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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Barbarous neologisms and other things
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Mama Thomas
Shipmate
# 10170
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Posted
I've learned to love the recent "I know, right?!" but am sure that will pass if it hasn't already.
I think purists may have lost the "and I" fight.
Such as "they gave a ticket to Alex and I" and they invited Alex and I to dinner."
I hear it on the news.
I hear it in real life.
I hear it in interviews.
I hear it in scripts, not knowing if the writer, director, or actor is changing it to fit the character or changing the "and me" to "and I" when it doesn't go. Not sure what to think about it in scripted movies and TV shows.
I hear it from people educated or not.
I hear it here, I hear it there, I hear it everywhere.
I do not like it "and I" am,
sorry to hear the demise of good old uneducated dialectical "Me an' him an' her."
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All hearts are open, all desires known
Posts: 3742 | From: Somewhere far away | Registered: Aug 2005
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Dangling modifiers have also become ubiquitous, especially in places where the speaker or writer should know better.
Example: Surfing the web, several topics caught my interest.
Since when do topics surf? You meant to say: Surfing the web, I noticed several topics of interest.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814
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Posted
Back again, with my two irritating examples from sports reporters:
Team A whitewashed team B in a 48-12 match. (I thought 'to whitewash' meant to do a PR job to cover something up or to make bad sound good?)
Team B were not on their best form after playing back-to-back games against Team C and Team D at the end of the week. (Surely they played consecutive games in a short space of time. Back-to-back means facing in opposite directions, surely?)
GG
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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113
Posts: 2629 | From: Matarangi | Registered: Jun 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
They used to say Team A "shellacked" Team B. Maybe a sports commentator used the wrong paint.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Galloping Granny:
Team A whitewashed team B in a 48-12 match. (I thought 'to whitewash' meant to do a PR job to cover something up or to make bad sound good?)
In the UK "whitewash" is used when one team fails to score. 48—12 is not a whitewash, 48—0 is.
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Last ever sig ...
blog
Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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South Coast Kevin
Shipmate
# 16130
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Posted
I just invented the verb 'to Amazon wish-list', on the Ship as well! I feel dirty.
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
Posts: 3309 | From: The south coast (of England) | Registered: Jan 2011
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Abigail
Shipmate
# 1672
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Posted
I find it really annoying when people use 'convince' when they mean 'persuade', as in: He convinced him to have another drink.
I started seeing this in my local paper some time ago and now I'm seeing it all over the place.
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The older I get the less I know.
Posts: 505 | From: London | Registered: Nov 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I find it really annoying when people use 'convince' when they mean 'persuade', as in: He convinced him to have another drink.
I started seeing this in my local paper some time ago and now I'm seeing it all over the place.
I have been seeing this for years, and I dislike it intensely.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Abigail:
I find it really annoying when people use 'convince' when they mean 'persuade', as in: He convinced him to have another drink.
I started seeing this in my local paper some time ago and now I'm seeing it all over the place.
The OED pegs this use to 1958. Your local paper is clearly behind the Times.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
My personal peeve is the use of 'journey': you don't acquire dancing skills on Strictly, you go on a journey...
Aaaaaargh ![[Projectile]](graemlins/puke2.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Chocoholic
Shipmate
# 4655
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Posted
Oh yes, and they always have to "take things to the next level"!
Posts: 773 | From: London | Registered: Jun 2003
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
I'm another one who cringes at the use of 'convince to' rather than 'persuade to' and 'convince of'.
I looked it up a while ago and found that both were apparently acceptable. It doesn't make it sound any better though.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
This was a new one on me -- "release" being used intransitively to mean "to be released" --
"A new report on human spaceflight releases this Friday."
Releases what?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
This was a new one on me -- "release" being used intransitively to mean "to be released" --
"A new report on human spaceflight releases this Friday."
Releases what?
The hounds! ![[Snigger]](graemlins/snigger.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
I don't think anyone has yet mentioned "text" as a verb.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Drifting Star
Drifting against the wind
# 12799
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I don't think anyone has yet mentioned "text" as a verb.
We would have done, but it upsets us too much.
