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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The curious phenomenon of 'celebrity Christians'
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South Coast Kevin
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# 16130
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Posted
Just read this blog post about the 'celebrity Christians' phenomenon and thought I'd put it up here to see what people think. The author Donald Miller said a little while ago that he rarely attends church services, and I think Rob Bell might have said the same at some point. This post gave me an insight into why they've taken that decision - from the article:
quote:
Miller explained that going to church for him was really difficult, because kind, good-willed people were constantly coming up to him asking him to help with their different projects, or for book-writing advice, or they just flooded him with requests to get together to talk. Donald Miller’s problem is that he is a celebrity.
Do you think this is a big problem in Christianity today? Do we have a massively unhealthy attitude towards Christians who've achieved some level of fame? Or are people like Miller and Bell being over-sensitive and selfish?
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My blog - wondering about Christianity in the 21st century, chess, music, politics and other bits and bobs.
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Baptist Trainfan
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# 15128
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Posted
Yes, I think it is a bit of a problem in Evangelicalism, which likes to show of its Christian "trophy converts", sometimes destroying them in the process.
I don't think it's a problem in MOTR Anglicanism (or the equivalent in other traditions) unless the person concerned is not just a "Christian" celebrity but a celebrity in the wider sense - in which case they are just as (or possibly less!) likely to be recognised in church as they are in a bar or a restaurant.
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
The term 'celebrity christian' has two possible meanings. One is 'a person who is primarily known as a celebrity who is also a christian' and 'someone who is primarily known within christian circles'. So the former might include the actor Stephen Baldwin or the footballer Jermain Defoe.
The latter might include the likes of Rob Bell, Vicky Beeching or Tom Wright.
The gist of the article makes it seems as though it is the latter group being talked about, though it I confess I've never heard of either Donald Miller or Jonathan Storment.
The latter group can come in for more unfair criticism particularly from hardliners. I would hope that there is always a church that can welcome them in, though it's an inevitable consequence of a broad church that there will be some who are insensitive to the particular challenges some individuals have that the rest of don't.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
I am in no way a 'celebrity Christian', and while I've been working very hard over the last few years to become 'notorious' and 'barely tolerated', there's a certain cachet in being a published author.
In my own church, I'm just me, which is right and proper, and evangelical Christianity has a very problematic relationship with art and artists anyway. The overlap between my readership and Christians is coincidental, too, so if I go to another shack, I'm almost exactly anonymous. If I was actually famous (say JK Rowling) then things would be different.
I have noticed, however, that my brother, who is A Prominent Baptist, is beginning to be recognised within the Christian sub-culture, and I think that's both interesting and slightly strange: I'm much more likely to be referred to as 'his brother' when people learn my surname.
Church has always been for me a place to sit, to be quiet, to sing and pray and serve, and to leave any worldly trappings behind. So I would fear any greater recognition I might gain: I'm just one of many, equally unworthy supplicants. I don't doubt that fame, for the want of a better word, changes both the famous and the fan, and not necessarily for the better.
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Forward the New Republic
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StevHep
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# 17198
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
The term 'celebrity christian' has two possible meanings. One is 'a person who is primarily known as a celebrity who is also a christian' and 'someone who is primarily known within christian circles'. So the former might include the actor Stephen Baldwin or the footballer Jermain Defoe.
The latter might include the likes of Rob Bell, Vicky Beeching or Tom Wright.
The gist of the article makes it seems as though it is the latter group being talked about, though it I confess I've never heard of either Donald Miller or Jonathan Storment.
The latter group can come in for more unfair criticism particularly from hardliners. I would hope that there is always a church that can welcome them in, though it's an inevitable consequence of a broad church that there will be some who are insensitive to the particular challenges some individuals have that the rest of don't.
Vicky Beeching is a celebrity Christian? Gosh. She follows me on twitter and I haven't followed back because I have no idea who she is.
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EtymologicalEvangelical
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# 15091
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Posted
I once committed a very grave sin against Christian celebrity culture. I was working for a particular Christian media organisation and I was on the phone to the wife of a certain Graham Kendrick (ever heard of him?). I made the unforgivable mistake of confessing to Mrs Kendrick that I had not heard of her husband's latest album, which elicited the rather petulant rejoinder that "you must be living a very sheltered life!"
