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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: World Cup 2014: The truly global party
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
Extraordinary match between Man U and Liverpool. I can't remember a team being awarded three penalties in one game before, but Gerrard said that Jan Molby scored three in the first match he was taken to as a kid. To be fair, that third one probably shouldn't have been given, but on the other hand there were a couple of others which could have been.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Apparently the league is now Liverpool's to lose. I despair.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Apparently the league is now Liverpool's to lose. I despair.
On the basis of the last six weeks none of the other contenders seem to want it much. If qualification for the Champions League was to simply be champions, then they might be trying harder.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Apparently the league is now Liverpool's to lose. I despair.
And there's a realistic chance (I think!) of Southampton finishing ahead of Moyes' lot.
*Does little dance of joy*
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Apparently, Moyes is now a good manager again. I despair.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Arsenal, eh? Sorry not sorry Ariston.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
You still can't have Defoe back.
21K stamping their feet in 2 degree weather yesterday at the home opener. It was cold, the pitch was a lumpen mess (we got a foot of snow a week ago), and the ref was still in preseason form but it was fun to watch.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I went to DC United's home opener when I was visiting a couple of weeks ago. Very pleasant spring weather, just a little nip in the air. United were woeful, but the refereeing was atrocious. Am I right in thinking that the league has a dispute with the refereeing union and so they've had to draft replacements in from various far-flung parts of central and southern America? That might explain it.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Everton, Norwich and Spurs all win, so me and my sons who follow football are all happy. It must be the first time in months this has happened!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
So, anyone else watching the Manc derby tonight?
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, anyone else watching the Manc derby tonight?
Most of Surrey and Cheshire I imagine.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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pjl
Shipmate
# 16929
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Posted
Watched the game on tv.
City did not need to shift to 3rd gear.
Going to be a tight run in for the title.
Posts: 576 | From: england | Registered: Feb 2012
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by pjl:
Going to be a tight run in for the title.
Honestly, I rather suspect it isn't. I think City will get a result at Anfield (a draw would be good enough for them) and I think they will be more consistent than Chelsea against lower-table opposition. The title's staying in Manchester this year.
The race for second might be pretty tight though.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I think City will get a result at Anfield (a draw would be good enough for them)
I hope you are wrong. I have tickets for this match and it will be Junior Whale's introduction to Anfield. But looking at the relative merits of both teams' attack and defence I fear a 7-6 victory to City might be on the cards.
quote:
The race for second might be pretty tight though.
Bring it on!
JtW
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Because the top three all play other teams in the top three (Liverpool play both of them) I think it works out that if any of them win their remaining games, they win the Premiership. That's how it should be.
Moyes has now reverted to mediocrity and is on record that the Mancs decline is all his fault.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by pjl:
Going to be a tight run in for the title.
Honestly, I rather suspect it isn't. I think City will get a result at Anfield (a draw would be good enough for them) and I think they will be more consistent than Chelsea against lower-table opposition. The title's staying in Manchester this year.
The race for second might be pretty tight though.
Actually, since City have a game in hand, they could lose at Anfield and still be in pole position.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Ignore my post - Liverpool need some results to go their way, whatever they do.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
So do Chelsea. In fact, City are the only remaining masters of their own destiny.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Arsenal are like a load of dumbshit arseholes after their own goal a few days ago! Would that they could keep effing up and let my Spurs back into fourth where we belong!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
Kevin, for Spurs to climb to fourth they themselves would have to stop effing up and hope Everton start.
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
Kevin, for Spurs to climb to fourth they themselves would have to stop effing up and hope Everton start.
Everton start what? Playing like David Moyes is still in charge?
I've seen the Mancs run-in and even including the match at Goodison Park, they should get five wins out of it. Sorry Sir Kevin, Spurs to finish seventh.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I'm not sure anyone wants to win the league this year.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I went to DC United's home opener when I was visiting a couple of weeks ago. Very pleasant spring weather, just a little nip in the air. United were woeful, but the refereeing was atrocious. Am I right in thinking that the league has a dispute with the refereeing union and so they've had to draft replacements in from various far-flung parts of central and southern America? That might explain it.
Sorry, just saw this:
Yes, they did have to bring in replacements. Most of them were management or people too old to be on the lists anymore.
They settled in time for a couple of games now, and consensus is the usual refs are still in spring training mode.
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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."
Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I'm not sure anyone wants to win the league this year.
Both Merseyside teams look interested!
There now appear to be two contests at the top: a three-way fight for the title, with second and third going into the Champions League, and a four-way contest for the last Champions League spot and the poisoned chalice of a Europa Cup place.
Ideally Everton will get the former, so we can make serious bids for Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu (sp?), and Manure the Europa Cup spot, so they will have fixture overload next year.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Ideally Everton will get the former, so we can make serious bids for Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu (sp?), and Manure the Europa Cup spot, so they will have fixture overload next year.
Aha, an Everton fan - tell me what you make of Roberto Martinez, would you? I thought Everton would struggle due to Martinez not being able to coach and organise a good defence at Wigan. But from what I've seen he's transformed Everton style-wise and retained their defensive qualities; perhaps at Wigan he was hamstrung by the relative lack of funds available.
Makes me wonder how Martinez would be getting on at Man U if they'd gone for him rather than Moyes...
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Makes me wonder how Martinez would be getting on at Man U if they'd gone for him rather than Moyes...
Well, given he would have had to deal with an aging squad and one with some less than successful buys from previous seasons, I would suggest we would probably have been relegated by now. But under Sir David (I'm used to writing "the manager of Manchester United, sir...") Moyes we stand a chance of (a) winning the European Cup and (b) remaining in the Premiership.
Wonder exactly when Martinez will depart for Barca?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Sorry Sir Kevin, Spurs to finish seventh.
That evil rat bastard AVB ruined our side by transferring Mr. Bale to what is arguably the world's greatest football side! Thank God, it's not Arsenal in 1st: one of my best friends at school is a Goonie!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
That evil rat bastard AVB ruined our side by transferring Mr. Bale to what is arguably the world's greatest football side!
I think it was Daniel Levy who did that, not AVB.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Well, given [Martinez] would have had to deal with an aging squad and one with some less than successful buys from previous seasons, I would suggest we would probably have been relegated by now.
Eh? Are you saying you think Martinez would be doing significantly worse than Moyes is with that ageing squad and the less than successful previous transfers?
Hasn't Martinez made his own, very positive mark at Everton really quickly, whereas Moyes at Man U has presided over a shockingly rapid transition from feared opponents to a team that others fancy they can get something from?
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I think it was Daniel Levy who did (the transfer) not AVB.
AVB, who had given the side a great start to the season weeks earlier, did not seem to have complained or even advised his bosses!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
I went to DC United's home opener when I was visiting a couple of weeks ago. Very pleasant spring weather, just a little nip in the air. United were woeful, but the refereeing was atrocious. Am I right in thinking that the league has a dispute with the refereeing union and so they've had to draft replacements in from various far-flung parts of central and southern America? That might explain it.
I'm looking forward to going to my first Whitecaps match sometime this season - assuming I can sort out ferries etc to get there. Watched both home matches live on TV; they look good - even with the ancient Kenny Miller and Nigel Reo-Coker in the team.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Hasn't Martinez made his own, very positive mark at Everton really quickly, whereas Moyes at Man U has presided over a shockingly rapid transition from feared opponents to a team that others fancy they can get something from?
Quite. In almost any other season, Martinez would be a shoo-in for manager of the season. Just his bad luck that (whatever happens in the next 6 matches) Brendan Rogers is undeniably manager of the season (and probably the decade) for what he has done at Liverpool this season.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Just his bad luck that (whatever happens in the next 6 matches) Brendan Rogers is undeniably manager of the season (and probably the decade) for what he has done at Liverpool this season.
Oh give me a break. He's got the two in form strikers in the league, and any manager could make them look good. The midfield is so-so. But the area where arguably the manager can make the biggest impact is organizing the defence, and Liverpool's back four are absolutely pony. They shipped three goals to Cardiff the other week. Three goals! To relegation-certainties Cardiff!! So Rodgers isn't good: he's just got lucky.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Timothy the Obscure
Mostly Friendly
# 292
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Posted
I don't know if it's worth trying to talk about MLS (that's Major League Soccer for you non-Muricans) on this thread, but I'm getting a sinking feeling about the Portland Timbers already. And what's with the officiating this year? Last year you pretty much had to use a firearm to get a yellow, and this year they're tossing red cards around like Mardi Gras beads...
