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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » World Cup 2014: The truly global party (Page 13)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: World Cup 2014: The truly global party
Starbug
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# 15917

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Or his manager should learn the early warning signs and then substitute him when they see them.

Given that he already seems to find it difficult to take responsibility for his own actions, I don't think that making his manager (or anyone else) responsible for managing his behaviour would be very helpful. It's a pity that there isn't a penalty that would punish only Suarez without impacting on his team-mates.

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“Oh the pointing again. They're screwdrivers! What are you going to do? Assemble a cabinet at them?” ― The Day of the Doctor

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Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Chile - Brazil has just gone to penalities - I am fancying Chile to win this now. Very exciting match so far.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Ricardus
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# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Has Liverpool said anything this time around? Apparently they originally signed him when he was on his first ban with Ajax, which doesn't bode well.

Liverpool have said they are withholding comment until they have studied the Fifa disciplinary report.

As for signing Suárez while suspended, Suárez was scouted by Roy Hodgson and signed by Kenny Dalglish. Since Liverpool's manager has been Brendan Rodgers for the past two years, I don't think you can draw any conclusions from the circumstances of his signing.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Chile - Brazil has just gone to penalities - I am fancying Chile to win this now. Very exciting match so far.

I am a crap football prophet.

--------------------
All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Cracking game though.

Now to watch Uruguay get knocked out. Not a moment too soon, either.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
quote:
Originally posted by Kelly Alves:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by JFH[qb]
A Swedish psychologist raised a theory that it could actually be a reaction of his inner trauma that first leads up to the bite and then adds shame and an extreme stress reaction to follow from it which takes an expression similar to, or warped into, an injury writhing.

[Big Grin]
An American child development specialist would like to suggest that he was playing the classic game of "he hit me first/ I got hurt worster than him!" Well known to nine- year olds worldwide. He was trying to cover his ass.

The advantage of the approach of the Swedish psychologist is that it accounts for and allows us to persist in think Suarez's biting a demented behaviour of a sick man, rather than the logical behaviour of a healthy man with a different view on what's inhuman.
I don't think most people, psychologust or not, would think that a grown man applying the moral reasoning of a child is a sign of mental stability.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Kelly Alves

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# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Cracking game though.

Now to watch Uruguay get knocked out. Not a moment too soon, either.

If they pussyfoot around like they did the other day, should happen pretty quickly.

If it makes you feel better, DT, I was rooting for Chile, too.

[ 28. June 2014, 20:23: Message edited by: Kelly Alves ]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Kelly Alves

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# 2522

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Actually it looks like Colombia is forcing them to rev up their game.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
Thanks but I think I'll stick with my Henry vs. Defoe and 20 other guys fix in a couple of hours.

Where is Jermaine these days? I thought he had transferred or was on loan to a US side...
Scored last night....wasn't a bad game to watch actually, unless you are into perfection.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Fun to watch both of these - goal was impressive.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Timothy the Obscure

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# 292

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Chile - Brazil has just gone to penalities - I am fancying Chile to win this now. Very exciting match so far.

I am a crap football prophet.
Brazil's luck holds,in spite of lackluster play. That's why I hate shootouts. Like Casey Stengel said, "I'd rather be lucky than good." But I can't see them getting lucky enough to beat Colombia.

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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GOOOOOOOOAAAALLL!!!

It was like watching a really big game of keep-away. [Big Grin]

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Timothy the Obscure

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# 292

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The Rodriguez story is like a plot from one of those cheesy YA sports novels I used to read when I was 13. He's what, 22?

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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How the hell do you give a yellow card to someone on the bench !?!

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Kelly Alves

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# 2522

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Yeah, explain to me what happened there. All I could think was, "Where the hell did he come from?"

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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He yellow carded the guy sitting on the ground too.

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Timothy the Obscure

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I assume the guy on the bench made a smart-ass comment when the ref was running short of patience.

I'm 2 for 2 on predictions so far. I would have liked Chile to win, though.

