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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: US, Do We Need You to Lead Us?
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
If you do the math on this - the US fares slightly better than Canada and MUCH better than Britain in minority representation in government vs. minority population. So when we're talking about voting on foreign policy - this does matter.
How has the presence of Palestinian-Americans helped Palestine? How has the presence of Syrian-Americans helped Syria? How has the presence of Egyptian-Americans helped Egypt? How has the presence of Mexican-Americans helped Mexico?
I could go on, but you get the point.
As has been noted, the ability for the legislature to actually *do* anything is severely curtailed in the US, due to vested interests.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
I will never cease to be perplexed by how much non-Americans give a shit what units of measurement Americans use. Does it really come up often enough in their everyday lives that it always constitutes the prime evidence of American inferiority on these threads? Do people really hear me say I measure 6 feet 2 inches tall and weigh 168 pounds and think "This system of measurement really is madness, this American tyranny over world affairs must be STOPPED!" I just can't fathom it.
I like to cook things.
A good 60% of the recipes I can find are from American sources. This means that I must:
- convert from pounds/ounces into grams
- keep in mind that an American "cup" is not the same size as an Australian "cup"
- be prepared to deal with things like "a stick of butter", with no explanation given as to how much that is
- convert from Fahrenheit into Celsius
And all this just to make biscuits.
As Orfeo said, you have the luxury of not having to think about us; we have to think about you.
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
A good 60% of the recipes I can find are from American sources. This means that I must:
- convert from pounds/ounces into grams
- keep in mind that an American "cup" is not the same size as an Australian "cup"
- be prepared to deal with things like "a stick of butter", with no explanation given as to how much that is
- convert from Fahrenheit into Celsius
And all this just to make biscuits.
Several US food publications including America's Test Kitchen and the website Serious Eats constantly moan that Americans tend to use volume instead of weight-based measurements. Most serious cooks I know in the US have scales at home.
BTW I come across lots of recipes from Australia that use strange terms like "capsicum" so it goes both ways. You can't expect every recipe to be written for a global audience. Besides measurements many ingredients aren't available in different countries either.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
You can't expect every recipe to be written for a global audience.
Didn't say I do. But Zach82 was asking if America's measurement system really comes up in the daily lives of non-Americans... and yes, yes it does.
[ 30. May 2014, 10:28: Message edited by: St Deird ]
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
You can't expect every recipe to be written for a global audience.
Didn't say I do. But Zach82 was asking if America's measurement system really comes up in the daily lives of non-Americans... and yes, yes it does.
What percentage of non-Americans do you think look at American recipes on a daily basis? Surely this is not a "daily life" issue for the majority of people.
People just like to complain about America, not saying you are one of them but Zach82 is right. There's something odd about people caring what Americans use to weigh themselves. Let alone saying it's an indication that America is isolated and doesn't care about the rest of the world. Sorry but I have to call that a stretch. India has its own numerical system that is not aligned with the one everyone else uses but I don't see anyone up at night concerned about 1 billion people using numbers like 1,50,000 (yes that's where the commas go).
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
What the heck do percentages have to do with anything?
They have to do with diversity. Which, as I've pointed out, is your attempt at justifying leadership. Not mine.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
India has its own numerical system that is not aligned with the one everyone else uses but I don't see anyone up at night concerned about 1 billion people using numbers like 1,50,000 (yes that's where the commas go).
Because we don't see a lot of material that originates from those 1 billion people. I thought I made it pretty clear that it's not merely the origin of the material but the fact that it is widely distributed.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
India has its own numerical system that is not aligned with the one everyone else uses but I don't see anyone up at night concerned about 1 billion people using numbers like 1,50,000 (yes that's where the commas go).
Because we don't see a lot of material that originates from those 1 billion people. I thought I made it pretty clear that it's not merely the origin of the material but the fact that it is widely distributed.
Saying that America is out of touch and using Imperial measurements as proof of that is inappropriate. That is the point that was made on page one of this discussion - not that the proliferation of American measurements is problematic, but that the fact that they are different is evidence of its lack of concern for the rest of the world.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
What the heck do percentages have to do with anything?
