: Aww, this isn't about Jesus, is it?
Lovejoy: All things are about Jesus, Homer. Except this.
Posts: 773 | From: Region formerly known as the Biretta Belt | Registered: Aug 2010
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Bollocks. IngoB's preferred posting style is not mine but if he turns up on a thread there is a good chance that I will learn something new about Catholic teaching and its underlying reasoning, and possibly be forced to come up with a less flabby justification for my own position.
Doubtful. Ingob's god lacks most of God's attributes, mainly love and compassion. Ingob is God's mini-me, one that he has constructed in his own alexithymic image.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
I learn plenty from IngoB - mostly about avoiding the RCC.
He knows his subject very well indeed, but his teaching style is derogatory and belittling. This was a common style in the 1960s and 70s. Things have moved on since then.
I have a lot of the self-appointed-teacher in me ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) so I do understand some of his motivations. Shame he can't hold up a mirror occasionally 'tho.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
He knows his subject very well indeed, but his teaching style is derogatory and belittling. This was a common style in the 1960s and 70s. Things have moved on since then.
I was at school in the 1970's and remember the 'Staff v School' sports matches. Especially the rugby ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Anyway, I thought it was interesting that I could make him run scared from the discussion merely by asking him directly to explain his own terms. I should do that more often, really.
This is the thing.
You seem to want people to run scared.
You squash them, they go, you've "won".
You do it plenty of time with me. When swatted away like an annoying fly I don't see it as my problem 'tho - I see it as yours. You are unable to engage meaningfully with people who you don't understand. (People, not subjects - you understand your material very well - it's those who you are trying to engage with that you don't seem to get at all) So they disengage, you think you've "won".
You haven't - you've just put another person off.
(My problem is I'm a persistent wee fly and genuinely interested in Ship discussions ![[Smile]](smile.gif) )
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
Can someone post the schedule for the obligatory IngoB hell calls?
I'm afraid that's classified information, Sir. It's given out to Hosts so that we can take prophylatics as the next one approaches.
PS No prophet wins major points for teaching me the word alexithymic. I need to find ways to use that in conversation.
[ 22. July 2014, 13:30: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
He knows his subject very well indeed, but his teaching style is derogatory and belittling.
Just because you are learning doesn't mean that I'm teaching.
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
You squash them, they go, you've "won". You do it plenty of time with me. When swatted away like an annoying fly I don't see it as my problem 'tho - I see it as yours.
I get what I want, and you don't mind. All is good in the hood...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Usually I'm called patronising for telling people how things are.
No, usually you are called patronising because you are being patronising. The above sentence being a perfect example.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
You squash them, they go, you've "won". You do it plenty of time with me. When swatted away like an annoying fly I don't see it as my problem 'tho - I see it as yours.
I get what I want, and you don't mind. All is good in the hood...
You want people to leave the discussion?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
You squash them, they go, you've "won". You do it plenty of time with me. When swatted away like an annoying fly I don't see it as my problem 'tho - I see it as yours.
I get what I want, and you don't mind. All is good in the hood...
You want people to leave the discussion?
My feeling is that he isn't much bothered either way. His duty (and often his joy) is to lay forth the views of the RCC - and the rest of us can do with that what we will. Whether those view are nice or attractive is neither here not there, what matters is that they're true.
Posts: 801 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women....
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Just because you are learning doesn't mean that I'm teaching.
Just because you're an asshole doesn't mean we're shit.
It just means you're an asshole.
(You walked into that too obvious one Alex.)
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Beeswax Altar
Shipmate
# 11644
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women....
Conan the Catholic
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Losing sleep is something you want to avoid, if possible.
-Og: King of Bashan
Posts: 8411 | From: By a large lake | Registered: Jul 2006
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
He knows his subject very well indeed, but his teaching style is derogatory and belittling.
The teaching style is not the problem. The problem is using a discussion forum as a teaching forum. It isn't about teaching.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pyx_e:
No, usually you are called patronising because you are being patronising.
Offer your discursive crosses up to Jesus?
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
You want people to leave the discussion?
If certain people would leave the discussion it would indeed improve the signal to noise ratio... But no, in general I am good with everybody having a go. That keeps things lively.
I was rather pointing out that if - as you claimed - I get what I want and you think that's my problem, then there is no reason for you to whine. But whine you do. So...
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women....
Hey, hey now. I'm thoroughly modern in this regard: To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their male or female or third-gendered emotional and/or sexual partners...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
In the last hell-call the metaphor was a boxing ring, now it's a school-room. Call me naive but that feels like progress.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jon in the Nati:
He's just so mean when he makes people justify their vague, mealy-mouthed spiritual platitudes. He made me cry when he said I wasn't being precise enough. He's German, so he's not nearly cuddly enough for me.
