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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: World Cup 2014: The truly global party
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
We've done it before,
We've done it beefooooooooorrre,
Champions of Europe,
We've done it before.
Get in there Chelsea!! What a game.
Anyone think Ya-nigh-tid will be able to pull of something similar in Munich?
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
We've done it before,
We've done it beefooooooooorrre,
Champions of Europe,
We've done it before.
Get in there Chelsea!! What a game.
Anyone think Ya-nigh-tid will be able to pull of something similar in Munich?
Ahem... well it will be a big ask, but it's a game of two halves and at the end of the day it's a game of chance anyway and strange, miracoulous things do happen... Brian.
Coooome oooooon yoooooou reeee-eeeds!
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
I for one am going to feel cheated if we don't see Chelsea and Real match up at some point in the CL, just for the Mourinho pre-game pressers. I'd prefer the semis, as I'm pulling for Atletico to pull the upset at this point.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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pjl
Shipmate
# 16929
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Posted
Thought Atletico had an amazing opening 18 minutes, could have been 4-0 but for the woodwork.
Very good team.
Posts: 576 | From: england | Registered: Feb 2012
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
I hate Arjen Robben! He frightened me every time he got the ball. It was the same in teh first leg and when they played the gooners.
Jeez he's good. For my money he is arguably the best right winger in the game today and I reckon Chelsea made a big mistake in getting rid of him.
Not only is he brilliant on the ball, he also dives very well, which is another string to his bow!!
Oh well, Legia Warsaw next season. Still, the Europa League isn't too bad... is it?
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Not only is he brilliant on the ball, he also dives very well, which is another string to his bow!!
So I take it he's what Danny Welbeck could be if he only upped his ball-handling skills, then. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
Posts: 851 | From: Proud Socialist Monarchy of Sweden | Registered: May 2009
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by JFH:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Not only is he brilliant on the ball, he also dives very well, which is another string to his bow!!
So I take it he's what Danny Welbeck could be if he only upped his ball-handling skills, then.
Nah, he's not in the same class. Rooney is getting better though. It was a nice irony to see Schweinsteiger banned when he fouled Our Wayne.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I reckon Chelsea made a big mistake in getting rid of him.
Me too.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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deano
princess
# 12063
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Posted
Looks like Chelsea have had a slice of luck in the European Cup draw. They've got Athletico Madrid, the jammy sods.
EUFA have also said Thibaut Courtois - who is on loan from Chelsea to AM - can play and said any private contract between the club is "null, void and unenforcable".
I suppose Chelsea have the option of recalling him as needed to play in the Chelsea team.
The whole thing smacks of a legal minefield here. I suppose some sort of gentleman's agreement will be worked out. Pity, I would love to see Chelsea tied up in court proceedings.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
Posts: 2118 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: Nov 2006
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Looks like Chelsea have had a slice of luck in the European Cup draw. They've got Athletico Madrid, the jammy sods.
I actually think that this isn't as big an advantage as you make out. Watching Bayern play two legs against United, I have to say I wasn't impressed. We've shown in the past that we know how to handle the Pep/Barca tikka-takka and that was Bayern all over. I would really have fancied our chances against them.
Atlético on the other hand are all energy, muscle, and are (frankly) quite English. Diego Costa and Courtois are not bad, either, and Simone is a manager that you shouldn't take lightly. Atlético have sustained a season-long challenge to Real and Barca in La Liga, and their win over Barca in the quarters was fully deserved. So I think this will be a stern test.
If there was one good thing to come out of the draw, it was the fact that we play the away leg first, then come back to the Bridge to (hopefully) finish it off.
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
EUFA have also said Thibaut Courtois - who is on loan from Chelsea to AM - can play and said any private contract between the club is "null, void and unenforcable".
I've been following this saga as it's been developing. I can see arguments both ways, but I think, at the end of the day, that it is better if he is allowed to play. The obvious counter-argument is, of course, the possibility for a parent club to exert pressure on their loanee to have a "bad game" just when it matters. But Courtois' relationship with Chelsea has been a little strained for a while, so I think there may be a few twists in this tale yet.
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I suppose Chelsea have the option of recalling him as needed to play in the Chelsea team.
