Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Also, fuck Ann Coulter. When I get to a place where I can create a proper hyperlink, I will explain this in Hell.

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You don't think that people such as her are best ignored?

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:

* Although who knows what would have happened today if Ghana hadn't imploded.

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Posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
None work safe links - so biting better or worse than this or this ?

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Posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
If you're in need of a footballing fix, you could always ...

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Link 2 looks like it might have been carelessness, but link 1 is just as bad as Suarez, imo. That's just straight up wrong.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Probably less painful though, and has the benefit of not being (technically) a sexual assault (well depending where you bite).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Link 2 looks like it might have been carelessness, but link 1 is just as bad as Suarez, imo. That's just straight up wrong.

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The key issue to think of here is whether or not it's ok in streetfighting.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
If a European side doesn't win it I hope a new team does, like Holland or Chile.

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I realize Holland has been otherworldly good many times this year, but on which continent do we find it...?

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

Posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Probably less painful though, and has the benefit of not being (technically) a sexual assault (well depending where you bite).

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As of now, looking at precedent, biting someone in the shoulder without getting through the skin (yes, degree is ALWAYS part of suspension maths) is to begin with 1 game worse than breaking someone's nose with an aimed elbow, e.g. Tassotti -94, and also more than twice as bad as breaking someone's skull, leaving the person hospitalized for months, as in Leonardo -94. Painwise?

And yes, hitting below the belt is fairly common, I'd say. Myself I often used gay sweet-talk to disturb fellow 14-year-olds on the other side, which used to get them somewhat shaken. I'm straight myself, but at a time when homophobia is at its worst and the need to prove oneself at its highest, it worked pretty well. Once or twice in difficult games a hand may have slipped to the attacker's butt before a corner kick. They never scored at those times, although I now realize it was probably sexual harassment. However, plenty of football action could also go as assault and/or battery - which is not condoning any of it, but I can understand my efficiency-focused 14-year-old mind.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Link 2 looks like it might have been carelessness, but link 1 is just as bad as Suarez, imo. That's just straight up wrong.

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The key issue to think of here is whether or not it's ok in streetfighting.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
If a European side doesn't win it I hope a new team does, like Holland or Chile.

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I realize Holland has been otherworldly good many times this year, but on which continent do we find it...?

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Thanks but I think I'll stick with my Henry vs. Defoe and 20 other guys fix in a couple of hours.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
[Biting] is Probably less painful [than a kick in the goolies] , and has the benefit of not being (technically) a sexual assault (well depending where you bite).

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As of now, looking at precedent, biting someone in the shoulder without getting through the skin (yes, degree is ALWAYS part of suspension maths) is to begin with 1 game worse than breaking someone's nose with an aimed elbow, e.g. Tassotti -94, and also more than twice as bad as breaking someone's skull, leaving the person hospitalized for months, as in Leonardo -94. Painwise?

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
And today is that weird day where we go......


what


no games!?!?

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
(I hate all of them, in fact I hate all teams except my own but some more than others, so I hate Germany, Argentina (and Brazil because they're a bunch of diving tarts, such deserve to be kicked in the bollocks) and Millwall, Chelsea, Spurs especially).

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:
Hoping for Chile to cause a boilover tonight, and to meet Colombia in the next round. To me Brazil has been a bit unconvincing and somewhat lucky.

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Posted                    

quote:

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"After the impact... I lost my balance, making my body unstable and falling on top of my opponent. At that moment I hit my face against the player, leaving a small bruise on my cheek and a strong pain in my teeth."

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Probably less painful though, and has the benefit of not being (technically) a sexual assault (well depending where you bite).

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As of now, looking at precedent, biting someone in the shoulder without getting through the skin (yes, degree is ALWAYS part of suspension maths) is to begin with 1 game worse than breaking someone's nose with an aimed elbow, e.g. Tassotti -94, and also more than twice as bad as breaking someone's skull, leaving the person hospitalized for months, as in Leonardo -94. Painwise?

And yes, hitting below the belt is fairly common, I'd say. Myself I often used gay sweet-talk to disturb fellow 14-year-olds on the other side, which used to get them somewhat shaken. I'm straight myself, but at a time when homophobia is at its worst and the need to prove oneself at its highest, it worked pretty well. Once or twice in difficult games a hand may have slipped to the attacker's butt before a corner kick. They never scored at those times, although I now realize it was probably sexual harassment. However, plenty of football action could also go as assault and/or battery - which is not condoning any of it, but I can understand my efficiency-focused 14-year-old mind.