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When you think of the long and gloomy history of man, you will find more hideous crimes have been committed in the name of obedience than have ever been committed in the name of rebellion.
- C. P. Snow
Posts: 6114 | From: PDX | Registered: May 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Oh give me a break. [Brendan Rodgers has] got the two in form strikers in the league, and any manager could make them look good. The midfield is so-so. But the area where arguably the manager can make the biggest impact is organizing the defence, and Liverpool's back four are absolutely pony. They shipped three goals to Cardiff the other week. Three goals! To relegation-certainties Cardiff!! So Rodgers isn't good: he's just got lucky.
I get what you mean, but two things in response: in Rodgers' time as manager, several Liverpool players have notably improved - in particular Sturridge, Henderson, Flanagan, Sterling. Also, Suarez seems fully committed to the Liverpool cause this season and remarkably free of cannibalistic tendencies. Rodgers is making his players better.
Secondly, I read somewhere that maybe Liverpool are scoring so many goals because they encourage their opponents to think they might get a goal or two. Yes, Cardiff scored three but Liverpool scored six. Six! You'd take a win by three clear goals, wouldn't you, against pretty much any opposition.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Ideally Everton will get the former, so we can make serious bids for Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu (sp?), and Manure the Europa Cup spot, so they will have fixture overload next year.
Aha, an Everton fan - tell me what you make of Roberto Martinez, would you? I thought Everton would struggle due to Martinez not being able to coach and organise a good defence at Wigan. But from what I've seen he's transformed Everton style-wise and retained their defensive qualities; perhaps at Wigan he was hamstrung by the relative lack of funds available.
Makes me wonder how Martinez would be getting on at Man U if they'd gone for him rather than Moyes...
An awfully long way upthread (possibly on the 2013 football thread) there were suggestions that Everton would be at the other end of the table as a result of Martinez messing around with the team. He's done what I hoped and you mention, namely to keep the defence pretty much intact and improve play upfield, thanks as much as anything to making Barkley central to the team and some very smart loan signings.
I'm still not sure about a place in Europe: the Mancs (spit) have a pretty easy run in, that fixture at Goodison apart, but if we do make it into the Champions League we will probably gift the title to Liverpool! There are worse teams that could win it.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Timothy the Obscure:
I don't know if it's worth trying to talk about MLS...
There's been some discussion of the MLS and the officiating in particular already. Various of us follow teams. So have at it. :-)
Closer to where I call home, Chelsea were incredibly disappointing in their Champions' League match against PSG last night. Sloppy defending, toothless attacking, and a massive striker-shaped hole up top meant that we never looked like taking anything from the game. We need a 2-0 win at home (highly unlikely because it's close to certain that PSG will score) or a 4-1 win (also impossible because there's no way we'll get that many) or a 3-1 win to take it to extra time and the crapshoot that this entails. Don't rate our chances. But stranger things have happened - we came back from the same scoreline two years ago to beat Napoli. So you never know. But since it's the hope that kills you, I'm taking the negative attitude.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Well, given [Martinez] would have had to deal with an aging squad and one with some less than successful buys from previous seasons, I would suggest we would probably have been relegated by now.
Eh? Are you saying you think Martinez would be doing significantly worse than Moyes is with that ageing squad and the less than successful previous transfers?
Hasn't Martinez made his own, very positive mark at Everton really quickly, whereas Moyes at Man U has presided over a shockingly rapid transition from feared opponents to a team that others fancy they can get something from?
Sorry haven't got back sooner.
Well, the Everton team that Martinez is having success with is in fact the Everton team put together by David Moyes! Martinez couldn't really go wrong.
David Moyes needs to rebuild the Manchester United team, and he will of course because he is a brilliant manager, otherwise why would Everton have kept him for ten years?
I've never regarded Martinez as anything special. Okay he won the FA Cup with Wigan, but also got them relgated - hardly the mark of a tactical genius. At the moment he is reaping the rewards of David Moyes tenure, and I admit, exploiting it very well.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I don't think that logic stands up at all.
For starters, there have been some fairly key changes in personnel at Everton: Fellaini, Neville, Anichebe, Jelavic, Heitinga all left; Lukaku, McCarthy, Deulofeu, Koné in. Ross Barkley backed to make it in the first team as well. So it's hard to claim that the squad hasn't changed much.