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

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An die Freude
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# 14794

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
How the hell do you give a yellow card to someone on the bench !?!

It started a few years back when the Swedish ref Anders Frisk gave a red card to a person on the bench who was involved in a big crowd spat, and ordered him off the bench and field - that's one of the effects of a red card (plus the automatic suspension next match). FIFA realized the uses of this and implemented it as a new rule, and a referee can now give a yellow or red card to people on the bench because they can also get themselves into trouble or fights or be involved in other situations of unsportsmanlike behaviour covered by the rulebook.

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

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Imaginary Friend

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Managers and coaching staff can also be sent off, not just players.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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An die Freude
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# 14794

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They can be sent off, but they cannot be given a red card.

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

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orfeo

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# 13878

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I'm all caught up. FINALLY. Being a Sunday I slept in have studiously avoided all news sites.

Watching Brazil-Chile was gripping, aided by having several reasons to barrack for Chile. They came so close, and there were definitely periods of the game where I thought they were going to do it. You could absolutely feel and hear the tension in the stadium in the second half, as thousands of Brazilian fans collectively thought 'this is not going to plan'. They almost turned on their team. But, in the end, they squeezed through.

And Colombia are just a joy to watch. Would you believe they're missing their best striker, Falcao? Given what a marvel James Rodriguez is, I'd be scared to see them play with extra weaponry!

And it's not just individual brilliance, they also score some beautiful team goals, like the second one today.

I'm clearly not the only one who likes them. I found this team review both somewhat accurate and rather amusing.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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orfeo

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# 13878

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As for the next day: I'll be sad to see the Mexicans go if they go, but I think they might. I'd kind of be sad to see the Dutch go, too.

I'll not be sad to see Greece go. Costa Rica should beat them and continue their own fairytale IF they put their team football together again and don't make stupid mistakes.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Cod
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# 2643

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Good to see Dirtyguay out of the tournament.
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An die Freude
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quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
Good to see Dirtyguay out of the tournament.

Do you mean Uruguay's dirty playing men's soccer team, or Uruguay as a dirty country? Or, for that matter, just any team containing Suarez?

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:


And Colombia are just a joy to watch. Would you believe they're missing their best striker, Falcao? Given what a marvel James Rodriguez is, I'd be scared to see them play with extra weaponry!

And it's not just individual brilliance, they also score some beautiful team goals, like the second one today.


Aren't they? Their teamwork is beautifully in sync.

Neph also made me watch the US / Germany game, to explain a grumble he'd made about the US not giving their all in the first half. First off, Germany was stunning. Second, as I opined to Neph, it wasn't that Our Boys weren't giving their all, it's that they were baffled and perplexed by Germany's moves. They pulled it together, though.

I got the same sense with Uruguay. Leaving Chompers out of it, their collective level of game play is pretty meh. Having said that, when faced with Colombia, they did seem to be trying to hustle yesterday. Although it was hilarious to see them staring at the ball sailing over their heads in the first ten minutes or so, like it never occured to them that the game involved kicking.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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( after re- reading the previous page)

I feel the need to observe that, in both of the games I mentioned above, very little fouling or diving was going on-- and they were both stellar games.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Mexico beating the Netherlands would be kinda nice.

Otherwise I think we are going to see the usual suspects in the semis.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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AI QUE NOOOOOOO!!! [Waterworks]

How did Mexico lose their lead?

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Well that was dramatic !

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Arjen bloody Robben.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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rolyn
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# 16840

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Ref falls for the last minute penalty-box dying swan routine and the dutch go through .

Vaguely annoying for those with sympathies for the mexicans, all part of the modern game it would seem.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Kelly Alves

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# 2522

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Arjen bloody Robben.

(now that I got a chance to see more of the game) Yeah, fuck him.

--------------------
I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Holy crap !!

What is it with this scoring in injury time !?!

(Keeps fingers crossed for Costa Rica)

[ 29. June 2014, 21:51: Message edited by: Doublethink ]

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Tom Day
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# 3630

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quote:
Originally posted by Doublethink:
Holy crap !!