No, the terms of his loan agreement is that it was for the full season with no option of recall.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I love deano's idea of a "gentleman's agreement". In football? I think Jimmy Armfield is football's last surviving gentleman and he's pushing eighty with a short stick.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
20 minutes to go and Millwall have equalised against Watford. Maybe we will survive in this league. I daren't look at the news for a bit. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
On one hand I'm disappointed that Arsenal have beaten Wigan to reach the FA Cup final. On the other, this rare chance of laying their hands on some silverware may take their attention off the Premier League for a couple of games, which will do no harm to our chances of qualifying for the Champions League.
Come on you blues! We'll take one-nils thanks to own goals. Especially an OG by former Mancs ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
Thank God, Arsenal are no longer in the top four!
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Thank God, Arsenal are no longer in the top four!
Sorry Sir K. They beat West Ham last night (15th April) to go ahead of Everton.
That said, Everton play Crystal Palace at Goodison Park tonight and we have hopes that normal service will be resumed. It won't be a feast of football though, with Palace managed by Tony Pulis.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Thank God, Arsenal are no longer in the top four!
Sorry Sir K. They beat West Ham last night (15th April) to go ahead of Everton.
Thank you for restoring normality. For a moment I feared we'd slipped into a parallel world where the scum won.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I think disliking West Ham is something that supporters of all other London clubs can unite around. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Oh. Shit.
Losing at home to Palace?
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Oh. Shit.
Losing at home to Palace?
Tony Pulis, miracle worker... Shame, as I'd really quite like to see Everton finish fourth. I'm a big fan of Martinez.
The other result was good for me, being a Liverpool fan. ISTM a draw with Chelsea would now probably be good enough for Liverpool, seeing as Man City are six points further back with just one game in hand. Rodgers taking them from seventh last season to winning the Prem this season would be a stunning achievement, IMO!
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Thanks South Coast Kevin, I hoped after the Arsenal result we could continue but seven wins is a good run. The Man City draw does Liverpool no harm at all and it just looks like you want that title more! Keep it up, I don't think too many Toffees will resent it, especially if we get fourth.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Yeah, good times for Merseyside football! Two excellent, forward-thinking young managers, and two fine teams. My main team, Southampton, are also very much on the up...
It's okay to support two Premier League teams, right?!
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Tony Pulis, miracle worker... Shame, as I'd really quite like to see Everton finish fourth. I'm a big fan of Martinez.
The other result was good for me, being a Liverpool fan. ISTM a draw with Chelsea would now probably be good enough for Liverpool, seeing as Man City are six points further back with just one game in hand. Rodgers taking them from seventh last season to winning the Prem this season would be a stunning achievement, IMO!
Considering where they were when he took over, Pulis has done an amazing job. I hated the style of football he produced at Stoke, but there is no denying that he is effective.
The Man City result effectively means that it is now down to Chelski and Liverpool - especially now that Yaya Toure is out for a couple of weeks. City now have to rely on Chelsea AND Liverpool slipping up.
This makes Chelsea's visit to Anfield very interesting. Liverpool would be content with a draw. Chelsea know that a win would give them the upper hand - but equally, a defeat means that they lose almost all hope of catching Liverpool. Do they dare play for a win and leave themselves open to the Liverpool counter-attack machine? Or does Mourinho park the bus and hope to frustrate Liverpool into a mistake?
And what effect will being in the Champions League semi finals have? Does Mourinho give priority to beating Atletico Madrid? Or does he go hell for leather to win the Premiership, even if that messes with the Champions League?
FWIW, I think that Mourinho will quietly give more emphasis on the CL. Atletico Madrid are beatable and once into the final, anything can happen in a one off game against Real or Bayern. I don't think he has the players to go full out on both fronts. So, Mourinho to park the bus at Anfield and hope for the best.
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Yeah, good times for Merseyside football! Two excellent, forward-thinking young managers, and two fine teams. My main team, Southampton, are also very much on the up...
It's okay to support two Premier League teams, right?!
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
Have you never read Fever Pitch?
Nick Hornby makes it clear that you might divorce your wife and marry someone else, but you can't do that with football teams. At the most, you can support two teams who will never meet (barring a bizarre FA Cup draw). So Liverpool and someone from the Conference (or League 2 may be) would be OK. Or you can support one and have a sneaky (yet utterly unfaithful) dalliance with the other, as long as you keep it a deep dark and dirty secret.
