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Source: (consider it) Thread: Rev. BBC2
ExclamationMark
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# 14715

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.
Interchangeable terms - established = state
No they aren't. Germany, Sweden and Norway have a state church and they pay state taxes.

England and Scotland have churches 'by law established'.

Who establishes the law - why, the state.
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Meerkat

Suricata suricatta
# 16117

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Rolyn... I had almost forgotten that we never saw Mrs. Mainwaring throughout the whole series. We almost came close, once, I think... I wonder if she looked like Mrs. 'Bucket'?

The joys of simple enjoyable progs like that and 'Summer Wine', eh? Silly; predictable... but that was the appeal for me!

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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128

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Well, we did see the bulge of her bum in the upper bunk ... and I think we saw an ankle once (or am I getting confused with Nora Batty in early episodes of "Last of the Summer Wine")?

Of course, Mrs. M. was often on the phone, although we only heard her husband's side of the conversations!

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Spike

Mostly Harmless
# 36

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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
And where had the Miles Jupp character been for two mysterious days?

More to the point, why does Nigel always seem to be hanging around the church? Doesn't he have a job?

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Niminypiminy
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# 15489

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And wouldn't they actually use childcare rather than have their baby in her pushchair all day? (Not to mention being given spirits by Colin, which I can't bring myself to find funny)

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Not

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# 2166

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It wasn't a very funny episode, but still lots of painfully real moments. Yes, the ending was overblown and unlikely, but how vividly it showed that hypersensitivity of a guilty conscience. Yes, Colin giving Katie spirits wasn't funny, but that's the line Adam walks all the time with Colin - he's loveable and loyal and kind, but he crosses the boundaries of the acceptable all the time, (the drug money in the first episode raised it too). And that leaves Adam dangling on a middle class niceness v moral boundaries v solidarity with Colin dilemma all the time. So Colin's plea to be a godparent has real poignancy. It would be a massive step of acceptance and trust - but he can't actually be trusted...

Probably overthinking - but it's not often I'm still nagged at and moved by and thinking about a sitcom a day later - even in its weaker episodes.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
And wouldn't they actually use childcare rather than have their baby in her pushchair all day? (Not to mention being given spirits by Colin, which I can't bring myself to find funny)

Colins treatment of Katie(?) wasn't funny, but was insight into his nature. He swears and drinks because it is normal. He gives Katie a drink because it will shut her up. In his logic, it makes sense.

Its just his logic is fatally flawed. It is amusing? poignant? because it reflects his sense of appropriateness.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I liked it. It was depressing, sure, and the sexual tension between Adam and Ellie had been obvious since the beginning. I didn't think that the car park scene was particularly slapstick; I think that misses the point completely.

That was my take too . The scene where the jerks chucked litter out of the car in the face of a community litter pick-up was well worked because it was set up earlier with just Adam.
Newly divorced despondent Ellie was triggered into showing true mettle , (as so often a woman can out perform a man in those type of situations). This is what set the scene for Adam to fall from grace and cross the line which led adultery.

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not entirely me
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# 17637

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I think Ellie has developed realistically as a character. In the first series she was so in control, then in the 2nd her partner died, in the 3rd she's divorced and lonely and sad. As Adam and Alex get to know her more her vulnerability, strength and loneliness all come across more and more.
I think in this episode they pushed both Colin and Mick to display desperation but we've already seen glimpses of this before now.
& Adam has been prone to both "man-crushes" and jealousy so his bizarre connection with the artist didn't seem too strange.
But then I fell in love with them all in the first series so I've watched this one with a strong prior bias.

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Rosa Winkel

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# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:

Newly divorced despondent Ellie was triggered into showing true mettle , (as so often a woman can out perform a man in those type of situations).

I daresay the reaction of the lads in the car would have been different if a man would have thrown the rubbish at them.

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Eirenist
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# 13343

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No it wouldn't Rosa - except probably more violent!

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Frankly My Dear
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# 18072

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Oh dear. That last one was the first duff episode of the show's entire history. Adam pushing over and breaking the artwork at the end struck a massive false note - He is simply not that petulant and foolish a person, even in the midst of his guilt-trip, to go quite that far, and do something with such obviously perillous consequences.
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Ariel
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# 58

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Hello, and welcome aboard, Frankly My Dear! Hope you enjoy being on the site. Take some time to look around, and be sure to check out the board intros, as each board works a bit differently to the others.

