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Source: (consider it) Thread: Favourite classic fantasy novels
Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Yes, it is important to consider the age of the students. Some material possibly not suitable for the more tender age.

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Firenze

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The OPer has already said it's a degree-level course for adults, do I think we need not hold back on recommendations with challenging content.
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Organ Builder
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I'm going to put in a passing nomination for Arthur C. Clarke's "The City and the Stars". He could spin a tale, even if his characters are a bit wooden. There is speculation about the future of the human race, a quest and--well, a little bit of romance. Romance isn't central to the story, but it does exist (done about as well as one might expect from a male science fiction writer of his period). It's one of the few things I read in my childhood which stuck with me until I finally re-read it 40 years later.

[ 20. June 2014, 16:23: Message edited by: Organ Builder ]

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Jengie jon

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It is a course for adults not YA but the best YA fantasy is better than most adult stuff. Hence the discussion of it here.

Jengie

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Ariel
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# 58

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OK. Mark Chadbourn's World's End is pretty definitely not for children. Grim, gritty, raw, compelling, it tells the story of how the old Celtic gods and the irrational, wild and supernatural side come back into everyday 20th century life. Five very different Londoners find themselves picked to carry out the quest to restore the Lost Treasures to the land, with the aid of someone they much later discover is Thomas the Rhymer, who appears as an ageing hippy. They are hunted mercilessly by the powers of evil and none of them remain unscathed.

It's closer to horror, dark and detailed, but excellently told and with a few twists you don't see coming. This trilogy (World's End is the first in the series, and the complete trilogy is called Age of Misrule) is a gripping read and left me wanting more. His other books in and around the trilogy are also pretty good.

Stephen Donaldson's Thomas Covenant novels are dark with an unlikeable anti-hero. I have the set, but they always make me feel a bit queasy. There's nothing beautiful or refreshing about them, as Donaldson seems to enjoy dwelling on the more repulsive elements, and there's plenty of unpleasant imagery to go with the leper hero, the rape he commits, the fights and blood-spills, etc.

LOTR is actually three books in one, which everybody knows but which often gets overlooked. If you wanted to bring that in, The Fellowship of the Ring is the first one, and lighter in tone than the rest, with the cheerful hobbits setting out on the adventure, before it progresses into the darker story told in the next two books.

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Dafyd
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Thomas Covenant is the sort of thing that teenagers think is brilliant - angst, gratuitous suffering, gray vs jet black morality. It's a precursor of the grim dark aesthetic that was all over genre fiction in the early nineties. Unfortunately the grimdark aesthetic was not an automatic guarantee of quality, and when it was bad it was horrid. I have a feeling that Thomas Covenant, while not horrid, was not actually all that good either.

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Ariel
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# 58

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I thought that; the author's writing style and vocabulary annoyed me as well.

"Hellfire," grated Covenant, his ire roused as he regarded Linden's mien and the roiling clouds behind her.

Nobody ever just has (for example) a face in the Covenant stories. They have a visage, countenance or mien, but never just a simple face. And so it goes.

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Palimpsest
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On a mata-tangent, I'm fond of the Ursula Leguin essay "From Elfland to Poughkeepsie" which discusses the nature of fantasy.
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not entirely me
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Neverwhere and Stardust by Neil Gaiman both seem like pretty good suggestions to me.
Although for something a tad obscure and more philosophy than fantasy you could try Maya by Jostein Gaarder.

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Brenda Clough
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I have an allergy to Stephen Donaldson, also Robert Jordan and Stephen King.However, there is no accounting for taste.
There are all kinds of subgenrelets in fantasy fiction. Steampunk, for instance, or vampires or zombies. Or historical military -- a great example would be TEMERAIRE by Naomi Novik. I coined one of my own, contemporary suburban fantasy (in which the protagonists drive minivans instead of dragons).

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georgiaboy
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Charles Williams's 'All Hallow's Eve' was mentioned upthread. IMO, his 'War in Heaven' is a better place to start with his novels. My favorite is perhaps 'Many Dimensions,' which has one major character first encountered in 'War in Heaven.'