And by your logic, Moyes inherited a team who won the league by miles, so given that the playing staff is essentially the same at Old Trafford, they should be walking it again. Evidence suggests otherwise. And United have changed from a basically attacking, proactive team into a basically reactive team. How the mighty fall!
Meanwhile, Martinez has made important positive changes to how Everton play, is two points away from getting their highest ever Premier League tally, and has a real chance of getting them into the Champions' League qualifying round for the first time since 2004/5. I'm not claiming that Martinez is the best manager in the world, or that he hasn't still got plenty to learn. But if I had the choice between David "Negative" Moyes and Roberto "Let's give it a go" Martinez, I know which I'd choose every single time.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
Just his bad luck that (whatever happens in the next 6 matches) Brendan Rogers is undeniably manager of the season (and probably the decade) for what he has done at Liverpool this season.
Oh give me a break. He's got the two in form strikers in the league, and any manager could make them look good. The midfield is so-so. But the area where arguably the manager can make the biggest impact is organizing the defence, and Liverpool's back four are absolutely pony. They shipped three goals to Cardiff the other week. Three goals! To relegation-certainties Cardiff!! So Rodgers isn't good: he's just got lucky.
Hmm, well Suárez works more or less straight out of the box, but how many was Sturridge scoring per season at Chelsea? The midfield could be improved but is miles better than under Dalglish despite fielding largely the same players. The defence has relatively declined but it's also suffered extensive injuries plus the loss of Reina and Carragher, who as keeper and vice captain were effectively its NCO's (ok the loss of Reina was Rodgers' decision but even so).
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And by your logic, Moyes inherited a team who won the league by miles, so given that the playing staff is essentially the same at Old Trafford, they should be walking it again. Evidence suggests otherwise. And United have changed from a basically attacking, proactive team into a basically reactive team. How the mighty fall!
Oh yes, fallen majestically to nothing…
We have lost more away fixtures than any other team… oh sorry, WON more away fixtures than any other team.
Are miles away from Everton in the PL… oh sorry, one place below them.
Have a tough run in against Man City and Man Utd… oh sorry, that would be Everton.
If we win all our matches and therefore Everton lose to us, and also lose to City and one other from their run in (Soton, Palace, Hull) then we go above them into a Europa League spot (which we’ll probably get anyway as Arsenal will want to win the FA Cup leaving an extra spot free).
It’s football and nothing is certain except that a fifth place finish isn’t impossible and won’t be a bad effort with probably the oldest squad in the PL (certainly of the top half dozen teams), a significant change of manager, and a bad run of injuries for quite a few senior players.
I’ll take that for this season. Of course Spurs could bugger it up with a game in hand, but from the last few matches we are on the up and they are falling away. Come on Sunderland!
Besides, we might yet win the European Cup! Bayern? Shit ground no fans!!
[ 07. April 2014, 12:46: Message edited by: deano ]
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It’s football and nothing is certain except that a fifth place finish isn’t impossible and won’t be a bad effort with probably the oldest squad in the PL (certainly of the top half dozen teams), a significant change of manager, and a bad run of injuries for quite a few senior players.
I’ll take that for this season.
You'd really accept that? Fifth place, if you finish the season well? With the same squad (plus Fellaini and Mata) that won the League at a canter last season? How the mighty have fallen...
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
It’s football and nothing is certain except that a fifth place finish isn’t impossible and won’t be a bad effort with probably the oldest squad in the PL (certainly of the top half dozen teams), a significant change of manager, and a bad run of injuries for quite a few senior players.
I’ll take that for this season.
You'd really accept that? Fifth place, if you finish the season well? With the same squad (plus Fellaini and Mata) that won the League at a canter last season? How the mighty have fallen...
Yep. Serously, with the we-hate-man-yoo-glasses removed, how many people actually, truly believed a change of manager from Sir Alex Ferguson would be a seamless smooth transition? He was Manchaster United and whoever followed him would have very big boots to fill.
Yes, I will take fifth. Next year it will be better, the season after that better still.
Wenger will be retiring at some point and Arsenal will have to go through the same process.
Abramovich and The Special Twat will have an inevitable falling out and then they'll be looking for a new manager.
Everton, Spurs? Same as for the last eleventy years mostly mid-table obscurity. The odd Europa league spot and the league cup now and then.
Man City? When they don't win trophy's they'll throw that miserable git out and that leaves...