(Unless, of course, you are a ManU "supporter". Then you can choose whoever else you want, on the grounds that you should be allowed to support at least one proper football team)
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
This makes Chelsea's visit to Anfield very interesting. Liverpool would be content with a draw. Chelsea know that a win would give them the upper hand - but equally, a defeat means that they lose almost all hope of catching Liverpool. Do they dare play for a win and leave themselves open to the Liverpool counter-attack machine? Or does Mourinho park the bus and hope to frustrate Liverpool into a mistake?
Hmm, interesting. I kind of hope Mourinho does go for it at Anfield rather than parking the bus (love that phrase!) and prioritising the Champions League. I do fancy Liverpool's chances of winning on the counter-attack.
But then a draw really ought to be enough for the Reds so, hey, what do I care if Chelsea just play for a draw? Could this really be Liverpool's year?
On a separate note, what would everyone's England first team be on current form? There's a strong case for it being full of Liverpool and Saints players, IMO. ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
Sturridge
Sterling Lallana Rooney
Gerrard Henderson
Baines Jagielka Cahill Clyne
Hart
Just missing out - Shaw, Barkley, Lambert and the horribly unlucky Rodriguez.
EDIT - Ha, yes I have read (and watched) Fever Pitch! To be fair, I am a completely plastic Liverpool fan, albeit a loyal one. I've never even been to the city, let alone to Anfield itself.
[ 16. April 2014, 22:45: Message edited by: South Coast Kevin ]
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Most people have a #2 team and my home town team filled that role. It wasn't a problem (because in my early football-following days Blackpool were crap - again a one-man team; anyone remember Tony Green?) until a few years ago when they unexpectedly made it to the Premier League.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Sir Kevin:
Thank God, Arsenal are no longer in the top four!
Sorry Sir K. They beat West Ham last night (15th April) to go ahead of Everton.
SHITE! I rather have a wee bit of an affinity for Everton: Apparently, they have a keeper from the US. This bloke I spoke with at a trade show said one of his mates at school is in that job.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
You all seem to forget that playing two games a week, all high pressure, in the latter stages of important competitions is what Chelsea are used to these days. Playing Atlético, Liverpool, Atlético won't faze the players or Jose.
And we have the added advantage that a couple of our in-form players are cup-tied from the Champions' League and will therefore be nice and fresh come our trip to Anfield. I honestly expect Suarez to disappear into Matić's back pocket for the full ninety minutes. And Henderson will be suspended, and I think Danny Boy is out with an injury (although I may have that wrong). And do you honestly think that Stevie Me can keep up with the pace of Hazard and Willian? That's a big ask.
I know that sounds bullish - I'm not actually quite that confident. But I'm fairly confident we can make a proper game of it by going to play our natural counter-attacking game. I expect that Liverpool will come flying out of the blocks in a frenzy of pent-up anticipation and adrenaline. If we're still in the game after 25 minutes, I reckon we've got a very good chance. Equally, there is a chance that we'll concede two early goals and never be in it.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And we have the added advantage that a couple of our in-form players are cup-tied from the Champions' League and will therefore be nice and fresh come our trip to Anfield. I honestly expect Suarez to disappear into Matić's back pocket for the full ninety minutes. And Henderson will be suspended, and I think Danny Boy is out with an injury (although I may have that wrong). And do you honestly think that Stevie Me can keep up with the pace of Hazard and Willian? That's a big ask.
They're saying Sturridge might even be fit for this weekend, so I expect he'll be okay for the visit of your lot. Unless Liverpool are pulling the wool over our eyes, of course...
Good point about Matic and Salah. But still, I fancy Suarez, Sterling, Coutinho and Sturridge to have some fun with your centre-backs. Anyway, an epic game awaits. Bring it on!
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Chelsea and Liverpool will draw, There will be a refereeing controversy that one manager will claim should (or shouldn't) have been a penalty while the other will say he didn't see it.
Much like any other Premier League game. ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Southampton's Adam Lallana is on the shortlist for PFA player of the year; look! I know he won't win but to be nominated when your team will finish 8th or 9th is pretty impressive.
