|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: O Great Teacher
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
Probably the single most important essence of Christianity’s great historical power and continuing worth is compassion. Jesus Christ Himself made a particular thing about it. If there were anything I could add to the orgy of criticism of IngoB, it would be a heartfelt and constructive criticism of his tendency to dispose of compassion in the style of his posting, as I see it as a barrier for many.
Not me though. I feel very lucky indeed that he contributes to this website in whatever manner.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I completely understand your frustration with Herr God Junior, but I fear this thread won't prove terribly productive.
What the fucking hell has his nationality got to do with it?
I repeat this question to mousethief, as he appears to have overlooked it.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
I completely understand your frustration with Herr God Junior, but I fear this thread won't prove terribly productive.
What the fucking hell has his nationality got to do with it?
I repeat this question to mousethief, as he appears to have overlooked it.
Well, I didn't overlook it. I just wondered how you jumped the chasm between acknowledging a person's nationality and making it the primary issue. That's a mighty fine projector you're wielding there.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
Acknowledging a person's nationality. Are you kidding me?
The snide little shit, mousethief, wasn’t randomly ‘acknowledging IngoB’s nationality’ in his post, it was a clearly derogatory attack on the nature of his character on grounds of his being German.
That's not 'acknowledging a person's nationality', it's racism.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
But you then use them in a game of word sparring. You confess that you love to beat your opponents in a discussion and that you are here to enjoy that. But, surely, if we are discussing something as life-changing and important as God, truth and justice then this way of engaging is not being true to yourself, God, truth or justice.
I disagree. I think discussions of truth are held back by imposing on them concerns with the individual. There is a difference between preaching / pastoral care and discussion. I'm here for the latter, not the former. The title of the OP has it exactly wrong, because I am seriously not attempting to teach here. Really, really not. I'm actually a pretty good teacher, and I usually get very good student reviews. But I do not care whether everybody gets everything I say here. I'm engaging essentially in an academic debate, where what you feel about something or whether you accept it into your life doesn't matter. Neither does it matter whether you can keep up intellectually, other than in the sense that you might talk nonsense or drop out of the discussion if you can't. I'm not trying to convert you, except perhaps accidentally because you have decided to be converted by the truth whatever it may be (and however it may be presented to you). I'm slamming ideas into each other to see what holds up.
Was SoF made for this? Probably not. Is it compatible with what SoF states as "terms of use". I honestly think so. Am I particular concerned if you don't like how I am using SoF? Nope, I couldn't care less. Is my behaviour "Christian"? Not really. Is my behaviour "unChristian"? Not really either, in my opinion at least.
Of course plenty could be said about me enjoying this too much, etc. It probably is an unhealthy hobby, and I sure could spend my time "better", according to a wide range of different definitions of "better". But as vices go, I think this one is fairly harmless.
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
If that's the case, fine - enjoy it, but don't even begin to pretend you stand for Christ, Christian values or the RCC in any way.
Shrug. I generally avoid making claims about myself, at least as far as Christianity goes. That said, I really don't care what you think that I must or must not do.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Erm, no, the problem they're describing is that you DON'T have something to say. You're making other people do the work.
As a general comment on my posting, that is just plain insane. If this refers specifically to my recent attempt at Socratic questioning, then I have pretty much spilled my beans on where I was going with that on this thread. And yes, the idea of Socratic questioning is to make other people do some of the intellectual work. But not because the questioner has not done that work himself.
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
If there were anything I could add to the orgy of criticism of IngoB, it would be a heartfelt and constructive criticism of his tendency to dispose of compassion in the style of his posting, as I see it as a barrier for many.
There is an implicit assumption here that one must focus on compassion for the emotional or bodily state of people. I think compassion for their intellectual state is sorely missing among Christians. In a specific way (not Sunday school, but adult debating club) I am contributing to that.
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
|
Posted
So it seems Bingo thinks that SoF is a MMO game to be won. He has skilled up Lvl 5! Got the shiney bonuses, is in the best corp, in the best alliance and there is nothing you can do because you are all noobs. HE WILL CRUSH YOU.
His internet empires ever expands, all are doomed. You are wrong and even if you were right you could never be as right as Bingo because he is the BOSS of the game. Even G-D walks softly in case Bingo unleashes his minions against him.
