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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Rev. BBC2
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Passion Play Cast
Adam / Christ
Alex / Holy Spirit. ("We are going to stay at my father's house")
Liam / Father.
Baby / The Church
Colin / Peter
Nigel / Judas
Bishop / Pilate
Diocesan Sec - Area Dean / Sadducees and Pharisees
Ellie / Mary Mag
Archdeacon / John? (bit of a stretch)
Adoah?
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296
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Posted
Bearing in mind her propensity to mother anything that moves, would Adoah not be Mary, Jesus' mother.
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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)
Posts: 3011 | From: A village of gardens | Registered: Sep 2002
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
Adoah would be more like Martha I would think. And the Archdeacon more like the centurion who stood by the Cross.
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My Blog Catholic Scot
http://catholicscot.blogspot.co.uk/
@stevhep on Twitter
Posts: 241 | From: Exeter | Registered: Jul 2012
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
So the message seems to be: 'The Church/ Body of Christ has to die, in order to be resurrected.'
An apposite thought, in the current climate of opinion about the C of E.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Interestingly enough the United Reformed Church, when it was formed in 1972, was envisaged to have only a short life as it would be the first step in all the churches joining together in one great pan-denomination and thus become subsumed within it.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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The Great Gumby
Ship's Brain Surgeon
# 10989
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by beatmenace:
quote:
Originally posted by Leo
I think that we DID learn more about Nigel - he was looking at a gay dating site but criticising the dress sense of those with photos - methinks internally homophobic = not able to accept himself.
That was kind of what I meant - although Nigel as a closeted gay man refusing to accept the obvious probably wasn't the most INTERESTING explanation for the way he ticks, but it probably is the easiest to do with the screen time available.
Closeted Gay Man seems quite similar to things the series has already done (to some extent) with the Archdeacon in series 2, who has to choose between love and promotion, and the Gay Wedding story.
It does explain, in part, why he transfers his own personal judgementalism on to others, and Adam in particular.
I will have to watch the scenes again when he is opposite the Archdeacon who Nigel presumably knows is an 'out' gay man, with this extra knowledge.
If you hadn't even considered that Nigel was closeted, just from the episode you mention, I'm struggling to see how it could have been made clearer. Possibly if he'd dressed up in a pink leotard and jumped up and down inside an actual closet, shouting "I'm not gay!" Possibly. The only possible room for doubt was whether it was a deliberate attempt to mislead the viewer into assuming something that wasn't actually true.
And I'm afraid I'm thoroughly sick of the desperate attempts to find exact parallels between Rev and the Easter story. Some of them are blindingly obvious, and the scriptwriters deserve to be beaten about the head with a sledgehammer until they understand the meaning of subtle. Some of the parallels just aren't there, they're things you want to see, and you're arguing over angels on a pinhead.
This is just cementing my view that this was a rather poor and ill-conceived conclusion. The series deserved (and promised) so much more than a crude, inspiration-free allegory that even C.S.Lewis would have balked at.
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The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool. - Richard Feynman
A letter to my son about death
Posts: 5382 | From: Home for shot clergy spouses | Registered: Feb 2006
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Art, meh.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Karl Kroenen
Apprentice
# 16822
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Posted
At risk of over analysing, perhaps this series is more sinister than we think, with lots of subtle dark symbolism.
We all know how God removes a SMALLBONE from ADAM to create Woman (Gen 2 21 -25). Adam’s wife in Rev is of course, quite literally A.Smallbone.
The whole series is named after the final book of the New Testament, otherwise known as THE APOCALYPSE.
3 Series of six (excluding the Christmas special of series 2)? Uh oh – that makes 666.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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God loves you so much that He created Hell, just in case you don't love Him back.
Posts: 34 | From: Bristol | Registered: Dec 2011
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
Also with hidden references to Bunyan's "Pilgrim's Progress": St. Saviour-in-the-Marshes = the dreaded Slough of Despond! ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
quote:
Nigel remains licensed even though the church has closed.
In the Church of England Parishes don't close. So the parish of St Saviour's will presumably be merged with a neighbouring parish. In this kind of circumstance, I guess, it would be as if Nigel has a new incumbent - who, as has been said, can choose not to renew his licence in due course.
Perhaps to take this sub-thread in a different direction - much has been said about Adam as an example of a priest, good or otherwise. Do we consider Nigel to be a good advertisement for Reader Ministry, or not?