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The soul is dyed the color of its thoughts. Heraclitus
Posts: 3126 | From: A thin place. | Registered: Jul 2007
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
We've been verbing nouns for ever. "To text" is only one of the more recent.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
We've been verbing nouns for ever.
RRRRRRAAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHH ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif)
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
Posts: 3791 | From: On the corporate ladder | Registered: Jan 2012
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
We've been verbing nouns for ever. "To text" is only one of the more recent.
Transforming adverbs into prepositional phrases. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
It isn't quite a barbarous neologism but I've been amused to read sentences such as "Thank you for inviting me, I shall defiantly be there."
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Amused by the comma fault or the malaprop?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
This was a new one on me -- "release" being used intransitively to mean "to be released" --
"A new report on human spaceflight releases this Friday."
Releases what?
Seems to me it would have been perfectly acceptable to say "will be released" instead of "releases." I'm fancifully imagining that this is the result of half-educated editors demanding that reporters not use the passive voice.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Sir Kevin
Ship's Gaffer
# 3492
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I have two pet peeves.
"Gifted" used as a verb, when it is an adjective...
I remember when I was a teenager I used to take summer courses from Pasadena Association for the Gifted taught by Cal Tech students, i.e. future scientists. It was supposed to be for brilliant children. That is the proper use of it as an adjective.
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If you board the wrong train, it is no use running along the corridor in the other direction Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Writing is currently my hobby, not yet my profession.
Posts: 30517 | From: White Hart Lane | Registered: Oct 2002
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
Absolutely. I heard someone on the radio at it wholly inappropriately the other day. I suppose it could have crept in via sentences such as "She was gifted, with a talent for writing". Can that be done without the comma?
Our schools have to have someone with the responsibility for children who are "Gifted and Talented". As in "Who's the G&T coordinator?"
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I hate it that no one ever tells anyone anything these days, they always share something with them.
I had a realtor ask me if I would share with her just how many square feet I was looking for in a house.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
As in "Who's the G&T coordinator?"
Isn't that the person who mixes the GIN and Tonics?
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I hate it that no one ever tells anyone anything these days, they always share something with them.
I had a realtor ask me if I would share with her just how many square feet I was looking for in a house.
Thank you for sharing that with us.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
As in "Who's the G&T coordinator?"
Isn't that the person who mixes the GIN and Tonics?
That was the hope.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
In a restaurant, happens always these daze:
Server: "can I get you something to drink?"
Customer orders something
Server: "Perfect"
Customer asks for something, like water.
Server: "absolutely"
Customer has his/her mouth full
Server comes by and asks "how's everything tasting?"
Customer: "absolutely perfect" (translation: "punch me now!)
[ 05. June 2014, 20:57: Message edited by: no prophet ]
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
As in "Who's the G&T coordinator?"
Isn't that the person who mixes the GIN and Tonics?
That was the hope.
Or even the Gins and Tonic. Which no doubt you need after a day of dealing with precocious kids.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Absolutely. I heard someone on the radio at it wholly inappropriately the other day. I suppose it could have crept in via sentences such as "She was gifted, with a talent for writing". Can that be done without the comma?
Without the comma it means something different.
Without the comma it means she has a talent for writing, full stop.
With the comma, it means she was gifted in general, and had a talent for writing in particular. It implies (but does not state) that she had other talents besides.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
I have just come across "bored of" instead of "bored with", and in the Speccie of all places.
It is a pity that enormity/immensity and depreciate/deprecate have become, in practice, interchangeable.
Why not keep enormity for wickedness and use immensity for size?
Self-deprecatory is almost always used these days when self-depreciatory is intended.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked. Otherwise the word wanted is "devastated".
Which brings me on to "prevarication". This means telling an untruth. It does not mean and should never be confused with "procrastination". I do hate it when I see these two words used wrongly.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
Absolutely. I heard someone on the radio at it wholly inappropriately the other day. I suppose it could have crept in via sentences such as "She was gifted, with a talent for writing". Can that be done without the comma?
Without the comma it means something different.
Without the comma it means she has a talent for writing, full stop.