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
Link 2 looks like it might have been carelessness, but link 1 is just as bad as Suarez, imo. That's just straight up wrong.

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The key issue to think of here is whether or not it's ok in streetfighting.

quote:

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Originally posted by Ad Orientem:
If a European side doesn't win it I hope a new team does, like Holland or Chile.

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I realize Holland has been otherworldly good many times this year, but on which continent do we find it...?

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Luis Suárez's statement to the FIFA disciplinary panel has been seen by journalists. It includes the following statement from the player:

quote:

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"After the impact... I lost my balance, making my body unstable and falling on top of my opponent. At that moment I hit my face against the player, leaving a small bruise on my cheek and a strong pain in my teeth."

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Unbelievable.

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Posted                    

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Then why not just say everything bar blood injury is permitted ? If you claim it is about football skill, then why permit people to basically fight ?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
(Oh and re caring, homophobic bullying and sexual harassment are things we are generally - as a society - wanting to discourage. It is basically the same reason whispering hey monkey, monkey at black players to distract them would not be OK.)

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quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:
I'm confused. Does he think they're a bunch of old fogeys who don't understand how video cameras work?

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Luis Suárez's statement to the FIFA disciplinary panel has been seen by journalists. It includes the following statement from the player:

quote:

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"After the impact... I lost my balance, making my body unstable and falling on top of my opponent. At that moment I hit my face against the player, leaving a small bruise on my cheek and a strong pain in my teeth."

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Unbelievable.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

Does he think no-one saw this? Where's the pre-bite impact, then?

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Then why not just say everything bar blood injury is permitted ? If you claim it is about football skill, then why permit people to basically fight ?

(Oh and re caring, homophobic bullying and sexual harassment are things we are generally - as a society - wanting to discourage. It is basically the same reason whispering hey monkey, monkey at black players to distract them would not be OK.)

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

Does he think no-one saw this? Where's the pre-bite impact, then?

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I remember seeing him writhing on the ground and clutching his face, then I watched the replay to see what caused that,and thinking, "... The hell? Nothing happened to him!" ( from the angle I missed the bite, but it was clear whatever was going on was initiated by Suarez.)

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Then why not just say everything bar blood injury is permitted ? If you claim it is about football skill, then why permit people to basically fight ?

(Oh and re caring, homophobic bullying and sexual harassment are things we are generally - as a society - wanting to discourage. It is basically the same reason whispering hey monkey, monkey at black players to distract them would not be OK.)

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Knowing when and how to use force/physical contact is in itself a skill. Timing the tackle not just so as to get the ball but to disbalance the attacker optimally is about winning time for him to get up and lowering the other team's morale.

As for homophobic comments, I think the only mention has been my own, in which it was more of an act of playing on the other party's homophobia to get them out of focus. The racial similarity of this would be for a black player to take a fearful prejudice about blacks and use it against the racist, presumably something like "Ooh, have I told you about the night I had with your daughter?" or something such.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

Does he think no-one saw this? Where's the pre-bite impact, then?

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I remember seeing him writhing on the ground and clutching his face, then I watched the replay to see what caused that,and thinking, "... The hell? Nothing happened to him!" ( from the angle I missed the bite, but it was clear whatever was going on was initiated by Suarez.)

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While I haven't seen the footage (at least, not lately), I'm given to understand that Suarez writhed on the ground 'injured' after one of his other bites as well.

One theory is that it's a short-term distraction technique from what he's done. I suppose it would be a bit obvious if he just stood there grinning maniacally with a glint of bloodlust in his eye.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Then why not just say everything bar blood injury is permitted ? If you claim it is about football skill, then why permit people to basically fight ?

(Oh and re caring, homophobic bullying and sexual harassment are things we are generally - as a society - wanting to discourage. It is basically the same reason whispering hey monkey, monkey at black players to distract them would not be OK.)

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Knowing when and how to use force/physical contact is in itself a skill. Timing the tackle not just so as to get the ball but to disbalance the attacker optimally is about winning time for him to get up and lowering the other team's morale.

As for homophobic comments, I think the only mention has been my own, in which it was more of an act of playing on the other party's homophobia to get them out of focus. The racial similarity of this would be for a black player to take a fearful prejudice about blacks and use it against the racist, presumably something like "Ooh, have I told you about the night I had with your daughter?" or something such.