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
As has been pointed out above, Nigel has never been seen doing anything in a service, apart from attempting to re-start Ellie's wedding using the BCP. So on that count, not for me.
Also, wasn't he turned down for ordained ministry in the last series - suggesting that all readers are actually frustrated clerics, who sabotage the current incumbent, believing they could run the parish far better than the current vicar, given the chance (I've met a few of these). Also not good.
And now I'm watching Tom Hollander as Dylan Thomas. Not strange at all. But he's fat - augh!
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
It is an Incontrovertible Truth, valid throughout the multiverse, that Readers can run the parish much better than the Vicar......
......I'll get me cassock.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Was it the ending you thought you spotted last week, Chorister?
I and another shipmate (who communicated with me by PM) thought we saw an interesting piece of paper? envelope? on one of the pews being taken out of the church (which may have been hidden when in situ). I did rather fancy that it might have been a fat cheque, or some other way out of church closure, from some generous benefactor, which might have fallen down behind the pew and not seen, only to be revealed when the whole place was dismantled.
It was not to be. And would have been too fairytale an ending. Under the circumstances, I much preferred the more poignant ending which really happened.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
I wondered whether the fire left burning in the barrel might lead to an accident - gaining sufficient money from insurance to renovate the building.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
I wondered whether the fire left burning in the barrel might lead to an accident - gaining sufficient money from insurance to renovate the building.
Or rebuild?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Panda
Shipmate
# 2951
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Posted
Better than the Diocesan Arsonist, surely...
Posts: 1637 | From: North Wales | Registered: Jun 2002
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Panda
Better than the Diocesan Arsonist, surely...
Not many Dioceses have these anymore. Its the cut-backs. The C of E must be seen to be doing it's bit.
All in together, you know.
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
quote:
Nigel remains licensed even though the church has closed.
In the Church of England Parishes don't close. So the parish of St Saviour's will presumably be merged with a neighbouring parish. In this kind of circumstance, I guess, it would be as if Nigel has a new incumbent - who, as has been said, can choose not to renew his licence in due course.
Perhaps to take this sub-thread in a different direction - much has been said about Adam as an example of a priest, good or otherwise. Do we consider Nigel to be a good advertisement for Reader Ministry, or not?
I think he's an appalling ad. for Readers and i find myself defending myself by 'es I'm a Reader but not like Nigel.'
Someone will doubtless reply,'Oh yes you are.'
'O no I'm not'.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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leo
Shipmate
# 1458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Panda:
Also, wasn't he turned down for ordained ministry in the last series - suggesting that all readers are actually frustrated clerics, who sabotage the current incumbent, believing they could run the parish far better than the current vicar, given the chance (I've met a few of these). Also not good.
Yes he was, then he attempted suicide by climbing on toe the roof until Adam talked him down.
Reader ministry is entirely different from ordained ministry but many see getting licensed as some sort of consolation prize.
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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com
Posts: 23198 | From: Bristol | Registered: Oct 2001
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
quote:
originally posted by The great Gumby
Possibly if he'd dressed up in a pink leotard and jumped up and down inside an actual closet, shouting "I'm not gay!"
Now that I would pay to see. But is it Art?
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
Oh yes you are.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Panda:
Better than the Diocesan Arsonist, surely...
After Vetting and Barring, Health and Safety, Risk Assessment and Training the Bristol Diocesan Arsonist is now only allowed to stand 20 yards from any place of public worship, wearing a high vis jacket, leather gauntlets, safety goggles and a hard hat while and holding an un-lit zippo at arms length. A properly certified "official" has to stand within 5 paces with a foam fire extinguisher.
This parody is bought to you care of The C of E. Our motto is "Putting out the fire for 400 years."
[ 01. May 2014, 13:13: Message edited by: Pyx_e ]
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by StevHep:
And the Archdeacon more like the centurion who stood by the Cross.
Just a thought on this association - the archdeacon is Nicodemus, the closet believer.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Pyx_e
Quixotic Tilter
# 57
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Posted
It's behind you.
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It is better to be Kind than right.
Posts: 9778 | From: The Dark Tower | Registered: May 2001
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Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
The archdeacon is Nicodemus, the closet believer.