I have to further confess that I still cannot remember the name of said album. Oh dear!
Well, I suppose I'd better just slink back into my little hermit's cell cut off from "the real world" of Kendrick albums and dirgy songs. Woe is me!! ![[Waterworks]](graemlins/bawling.gif)
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
I made the unforgivable mistake of confessing to Mrs Kendrick that I had not heard of her husband's latest album, which elicited the rather petulant rejoinder that "you must be living a very sheltered life!"
I must have missed the memo which made it compulsory. One problem Mrs Tor doesn't have is expecting everyone at church to have read my books.
But this does speak to a wider problem: a distantly-connected relative spends a lot of their time name-dropping 'famous' Christians into their conversations. I have heard of very few of them, let alone heard them speak, much to their consternation and obvious disappointment.
I don't know what I'm supposed to feel. Awe? Reverence? Sorry. I know 'famous' people from my own circle: they still need to piss after a couple of pints, and unless I've been very lucky, to a man and woman, they don't believe their own press.
(eta: that includes people you will have heard of like George RR Martin and Neil Gaiman)
[ 14. May 2014, 10:04: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]
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Forward the New Republic
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
If churches are making problems for celebrities then it is the church that has the problem.
Must confess here that we are blessed with a few celebs in the parish, some full time, some just with holiday homes.
The only time I can think of when it was a problem was when the previous incumbent thought of starting a Mothering Sunday sermon with a joke but, as he said, thought better of it when he glanced down from the pulpit to see one of the UK's most famous comedians there with his children.
(Partly shock, of course, because the comedian is usually an eight-o'clocker.)
Of course, if people see famous people where they don't expect them to be they may not be recognised: when said comedian helped me on a fete stall a few years ago the nearest he got to being recognised was one woman who said "You know, you look just like X, but a little more attractive".
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Adeodatus
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# 4992
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Posted
Is the problem to do with celebrity, or is it to do with people ho work in the arts? I'm the kind of artist who's struggling to cover my costs, but I still find that churches sometimes expect freebies - time, expertise, pieces of work. It's like they don't think "the arts" is real work that deserves real pay. But then, they're not alone in that belief.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
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Jay-Emm
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# 11411
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Posted
I know out adds an extra layer of complexity, but perhaps in intial announcement gm announces if spawned creatures can themselves spawn or not.
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Jay-Emm
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# 11411
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Posted
[wrong board, still good for my post count]
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Matt Black
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# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I am in no way a 'celebrity Christian', and while I've been working very hard over the last few years to become 'notorious' and 'barely tolerated', there's a certain cachet in being a published author.
You have your own Wikipedia entry...
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
Is the problem to do with celebrity, or is it to do with people ho work in the arts? I'm the kind of artist who's struggling to cover my costs, but I still find that churches sometimes expect freebies - time, expertise, pieces of work. It's like they don't think "the arts" is real work that deserves real pay. But then, they're not alone in that belief.
Some churches do the same for people in construction work. They think members of the congregation should do necessary repairs for free.
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Matt Black:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
I am in no way a 'celebrity Christian', and while I've been working very hard over the last few years to become 'notorious' and 'barely tolerated', there's a certain cachet in being a published author.
You have your own Wikipedia entry...
I strongly doubt, however, that the evangelical church will be rushing to claim me as one of their own... ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
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Forward the New Republic
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Bullfrog.
Prophetic Amphibian
# 11014
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Posted
Reminds me of an early Christian monk (Anthony of the Desert? Been too long since seminary) who became so popular that he kept fleeing further and further into the wilderness, but people kept following him and asking him for advice.
More recently, there was a time when preachers like Wesley and Whitefield were the cultural equivalent of rock stars who could pack, for instance, the Boston Common.
It's nothing new.
[ 14. May 2014, 12:32: Message edited by: Bullfrog. ]
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Some say that man is the root of all evil
Others say God's a drunkard for pain
Me, I believe that the Garden of Eden
Was burned to make way for a train. --Josh Ritter, Harrisburg
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Belle Ringer
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# 13379
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Posted
It's not churches, it's people.
I have a hobby of going to healing conferences. The stated goal of every speaker is to encourage us that every Christian can effectively pray for healing, and help us overcome inhibiting beliefs we have been taught about it.