You'd also be welcome to post a little about yourself on the introductions thread for new people - it's not compulsory, but the denizens are friendly and will be happy to greet you.

Cheers

Ariel
Heaven Host

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
in which case the state church is truly doomed.

Good job we have an established church then, and not a state church.
Interchangeable terms - established = state
No they aren't. Germany, Sweden and Norway have a state church and they pay state taxes.

England and Scotland have churches 'by law established'.

Who establishes the law - why, the state.
You are still missing the point - but this is a tangent.

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Frankly My Dear:
Oh dear. That last one was the first duff episode of the show's entire history. Adam pushing over and breaking the artwork at the end struck a massive false note - He is simply not that petulant and foolish a person, even in the midst of his guilt-trip, to go quite that far, and do something with such obviously perillous consequences.

I don't think it was a result of petulance - more like a mental breakdown bought on by guilt.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by Frankly My Dear:
Oh dear. That last one was the first duff episode of the show's entire history. Adam pushing over and breaking the artwork at the end struck a massive false note - He is simply not that petulant and foolish a person, even in the midst of his guilt-trip, to go quite that far, and do something with such obviously perilous consequences.

I am thinking back to the party at the end of series 1 (one of the best episodes of drama I have ever seen), and I reckon that Adam would be that petulant, if he is pushed - and he was being pushed, from all sides for all sorts of reasons.

And welcome FMD.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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I quite understand the thinking that says Adam climbing on to the rostrum and pushing the statue over was OTT .
Yet what followed had me laughing to tears, which is unusual for me at the best of times . It was what someone said up-thread about the 'hypersensitivity over guilt' that made the whole scene work . Adam quickly put 2 and 2 together and came up with about 22 plus . Making out his Church had been desecrated , whereas the real desecration was going on in his head.

The look on the Archdeacon's face, Nigel realising the 60k had clearly gone west . Best of all Colin retrieving the head off the broken statue, with his childlike expression of wanting to please and protect Adam , saying -- it's alright Vicarage it's not your face on it.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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rolyn
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# 16840

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OK, I'm coming out as a Rev obsessive .
I watched the *marmite* episode again last night. [Hot and Hormonal]

Maybe the reason it missed to a proportion of viewers was that if the sexual tension theme didn't come through from early on , then bits like Mick coming to the door dressed as 'Sonata' just looked plain silly.

Returning to the end scene . It wasn't really only Colin , but all Adam's friends and associates gently trying to tell him he'd been a dick . Which I guess is what friends and associates are for when it come to it.

This Rev fan now eagerly awaits next Monday's episode . Although I doubt it is Hollander's intention to turn the show into a kind of Rev. Street. If , as rumour has it, there will be no more when this series ends ? I suppose we'll just have to accept it.
[Waterworks] [Waterworks]

[ 12. April 2014, 10:03: Message edited by: rolyn ]

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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As I understood it, there were no more planned. That means there may or may not be another series - and it might depend on actors availability.

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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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I just watched this episode on i-player. It seems to be a comedy on male dis-empowerment - I haven't seen many of these, so perhaps that's very much a statement of the obvious. It's hard to imagine Adam throwing a lot of litter into that car and not getting his head kicked in - but easier to imagine a woman getting away with it. And it would be hard to imagine Adam's wife asking him a plaintive 'darling, do you not find me attractive any more?' and him saying 'not really - but why don't you go after that slightly mad guy on the street who just made a sexually aggressive and rather disturbing pass at you; he'll sort you out' - followed shortly by a cheering rapprochement where he says 'sorry I've been a bit off dear - hard day' and she falls gratefully into his arms with a loving smile. Whereas the comedy works just about, the way round it is - at least, it is not deeply incongruous.

This could all be me doing what Adam does at the end - reading his own problems into a piece of art which is not about him at all...

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(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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I'm surprised to see several people who didn't like Monday's episode, to me it came across as the most painfully real so far. Several of the storylines have had me thinking 'well, I suppose it could happen in London', but the personal relationships I've seen played out this week are real all over the country, in rural as well as inner city situations. Sadly.