I'm not sure I've ever seen a closet - but I certainly believe in them. (Mind you, there were one or two in a TV programme about the Georgians the other night).
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Panda:
Also, wasn't he turned down for ordained ministry in the last series - suggesting that all readers are actually frustrated clerics, who sabotage the current incumbent, believing they could run the parish far better than the current vicar, given the chance (I've met a few of these). Also not good.
Reader ministry is entirely different from ordained ministry but many see getting licensed as some sort of consolation prize.
And some of us see it as a valid approach to personal ministry, having explored ordination. And still find rejection.
The CofE has the core problem, because IME, they do not see the value of a range of ministry. It is Ordination or lesser ministry.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
It only occurred to me today that Mick didn't appear in any of the later episodes. Could this be because he was seen as too much of a comic character?
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
It only occurred to me today that Mick didn't appear in any of the later episodes. Could this be because he was seen as too much of a comic character?
I assumed it might have been because the actor playing him wasn't available to take part.
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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Chorister
Completely Frocked
# 473
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Posted
How could Mick follow his dressing up to seduce the vicar act? Better left at that, I think.
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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.
Posts: 34626 | From: Cream Tealand | Registered: Jun 2001
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Miffy
Ship's elephant
# 1438
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Posted
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) Forgot about that!
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"I don't feel like smiling." "You're English dear; fake it!" (Colin Firth "Easy Virtue")
Growing Greenpatches
Posts: 4739 | From: The Kitchen | Registered: Oct 2001
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justlooking
Shipmate
# 12079
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Higgs Bosun:
quote:
Nigel remains licensed even though the church has closed.
In the Church of England Parishes don't close. So the parish of St Saviour's will presumably be merged with a neighbouring parish. In this kind of circumstance, I guess, it would be as if Nigel has a new incumbent - who, as has been said, can choose not to renew his licence in due course.
Perhaps to take this sub-thread in a different direction - much has been said about Adam as an example of a priest, good or otherwise. Do we consider Nigel to be a good advertisement for Reader Ministry, or not?
I don't think Nigel provided any sort of advertisement for Reader Ministry because he didn't do anything specific to Reader ministry apart from wearing the robes. He didn't preach or lead worship or engage in any kind of teaching. Instead he acted as churchwarden, parish secretary, treasurer and Adam's personal assistant.
There's a lot of ignorance about Reader ministry. A Readers isn't licensed by the incumbent or to the incumbent - it's the bishop who does the licensing. If a new incumbent didn't agree to Nigel being relicensed to the new parish then his general license to the diocese would remain and he'd be involved in discussions about alternatives.
Nigel wasn't Judas because Adam wasn't Jesus. There was no case to justify action against Adam because the mistakes he made didn't amount to an improper relationship. But he did make mistakes and there was on the face of it grounds to investigate. This example was petty but in RL there's a lot of covering up and turning a blind eye to things that are far from petty.
Posts: 2319 | From: thither and yon | Registered: Nov 2006
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Curiosity killed ...
Ship's Mug
# 11770
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Posted
There's probably a Purgatory thread in discussing how the Clergy Discipline Measure works, or doesn't ... but in real life the first conversation between the priest and the Archdemon or Bishop is the one where the priest is shown the written complaint. And in life, as in art, such a letter doesn't do a lot for relationships between the complainant and the priest, which can rather affect the willingness of some people to raise issues.
I don't have time to start a Purgatory thread, now.
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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat
Posts: 13794 | From: outiside the outer ring road | Registered: Aug 2006
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Seeing the interest in this one character I'm left wondering if there's room for a follow up sit-com entitled 'Nigel'.
Something that has occurred to me , having watched the final episode again, is that Alex, (one of the few secular characters), was the only one who was really capable of displaying true, unconditional forgiveness.
All said and done I would say Rev. was indeed comic genius that moved it's audience, but underneath there existed a dark analysis of Christianity and all it's proponents, from the very top to the very bottom.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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Oscar the Grouch
Adopted Cascadian
# 1916
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Posted
Agreed.
As far as I could see, they only "got things wrong" when they were doing so deliberately for the purposes of the storyline and the comedy. A certain degree of artistic licence needs to be allowed - this ain't a documentary!
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Faradiu, dundeibáwa weyu lárigi weyu
Posts: 3871 | From: Gamma Quadrant, just to the left of Galifrey | Registered: Dec 2001
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