Meanwhile back in the real world I'm going up the shop to buy a cake. Sigh.
--------------------
It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
|
Posted
Yorick, in a very recent thread of this same type it was IngoB himself who brought up the nationality thing (no time to find it before work, sorry). Someone asked IIRC why IngoB had no sense of humor (or similar) to which he replied simply "German". I thought it was rather good, myself.
Anyway, that's where it comes from. Not simply some random attack.
--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Acknowledging a person's nationality. Are you kidding me?
The snide little shit, mousethief, wasn’t randomly ‘acknowledging IngoB’s nationality’ in his post, it was a clearly derogatory attack on the nature of his character on grounds of his being German.
That's not 'acknowledging a person's nationality', it's racism.
Actually it's not racism, because German is a nationality, not a race.
With love from your hellhost and legal pedant, who is well aware that at least some of his behaviour is attributable to his national origin. Honestly, you should see what happens when a bunch of Australians take over a Tori Amos chatroom, it's freaking hilarious.
EDIT: Well it was to us, anyway. The occasional stray American might have found it a bit scary.
[ 23. July 2014, 11:43: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Actually it's not racism, because German is a nationality, not a race.
Oh, really. Well please would you give me an example of a race about which racism makes its isms. Or are you defining it out of existence?
Actually, don't bother. The intention in mousethief's comment was perfectly clear to me, and if you don't see it, fine. I don't want to get into a pointless discussion about the technical legal definitions of such cuntishness, thanks.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Of course plenty could be said about me enjoying this too much, etc. It probably is an unhealthy hobby, and I sure could spend my time "better", according to a wide range of different definitions of "better". But as vices go, I think this one is fairly harmless.
Yes, pretty harmless.
Though I think you compartmentalise too much. Care for others is not a completely separate thing from discussion.
Also - the way you discuss simply confuses people, because you have made up your own set of rules. These stay within the guidelines, yes, but they are not useful for good, constructive discussion.
Intellectually we all have different skills, not better or worse, just different - so it's not a matter of 'keeping up'. And, like many have said, none of us are here to teach either.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
|
Posted
HAHAHA orfeo joins the side of the hairsplitters on a question about discrimination and prejudice.
(Yes, I am being petty. No, I don't care.)
--------------------
Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Actually it's not racism, because German is a nationality, not a race.
Oh, really. Well please would you give me an example of a race about which racism makes its isms. Or are you defining it out of existence?
Blacks. Whites. Asians.
Lordy, it isn't difficult. When a white Englishman makes a dig at black Englishmen, that's racism.
[ 23. July 2014, 12:35: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
HAHAHA orfeo joins the side of the hairsplitters on a question about discrimination and prejudice.
(Yes, I am being petty. No, I don't care.)
Maybe because I've a law degree and I've read quite a lot of cases where courts have made the point that discrimination on the basis of race and discrimination on the basis of national origin are two different things, and that in some situations discrimination on the basis of national origin is perfectly legal.
Or, you know, I could just be a hairsplitter because it's that kind of pedantry that makes my juices flow. Or because I think Yorick chose a molehill to direct his mountain of outrage towards. Whatever.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Acknowledging a person's nationality. Are you kidding me?
The snide little shit, mousethief, wasn’t randomly ‘acknowledging IngoB’s nationality’ in his post, it was a clearly derogatory attack on the nature of his character on grounds of his being German.
That's not 'acknowledging a person's nationality', it's racism.
Your stunningly ignorant failure to appreciate your own conduct here boggles.
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
It's not that hard
You sad fucktard
Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
These stay within the guidelines, yes, but they are not useful for good, constructive discussion.
That's your opinion. Do you want to argue it?
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Actually it's not racism, because German is a nationality, not a race.
Oh, really. Well please would you give me an example of a race about which racism makes its isms. Or are you defining it out of existence?
Blacks. Whites. Asians.
Lordy, it isn't difficult. When a white Englishman makes a dig at black Englishmen, that's racism.
You're pretending to be obtuse, which is an ugly look on you. There is in fact only one race- human beings. Blacks and whites and asians are the same. The distinctions are not real but political, and often discriminatory. That is what racism is, orfeo- it's discrimination and prejudice based on perceived difference, and what mousethief did was to discriminate, very deliberately, the perceived difference between 'us' (Messers) and him (Herr) on the grounds that he's from Germany. Well, I don't wish to be in 'us', thanks.