Perhaps people are expecting it to be a laugh-a-minute comedy, whereas it's really a poignant look at life, rather in the vein of 'Roger and Val have just got in'.

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Paul.
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# 37

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quote:
Originally posted by Chorister:
Perhaps people are expecting it to be a laugh-a-minute comedy, whereas it's really a poignant look at life, rather in the vein of 'Roger and Val have just got in'.

High praise. Love that show!
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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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Chorister - yes Roger and Val is a similar sense of poignancy and humour.

I suppose seeing it as male dis-empowerment is quite interesting. It works for me, partly.

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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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beatmenace
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Yes - I must say I found it one of the strangest and strongest episodes of the series. It picks up on the tensions of the earlier series, particularly series 1. We all knew from series 1 that Adam fancied Ellie and when the opportunity dropped into his hands.....What would he do?

As it turned out - the human and the right thing -almost instantly realizing it was a bad idea and backing off , although Nigel's arrival probably helped!

The setting up of the situation has been excellent as we have been watching the pressure build up on Adam for several episodes now.

Most importantly it has the ring of authenticity -yes, the Art installation is a classic McGuffin - Adam could really have destroyed almost anything which triggered his guilty response - but that wasn't ever supposed to be the 'real story' of this episode.

No doubt the gang of Clergy advisers could 'name a few names' where this exact scenario (although probably without vandalising works of art) has happened in real life.

I can see why some folk don't like it, Micks bit is fairly pointless - but it certainly isn't a 'poor' episode.

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Pyx_e

Quixotic Tilter
# 57

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Did someone say "hey fuck the vicar of Dibley, lets make fun of the REAL stuff." and not tell me, another great episode.

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Amos

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It was. I watched it through my fingers with painful recognition in fixed eyes (to paraphrase Wilfred Owen)

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Yangtze
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# 4965

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So unbelievably good.

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Cartmel Veteran
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# 7049

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Excellent episode tonight. I see on Twitter that some of the #RevsforRev brigade don't like it. But this isn't some cosy show made for clergy types to feel smug about together - which until recently it seems many folks of the cloth seemed to think it was*.

It's hard to watch at times. But I like that. It doesn't take any prisoners. It's fabulous stuff. I don't want it to end, but I think it should at the end of this series. Just like Father Ted, it came, it saw, it kicked ass, and left us wanting more.

Joffrey's wedding followed by Rev was an unusually good evening's telly in our house.

*Point of disclosure, Mrs Cartmel Veteran is a vicar

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Amos

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Lovely to see you back, Cartmel Veteran. You've been missed.

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Higgs Bosun
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# 16582

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I agree that last night's episode was really good. I had my fears after reading a preview. It was not comedy, certainly not belly laugh comedy.

However, I was hooked at the start with the imposition of ashes and knowing the situation of the accountant and the look on his face as he is told to leave his life of sin. The core of the story is Adam's knowledge of his desperate need for forgiveness, and the need to show forgiveness and grace. There is the Gospel there.

Again, the story showed that the writers have received real advice about things. How you do deal with someone coming to your church who is on the sex offenders register was known. (Although it is no longer the CRB but the DBS!)

The end made me misty eyed.

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Niminypiminy
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# 15489

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I liked last night's too. It's beyond laughs, except of the painful wry grin of recognition kind. But I think it's using the 'comedy' label to sneak in some serious emotional and moral complexity. Loved 'it's not the tits, it's the heart, Adam'. And the desolate moment when Adam looks at the photograph of Alex that's been trodden on.

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Cartmel Veteran
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# 7049

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quote:
Originally posted by Amos:
Lovely to see you back, Cartmel Veteran. You've been missed.

Thankyouverymuch [Smile]
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Matt Black

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# 2210

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Likewise [Smile] . Also liked the episode and, in context, it raised in a funny way my experience of the previous week's one.

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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)

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Felafool
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# 270

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Last night's episode was IMHO the most powerful, most true to life, of a great programme series. I want all the ordinamds I'm responsible for to watch it, and I think this should be compulsory viewing for anyone training for ministry of any sort, and possibly compulsory viewing for everyone in the church!
There but for the grace of God go I. In fact, sometimes even despite the grace of God, there go I.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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Ow. That was painfully good. The topic of forgiveness - needed and given - and the lack of forgiveness from people who should know better.