Or something.
For the first time in history, I agree with Caissa. You could set your bloody watch by these things.
There are a number of regular posters who will challenge ideas. Most of them do not generate Hell calls, especially not at the same rate.
But be of good cheer, IngoB does not seem to mind being called here.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
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Posted
A foretaste?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
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Ariston
Insane Unicorn
# 10894
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Posted
Calling Ingo to Hell is like mud wrestling with a pig.
After a few rounds of rolling in shit, you realize the pig's enjoying it.
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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.
Posts: 6849 | From: The People's Republic of Balcones | Registered: Jan 2006
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
What is quite unique about this particular case however is the evasiveness of ChastMastr. He just would not explain what he means when saying that he has a relationship with Christ. Perhaps that is just pious verbiage he has learned to mouth in response to certain stimuli. Or perhaps he correctly intuited that if he said anything concrete at all, I could immediately use that as a pivot point to lever Church and doctrine into his individual spirituality.
Anyway, I thought it was interesting that I could make him run scared from the discussion merely by asking him directly to explain his own terms. I should do that more often, really.
My dear, my very dear IngoB, my poppet, my pigsnie,
How mistakenly you write.
Shipmates who have known me here know that I can write just as long, repetitive and tedious responses as you; just as many long quotes (including but not limited to the Summa); and with the same limpet-like clinging to a topic and a position that makes a dog with a bone look positively disinterested.
I've in fact done this not only with theology but with comic books. You should have seen me a couple of years ago writing about the myriad sins of Tony Stark in Marvel Comics' Civil War miniseries.
The notions you appear to have about my faith, my approach to church/doctrine and the like, are so far removed from reality as to be literally laughable.
The notion that I have "run scared" from the discussion is so laughable as to be hysterics-inducing.
You poor thing. For someone who insists on everyone else reading his posts perfectly, and that any misunderstanding of them falls only on them and never on you, you just don't have very good reading comprehension, do you?
What I said was this:
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
I'm sorry, IngoB, but I'm not going to play with you. And after discovering and reading this thread, I'm afraid that seems to be precisely what you're seeking. I'm not. Sorry! I've made my statements and stand by what I've said. And, again, in all sincerity, if you actually intended any of this out of personal concern for my salvation, I appreciate the intent, but I don't think the approach works very well. Good luck, take care, and I mean this truly, God bless you. Perhaps we'll interact more pleasantly and usefully on some other thread.
I got in trouble (and apologized to Louise) for linking to your last Hell call, but I meant what I said.
I'm not going to play with you. I think you are playing a very unhealthy little game. You spell out your intent very well on that thread, and I have no interest in playing games with someone with that attitude.
There are so many things I could add--but you've answered them all! All on that thread! Worry about you? Worry that you're driving people away from the Catholic end of the spectrum? All answered! You don't give a shit! It's a stupid game! It's a stupid, childish game! Meanwhile, from your own point of view, you're helping drive people further away from The Truth, and you don't give a flying fuck! All that matters to you is getting to practice boxing, with us as your punching bag!
And no matter what insults you use, I will not be baited to play your little game.
God forgive me for any time I have ever done this to anyone ever since I became a Christian! All of those long debates, all of those discussions until 4 or 5 am in college and later, I pray to God I never did this to people, and if so may He have mercy on my soul for it!
And that's it, really. I keep thinking of things I should say or point out, but -- you covered them in that thread. I hope that doesn't become the end of the issue. I hope that you will grow, change, develop. Talk with us as equals, not at us. Who knows, maybe you could even post on the prayer request thread once in a while. As Green Arrow said to the Guardians in that seminal first issue of the "Hard-Traveling Heroes" storyline, "Come off your perch. Touch, taste, laugh, and cry! Learn where we're at... and why!"
One final thing: I meant what I said. To repeat it again:
And, again, in all sincerity, if you actually intended any of this out of personal concern for my salvation, I appreciate the intent, but I don't think the approach works very well. Good luck, take care, and I mean this truly, God bless you. Perhaps we'll interact more pleasantly and usefully on some other thread.
'Nuff said.
David
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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opaWim
Shipmate
# 11137
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
My feeling is that he isn't much bothered either way. His duty (and often his joy) is to lay forth the views of the RCC - and the rest of us can do with that what we will. Whether those view are nice or attractive is neither here not there, what matters is that they're true.
The views laid forth by IngoB are not necessarily the (only) views of the RCC.
Most of the time the RCC is a lot less pedantic and monolithic in her laying forth of her views than IngoB.
He belongs to the worst kind -for the RCC that is- of neo-catholics. The sort that makes "ordinary" RC's look for another parish.