But fuck this. I'll get rid of this unpleasant taste in my mouth elsewhere.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Acknowledging a person's nationality. Are you kidding me?
The snide little shit, mousethief, wasn’t randomly ‘acknowledging IngoB’s nationality’ in his post, it was a clearly derogatory attack on the nature of his character on grounds of his being German.
That's not 'acknowledging a person's nationality', it's racism.
Your stunningly ignorant failure to appreciate your own conduct here boggles.
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
It's not that hard
You sad fucktard
Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?
You, sir, are equally hilarious and pathetic. Congratulations.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
Also, can we let the German thing slide, please? mousethief after all didn't even get the title right, it would be Herr Professor Doctor rerum naturalium Diplom-Physiker Gott junior. But one wouldn't expect an American to appreciate such sophisticated matters of culture. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
Plus I was using it in the dative, so it would have been Herrn.
Yorickwanderer, you're always looking for some stick, any stick, to hit me with. Go get a life or something, you sad, empty ballsack.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
LeRoc
Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216
|
Posted
I think there are some mediational techniques that require you to undertake a task you know you won't succeed in. Arguing with IngoB can be like that, it has a strange soothing effect on me sometimes.
--------------------
I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)
Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Actually it's not racism, because German is a nationality, not a race.
Oh, really. Well please would you give me an example of a race about which racism makes its isms. Or are you defining it out of existence?
Blacks. Whites. Asians.
Lordy, it isn't difficult. When a white Englishman makes a dig at black Englishmen, that's racism.
You're pretending to be obtuse, which is an ugly look on you. There is in fact only one race- human beings. Blacks and whites and asians are the same. The distinctions are not real but political, and often discriminatory.
Wow. Okay. So... you ask me to come up with races to which 'racism' applies, and suggest that I might be trying to define them out of existence... and then tell me there aren't in fact any races?
Fuck. Off. Because you just pulled the most nefarious bait and switch I've seen in a long time. Don't you try and take the moral high ground with ME. Not when you're being a manipulative little shit.
[ 23. July 2014, 13:56: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
opaWim
Shipmate
# 11137
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Actually it's not racism, because German is a nationality, not a race.
There are two sides to that.
Do non-Germans consider them a race?
Hopefully -as far as I'm concerned- not.
Do Germans consider themselves a race?
Since 1945 -at least officially- not.
But during at least some decades before that a majority considered themselves very much a race. A uniquely superior race even, regrettably in desperate need of cleansing, but a race nevertheless.
At the least we should take into account how the Germans themselves feel about being a nationality and/or a race. It's better to have things like that in the open.
--------------------
It's the Thirties all over again, possibly even worse.
Posts: 524 | From: The Marshes | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
But during at least some decades before that a majority considered themselves very much a race. A uniquely superior race even, regrettably in desperate need of cleansing, but a race nevertheless.
The race was called Aryan, you moron. They talked about the superiority of the Aryan race, not the superiority of the German race.
[ 23. July 2014, 13:59: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
These stay within the guidelines, yes, but they are not useful for good, constructive discussion.
That's your opinion. Do you want to argue it?
Do I need to?
The number of Hell threads your manner of discussion provokes speaks for itself imo.
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
opaWim
Shipmate
# 11137
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
The race was called Aryan, you moron.
I know, it's the cross I have to bear.
quote:
They talked about the superiority of the Aryan race, not the superiority of the German race.
Indeed. And "they" consisted almost exclusively of the proper Germans and the (very willing to be annexed) Austrians.
[ 23. July 2014, 14:11: Message edited by: opaWim ]
--------------------
It's the Thirties all over again, possibly even worse.
Posts: 524 | From: The Marshes | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
quote:
They talked about the superiority of the Aryan race, not the superiority of the German race.
Yep. And "they" consisted largely of the Germans and the (very willing to be annexed) Austrians.
What a pity that last point has zero relevance to the argument you claimed to be making, as opposed to the one you're pretending to make now.