They have to do with diversity. Which, as I've pointed out, is your attempt at justifying leadership. Not mine.
If a country has the largest diaspora group of an ethnicity living in the United States, then the overall percentage of the US population that they make up is not relevant.
The largest diaspora group will have the most influence.
That's why the IRA, Armenia, Israel etc. look to their network in the US first when trying to push policy. And for funding this is particularly important.
From Wiki:
Jewish diaspora: US 5.75m; Canada 375,000
African diaspora: US 42m; Canada 785,000
Indian diaspora: US 3m; Canada 1.2m (UK 1.4m)
Chinese diaspora: US 3.8m; Canada 1.5m
...etc.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
But that's NOT what 'diversity' means. Diversity is a measure of what's happening in America. Diaspora is a measure of what's happening to the country of origin.
If you're going to claim that America is diverse, at least understand what it is that you're claiming. What you're claiming now is certainly relevant, but it simply isn't the same thing.
Really, the main thing you're claiming now about America is that it's big.
If I have a van with 5,000 apples in it and 200 oranges, and a crate with 50 apples, 30 oranges, 20 lemons, 40 pears and 5 limes in it, it is undoubtedly true that the van has more oranges. It is also undoubtedly not true that the van is more diverse than the crate.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
I would think the sheer ineptitude of United States foreign policy would be evidence enough that it isn't a great world leader.
But instead we veer right down the path of discussing the inherent inferiority of American culture because granny wrote down her recipe for peanut butter cookies without considering "What will the Australians think?"
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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St Deird
Shipmate
# 7631
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
But instead we veer right down the path of discussing the inherent inferiority of American culture because granny wrote down her recipe for peanut butter cookies without considering "What will the Australians think?"
Again - nowhere did I say that American culture was inherently inferior (or inferior at all, for that matter). ALL I said was that American measurements do in fact have an impact on my everyday life.
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They're not hobbies; they're a robust post-apocalyptic skill-set.
Posts: 319 | From: the other side of nowhere | Registered: Jun 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
Again - nowhere did I say that American culture was inherently inferior (or inferior at all, for that matter). ALL I said was that American measurements do in fact have an impact on my everyday life.
That is why measurement systems came up in the first place.
Though to be frank, your objection that you are desperate to make an American recipe for artichoke dip, but unable to bear the measurement system it uses still seems silly to me. Just use another recipe if it's so bad. According to Orfeo, that's just a sign of the problem, of course.
[ 30. May 2014, 13:36: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Zach, if when people answer your question as to why it matters, your only response is to engage in hyperbole and act like we've said it's the end of the world, this is going to be pointless.
If you look at where I first mentioned the difference in measurement, I was flagging it as trivial. I described it as everyday to signal that it was NOT some world-ending catastrophe. So why are you treating us as if we claimed it was?
[ 30. May 2014, 13:44: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But that's NOT what 'diversity' means. Diversity is a measure of what's happening in America. Diaspora is a measure of what's happening to the country of origin.
For the love of God...
Just because Canada and Australia have loads of immigrants, doesn't mean they are diverse. Most immigrants to both nations are from Asia.
The US has about 40% of its immigrants coming from the Asia, another 40% from the Americas and 10% from Africa.
There isn't a single African or Latin American country in Canada's top ten origin countries.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But that's NOT what 'diversity' means. Diversity is a measure of what's happening in America. Diaspora is a measure of what's happening to the country of origin.
For the love of God...
Just because Canada and Australia have loads of immigrants, doesn't mean they are diverse. Most immigrants to both nations are from Asia.
The US has about 40% of its immigrants coming from the Asia, another 40% from the Americas and 10% from Africa.
There isn't a single African or Latin American country in Canada's top ten origin countries.
Exactly where are you getting your figures from? I'm far from convinced you're getting the Australian figures from anything I linked to. I've no idea where you Canadian figures come from, and the official US data I can find simply says that you are wrong, and that over half of your immigrants come from Latin America, only 28% from Asia, and just 4% from Africa.