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And how is that not intentionally cheating ?

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH
A Swedish psychologist raised a theory that it could actually be a reaction of his inner trauma that first leads up to the bite and then adds shame and an extreme stress reaction to follow from it which takes an expression similar to, or warped into, an injury writhing.

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An American child development specialist would like to suggest that he was playing the classic game of "he hit me first/ I got hurt worster than him!" Well known to nine- year olds worldwide. He was trying to cover his ass.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH
A Swedish psychologist raised a theory that it could actually be a reaction of his inner trauma that first leads up to the bite and then adds shame and an extreme stress reaction to follow from it which takes an expression similar to, or warped into, an injury writhing.

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An American child development specialist would like to suggest that he was playing the classic game of "he hit me first/ I got hurt worster than him!" Well known to nine- year olds worldwide. He was trying to cover his ass.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH
A Swedish psychologist raised a theory that it could actually be a reaction of his inner trauma that first leads up to the bite and then adds shame and an extreme stress reaction to follow from it which takes an expression similar to, or warped into, an injury writhing.

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An American child development specialist would like to suggest that he was playing the classic game of "he hit me first/ I got hurt worster than him!" Well known to nine- year olds worldwide. He was trying to cover his ass.

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The advantage of the approach of the Swedish psychologist is that it accounts for and allows us to persist in think Suarez's biting a demented behaviour of a sick man, rather than the logical behaviour of a healthy man with a different view on what's inhuman. It allows us to keep Suarez human and broken rather than inhuman and clever. Thus the "Swedish theory" has more explanatory value, it seems, and is the one we should scientifically adopt.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Or his manager should learn the early warning signs and then substitute him when they see them.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by Doublethink:
Essentially, argument for a ban for Suarez is on the basis that it is a) unacceptable violence *and* b) cheating.

And various of us have been saying these other things are also cheating and/or violent (with ongoing discussion of which is more or less violent).

You, who have said somewhere you are a ref, have given a number of examples of behaviour you see as OK - that I would see as cheating and/or abusive/violent.

It was my understanding that the rules require the aim of a tackle to be getting the ball. So it would seem to me that timing your tackle with the intention of bringing down the player is a breach of the rules - even if it is not detected. And therefore is not something you should be training to do. And would then be cheating, even if you got away with it.

For those of us who don't play and watch casually - we hear all this discourse about fair play, the aim of the game, skill etc - and attempts to prevent foul play - whereas you seem to be presenting a very different picture of how the game should be played. We see all these players paid tens of millions of pounds who don't seem to be able to play ninety minutes without breaking the rules - you don't see that in tennis, cricket etc

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:
I note that the red card for anything rule would not stop Suarez's big offence in the last World Cup, and there will always be situations like that.

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Posted                    

quote:

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Originally posted by orfeo:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH:

quote:

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Originally posted by Kelly Alves:

quote:

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Originally posted by JFH
A Swedish psychologist raised a theory that it could actually be a reaction of his inner trauma that first leads up to the bite and then adds shame and an extreme stress reaction to follow from it which takes an expression similar to, or warped into, an injury writhing.

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An American child development specialist would like to suggest that he was playing the classic game of "he hit me first/ I got hurt worster than him!" Well known to nine- year olds worldwide. He was trying to cover his ass.

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The advantage of the approach of the Swedish psychologist is that it accounts for and allows us to persist in think Suarez's biting a demented behaviour of a sick man, rather than the logical behaviour of a healthy man with a different view on what's inhuman. It allows us to keep Suarez human and broken rather than inhuman and clever. Thus the "Swedish theory" has more explanatory value, it seems, and is the one we should scientifically adopt.

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After it's happened 3 times, it's about time to stop using any explanation of why he bites in a given situation (or why he might writhe on the ground afterwards, although frankly the proffered explanation sounds like a pile of horseshit given the sheer speed at which Suarez switches to injured mode), and see to it that he isn't in that given situation again.

If it is in fact the case that Mr Suarez is a psychologically vulnerable individual who will bite people in moments of high stress during a football match, Mr Suarez should not, in the interests of his mental health, be playing football.

EDIT: And of course, if he is in fact an evil little git who intentionally decides to bite opponents, then he shouldn't be playing football. The point being, it doesn't actually matter which explanation you employ as to why he does it, the fact is that he does it. Almost annually.

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