They end with a dozen trained prayer teams offering prayer for specific healing - but seems like everyone wants to be prayed for by the speaker - the big name star - not the other prayer teams.
The organizers are trying to structure things to reduce the load on the main speaker but the people are flocking to him or her.
Something American - Western - or human? - about wanting to be near "the big name"? Secular culture is full of it, bus tours to places where the stars live, while movie stars try to hide behind dark glasses and high fences.
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Belle Ringer:
It's not churches, it's people.
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) Churches are a collection of people. At least they were the last time I checked.
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by South Coast Kevin:
Do you think this is a big problem in Christianity today? Do we have a massively unhealthy attitude towards Christians who've achieved some level of fame? Or are people like Miller and Bell being over-sensitive and selfish?
It's a problem sure enough that someone with a bit of clout or cash or a name gets feted. Not quite in keeping with what James says about "partiality"
Miller does seem a bit up himself though. "Look at me I'm rushed off my feet by people wanting me...."
[ 14. May 2014, 15:23: Message edited by: ExclamationMark ]
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by StevHep:
quote:
Originally posted by TheAlethiophile:
The term 'celebrity christian' has two possible meanings. One is 'a person who is primarily known as a celebrity who is also a christian' and 'someone who is primarily known within christian circles'. So the former might include the actor Stephen Baldwin or the footballer Jermain Defoe.
The latter might include the likes of Rob Bell, Vicky Beeching or Tom Wright.
The gist of the article makes it seems as though it is the latter group being talked about, though it I confess I've never heard of either Donald Miller or Jonathan Storment.
The latter group can come in for more unfair criticism particularly from hardliners. I would hope that there is always a church that can welcome them in, though it's an inevitable consequence of a broad church that there will be some who are insensitive to the particular challenges some individuals have that the rest of don't.
Vicky Beeching is a celebrity Christian? Gosh. She follows me on twitter and I haven't followed back because I have no idea who she is.
Vicky Beeching is a very well-known worship songwriter, theologian and now takes part in TV/radio debates on ethics/religion. Has come under fire recently for being an evangelical in favour of SSM.
She is probably not massively well-known in Catholic circles but extremely well-known in evangelical ones.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by StevHep:
[QUOTE]]Vicky Beeching is a celebrity Christian? Gosh. She follows me on twitter and I haven't followed back because I have no idea who she is.
daughter of Dr Beeching who closed railways?
Posts: 3845 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
ISTM as a relative outsider that a certain celebrity culture is one of the things that's provided evangelicalism with its buzz, that's helped to make it viable in a largely secular Western culture. It keeps people interested. So, for good or ill, I suppose the criticism has to be low key.
By comparison I think MOTR Protestantism suffers because it offers too few contemporary famous names that aren't highbrow theologians. IOW, it's harder to engage people at the popular level.
Having said that, I'm from a MOTR road background, and I've gone out of my way to hear 'famous' Christians speak. One of my regrets is not going to hear Lord Soper preach when I lived in London in the 90s. But he didn't seem so famous then - I'd never heard any Methodist in my circle talk about him!
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
Miller does seem a bit up himself though. "Look at me I'm rushed off my feet by people wanting me...."
I have a great deal of sympathy for him. I get requests to read over mss, cover letters, etc and for introductions to publishers and agents, most of which I (regretfully) turn down. If you start down that road, you end up with little time to actually do the the writing thing.
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Forward the New Republic
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Sipech
Shipmate
# 16870
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by StevHep:
[QUOTE]]Vicky Beeching is a celebrity Christian? Gosh. She follows me on twitter and I haven't followed back because I have no idea who she is.
daughter of Dr Beeching who closed railways?
No, but she has said she's a relative. I recall she got quizzed about it when she began her PhD studies.
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I try to be self-deprecating; I'm just not very good at it.
Twitter: http://twitter.com/TheAlethiophile
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by StevHep:
[QUOTE]]Vicky Beeching is a celebrity Christian? Gosh. She follows me on twitter and I haven't followed back because I have no idea who she is.
daughter of Dr Beeching who closed railways?