In re: CSLewis space trilogy, they are each 'stand-alone,' in that one doesn't HAVE to read them together or in sequence, though it's surely better to do so. But in any case, the grand crescendo of the final chapters of 'That Hideous Strength' well repays some of the rather horrifying preceding events.

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orfeo

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quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
Stephen Donaldson's Mordant's Need, just two books, may not be too long, and is very much a romance.

Actually YES, why didn't I think of that for Donaldson??

Probably because truth be told, I don't like it quite as much as some of his other work, but you're right, it is far more in a romantic vein than his other work, too.

EDIT: And I recognise why some people have an issue with Donaldson's writing style. My instinct is to say that his later SF series, 'The Gap', is better than the Thomas Covenant books, but in truth I can't guarantee that the writing style has changed that much. Maybe I was just gripped by the drama of the story (which is inspired to a degree by Wagner's Ring Cycle).

[ 21. June 2014, 00:27: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Oscar the Grouch

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# 1916

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Although they are series of books, rather than a single book, I would heartily recommend the Belgariad and the Malloreon by David Eddings (both sets of 5 books), closely followed by the Elenium and the Tamuli (both sets of 3 books). The Belgariad especially has interesting characters and good dollops of humour to go with the magic and the quest.

Depending upon how you define "fantasy", I would also nominate American Gods by Neil Gaiman. Thinking of him also brings to mind Neverwhere (which became a book after being a brilliant TV series). And how about the most amazing Good Omens by Gaiman and Pratchett. I read this book probably once a year and still laugh out loud.

Finally, how about Rivers of London by Ben Aaronovitch? It is the start of a series of books about the same character, but is self contained.

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Timothy the Obscure

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# 292

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I don't have much to suggest that hasn't been mentioned (though I recoil in horror from some <cough>Stephen Donaldson<cough>), but I would say that if you want something in the classic vein (by which I mean a more or less medieval setting with wizards and dragons, etc.), A Wizard of Earthsea is probably your best choice.

Peter Beagle's The Last Unicorn is a true classic, though in some ways it's a parody, and will be best appreciated by those who are deeply familiar with the genre. His more recent work is also terrific: The Innkeeper's Song is the one he considers his best, and it is outstanding, and in that medieval quest territory, though with a modern feel (especially about sex and gender roles).

However, if you want something that feels a bit more contemporary, you might consider urban fantasy, of which Charles DeLint is the leading practitioner: Trader and Onion Girl are two of my favorites. Also Emma Bull's War for the Oaks and Finder; R.A. MacAvoy's Tea With the Black Dragon; Terri Windling's The Wood Wife; and Robin Mckinley's Sunshine.

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Penny S
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If you're going urban, Tom Holt's books set in John Wellington Well's business in Simmery Axe might fit the bill.

I didn't really get into Donaldson - I read through a few Covenant books but gave up. I had to go down to the library with a list of words I could not deduce from context because he always used them in exactly the same way and never used another word to describe the same thing. And when I got there, I found that many of them were not to be found in the 20 volume Oxford. I needed Webster, and then they were classified as obselete. Roynish is the only one I recall - still without its meaning.

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Welease Woderwick

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# 10424

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Would George R. Stewart's Earth Abides qualify as being of that genre? It is about mid as 20th Century as you can get, is well written and has a believable plot - I was about to write that it is both depressing and hopeful but am not at all sure that makes any sort of sense.

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balaam

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quote:
Originally posted by Welease Woderwick:
I was about to write that it is both depressing and hopeful but am not at all sure that makes any sort of sense.

I makes sense to any genre of fiction written in the immediate post-war period.

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Curiosity killed ...

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Another who couldn't get into Stephen Donaldson and I was so irritated by David Eddings' portrayal of female characters in the Malloreon series (having read the Belgariad series) that I stopped reading fantasy for years, but I love the Ben Aaronovitch books and think the Colour of Magic books by Pratchett were redeemed by The Luggage and the descriptions of the Unseen University. None of which really fit a romantic theme although Ben Aaronovitch has a very modern take on relationships.