I was wondering exactly how impressive and, while I couldn't find a list of previous years' nominees, searching back a few years I see that apparently Charlie Adam (then of Blackpool) was nominated in 2011. Which rather surprises me; did he really have that good a season?
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Yeah, he had one good season for them, passed the ball around nicely, and was briefly England's Next Best Hope™. Then he was bought by Liverpool and they put him back in touch with his Neanderthal roots. Now he's just a thug.
But as for the award itself, surely Suarez is odds-on to win?
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Yeah, he had one good season for them, passed the ball around nicely, and was briefly England's Next Best Hope™.
Yikes. Wonder who we'll all look back on in five years' time in the same way. Aha, a couple of seconds' thought reveals to me that the answer is clearly Andros Townsend.
And, yes, I expect it'll be Suarez for PFA Player of the Year. What about Young Player, though? The nominees are Hazard, Sturridge, Shaw, Ramsey, Barkley and Sterling.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Yeah, he had one good season for them, passed the ball around nicely, and was briefly England's Next Best Hope™. Then he was bought by Liverpool and they put him back in touch with his Neanderthal roots. Now he's just a thug.
Adam was never England's Next Best Hope™. He is Scottish and he wasn't even their best hope.
As for player of the year isn't Seamus Coleman worth a call? Not much chance of that though as just four defenders and two goalkeepers have been player of the year, in 40 years, and none of them were full-backs.
I wouldn't give the Young Player Award to Everton's Ross Barkley. He's going to be very good but he's a bit of a show off. John Stones is more deserving - he might be raw but we have a better record when he plays than when Phil Jagielka is in the team!
[ 18. April 2014, 21:29: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Adam was never England's Next Best Hope™. He is Scottish and he wasn't even their best hope.
Ooops!
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
As for player of the year isn't Seamus Coleman worth a call? Not much chance of that though as just four defenders and two goalkeepers have been player of the year, in 40 years, and none of them were full-backs.
Full-backs do get criminally ignored, don't they? Maybe Southampton will change that with Shaw (having a great game today, BBC Radio Solent are saying), Clyne and Chambers!
Oh, and an oops from me too regarding Charlie Adam's nationality; I also forgot he was Scottish.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
Millwall win again! May survive the league. 6-pointer on Monday. So far they win when I'm not watching.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Gutting.
Not so much that our chances for the Premiership are flushed down the toilet because I never thought we would win it.
But Jose's unbeaten record in home league games has gone.
That's really, really gutting.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Have Sunderland just, in effect, gifted the title to Liverpool? What a shocker that result tonight is, and what an exciting, twisty-turny season it's been! Odds on Liverpool freezing tomorrow, as they realise they really might end the 25 year wait for a league title?
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Have Sunderland just, in effect, gifted the title to Liverpool?
By my calculations it doesn't make much difference. Assuming all top three teams win all their other games: if Liverpool win or draw against Chelsea, they win the league, and if they lose, City win on goal difference. Which was the situation before the weekend as well.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
Yes, I think you're right, Ricardus. Although, of course, if Man City drop any more points (which they might) then Liverpool can afford either to (a) lose to Chelsea and win out, or (b) draw with or beat Chelsea and drop some points elsewhere (e.g. at Magic Tony Pulis' place).
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Before this weekend, Chelsea also had their destiny in their own hands. Now they don't. That's a pretty large difference to my (obviously biased!) point of view.
As for Palace - they're now mathematically safe from relegation so I fully expect them to mentally be on the beach from here on in.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
As for Palace - they're now mathematically safe from relegation so I fully expect them to mentally be on the beach from here on in.
Not with Tony Pulis in charge they won't be!
[ 21. April 2014, 11:49: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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I hope you're right Sioni.
In other news, the realities of Modern Football™ has finally reached Old Trafford as the Glaziers sack Moyes, but have to wait for the stock exchange to open before they do. I don't have any great love for Moyes, but I think it's a bit shabby for them to brief one evening, offer no comment on the story, and wait until morning to make it official.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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deano
princess
# 12063
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I think it was a poor decision. As far as I'm concerned Moyes was the right man for the job but he should have been given two or three seasons. You don't become a bad manager overnight and he was far from a bad manager.