No relation
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Well that teaches me to rely on Wikipedia ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Out of interest, are there Catholic 'celebrity Christians' in the same way or is it an Evangelical phenomenon? I wonder if it's linked to how buying into the latest product is such a big thing in Evangelical culture. It's a much more aggressively capitalist strand of Christianity IME (the CoE is quite passive-aggressively capitalist mind).
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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StevHep
Shipmate
# 17198
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Posted
Catholic celebrity Christians? Well, leaving aside the occasional Pope the Americans seem big on Scott Hahn and Mother Angelica. I think though that we tend to prefer our celebs to be in heaven, like St Therese or St Faustina, from where they can offer us a good deal more assistance than the earthbound ones.
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
Also once they're in heaven they're generally less susceptible to being found rascally drunk in bed people they shouldn't be. And there's less chance of it going to their head.
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Hmmm the famous Catholics I can think of are people like Dorothy Day - not a saint (yet?) and would surely count as a celebrity within Christian circles when she was alive.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
Jade wrote:
quote:
Out of interest, are there Catholic 'celebrity Christians' in the same way or is it an Evangelical phenomenon? I wonder if it's linked to how buying into the latest product is such a big thing in Evangelical culture.
My impression is that Evangelicalism has more of a tendency toward backing up its claims through personal testimony than does Catholicism. And of course, to a certain type of mindset, personal testimony is more credible if it comes from a big-name celebrity than from Joe Nobody.
Someone who would probably qualify as a Catholic celebrity in the last century was Salvador Dali, who, after a career spent partly wallowing in blasphemous anti-clericalism, swam the Tiber in middle age, infusing his later work with reverential tributes to Jesus, Mary, and the saints.
In addition to the more recognizably Daliesque pieces, he also illustrated a Bible, in a style more reminiscent of Abstract Expressionism.
I've seen a copy of that Bible, and it is quite impressive. Amazing how at-home Dali could be in a style that was not typically his own.
[ 14. May 2014, 17:51: Message edited by: Stetson ]
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Saul the Apostle
Shipmate
# 13808
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Posted
Sex, money and power are as present in church circles as in the secular arena.
Celebrity of course is relative.
I once disrespected a very well known Christian lead singer by interrupting him and talking to someone he was talking to. He was obviously peed off about this and told one of his other group members. The famous singer's keyboard player made a point of doing exactly the same to me not once but twice. This was done some time after I'd done it to his mate.
Talk about NOT turning the other cheek - wouldn't be surprised if they snort coke and do other things secular groups do too ''backstage''. Although they've now split up for sedate middle age. ![[Devil]](graemlins/devil.gif)
I'm just a bolshy scouser and don't really give a **** anyway, but aforementioned famous Christian singer is a multi millionaire and sends his kids to private school, which of course he has every right to do.
But this well known Christian (ex) band is generally well respected and they appear to be ''humble'' celebrities.
But I can't tell the difference really and personally still don't give a **** .
Saul
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
Martin Sheen is perhaps the only celebrity RC who comes to mind. Mel Gibson, whom I believe is now affiliated to a sedevacantist group, was among the RC celebrity crowd for a while. I don't think that there is anyone with the profile of Bing Crosby these days.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
Martin Sheen is perhaps the only celebrity RC who comes to mind. Mel Gibson, whom I believe is now affiliated to a sedevacantist group, was among the RC celebrity crowd for a while. I don't think that there is anyone with the profile of Bing Crosby these days.
Living Celebrity Catholics from Wikipedia quote:
[long list removed, see link]
And then I got board.
ETA: Sorry those are all Yanks. It was the first link for celebrity Catholics and then, you know, bored.
[ 16. May 2014, 05:04: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
Lilbuddha, my hostly take is that your list was far too long in relation to your actual post content, as well as being full of broken references. By its length, I believe Wikipedia's rules on reusing its content should apply, and I'm not convinced your reposting in this way complied with them. So I have replaced your edited list with a link to the full one.
In short, everyone please note once again that quoting extensive content from elsewhere is not encouraged, that Ship policy is to err on the side of caution in terms of copyright issues, and that we much prefer to read what you have to say here rather than things we could have read elsewhere.
Any such quotes should be properly sourced (with a hyperlink wherever possible), consist of brief extracts, and not make up too much of your post. Thank you.