It's ages since I read any, but I found Piers Anthony's books an interesting way of dealing with real life issues - he tackled things like self-harm, for example, through fantasy, but that's about all I can remember.

If you want classic, there's Dune or Asimov

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Curious Kitten
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If you've got to do a Ursula le Guin I'd suggest Left Hand of Darkness, which is technically a sci-fi but very influential.

Asimov's First Contact, is free from project Gutenburg, short and amazing. It makes far more use of the tropes and tricks of the fantasy genre than his Foundations series as brilliant as that is.

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Ariel
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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
None of which really fit a romantic theme although Ben Aaronovitch has a very modern take on relationships.

File under "Occult Detectives" in the tradition of John Silence, Carnacki, Dr Taverner, Duke de Richleau, etc etc.
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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Curiosity killed ...:
I was so irritated by David Eddings' portrayal of female characters in the Malloreon series (having read the Belgariad series)

I only remember one female character in David Eddings. She's a master of disguise and appears with a number of different names and hairstyles, and can even appear more than once in the same scene talking to herself like Tatiana Maslany, but she's obviously the same person every time.
I can remember three male characters. Each one made out of the very best cardboard.

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Oscar the Grouch

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It's interesting how different people see things. I really enjoyed the Belgariad and Mallorean and didn't see problems with the characterisations.

But then, I did read them after trying (for the umpteenth time) to read Stephen Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" - which I found to be the most tedious pile of horse manure I had ever encountered.

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orfeo

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# 13878

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The funny thing about the Thomas Covenant books is that, when I first read them as a teenager, I found every one of the first 3 books, at least, to be problematic.

In fact I think it took me 3 attempts before I made it through the first one.

I'm not sure why I kept trying. I think as much as anything it was probably because that had never happened to me before. I was a good reader. I'd never found getting through a book challenging.

So I went back.

And here's the interesting thing: again with at least the first 3 books, in each case I'd get to about a third of the way through the book and suddenly the dam would break. From then on I'd be in the rhythm of the language and it would be fine. The second book, The Illearth War, is now one of my favourites. For me, events rise to a desperate and gripping crescendo. To me that's pretty much what Donaldson is about, desperate and gripping crescendos.

Anyway, I guess I've effectively ruled them out for a class, you don't really want something that most people will struggle through at first (even if they'd enjoy it if they persevered). I still like the suggestion of the Mordant's Need pair of books, though - distinctly less 'tough' than Donaldson's other works and more 'romantic'.

Can't see anything wrong with the Ursula le Guin or Neil Gaiman suggestions either, by the way. I thoroughly enjoyed Gaiman's American Gods. There were a couple of other suggestions of series I remember fondly but they seemed more for younger readers. I personally have zero interest in ever reading more David Eddings.

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Boadicea Trott
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# 9621

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The Fionavar Tapestry series by Guy Gavriel Kay: "The Summer Tree", "The Wandering Fire" and "The Darkest Road".
It is a cross-over between Toronto and Fionavar, with great themes on free will decisions and forgiveness.

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Robert Armin

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quote:
Originally posted by Oscar the Grouch:
It's interesting how different people see things. I really enjoyed the Belgariad and Mallorean and didn't see problems with the characterisations.

But then, I did read them after trying (for the umpteenth time) to read Stephen Donaldson's "Chronicles of Thomas Covenant" - which I found to be the most tedious pile of horse manure I had ever encountered.

I can't read either Eddings or Donaldson, I'm afraid. The first is so silly I suspect him of playing an elaborate practical joke on his readers, the second so dismal I fear for his sanity - and neither one can write well.

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Adeodatus
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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
I can't think how I forgot T H White. Yes, the Sword in the Stone is for the young, but the later three in the sequence are not. The Queen of Air and Darkness, The Illmade Knight, and The Candle in the Wind all deal with the Malory themes of incest, betrayal, and so on in the Arthurian cycle.