The Aryan race that the Nazis were so praiseworthy of did not merely consist of Germans. A tall blonde blue-eyed Swede would make a racist Nazi positively weak at the knees.
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Attributing a behaviour to someone based on the culture they were born and raised in is not racism. It is prejudice and can be nasty as well. And though usage of such does not show the best in a person, experience here shows mousethief to not truly be that kind of dick.
Sorry to rain on your fauxtrage, Yorick.
ETA: wow, hell of a x-post. orfeo has the right. Any of the Germanic, Scandewegian or suchlike would be fine with the Nazis.
[ 23. July 2014, 14:21: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
opaWim
Shipmate
# 11137
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What a pity that last point has zero relevance to the argument you claimed to be making, as opposed to the one you're pretending to make now.
If you say so.
I'm undoubtedly too moronic too see through my own claims and pretensions.
quote:
The Aryan race that the Nazis were so praiseworthy of did not merely consist of Germans. A tall blonde blue-eyed Swede would make a racist Nazi positively weak at the knees.
Undoubtedly.
But my country wasn't invaded, plundered and largely cleansed of Jews, homosexuals, gipsies, uncooperative Christians, communists, and so forth, by the Aryan race. It was done by the self-perceived master-race that was in control of Germany and Austria.
And of course there were blonde blue-eyed Scandinavians, British, Irish, Americans, and indeed Dutch, who couldn't wait to join the Germans, but that doesn't change the fact that the Aryan race was almost exclusively a German affair.
--------------------
It's the Thirties all over again, possibly even worse.
Posts: 524 | From: The Marshes | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
The number of Hell threads your manner of discussion provokes speaks for itself imo.
Shrug. Wo gehobelt wird, da fallen Späne. (Where the plane is used, wood shavings will fall.)
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Yorick
Infinite Jester
# 12169
|
Posted
I apologise sincerely to orfeo for the attack on his integrity in my comments above. It was inadvertent, and he remains a Shipmate I very much like and admire, and whose integrity is beyond reproach by me.
--------------------
این نیز بگذرد
Posts: 7574 | From: Natural Sources | Registered: Dec 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
The OP is wrong to focus on the style of delivery, it is my underlying assumption that I have something significant to say, and that reader should seriously consider it, which is the "problem".
You're the RCC clone of EtymologicalEvangelical. You are both incapable of accepting that when others criticize you, the reasons they give for their ire are, in fact, the reasons for their ire. You must deny them their feelings and substitute the reason you WANT to be criticized, the reason that makes you feel smugly superior.
For EE, this is "They hate me because I'm a conservative Evangelical." For you, this is, "They hate me because they can't compete with me logically" with a side-helping of "They hate me because I have a consistent, well-supported belief system and they do not" (as here).
No matter how many times you are called to Hell, no matter how many times you are told the problem is your arrogance, you arrogantly dismiss this and arrogantly insist that the real reason you're being called to Hell is something else. Thus proving your arrogance* and giving credence to the complaints.
___
*and, probably, total lack of self-awareness
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
What a pity that last point has zero relevance to the argument you claimed to be making, as opposed to the one you're pretending to make now.
If you say so.
I'm undoubtedly too moronic too see through my own claims and pretensions.
quote:
The Aryan race that the Nazis were so praiseworthy of did not merely consist of Germans. A tall blonde blue-eyed Swede would make a racist Nazi positively weak at the knees.
Undoubtedly.
But my country wasn't invaded, plundered and largely cleansed of Jews, homosexuals, gipsies, uncooperative Christians, communists, and so forth, by the Aryan race. It was done by the self-perceived master-race that was in control of Germany and Austria.
And of course there were blonde blue-eyed Scandinavians, British, Irish, Americans, and indeed Dutch, who couldn't wait to join the Germans, but that doesn't change the fact that the Aryan race was almost exclusively a German affair.
How about you go do some homework? There's a basic difference between membership of the group of people who praise the Aryan race and the group of people they perceive to BE the Aryan race. One is a subset of the other.
The fallacy you're falling into, repeatedly, is to equate the two.
For starters, a bit of homework might teach you about Mussolini. Who, y'know, did a bit of fighting in World War II without being German.
[ 23. July 2014, 15:09: Message edited by: orfeo ]
--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
Acknowledging a person's nationality. Are you kidding me?