/hosting
[ 16. May 2014, 05:25: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Apologies, should have used better judgement.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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An die Freude
Shipmate
# 14794
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Posted
Just to throw in another interesting comparison, two of the most frequent signatories of debate articles from the Swedish Humanist Society, as well as participants in events to garner attention, are Christer Fuglesang, the first Swede in space, and Björn Ulvaeus of ABBA.
Whereas Fuglesang has a doctor's degree in physics, neither of these are known for their massive philosophical skills, so I'd say evangelicals are not the only group using celebrities as eye-catchers to spread their philosophies.
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"I too am not a bit tamed, I too am untranslatable."
Walt Whitman
Formerly JFH
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Holy Smoke
Shipmate
# 14866
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Posted
I know it's early in the morning, but the only names I've come up with so far are Gerry Adams and Tony Blair.
And the Pope, of course.
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
hosting/
Lilbuddha, my hostly take is that your list was far too long in relation to your actual post content, as well as being full of broken references. By its length, I believe Wikipedia's rules on reusing its content should apply, and I'm not convinced your reposting in this way complied with them. So I have replaced your edited list with a link to the full one.
/hosting
But the link doesn't work -- too much extra stuff at the end. Try this.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
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Saul the Apostle
Shipmate
# 13808
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Posted
Nobody has mentioned that magnificent English trait of self depreciation yet.
True celebrity sees and understands the passing nature and wafer thin veneer of celebrity surely?
Always remember the well know British speaker Jeff Lucas, who had the pride attack at Spring Harvest some years ago and he was enjoying the adulation as he walked around the campus at Butlins. Then it hit him ''Big in Butlin's for a week.'' The self depreciation kicked in and it burst Jeff Lucas's bubble.
Oh that it would burst a few more bubbles.
Saul the Apostle
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
Saul the Apostle
I get the impression that you really dislike 'celebrity Christians'....
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Does His Holiness The Pope count as a 'celebrity Christian'?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
True celebrity sees and understands the passing nature and wafer thin veneer of celebrity surely?
"True" celebrity? Celebrity is merely being known. Celebrity confers no special attributes. If one does not have strength of character, becoming well known doesn't change this. People do not change when becoming famous, it is more that potential is realised.
One's character is unknown if never tested.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Saul the Apostle
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
True celebrity sees and understands the passing nature and wafer thin veneer of celebrity surely?
"True" celebrity? Celebrity is merely being known. Celebrity confers no special attributes. If one does not have strength of character, becoming well known doesn't change this. People do not change when becoming famous, it is more that potential is realised.
One's character is unknown if never tested.
Fair point, I think I should rephrase my original comment.
A balanced individual might have been a better phrase. I suppose I was trying to express the fleeting nature of fame and celebrity itself. Also, how the mature handle celebrity status.
Maybe as an example an actor in his/her 50s and they become a ''star'' but they're well rooted and grounded, celebrity may have little effect upon them.
Svetlana, I despise celebrity Christians it is an oxymoron surely?
Saul
[ 16. May 2014, 14:43: Message edited by: Saul the Apostle ]
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
Svetlana, I despise celebrity Christians it is an oxymoron surely?
Saul
Ah, that's why you think it's okay to be rude to them! I understand now.
Maybe you need to join one of those Nonconformist churches where all the really 'famous' people died ages ago. The Methodists deliberately sought not to let anyone become as dominant in the movement as John Wesley. The URC have their important and productive people, but which of them is a celebrity? And the Unitarian dynasties of the past are no more. But hanging out with evangelicals is clearly a no-no for the likes of you!
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Doc Tor
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
Svetlana, I despise celebrity Christians it is an oxymoron surely?
Despise is a very strong word, isn't it?
People who are actually good at something (as opposed to those who are famous for being famous) have celebrity status thrust upon them whether they want it or not, whether they know how to handle it well or not, have complete strangers coming up to them when they think they're 'off duty' and being over-familiar, rude and/or aggressive, then telling the world how they 'met X and he ignored me/told me to bugger off'.
Celebrities who are Christians, Celebrities who are celebrities because they do something like preaching or are performers or, I don't know, are bishops or the Pope, are still just people who sometimes act like idiots.
If what you despise is idiots, they don't have to be a celebrity to be one.
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Forward the New Republic
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Saul the Apostle
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
Svetlana, I despise celebrity Christians it is an oxymoron surely?
