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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The political pits
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balaam
Making an ass of myself
# 4543
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Posted
The job of the opposition is to oppose, it goes with the territory: It is why they are called opposition.
Opposition woks in two ways — saying what the opposition is doing wrong and suggesting an alternative. What I see above in this thread are a lot of people saying that the party election broadcast should have been all about the latter, and isn't it terrible that it was all about the former.
But I was disappointed with this broadcast for a different reason, it was about domestic politics under the guise of a broadcast bout the European elections. It was bad because it wasn't relevant to the election it was about.
That they chose to use a satirical style that was reminiscent of Spitting Image is not the point, (though it was more Luck and Flaw than Fluck and Law). The point is that this is the election of the European Parliament, not the national one.
The election broadcast was not relevant to the election. That is why it was wrong, not because it lampooned the government.
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Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
But, Labour are not the Opposition in the European Parliament. So, the "that's what opposition does" argument doesn't hold. Though, as it seemed more like a very early broadcast for the next UK general election rather than for the coming European election, maybe it could be seen as a broadcast by the Opposition.
But, if it was an Opposition broadcast surely the effect is to say "in Opposition we will continue to criticise the Government". Setting themselves up for prime position to be the Opposition after the next election. Shouldn't the Labour Party be setting their sights higher and aim for Government rather than Opposition?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
The election broadcast was not relevant to the election. That is why it was wrong, not because it lampooned the government.
Would I be correct in surimisng(from my vantage point at the opposite end of the Eurasian landmass) that the European elections are of relatively slight interest to British voters? And, as such, the party likely figured that they might as well just use the campaign to kickstart the next UK elections?
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Stetson,
Sadly, you're probably correct. European Parliamentary elections are generally of even less interest to voters than any other election - not that the UK electorate appear to be enthusiastic about any election.
So, yes the current round of political broadcasts and campaigning has a feel of warming up for the next general election. The vote itself will most likely be viewed as not much more than an opinion poll on domestic UK politics.
Of course, when those standing for election in the European Parliament seem to demonstrate a very low regard for the EP and behave as though it's just a glorified opinion poll and a chance to warm up before the elections that mean something it's little wonder the electorate appear to believe the same.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, the European elections have become very peculiar; partly, I think, because one's MEP and the European Parliament seem very abstract and far away to many people.
So the elections have become anything but an election to a parliament; they provide a way to let off steam, to say fuck off to politicians; to register a protest vote and so on.
I bet that many politicians dread them, and can't wait for the 'real thing'. Yet they also can be important, as showing trends in voting. So if the Tories come third or whatever, there will be moaning and groaning in the shires no doubt, whilst also, some discounting of it as not real.
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Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Sadly, you're probably correct. European Parliamentary elections are generally of even less interest to voters than any other election
Probably because they make absolutely no difference to anything whatsoever.
It's like the good folk of Lincolnshire being asked to elect one member of a sixteen-member parliamentary subcommittee that will do the proofreading of every third bill that passes through the House. Wow! How important is it to put aside all other plans and commitments so that you can be a part of that decision!
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
Apparently Nigel Farage is my MEP. Never heard from him at all and not sure what sort of issue I would contact him about.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
European Parliament elections can also be an opportunity to vote on the single issue of European Union. Those parties with very clear positions on that issue - whether to leave or integrate further - will tend to collect more votes than they would expect in any other election.
Labour and Conservatives are pretty much divided within their own party regarding Europe, and no one really knows where they stand. UKIP are clearly seen as being anti-Europe (indeed, I doubt most people would even be able to think up a single other issue they have a position on, except perhaps immigration). LibDems have been pro-Europe, but their support has collapsed recently and they may see this as a chance to make up lost ground by trying to intice people back to them as the major pro-Europe party. The SNP are pro-Europe generally (though again Independence from the UK is now centre stage for their policy), I don't know about PC in Wales. The Greens are generally pro-Europe too, although with a very different vision for European structures and roles than the current system.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Apparently Nigel Farage is my MEP. Never heard from him at all and not sure what sort of issue I would contact him about.