With the comma, it means she was gifted in general, and had a talent for writing in particular. It implies (but does not state) that she had other talents besides.
And, according to the advice to teachers, one should keep giftedness and talentedness quite separate. Inexplicably.
The commaless meaning would be where the verbing crept in, I surmise.
[ 06. June 2014, 10:10: Message edited by: Penny S ]
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
Of course, "gift" as a transitive verb dates to 1608, so verbing of nouns has been going on for some time.
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked. Otherwise the word wanted is "devastated".
I have heard of a sentence in a Western of someone on horseback being shot. quote:
He was literally decimated in the saddle.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
I have heard of a sentence in a Western of someone on horseback being shot. quote:
He was literally decimated in the saddle.
Moo
They shot an arm off? That would be about 10%, right?
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked.
This is true of the Latin root. The English word has moved on.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
True enough, I suppose. The problem is that to anyone who has the least idea about where the word comes from, the difference between the literal meaning and the current usage is so staringly obvious that the current usage just looks wrong.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
True enough, I suppose. The problem is that to anyone who has the least idea about where the word comes from, the difference between the literal meaning and the current usage is so staringly obvious that the current usage just looks wrong.
I'd scarcely ever speak a word if that bothered me.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked.
This is true of the Latin root. The English word has moved on.
I would probably be more inclined to accept it if I didn't suspect that the similarity of decimate/devastate has led to the confusion. I hate being forced to accept malapropisms as proper usage.
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked.
This is true of the Latin root. The English word has moved on.
I would probably be more inclined to accept it if I didn't suspect that the similarity of decimate/devastate has led to the confusion. I hate being forced to accept malapropisms as proper usage.
After some point, the language pundit just has to shrug and move on. I'm willing to bet 1% of the words we use daily started as malapropisms.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Of course, "gift" as a transitive verb dates to 1608, so verbing of nouns has been going on for some time.
So why has it only become noticeable recently? I didn't grow up with it, and I'm not that old.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked.
This is true of the Latin root. The English word has moved on.
Which doesn't mean it has moved on for the better, even if Shakespeare moved it.
We're back to the old battle between descriptivism and prescriptivism, which is a DH IMHO.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
We're back to the old battle between descriptivism and prescriptivism, which is a DH IMHO.
I've never seen a real descriptivist. A real descriptivist would think prescriptivism was no more right or wrong than any other feature of language.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
I would probably be more inclined to accept it if I didn't suspect that the similarity of decimate/devastate has led to the confusion. I hate being forced to accept malapropisms as proper usage.
Precisely, just as with prevarication and procrastination. Yes, they both begin with pr- and end with -ation. So do lots of other words.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Ariel:
... and if something is "decimated", only a tenth of it is wrecked.
This is true of the Latin root. The English word has moved on.
I would probably be more inclined to accept it if I didn't suspect that the similarity of decimate/devastate has led to the confusion. I hate being forced to accept malapropisms as proper usage.
According to Merriam-Webster and the OED, "decimate" has never been commonly used in the narrow Latin definition in the English language. Unless used as a technical term, it has always had a broader meaning since its first recorded English usage in the mid-17th century. The notion that "decimate" should only be used in its strictest definition is a novelty of the late 19th century.
Therefore, it has never been a malapropism within the English language, in any case.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet:
In a restaurant, happens always these daze:
Server: "can I get you something to drink?"
Customer orders something
Server: "Perfect"
…
My favorite teacher from high school days would have responded 'You may if you can.'
Another teacher in the same school had this response to any student who began an answer with 'Well.' 'Sit down, young man, I know you're well.'
Both definitely 'old school' types, but now, more than 50 years later, I'm never guilty of either of these lapses.
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You can't retire from a calling.
Posts: 1675 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by georgiaboy:
My favorite teacher from high school days would have responded 'You may if you can.'
My English teacher in the nineties had a similar policy regarding the use of "can" instead of "may." She also refused to acknowledge any question or response that included filler words, such as, "like," "um," "you know," etc.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Interesting. My 12th grade English teacher (the late great saintly Miss Jean Walker) forbid the use of "things" and "stuff" in classroom discussions.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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