Liverpool! The auld enemy. They are our challenge, but beating them time after time in the league over the NEXT twenty years will be worth waiting for. They're going to have to replace players who are getting a bit long in the tooth as well, so it won't be plain sailing for them.
So yes, I can accept fifth. I can accept a Europa League spot. Most proper fans can. Those of us who can't afford to rent a plane with a banner simply get on with cheering the manager in and supporting the team through this transitionary period. It seems to be working.
Manchester United are the biggest club in the world (despite claims from other "pretenders"), and we take the long view. Yes it hurts a bit now, but some of us remember Sir Alex's first few seasons, and so realise that what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. We ain't dead, just healing!
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
I agree, deano, that there was always going to be a dip from the heights that Fergie hauled Man Utd to. It's the extent of the dip, nay plummet, that has surprised me and I don't share your expectation that it'll all be much better next season. Moyes has clearly shown himself to be not adequate for the task, IMO.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
I agree, deano, that there was always going to be a dip from the heights that Fergie hauled Man Utd to. It's the extent of the dip, nay plummet, that has surprised me and I don't share your expectation that it'll all be much better next season. Moyes has clearly shown himself to be not adequate for the task, IMO.
Well, I'm old enough to remember that banners at Old Trafford are not new, nor do I consider it a "plummet"...
quote:
Following this and an early season run of six defeats and two draws in eight games, a banner declaring "Three years of excuses and it's still crap ... ta-ra Fergie." was displayed at Old Trafford, and many journalists and supporters called for Ferguson to be sacked.[51][52] Ferguson later described December 1989 as "the darkest period [he had] ever suffered in the game", as United ended the decade just outside the relegation zone.
From Wikipedia
Like I say, we take the long view.
In fact one might argue that "Fergie's banner" marked the beginning of the Glory Years™ for us, and that for David Moyes to get "his" banner - and from a plane no less - in his first season is a mark of good things to come!
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Sure, I know Fergie didn't have instant success when he took over at Old Trafford. But neither did he guide the team in his first season to a finish far worse than the previous one.
I do appreciate your desire to avoid snap, knee-jerk judgements and decisions, I really do. But the board at Man U have to judge whether Moyes will come good if given time to bed in and shape the team / squad / club as he feels best, or whether he's simply out of his depth. I think it's the latter.
Look at what Rodgers and Martinez are doing - they've given their players greater self-belief and they've produced teams that play attractive, winning football. What is Moyes doing?
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
I'm not that good with English football history, but tell me, by how many points did Fergie's predecessor win the league before Sir Alex took over the very same squad plus a £30 million signing and failing miserably at it?
I would also say that whereas your supportership or views may not have changed that much over the last 25 years, the degree to which money determines the final table sure has increased - which has also meant that the viscosity of the table has plummeted. Mind you, during Liverpool's recent time of decay, they still usually remained a top 5 team. Up to a month ago, I wasn't sure Man U would make it to the Europa League. I could see Southampton ahead of them at the end of the season. That would be, with all the changes the world has gone through since 1989, sensational. I think that's the point of calling Moyes a failure.
I'm also not sure Moyes will ever become a Busby or a Ferguson - however right now another young British manager is fighting for the title with a team without expensive signings or decent squad or league position from last year. He only had to take over from Kenny Dalglish's failure, so I suppose that was an easier task than taking over a victorious Man U, right?
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Personally, I'd love it if you hang on to Moyes. I don't think he's even remotely close to "United quality". Willing to be proven wrong though.
And, for the record, I don't exactly hate United - I don't really have any emotional response to them (and hate is an emotion, right?) I quite dislike how successful you've been, and I do find there's a certain way that Ya-nigh-tid fans get up your nose that adds to the Schadenfreude that's currently going around. But at the same time I rather respect what old Rednose achieved while he was there.
But I will ask you this: Where were the Glaziers when United were being patient at the beginning of Ferguson's reign? The world's moved on a fair way since then.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Apropos famous Scots, did anyone notice that Raith Rovers won the Ramsdens Cup, beating the mighty Rangers in the final! OK, the SPL clubs don't compete but given Rangers resources and their league record this year (p 31, w 29, d2), it's quite a feat.
Meanwhile in Sicily, Catania have sacked the same boss for the second time this season.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Just finished watching Monday's Spurs Match - player of the week should be Kane! Would that we could have scored 5 against one of the top four earlier this season....
![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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