The snide little shit, mousethief, wasn’t randomly ‘acknowledging IngoB’s nationality’ in his post, it was a clearly derogatory attack on the nature of his character on grounds of his being German.
That's not 'acknowledging a person's nationality', it's racism.
Your stunningly ignorant failure to appreciate your own conduct here boggles.
quote:
Originally posted by Yorick:
It's not that hard
You sad fucktard
Use every man after his desert, and who should 'scape whipping?
You, sir, are equally hilarious and pathetic. Congratulations.
You are a bigot
--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
FWIW, I find extensive discussions of Nazi Germany and its racial purity ideology to be more annoying than the harmless play on national prejudices of mousethief.
I grew up at the edge of the wave / punk scene, and I've fought (and run away from) violent right-wing groups for many years in my youth. I've lived most of my adult life outside of Germany as employment migrant, I'm married to a South-East Asian and have a child of "mixed race". My grandfather on my father's side was a common solider who nearly died in captivity in Russia, and my grandfather on my mother's side refused to take part in a Nazi "breeding programme" and was nearly sent to the concentration camp when as chief of police he ordered his men to protect Jewish shops against Nazi SA (what saved him was that he was a WWI war hero). I posted The Jew In You on Styx recently, because that really speaks to me.
I know I cannot demand anything having been called here. But can you please stop going on about Nazi crap now? It has nothing to do with me, and I don't like it floating around in a thread that's about me being offensive. However offensive I may be personally, it has absolutely nothing to do with Nazi morons, whether historical or contemporary. Racists will find me a bitter enemy, by word, fist or bullet.
Please get back to telling me that I'm an annoying prick, which has something real to do with me. Thanks for your consideration.
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
There's a basic difference between membership of the group of people who praise the Aryan race and the group of people they perceive to BE the Aryan race. One is a subset of the other.
Actually, I think neither is a subset of the other. There were plenty of people who the Nazis would have viewed as belonging to the master race who were utterly opposed to the Nazi racist ideology.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
No matter how many times you are called to Hell, no matter how many times you are told the problem is your arrogance, you arrogantly dismiss this and arrogantly insist that the real reason you're being called to Hell is something else.
So I'm arrogant but you are Einstein-insane? I can live with that.
I've looked at what I'm doing here. I'm fundamentally happy with it. I've looked at the rules of this place. I'm fundamentally compliant with them. You are unhappy with it all? Sucks to be you.
Anything else?
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
However offensive I may be personally, it has absolutely nothing to do with Nazi morons, whether historical or contemporary. Racists will find me a bitter enemy, by word, fist or bullet.
Please get back to telling me that I'm an annoying prick, which has something real to do with me. Thanks for your consideration.
A more than reasonable request. Nazis have nothing to do with IngoB and vice versa.
As for "Herr" I was going to use "Mr." but thought the former would be more humorous. I was wrong, and apologize. Except to Dogless Wanderer, for being a total prick about it.
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
No matter how many times you are called to Hell, no matter how many times you are told the problem is your arrogance, you arrogantly dismiss this and arrogantly insist that the real reason you're being called to Hell is something else.
So I'm arrogant but you are Einstein-insane? I can live with that.
I've looked at what I'm doing here. I'm fundamentally happy with it. I've looked at the rules of this place. I'm fundamentally compliant with them. You are unhappy with it all? Sucks to be you.
Anything else?
AAAAAAnd once again you spectacularly fail to engage the point being made.
(What the hell does "Einstein-insane" mean?)
[ 23. July 2014, 15:30: Message edited by: mousethief ]
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
(What the hell does "Einstein-insane" mean?)
I would have thought that this one is famous enough...
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - commonly attributed to Albert Einstein
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
|
Posted
You can't help it, can you? You use a random phrase to describe a well-known saying and when pointed out to you that it's not obvious what you are referring to, you act as though it's that we are all stupid and you are just so clever.
By the way - Einstein never actually said it:
9 Albert Einstein Quotes That Are Totally Fake
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by IngoB:
Anything else?
Yes. Address the point I made.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
|
Posted
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Please get back to telling me that I'm an annoying prick, which has something real to do with me. Thanks for your consideration.
Yeah, but that is like masturbating with sandpaper.