What is it with this scoring in injury time !?!

(Keeps fingers crossed for Costa Rica)

And I was just about to go to bed... Greece are playing ok, should have scored more tough really. Costs Rica look absolutely shattered. If it goes to penalties they will struggle to kick the ball!

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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Its gone to penalties ....

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

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Kyzyl

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# 374

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Los Ticos pulled it out!

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I need a quote.

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Cod
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# 2643

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quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
Good to see Dirtyguay out of the tournament.

Do you mean Uruguay's dirty playing men's soccer team, or Uruguay as a dirty country? Or, for that matter, just any team containing Suarez?
The team. They do have a history of dirty play. Suarez has merely continued a long tradition. No tournament would be complete without them, but it just isn't right for them to stay in too long.

Godim's handball against England made me laugh though. A little shimmy and Oh! Oh! My hand!

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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier

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Cod
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# 2643

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A few pages ago, there was some discussion about how points are calculated for the FIFA rankings. Well, the answer is here:

FIFA ranking calculations

In a fit of anorak-inspired enthusiasm, I started calculating points, and came up with the following results:

Win over Spain in WC finals tournament: 2,388 points.

Win over Honduras, ditto: 1,764.

Win over Spain, qualifying tournament: 1,493

Draw v. Brazil, WC final: 788

Loss in any of the above examples: 0.

Draw v Kazakhstan, friendly: 76.

Win v Scotland, qualifying tournament: 1,222.

Results over the past are averaged and weighted according to how historic they are.

A heroic but ultimately futile 1-0 loss away to Germany is therefore going to count for less than a dodgy 1-0 victory against Iceland. In fact it will count the same (ie, nothing) as an 8-0 stonking by Germany. Therefore, a team that qualifies unconvincingly from a weak group will be higher up the rankings than a team that plays well against better opposition but still loses. And - after the WC finishes - watch Costa Rica fly up the rankings. This is their points tally so far:

3-1 v Uruguay (7th) 2,316
1-0 v Italy (9th) 2,292
0-0 v England (10th) 772
1-1 v Greece (12th) 752

Total 6,132 at an average of 1,533 points per match: nearly 400% of their total this year so far. By comparison, Spain's average for this year so far was 664.

[edited to correct Italy result]

[ 30. June 2014, 07:01: Message edited by: Cod ]

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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier

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deano
princess
# 12063

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What I'm finding interesting is the number of players from average teams (Cesar at QPR, Kasami at Fulham etc) who have been indifferent to say the least for their clubs, who are now finding themselves in the quarter finals of the world cup!

Some of their club managers and fans will be thinking why couldn't they play that well in the league?

Cesar couldn't get on the bench at QPR and he's the Brazillian first choice goalkeeper. It's a funny old game.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Cesar couldn't get on the bench at QPR and he's the Brazillian first choice goalkeeper. It's a funny old game.

That might say more about the relative merits of 'Arry and Big Phil though. [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sir Kevin
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# 3492

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Good to see Costa Rica pulled off a win on penalties, especially as they had been a man down for more than an hour! At least there are a couple of sides from the Americas sure to go through! My blue jeans and red, white and blue Hilfiger polo shirt are all ready for tomorrow.

Can anyone suggest a good US beer for watching the match with?

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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.

Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794

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quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
quote:
Originally posted by Cod:
Good to see Dirtyguay out of the tournament.

Do you mean Uruguay's dirty playing men's soccer team, or Uruguay as a dirty country? Or, for that matter, just any team containing Suarez?
The team. They do have a history of dirty play. Suarez has merely continued a long tradition. No tournament would be complete without them, but it just isn't right for them to stay in too long.

Godim's handball against England made me laugh though. A little shimmy and Oh! Oh! My hand!

Bitter Hypocrenglish supporters - one sip from your chosen beverage.

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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH

Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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I did watch both games fairly soon after they were on, just haven't got around to posting.