Just because of this thread, I went and read a couple of my favourite chapters of The Candle in the Wind. I'd forgotten how painfully beautiful that book is! [Big Grin]

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Brenda Clough
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All of them were extensively reworked to become THE ONCE AND FUTURE KING, and there is a further book, THE BOOK OF MERLYN, which was published posthumously.
What is fascinating about White is the way he took a quite elaborate and definite mythos and overlaid upon it an entire modern theme and sensibility. One of the finest examples of upcycling you will ever see.
And, his stand-alone fantasy MISTRESS MASHAM'S REPOSE is a gem that should be far better known.

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Doublethink.
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# 1984

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How about modern fairy tales, Snow White, Blood Red is a good anthology, there was a second by the same editors - Black Thorn, White Rose.

They are really very good.

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Nicolemr
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The Merlin trilogy by Mary Stewart is an excellent retelling of the Arthur story. The first one, The Crystal Cave stands alone well enough to be used by itself in a course.

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
I can't read either Eddings or Donaldson, I'm afraid. The first is so silly I suspect him of playing an elaborate practical joke on his readers,

Well, he managed to write the same story twice, in 16 books plus spin-offs, and get paid for it.

(Belgariad / Elenium: Oh no! big disaster! Our Hero (tm) and his gang of cardboard buddies (one representing each group of good guys) have to trek half way around the world to find a magic blue rock. Oh, and kill an evil god.

Malloreon / Tamuli: Oh no! Now there's an evil red rock! Our Hero (tm) and his cardboard buddies have to trek half way across the world with the magic blue rock to fight it. Along the way, we discover that the magic coloured rocks are even more powerful than we thought before.)

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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In the field, we have a term for this. It is Extruded Fantasy Product, on the analogy of Cheez Whiz.

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Net Spinster
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# 16058

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Lot of suggestions I agree with (and quite a few I don't). I second Bujold and will put in a mention for Patricia A. McKillip ("Forgotten Beasts of Eld", "The Book of Atrix Wolfe").

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Penny S
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# 14768

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While suggesting T H White and Mary Stewart, I kept having the feeling that somewhere in my memory was lurking something else really good.

I still can't find it.*

I have, however recalled Robin McKinley's YA reworking of old tales, and the first one of hers I read, "The Blue Sword".

*As it seems to be lurking in the same place that half forgotten dreams hang out, it may be one of those, and have no resolution.

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Lamb Chopped
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# 5528

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Chalice. Also by Robin McKinley.

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jacobsen

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I know it's a degree level course, but Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time, though ostensibly a chidren's book, is actually well worth examining. She manages to incorporate some tough concepts in physics e.g. what she describes as tessering in what scientists have called the best explanations ever of the process.

Nor would I exclude Kipling's Puck of Pook's Hill and Rewards and Fairies. Not exactly mid 20thC, but Kipling's voice is individual. Definitely not mid 19thC!

Nicholas Stuart Grey wrote reworkings of fairy tales, notably The Seventh Swan,after the story by Hans Andersen, and The Stone Cage {Rapunzel. Grimm?} Both sadly out of print, but worth considering if you can find them.

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Vulpior

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# 12744

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quote:
Originally posted by Niminypiminy:
...The Owl Service which I remember being spooked by as a teenager. ...

Ditto. I've just about completed my Alan Garner collection in order to reread things from my youth, and I remember The Owl Service being strange and scary. Like Penny S I have Boneland waiting to be read, and I note Ariel's observations.

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Penny S
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quote:
Originally posted by jacobsen:
I know it's a degree level course, but Madeleine L'Engle's A Wrinkle in Time, though ostensibly a chidren's book, is actually well worth examining. She manages to incorporate some tough concepts in physics e.g. what she describes as tessering in what scientists have called the best explanations ever of the process.

Nor would I exclude Kipling's Puck of Pook's Hill and Rewards and Fairies. Not exactly mid 20thC, but Kipling's voice is individual. Definitely not mid 19thC!

Nicholas Stuart Grey wrote reworkings of fairy tales, notably The Seventh Swan,after the story by Hans Andersen, and The Stone Cage {Rapunzel. Grimm?} Both sadly out of print, but worth considering if you can find them.

Three I had not mentioned but two I thought of. I have recently given the Seventh Swan away to Oxfam! I think it was once done as a radio play.