The end, where clearly Adam and Colins dog were the only ones who could find forgiveness for him, was touching. There is humour throughout, but it is the dark comedy of recognition.

As I said to someone on twitter, and is even more emphasised by this episode, the series is about Adam being a Christian, despite all the stuff around him, and in him. Despite the church, despite his own failings, despite other well-meaning sorts, Adam manages, usually, to show the gritty reality of God.

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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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luvanddaisies

the'fun'in'fundie'™
# 5761

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I liked this week's episode too - and I guess the previous one, that quite a few people didn't like so much (including me) was needed to set this one up. Worth it though.

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"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines, sail away from the safe harbour. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover." (Mark Twain)

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Chorister

Completely Frocked
# 473

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Another great episode which was, again, even in Creamtealand (rural idyll?!) very true to life. These issues really happen in parishes (although they don't usually all happen at once in the same parish!).

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leo
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# 1458

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The Archbishop of Canterbury has poured cold water on it in the new Radio Times - pointing out that there are lots of growing churches planting new churches because they are full to bursting.

It is almost a repeat pf his gaffe on Radio 4 which said that where there is a good vicar there is a growing church.

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I think the ABC has made a real blunder by being critical of the show as it represents real life. I think, in my experience, it does represent many aspects of clerical life. Yes, it is a caricature, but that is the nature of drama over documentary.

He would have done a whole lot better to accept that it does reflect the work that many hard working clergy do. Rather than pretend that everything is fine in many places.

I think it fails to represent the CofE in that Adam is far more approachable, reasonable, and spiritually minded than many clergy I have known.

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rolyn
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# 16840

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Not the belly laughs of last week , dealing as it did with a different and difficult topic . It contained a salutary tale to anyone addicted to hard porn believing it can't possibly lead to any harm.
Colin was used as the bluntest of instruments as often is his role .

I felt the main comedy lines went to Alex , esp. when Adam tried to claim that kissing Ellie was an 'accident'.

A little more revealed on the mystery of Nigel's girlfriend maybe ? Not sure as to the authenticity of that photo of the two of them.

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Tyler Durden
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# 2996

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The best line/exchange was surely:

Colin: Are you a paedo too? Did you meet him at paedo club?
Adam: There's no such thing as paedo club.
Colin: The first rule of paedo club is 'You don't talk about paedo club'.

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Jante
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# 9163

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I thought the best line went to Nigel- "Its God that does the forgiving not you Adam" !

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Powerful stuff, and very close indeed to home.....

Ian J.

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beatmenace
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# 16955

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'Its God's job to forgive not yours....'

Its the killer line.

You can see the Clergy Advisors at work here as this is so true to life. Its a Pastoral Situation which must be increasingly common.

Such a good episode echoing the Gospels. 'Spot the unforgiving servants ......'. And of course, the point is that, given this situation, it could easily be us.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I do think Alex's line near the end is incredibly deep "I am also aware of how little we have seen of each other lately, so I think the best thing might be to see more of each other not less".

It just struck me that there is something divine in this: the answer to a problem like this, where forgiveness is needed, is not to get further away, but to get nearer.

Gods answer to our sin was not to get further away, but to come nearer. This should have been the answer for the sex offender - not to distance oneself, but to spend more time together.

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not entirely me
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# 17637

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"Don't tread on my vicar!"

This whole episode was gold. Sad, real and with some warmth.

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Lord Jestocost
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# 12909

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I couldn't quite buy Colin being on the PCC, but I suppose he's a better choice than Mick and they had to have someone.

But other than that - what everyone else said. Our congregation will actually be in a similar position in a couple of years time when a particular individual is released from prison ... will be interesting to see what happens then.

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Cartmel Veteran
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# 7049

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My only real problem with the show this week is that Adam never stands up to Colin. He let Colin chase the would-be treasurer off at the end. In most episodes Adam validates Colin's behaviour by his inaction.
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Dormouse

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# 5954

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I think I agree with you here Cartmel Veteran...sometimes Adam lets himself be walked over just a tad too much to be believable. Having said that, I found this to be an incredibly moving episode.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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Hmm. I think he chooses his battles. He does sometimes stand up to people. But there is no point in trying to argue with Colin. Adam tolerates him, because challenging him throws up too many issues.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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