--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Please get back to telling me that I'm an annoying prick, which has something real to do with me. Thanks for your consideration.
Yeah, but that is like masturbating with sandpaper.
Ugh thanks for the visual. Erm, tactile.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
opaWim
Shipmate
# 11137
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
For starters, a bit of homework might teach you about Mussolini. Who, y'know, did a bit of fighting in World War II without being German.
If you were as moronic as I am, a bit of homework might teach you that having Mussolini's Italians as ally did not exactly help Germany. Their heart never seemed really into it. Probably because they realized they were being used and would, in the eyes of the blue-eyed blondes, never amount to more than second-rate Aryans.
I leave it at that because however satisfying it may be for you to call me a moron, this thread is not about me being moronic. It's about IngoB confusing his bullying philosophical masturbation with usefully exchanging opinions/knowledge/wisdom on things religious.
--------------------
It's the Thirties all over again, possibly even worse.
Posts: 524 | From: The Marshes | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Originally posted by IngoB:
quote:
Please get back to telling me that I'm an annoying prick, which has something real to do with me. Thanks for your consideration.
Yeah, but that is like masturbating with sandpaper.
It's also a bit like helping IngoB to masturbate. Well, it's a kindly act, I suppose.
--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
RuthW
liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by opaWim:
It's about IngoB confusing his bullying ...
God knows I've had my problems with IngoB over the years, but I am fed up to the back teeth with so many things being labelled as bullying these days.
IngoB is not a bully. He does not follow people around the boards picking on them. He doesn't harass people, nor does he threaten, abuse, or coerce people. Some people no doubt find him intimidating because he's smart and verbose, but he doesn't go around trying to instill fear through intimidation.
To lump IngoB in with the kid who shook you down for your lunch money or beat you up after school or with the boss who is seeking to make your life at work a living hell is bullshit. If you don't want to go 15 rounds with IngoB in Purgatory, then don't. If you're not interested in his brand of hard-hitting, persistent debate, don't interact with him. It's why there's a scrolling function, for crying out loud.
Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
To lump IngoB in with the kid who shook you down for your lunch money or beat you up after school or with the boss who is seeking to make your life at work a living hell is bullshit. If you don't want to go 15 rounds with IngoB in Purgatory, then don't. If you're not interested in his brand of hard-hitting, persistent debate, don't interact with him. It's why there's a scrolling function, for crying out loud.
Yeah, being annoyed by someone does not make them a bully. As Ruth said, wait till someone is following you all over the board and then compare how you feel about the two situations.
And I had a revelation the last time I tangled with our guest of honor-- it's pretty stupid to sniff at someone for having lastworditis when you yourself are struggling to get the last word. As one of my teaching mentors put it"Let 'em have the last word-- words are cheap."
I wound up giving up the last word and going to the zoo. Did me a world of good.
--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
If you don't want to go 15 rounds with IngoB in Purgatory, then don't.
I agree. If you can walk away and the guy is just standing there trying to get you to fight him, but doesn't pursue as you leave, then it's not really bullying. ![[Smile]](smile.gif) All you have to do is stop playing the game. Which I heartily recommend. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
it's pretty stupid to sniff at someone for having lastworditis when you yourself are struggling to get the last word. As one of my teaching mentors put it"Let 'em have the last word-- words are cheap."
I wound up giving up the last word and going to the zoo. Did me a world of good.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif) Awesome advice for internet conflicts in general.
--------------------
My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
opaWim
Shipmate
# 11137
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
IngoB is not a bully.....
You are quite right, I stand corrected.
--------------------
It's the Thirties all over again, possibly even worse.
Posts: 524 | From: The Marshes | Registered: Mar 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
IngoB
Sentire cum Ecclesia
# 8700
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Yes. Address the point I made.
Fine. Let me pretend that you are actually listening, and that you have good intentions. So then...
I'm pretty damn good at defending my points, and attacking contrary points. And I enjoy doing so aggressively (though, I insist, usually without low blows). That is particularly visible since my opinions are controversial in these parts (frequently, I stand up for the very opinion that most people around here love to hate). When I hammer away at something or the other, I sometimes get called to hell. Then indeed the hell call is usually about my manners or attitude or the like.