I posted 3 links to Australian data precisely to show that our immigrants are NOT all coming from one part of the world. That was when it was suggested they were coming from English-speaking countries. Now you're claiming they're mostly from Asia. That isn't true, either.
[ 30. May 2014, 13:55: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
Just because Canada and Australia have loads of immigrants, doesn't mean they are diverse. Most immigrants to both nations are from Asia.
The US has about 40% of its immigrants coming from the Asia, another 40% from the Americas and 10% from Africa.
There isn't a single African or Latin American country in Canada's top ten origin countries.
Which is yet another relevant point, but not what you were originally claiming - at least if it was your original claim it was very porrly expressed. You originally claimed the US is culturally highly diverse because of the number of immigrants, then because of the proportion of people from some nations who are now in the US. And, now it's because the number of cultures represented in the US is larger and from a wider range of locations than other countries.
I suspect that the number of people born outwith a country, or born to parents who were born elsewhere, is a poor measure of cultural diversity - whether that's expressed as a number of people or proportion of the population. If those people were born in countries culturally very similar then they haven't significantly added to the cultural diversity of the nation. On the otherhand, some nations represent a wide range of different cultures even without immigrants.
A more reasonable estimation would be how many distinct cultures are represented in a country. Of course, first you need to define what constitutes a "distinct culture" (is Yorkshire culture distinct from Lancastrian?) and also what you mean by "represented in a country" - it would probably require the presence of an identifiable community rather than just some isolated individuals or families, but how many people does it take to form a community?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Zach, if when people answer your question as to why it matters...
I was only speaking of a generality of how these threads tend to go. I understand that you said it was only a sign of American refusal to accept good ideas from other cultures.
I just think that's pretty silly, having been to Europe and talked on these forums for years and seen for myself how much everyone else tense to confuse the concepts "Unfamiliar" and "Bad" as much as any American.
Though really, if you had come to this country without your own cultural presuppositions, you might have seen how nuts Americans are for things not-American. Oh well.
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
Zach, you have absolutely no idea WHAT I saw and didn't see while spending 3 months in North America.
I'll happily list for you a few things I didn't see. Guns. Goodness, imagine my shock. Not a single person ended up waving a gun in my face. And here was I with my preconceptions, imagining it would be a weekly event.
Oh yeah. You have absolutely no idea what my preconceptions were, either.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:02: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
Which is yet another relevant point, but not what you were originally claiming - at least if it was your original claim it was very porrly expressed.
No offense but I thought this was obvious.
Anyone with a passing familiarity with Canada and Australia knows that there are few African or Latino people in those countries, and that the vast majority of their immigrants are Asians or Europeans.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Zach, you have absolutely no idea WHAT I saw and didn't see while spending 3 months in North America.
You clearly didn't see the manga section at the bookstore, the sushi restaurants on every corner, the pains coffee shops go through to seem Italian, or the mania for Harry Potter if you are going to claim that Americans don't like foreign things. I can't see how you missed them, but apparently you did.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:04: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Zach, you have absolutely no idea WHAT I saw and didn't see while spending 3 months in North America.
You clearly didn't see the manga section at the bookstore, the sushi restaurants on every corner, the pains coffee shops go through to seem Italian, or the mania for Harry Potter if you are going to claim that Americans don't like foreign things. I can't see how you missed them, but apparently you did.
The American unfamiliarity with European-style coffee and absence of a cafe culture is legendary, actually. And was experienced by me regularly when trying to get a coffee. Thank you for reminding me, as I'd temporarily forgotten that WAS one of the things I observed.
Melbourne cafe culture, inherited from Italian and Greek emigration, is also legendary. As is the failure and collapse of Starbucks in Australia after it plonked a big store in Lygon St and expected them to switch from European-style coffee to American.