And it reminds of Naomi Mitchison, since some of hers occupy the same Scottish territory. There was also "To the Chapel Perilous" which plays with the Holy Grail myths. Which leads me to Priestley's "The 31st of June" which I want a copy of, which does a sort of Yankee at the court of King Arthur stuff.

Back to Mitchison, I think "The Corn King and the Spring Queen" might have been the one lurking in my mind.

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georgiaboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
...
And, his stand-alone fantasy MISTRESS MASHAM'S REPOSE is a gem that should be far better known.

I came upon Mistres Masham's Repose quite by accident -- it was in a box of books I bought at auction. I loved it at first reading, and I re-read it often. The characterizations are superb, and the tropes from all over the countryside of literature are quite amazing. (The illustrations help a lot, too!)

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Brenda Clough
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It is sad, if you are over at Goodreads, to read the evaluations of MISTRESS MASHAM'S REPOSE. People complain of the digressions. It is a style of fiction that alas is not very popular these days. OTOH it is surely just about ripe for rediscovery.

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Ann

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Not sure how easy it would be to find - The Golden Key by Jennifer Roberson, Melanie Rawn, and Kate Elliott involves a sweep of history in a sort of parallel Spain with Moorish influence and a heroine trapped in a painting.

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Brenda Clough
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If you are willing to buy used it is possible to find almost any published book on the internet. After you work through Amazon and Ebay, go over to abebooks.com, the clearinghouse for used book stores. These resources have been my Apollyon for years. If these three avenues and a generalized google search fail you, then it is indeed unavailable. (And, of course, if money is no object. Shipping a book from over sea is spendy.)

The only irritation with this for the OP is that if you want a dozen or twenty identical books for a class to be available at the university bookstore. Do teachers send their students out these days into the web, with the instruction, "Go buy yourself a copy of WIVES AND DAUGHTERS by Elizabeth Gaskell!" (Which is available on Project Gutenberg, btw, another powerful resource for anything in public domain.)

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Matt Black

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Stephen Donaldson, if nothing else because of the twist that the (anti-)hero is from our world.

If I'm allowed an entry from the science-fantasy genre, then Anne McCaffrey's Pern novels.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Stephen Donaldson, if nothing else because of the twist that the (anti-)hero is from our world.

Hardly a twist, since it's announced from the outset. I think it's more uncommon to have a protagonist from our world (especially in adult novels) than it used to be. But still one couldn't call it unexpected.

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Which is available on Project Gutenberg, btw, another powerful resource for anything in public domain.

Are texts on Project Gutenberg properly edited?

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Penny S
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I now recall Alison Croggon and the Pellinor Quartet. She uses the concept of documents found in our world and time (in Morocco, I think), which have been translated and revealed an earlier time in which magic was used. Her map*, at least, shows similarities with another, and there are other resonances. Her writing style is good. Like the Blue Sword, it has a female central character finding out about her gifts, and like many others it has a nameless dark personage who has to be defeated.
* Maps of Pellinor I can't see where this is supposed to be in the history or geological history of our planet.

[ 26. June 2014, 17:17: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Penny S
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Sorry about double posting, but I have just found that the map talks! And has a problem with east and west.
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Brenda Clough
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I don't know much about how Project Gutenberg selects its editions, but they are all public domain. In other words, if you want that enlightening 40-page foreword written by a prominent scholar, you have to go buy the Penguin Classics edition.

I'm afraid that a hero (or anti-hero) plucked from Earth is an extraordinarily common trope in the genre. OUT OF THE SILENT PLANET. THE WORM OUROBOUROS. JOHN CARTER OF MARS. Pellucidar. Narnia. RED MOON, BLACK MOUNTAIN. (There's one we haven't mentioned yet -- Joy Chant, an author who should have written many more books. Her GREY MANE OF MORNING is stupendous and should be far better known.)

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Penny S
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I think I mentioned Joy Chant above somewhere.
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Brenda Clough
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Because she had a busy personal and professional life Chant only wrote novels during vacations. Which means she only wrote 3 or 4 in her lifetime. Tragic.

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Penny S
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"The Crock of Gold" by James Stephens
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