Some say he lost the dressing room, to which I say well get rid of those players. Ferguson never stood for any player thinking they were bigger than the manager; Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo, Hughes and quite a few others all thought they could bring player-power to bear but Ferguson quite rightly got rid of them. Moyes needed the chance to do the same. The club is bigger than the manager and the manager should be bigger than the players.
I would rather we had two or three poor seasons whilst the team was rebuilt and then dominate for the next twenty, but it looks like we are now going to be another one of those clubs like Man City and Chelsea who panic afer a couple of losses, sack the manager and win something every couple of seasons or so. It's a poor trade off but if that's the case we need to do it properly, open the cheque book and prise either Guardiola from Bayern or José Mourinho from Chelsea.
Shabby and wrong. I never bought into the "Glazers Out" campaign. We were winning and successful and it if ain't broke, don't fix it, but this decision does give me some sympathy for those fans.
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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
I think it was a poor decision. As far as I'm concerned Moyes was the right man for the job but he should have been given two or three seasons. You don't become a bad manager overnight and he was far from a bad manager.
But he looked utterly overawed by the challenge! Managing a team with limited finances and limited ambition (albeit higher than most teams') is totally different from managing one of the biggest clubs in the world, and Moyes looked (IMO) totally unsuited to the latter role. He talked and acted as if Man U were the new upstarts seeking to hang on to the coat-tails of the big boys like Chelsea and Man City. Man U, last season's champions by some distance, lest we forget...
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Some say he lost the dressing room, to which I say well get rid of those players. Ferguson never stood for any player thinking they were bigger than the manager; Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo, Hughes and quite a few others all thought they could bring player-power to bear but Ferguson quite rightly got rid of them. Moyes needed the chance to do the same. The club is bigger than the manager and the manager should be bigger than the players.
In principle, I agree, and it can work in practice if you're talking about one or two players (although if said player is David Beckham, it still takes serious courage to hoof them out). But what do you do if half the team is not on board with the manager's approach and tactics? Ship out the lot of them and rebuild, or pay off the manager and try again? ISTM the latter is always likely to make more sense.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Some say he lost the dressing room, to which I say well get rid of those players. Ferguson never stood for any player thinking they were bigger than the manager; Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo, Hughes and quite a few others all thought they could bring player-power to bear but Ferguson quite rightly got rid of them. Moyes needed the chance to do the same. The club is bigger than the manager and the manager should be bigger than the players.
In principle, I agree, and it can work in practice if you're talking about one or two players (although if said player is David Beckham, it still takes serious courage to hoof them out). But what do you do if half the team is not on board with the manager's approach and tactics? Ship out the lot of them and rebuild, or pay off the manager and try again? ISTM the latter is always likely to make more sense.
My view is that many in the dressing room are there on borrowed time: some are past it, some aren't ever going to make it and some look lost now that SAF is gone. Many went to MUFC entirely because of him so any change would be a wrench. Moyes could have disposed of the has-beens (Evra, Young, Carrick, Ferdinand) and never-will-bes (Cleverley, Smalling, Welbeck) but that wouldn't have left much. I reckon they will have to spend about £150 million if they want to win anything next year.
Anyway, I expect the next manager will get at least the whole of next season no matter what happens, which in a way will show that Moyes' sacking was hurried and unnecessary.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Some say he lost the dressing room, to which I say well get rid of those players. Ferguson never stood for any player thinking they were bigger than the manager; Keane, Beckham, Ronaldo, Hughes and quite a few others all thought they could bring player-power to bear but Ferguson quite rightly got rid of them. Moyes needed the chance to do the same. The club is bigger than the manager and the manager should be bigger than the players.
Given that the Glaziers only seem to be interested in taking money out of the club, and given that shipping a load of players out necessitates spending money to replace them, I rather doubt that this was an acceptable option to them.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
I thought that Moyes looked out of his depth; and his tactical awareness struck me as either naive or over-cautious.
Having said that, it is really a poisoned chalice, and the next manager may end up shipping out half the players, in order to build his own team.
And the Glazers - oh hell. I wonder if all that debt is going to explode one day, and Man Utd are docked ten points!
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
It all raises a really interesting question, I think. How to follow a legend. As the owners, do you try to find a natural successor in the image of the departed great, or someone who will make their own clear mark; and as the successor, do you adopt a 'steady as she goes' approach or deliberately distance yourself from the one whose big shoes you are trying to fill?
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