You need to find a human rights issue (what with there being a European Court just for that). Preferably one involving someone being deported from the UK. Then demand that he fulfil his duty in representing his constituents by campaigning in Europe to prevent deportation.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
But the ECHR is nothing directly to do with the EU.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Ah, but that means you can find out if Nigel Farage knows that.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Ok a bit off topic...but if the 2015 UK elections were held today, what would the results be? I've heard that the LibDems will likely be smashed, but will that mean a Labour majority? A Tory majority? Or another hung parliament?
Posts: 1537 | Registered: Mar 2010
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Heavenly Anarchist
Shipmate
# 13313
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
Ok a bit off topic...but if the 2015 UK elections were held today, what would the results be? I've heard that the LibDems will likely be smashed, but will that mean a Labour majority? A Tory majority? Or another hung parliament?
Small Labour majority according to UK Polling Report. This is one of my favourite political sites because it's purpose is purely to discuss polling and it is run by a YouGov political analyst.
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'I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.' Douglas Adams
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Posts: 2831 | From: Trumpington | Registered: Jan 2008
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
Most such predictions aren't worth much, but I would put the most likely outcome as a small Labour majority.
If Scotland votes for independence, the numbers shift a bit, but Labour can probably still get by with the support of Plaid Cymru. I think they'll do almost anything to avoid doing a deal with Clegg.
It's not impossible that things could shift enough in the next year to produce a Conservative majority, but some external event would have to happen to trigger that.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
If Scotland votes for independence the work of actually making that happen will take long enough that there will be another General Election before independence is achieved. At present, although the Yes campaign have offered a vision of an Independent Scotland retaining EU membership, the GBP, sharing in the costs of Research Councils etc there is no guarantee any of these will happen because the necessary negotiations can't start until after the votes are counted in September. I always wanted a two stage process - 1) a Scottish referendum "do you want the Scottish Government to enter negotiations on Independence?", 2) and UK referendum "do you want Independence on the terms negotiated by the Scottish Government?" But, you rarely (if ever) get what you want. It's like voting for an MP/MSP/MEP ... you vote for the person that's closest to your views on the issues most important to you, you won't get someone agreeing with you on everything unless you yourself stand as an independent (independent because otherwise your views will be compromised to an extent by needing to tow a party line).
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
It's not impossible that things could shift enough in the next year to produce a Conservative majority, but some external event would have to happen to trigger that.
Or we just drift towards the election with enough people feeling increasingly better off, and when it comes down to it not trusting the two Eds to run the country.
Labour's big problems are that its lead is nowhere near where it should be at this point in the cycle, the Budget proved that overall even that lead is pretty soft, they're actually *behind* on which party's leader would make the better Prime Minister, and *behind* on economic management (which are the two big ones). The difference between what people say now, and what they're going to do when it comes down to it in May 2015 are two different things.
FWIW, whilst being unaligned myself, I know a variety of Westminster staffers from all three parties, and from chats at the weekend I get the distinct impression that the Tories are really quite chipper in the past few weeks, and the Labourites are increasingly hitting the gin with, to paraphrase Labour commentator Dan Hodges? at the weekend (someone like that anyway), the distinct uneasy feeling that they may just have blown it....
The LibDems I know have pretty much started looking for other jobs.
As the Independent said at the weekend, next year's election could be the most interesting for decades, because no one really knows what's going to happen, and it's a brave person who'd call it now.
HST, I do increasingly think small Tory majority (if the Liberals collapse enough in some Blue/Orange marginals), or Tories as largest party overall in a hung Parliament. To the extent that I'm quite tempted to put actual money on it as the prices are pretty keen.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
Apparently Nigel Farage is my MEP. Never heard from him at all and not sure what sort of issue I would contact him about.
Which real ale to try next?
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Any else find it ironic that in the same week as possibly the worst PEB ever, even by the Labour Party, Ed Miliband is all over the news talking about his new-found intellectual self-confidence?
You couldn't make it up ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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