Do I consider these to be valid complaints? To some degree, sure. It is true that I could be less aggressive and more accommodating. However, I also think that there is plenty of falsehood in these complaints. I think to a large extent they are transferred emotions from getting clobbered on topic. People cannot reasonably call me to Hell for my opinions, because I could then just call them right back to the source thread where I am already defending my opinions. So they need to focus on something else in what is being said, and what could it be but my style of arguing?
Furthermore, these complaints are usually hypocritical and/or one-sided. In my opinion, I get plenty of trash talk all the time. Honestly, I rarely see myself dishing out more than I'm getting. But I don't call people to Hell (after all, I think that Hell is childish and stupid), and neither do most of the people that share some of my controversial opinions. Perhaps because they know that the outcome of "drawing a big, fat bull's eye on your chest" depends on how many people will be trying to hit that bull's eye. Hell has no minority protection. Anyway, I often see people that have just behaved nastily to me chastising me for being so nasty. That doesn't particularly impress.
So the upshot is that you are correct, I indeed think that much of the criticism I get, in Hell, is rather questionable. Repeating something questionable a billion times does not make it any less questionable. I'm not "learning" much from these repeated Hell calls. Other than perhaps to become more cynical about mankind. And yes, it is true, I could reduce the frequency of my Hell calls by toning down the aggression. But I've looked at my levels, and to me they strike just about the right balance. By word count, I'm surely among the top ten posters on these boards, and I have been doing it for a decade. To keep this up, I need this to be fun for me. And I'm sorry, but as so often stated what keeps me going is the cut and thrust of a heated debate. If I get too nice, I will just bore myself away from this website. For many this surely would be a great relief, but I kind of like it here.
As far as arrogance goes, the dictionary (OED on my Mac) explains "having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities." The problem there is of course the word "exaggerated". I think I have a fairly accurate sense of my own importance and abilities. And yes, I'm sorry, but that does include the fact that I'm "better" than many people on SoF in some general attributes, and certainly in some specialised skills. I'm also "worse" than many people on SoF in some general attributes, and certainly in some specialised skills. To give an example for the latter, the ease with which many people around here write quality poetry is not something I can hope to match.
Practically speaking though, I think much of my supposed arrogance stems from a simple selection effect. I rarely engage in a thread unless I see the following conditions fulfilled: 1. I have a reasonably strong opinion on this matter, and I'm interested. 2. I'm reasonably well informed about this. 3. What people are saying so far is in my judgement largely wrong and / or inadequate. Otherwise I tend to simply not say anything. I rarely post along the lines of "I also think X, as Y has said." I just don't see the point of doing that. For the most part then I only get into full swing when I'm basically rejecting one post after another. So people get this idea that's all I ever do. Often enough though I read but decide not to post, or indeed withdraw because things seem to go fine without me. To give a recent example, even though this thread specifically called me in, it evolved rather quickly into a direction where I didn't feel I had to contribute much according to those three points. Basically, there was lots written about "relativism", and I don't have a particularly strong opinion on that, I have not done my homework on this, and what some of the people (like Dafyd) were saying seemed reasonable enough. So I stopped posting. The threads where I tend to end up in Hell are usually at the extreme end of these three criteria being fulfilled. The more it becomes a one man show, IngoB against the rest of the world, the greater the chances that I end up being called here. The smart thing to do in these cases would be to just call it a day and bow out. But that sort of smartness is not one of the things where I'm "better" than most people here...
So in summary, while your "analysis" clearly has no intention to help, but just to offend and hurt, there is some truth to the little content that it has. I indeed see much of the blame elsewhere, partly in other people's misbehaviour, partly just in mismatching expectations. However, I do not deny all responsibility. Indeed, I will take quite a bit of it. Yet I can live with that. To become a perfectly acceptable Shipmate according to you would require this place to become boring and pointless to me. I guess I need to be a bit of an "asshole" to keep myself going. I'm OK with that, I really am. If you are not, then I guess you need to call me to Hell. Apparently that keeps you going.
--------------------
They’ll have me whipp’d for speaking true; thou’lt have me whipp’d for lying; and sometimes I am whipp’d for holding my peace. - The Fool in King Lear
Posts: 12010 | From: Gone fishing | Registered: Oct 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