Despise is a very strong word, isn't it?
People who are actually good at something (as opposed to those who are famous for being famous) have celebrity status thrust upon them whether they want it or not, whether they know how to handle it well or not, have complete strangers coming up to them when they think they're 'off duty' and being over-familiar, rude and/or aggressive, then telling the world how they 'met X and he ignored me/told me to bugger off'.
Celebrities who are Christians, Celebrities who are celebrities because they do something like preaching or are performers or, I don't know, are bishops or the Pope, are still just people who sometimes act like idiots.
If what you despise is idiots, they don't have to be a celebrity to be one.
That's a very good point. You are right.
Probably saying this badly, but as I see it, humility and a certain egalitarianism are requirements for Christians surely?
I think Jesus gave us a model of servant leadership?
What gets up my nostrils is the copying of worldly celebrity traits and styles in a community which should be flatter, and far less prone to copying the ''world''.
If you see what I mean?
Like I said , one of my weaknesses is I am a bolshy scouser so i actually like pricking someone's balloon; and that can be a bit naughty but I am getting better ![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
Well slowly anyway.
Saul
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Saul the Apostle:
Probably saying this badly, but as I see it, humility and a certain egalitarianism are requirements for Christians surely?
I think Jesus gave us a model of servant leadership?
What gets up my nostrils is the copying of worldly celebrity traits and styles in a community which should be flatter, and far less prone to copying the ''world'.
Yes, but two observations.
Firstly, most of those who are considered celebrities are not leaders or in any leadership role. I'm certainly not, so why do I need to model servant leadership? I attempt to conduct my professional dealings fairly and honestly (which is the only way I'm a 'Christian' writer), but I'm not in charge of anything at my church.
Secondly, if other Christians treated the celebrities amongst them like regular pewsitters, that would be brilliant. What other people think of my limited notoriety is their problem, not mine. I certainly don't want to have to deal with it on a Sunday morning.
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Forward the New Republic
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Sarasa
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# 12271
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Posted
I always think of Frank Skinner as a celebrity Catholic Christian. He said in his biography he didn't sign autographs in church as he thinks of that as 'God's Gig'.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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cliffdweller
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Posted
We have a major sports celebrity who attends our church. Our church is uniquely geeky/ bookish-- probably the only place in the city where he can go w/o being recognized. It took us months of his attending here before we even figured out who he was. I'm guessing that anonymity is part of the appeal of our shack.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
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Saul the Apostle
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Posted
Doc Tor said: quote:
Firstly, most of those who are considered celebrities are not leaders or in any leadership role. I'm certainly not, so why do I need to model servant leadership? I attempt to conduct my professional dealings fairly and honestly (which is the only way I'm a 'Christian' writer), but I'm not in charge of anything at my church.
Secondly, if other Christians treated the celebrities amongst them like regular pewsitters, that would be brilliant. What other people think of my limited notoriety is their problem, not mine. I certainly don't want to have to deal with it on a Sunday morning.
Yes, again fair point. I suppose I was referring specifically to folk who do in fact put themselves ''up front'' the microphone holders and often prima donna musicians who are ''up themselves '' big time and take the ''lime light''. Then when I see this adulation (common in the charismatic/Pentecostal circles I used to meander in) it sort of makes me get into bolshy scouser mode - once again.
I know for example Cliff Richard used to slip in the back of Gerald Coates' church in Surrey somewhere, and I surmise from that he wasn't looking for celebrity, rather looking for spiritual input. I think one has to clearly respect that, but when one takes a public persona then the bubble can be pricked a little.
Saul
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"I cannot forecast to you the action of Russia. It is a riddle, wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma; but perhaps there is a key. That key is Russian national interest."
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Augustine the Aleut
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Posted
I knew a moderately well-known actor in Toronto (at one point popular in Australia, from which country he received an astonishing amount of lurid mash notes from teenagers) who used to frequent an early service at a downtown church and told me that he really liked that nobody seemed to know him.
And a former NHL player told me that he attended services only at his old family church in his (name of small Ontario university city supplied) home town, as anywhere else he would have to deal with autograph seekers and telephone-camera snaps. He said that when you start out, there's a thrill to this, but after a while, he preferred to be nobody.
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