Aargh, how horrible it must be to be a Mexican when the World Cup is on! They have a long, long history of 'honourable defeats' at this stage of the tournament - impressing people with their play but bowing out nevertheless - but this takes the cake. I think this would be much harder to bear than a game where they were outclassed.

Was it a penalty? I think perhaps it was. Robben is a diver and frankly he should get cards for it, but on that particular occasion there might really have been a foul.

Perhaps more importantly, without the penalty the match was headed for extra time and I think Mexico would have been in trouble. Commentators here and abroad have observed that Mexico's coach got too defensive far too early, and invited the Netherlands to attack once Mexico had the lead. The Dutch had already got one goal and seemed a lot more likely to get further ones. So I doubt that the penalty changed the result, it's more likely that it hastened it.

Compared to that, the other match was pretty tedious. Not even a local referee (and I do mean local, as in from this city) added much excitement. I'm slightly embarrassed he missed a Greek handball that surely should have been a penalty, but in the end that didn't effect the result. I'm glad the Greeks are out because I find their play unbearably dull. Costa Rica has become less exciting too, though, I think now they have something to lose and it's affecting their style.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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As for tomorrow: I expect France to win but it might not be easy, and Germany will probably be too good for Algeria even though the Algerians will be incredibly motivated for revenge against the country that conspired against them so badly in 1982. You couldn't wish for a better or more justified grudge.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Aargh, how horrible it must be to be a Mexican when the World Cup is on!

A friend told me she'd driven past a Mexican bar here in town shortly after the game and seen a guy standing in front of it, waving the Mexican flag and crying.

I was going to cheer for the Mexicans once the US is eliminated. Now I'll have to find another team.

Posts: 24453 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doublethink.
Ship's Foolwise Unperson
# 1984

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Costa Rica - support the underdog ...

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All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. George Orwell

Posts: 19219 | From: Erehwon | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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So far, I am 5/5 on my predictions! Feeling pretty smug. Holland were made to sweat more than I had thought, but in the end it just goes to show that the top teams can play to the final whistle, whereas lesser teams tend to fade. (Also, it shows the benefit of having a skilled diver in your team!!)

Much as I would love Costa Rica to beat Holland (not least for the ability for Brits to claim a perverse sense of one-up-manship of "we drew with CR and Holland lost to them. Therefore we must be better than Holland"), I can't see the fairy story continuing. [Frown]

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kyzyl

Ship's dog
# 374

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At least the French will eliminate the Germans, or vice versa. One less European team to advance.

My hierarchy of support:
1. USA
2. Concancaf teams
3. Western Hemisphere teams
4. Asia, Africa, Oceania teams
5. European teams who have never won it
6. All the rest of Europe

[ 30. June 2014, 22:04: Message edited by: Kyzyl ]

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I need a quote.

Posts: 668 | From: Wapasha's Prairie | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Timothy the Obscure

Mostly Friendly
# 292

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I'm 6/6 now. Which of course means that my prediction of US victory over Belgium* is all but guaranteed ( [Killing me] ).

The striking thing about this World Cup is that the historically dominant teams that have survived have beaten underdogs very narrowly (France and Germany today, but there are many other examples) while other Great Powers have gone down to very decisive defeats. There does seem to be a realignment in progress. I don't think we're far from seeing an African team in the final. (And if you think everybody hates the USA now, wait till we win the Cup...)


*If Altidore is healthy, as rumored.

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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
  - C. P. Snow

Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Oscar the Grouch

Adopted Cascadian
# 1916

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And yet the African nations have fared poorly.

Cameroon, Ghana and Ivory Coast flopped in the group stages. Nigeria and Algeria squeezed through to the next round but have failed to make the Qtrs.

I actually think that we are further away from seeing an African nation win the World Cup than we were four or eight years ago. I don't think the players are coming through and the organisation needed to build a successful team simply isn't there. African national sides still seem to be too chaotic and fractious.

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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu

Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged



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