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It's the Thirties all over again, possibly even worse.
Posts: 524 | From: The Marshes | Registered: Mar 2006
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
I had lunch with a friend last Friday who happens to be a Catholic priest. I talked a bit with him about the discussion I'm having with Ingo. When I told him about this god Ingo has constructed for himself, his reaction can best be summarized with the letters WTF?! Ingo's god looks nothing like the Catholic God.
The reason why it's difficult to argue with IngoB is not because he's right, it's because he has epistemic closure in his beliefs. They are internally extremely consistent. The problem is that they're bollocks of course, but this internal consistency makes it very difficult to show that.
I suppose that this is where the kick lies for Ingo. I don't even think it's about the Catholic faith. The attraction is to take some of their propositions which are obviously immoral and think "what if I'm able to defend them?" He dictates the terms of the discussion, people will storm his castle, and he can smile condescendingly upon them while it still holds. That's undoubtedly a psychological boost.
I don't have the illusion that I'll be able to tear down his castle; I'll probably give up in a post or two.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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Jemima the 9th
Shipmate
# 15106
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
quote:
Originally posted by Jemima the 9th:
My feeling is that he isn't much bothered either way. His duty (and often his joy) is to lay forth the views of the RCC - and the rest of us can do with that what we will. Whether those view are nice or attractive is neither here not there, what matters is that they're true.
The views laid forth by IngoB are not necessarily the (only) views of the RCC.
Most of the time the RCC is a lot less pedantic and monolithic in her laying forth of her views than IngoB.
He belongs to the worst kind -for the RCC that is- of neo-catholics. The sort that makes "ordinary" RC's look for another parish.
Good point. My apologies, there should have been an "as he understands them" in there somewhere.
Meanwhile, were it not exporting snark to other boards, "Adversely affecting the signal to noise ratio" would make me a great signature.
Posts: 801 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2009
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
Ingo is an RC
Trouble is he B arsy
We can't make him to see,
Aboard, that his apologies
Shift no shippies theses
Just pulls all their biases.
Word, yo ![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Oh fuck, Think, that was a crime against rhyme. And meter, and scansion.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariston:
Calling Ingo to Hell is like mud wrestling with a pig.
After a few rounds of rolling in shit, you realize the pig's enjoying it.
And the pig smells little worse than when the rolling started. You on the other hand .....
eta: Doublethink, That was very difficult to read. Beyond the blank.
[ 22. July 2014, 21:08: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Oh fuck, Think, that was a crime against rhyme. And meter, and scansion.
Well, it is hell ![[Axe murder]](graemlins/lovedrops.gif)
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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell
Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
Oh fuck, Think, that was a crime against rhyme. And meter, and scansion.
Oh my God (re the Zach82 poem thing I posted which may be "Patient Zero" for doggerel poetry on the Ship) WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?!? ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
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Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Shipmates who have known me here know that I can write just as long, repetitive and tedious responses as you; just as many long quotes (including but not limited to the Summa); and with the same limpet-like clinging to a topic and a position that makes a dog with a bone look positively disinterested.
You don't need to go to great lengths to convince me that you are terribly boring, I will take your word on that. As for me, I rarely find that my posts interest nobody and I regularly find that the response is rather overwhelming. It helps, of course, that my opinions are controversial in these parts. But I'm not picky.
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
The notions you appear to have about my faith, my approach to church/doctrine and the like, are so far removed from reality as to be literally laughable.
I have no notions about that. I was trying to gather some information about it, true, but the very instance I called you to account for the hope that is in you (1 Pet 3:15), you clammed up.
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
The notion that I have "run scared" from the discussion is so laughable as to be hysterics-inducing.
That explains this post. Take a paper / plastic bag and breathe into that about ten times. Then take some regular breaths. Repeat until you have calmed down. Then resume posting.
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
I'm not going to play with you.
Ahhwww. I will tell my mommy... Naw, really, it's OK. Bye. Have a good life.
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
Meanwhile, from your own point of view, you're helping drive people further away from The Truth, and you don't give a flying fuck!
I've always wondered about flying fucks. That seems so ... artistic. Anyway, I'm sure the assembled denizens of Heresy Central are largely impervious to RC cajoling of any kind. I hence won't add to the chorus of sucking noises that follows anybody these days who seems amenable to darken a church door. From me you will get a straight RC blast from the past, with some modern bells and whistles. And if you don't like that, then you can always run and hide. Well, you already did that...
quote:
Originally posted by ChastMastr:
As Green Arrow said to the Guardians in that seminal first issue of the "Hard-Traveling Heroes" storyline, "Come off your perch. Touch, taste, laugh, and cry! Learn where we're at... and why!"
OK, I give up. This just screams for a joke using the double meaning of "seminal", but I can't make it both snappy and understandable.
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I had lunch with a friend last Friday who happens to be a Catholic priest. I talked a bit with him about the discussion I'm having with Ingo. When I told him about this god Ingo has constructed for himself, his reaction can best be summarized with the letters WTF?! Ingo's god looks nothing like the Catholic God.
I'm sorry, but I neither trust your ability to present my ideas accurately and fairly, nor do I trust your ability to make theologically astute and orthodox RC friends.
Anyway, I have never claimed to speak for the RCC. It is other people who sometimes seem to think that I am the pope's spokesperson, I know very well that I'm not RC mainstream. What I do try consciously however is to say nothing that is in clear contradiction to official RC teaching. I believe that I usually succeed.
The comments I've made about God in the DH thread are loosely based on comments by Brian Davies, O.P., and specifically his book The Reality of God and the Problem of Evil. If you want to actually inform your priest friend about this kind of view, rather than be affirmed by him in your prejudices, then give him that book to read.
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
I suppose that this is where the kick lies for Ingo. I don't even think it's about the Catholic faith. The attraction is to take some of their propositions which are obviously immoral and think "what if I'm able to defend them?" He dictates the terms of the discussion, people will storm his castle, and he can smile condescendingly upon them while it still holds. That's undoubtedly a psychological boost.
Sort of. But I actually do have a fairly Catholic faith. Hence while I consider the exchanges here mostly as light entertainment, it's not like I have chosen my position just for fun and giggles. Furthermore, you are confusing "moral" with "normal". The Catholic position is obviously not normal anymore, in many places.
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
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Posted
quote:
IngoB: nor do I trust your ability to make theologically astute and orthodox RC friends.
I didn't expect it myself either.
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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
IngoB: nor do I trust your ability to make theologically astute and orthodox RC friends.
I didn't expect it myself either.
I find the idea of vetting one's potential friends to check the orthodoxy of their religious beliefs faintly hilarious.
I also expect it's precisely what Ingo does.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Did somebody post something?
You are the first.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LeRoc:
quote:
IngoB: nor do I trust your ability to make theologically astute and orthodox RC friends.
I didn't expect it myself either.
Better check that you count people like prostitutes, tax-collectors, and sinners among your friends. Who are you dining with?
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Now I'm being called patronising for asking people questions to lead them
There's your problem and that's what's patronising, regardless of what follows this fragment. It is arrogant beyond words to think that it is your job to lead anyone anywhere.
[ 23. July 2014, 03:24: Message edited by: mousethief ]
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There's your problem and that's what's patronising, regardless of what follows this fragment. It is arrogant beyond words to think that it is your job to lead anyone anywhere.
Thanks for repeating my point, really. The OP is wrong to focus on the style of delivery, it is my underlying assumption that I have something significant to say, and that reader should seriously consider it, which is the "problem". Well, it will remain the problem. I'm indeed "arrogant" enough for this to be the case in most of my posts. However, I don't worry about youse finding words for that. That never seems to be a problem around here...
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They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
The OP is wrong to focus on the style of delivery, it is my underlying assumption that I have something significant to say, and that reader should seriously consider it, which is the "problem".
Yes, I agree.
But another problem here is truth. You are claiming that all the doctrines you espouse are, above all, true.
But you then use them in a game of word sparring. You confess that you love to beat your opponents in a discussion and that you are here to enjoy that.
But, surely, if we are discussing something as life-changing and important as God, truth and justice then this way of engaging is not being true to yourself, God, truth or justice.
Don't get me wrong, there is nothing whatever wrong with having fun and laughing at ourselves. But, somewhere along the way, you have crossed a line. Which means you are playing, in an extremely uncaring way, with the very truths which you claim to hold dear.
So I conclude that you don't (hold them dear) and it really is simply an enjoyable, challenging game to you.
If that's the case, fine - enjoy it, but don't even begin to pretend you stand for Christ, Christian values or the RCC in any way.
(And before anyone says it - ITTWACW - I know, I know! ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) )
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There's your problem and that's what's patronising, regardless of what follows this fragment. It is arrogant beyond words to think that it is your job to lead anyone anywhere.
Thanks for repeating my point, really. The OP is wrong to focus on the style of delivery, it is my underlying assumption that I have something significant to say, and that reader should seriously consider it, which is the "problem". Well, it will remain the problem. I'm indeed "arrogant" enough for this to be the case in most of my posts. However, I don't worry about youse finding words for that. That never seems to be a problem around here...
Erm, no, the problem they're describing is that you DON'T have something to say. You're making other people do the work.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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