I actually already mentioned to you that Harry Potter was changed for your consumption. Various bits of terminology were Americanised to make it more palatable. The title of the first book isn't even the same! As I've pointed out, television shows and films are regularly Americanised to make them appealing.
Yes, you've got sushi. Manga I couldn't comment on.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:14: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
So orfeo also cannot understand the difference between "unfamiliar" and "bad." At least when it comes to coffee and systems of measurement.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:22: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
So orfeo also cannot understand the difference between "unfamiliar" and "bad."
If you do some Googling you will find plenty of evidence that American coffee IS widely regarded as bad, and that this is finally changing. It's hardly my individual, personal opinion.
One of the ironies being that in places like New York, the change is being led by Australians and New Zealanders opening up shops to great success.
As for systems of measurement, the badness simply lies in not combining base 10 numbers with base 10 measurement units. It's already been pointed out by others why shifting decimal points is much quicker and easier than calculating fractions. If we had a number system that was base 8 or base 12, then many of the Imperial units would be great. We don't. We use decimal counting. It makes sense to use decimal measurement purely for that reason.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:25: Message edited by: orfeo ]
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
Everybody please note:
The OP is about whether people feel the need to be led by the US.
It is not
- a pretext to start a pond war
- a pretext for personal squabbles
- a pretext for any other non-Purgatorial stupidity.
Get back on track, take your differences to Hell, or expect to see this entire thread banished there.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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seekingsister
Shipmate
# 17707
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Melbourne cafe culture, inherited from Italian and Greek emigration, is also legendary. As is the failure and collapse of Starbucks in Australia after it plonked a big store in Lygon St and expected them to switch from European-style coffee to American.
The summer event of the year where I grew up was not the county fair, but the Feast of St. Anthony, brought over by the Italian immigrants, who you may be shocked to learn are more plentiful in the US than in Melbourne.
I was recently in New Orleans and I would wager there are few cities in the world with as diverse and rich a cultural heritage as that town - if any. Native American, African, European, and Asian (one of the largest Vietnamese populations now) - and that's a small American city. I grew up in the suburbs and Hanukkah and Diwali were as big as Christmas.
The US looks like the world, more so than any other developed country I've spent time in. So as global leaders go, we could do a lot worse. Someone living in Turkey or China or Brazil can find Americans who look like them and speak their language. And not just as migrant workers - in prominent roles. They'd be harder pressed to do so in the other potential superpowers.
Posts: 1371 | From: London | Registered: May 2013
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
The problem with picking apart other cultures to find inferiorities is that a place of judgment is a superior one, one that people should be more reluctant to take. Thankfully, the foreigners I meet very rarely adopt this superior tone. To my face at least.
Which is why, I imagine, Americans have been reluctant to justify their countries place of world leadership on this thread. We just don't feel very superior these days.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:34: Message edited by: Zach82 ]
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St Deird:
I like to cook things.
A good 60% of the recipes I can find are from American sources. This means that I must:
- convert from pounds/ounces into grams
- keep in mind that an American "cup" is not the same size as an Australian "cup"
- be prepared to deal with things like "a stick of butter", with no explanation given as to how much that is
- convert from Fahrenheit into Celsius
And all this just to make biscuits.
As Orfeo said, you have the luxury of not having to think about us; we have to think about you.
Okay, picky picky I'm being; but I get the same problems in reverse here in America, when I try to figure out metric measurements, gas mark whatever (instead of degrees), and what the heck golden syrup is. Best just to accept it as part of the fascinating world culture that is now available via the Internet, and use Google a lot. (No, I don't want you folks rewriting your recipes for me, the oddity is part of the fun!) So yes, we have to think about you--and yes,I find it rather a pleasure.
[ 30. May 2014, 14:41: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Zach82
Shipmate
# 3208
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Okay, picky picky I'm being; but I get the same problems in reverse here in America, when I try to figure out metric measurements, gas mark whatever (instead of degrees), and what the heck golden syrup is. Best just to accept it as part of the fascinating world culture that is now available via the Internet, and use Google a lot. (No, I don't want you folks rewriting your recipes for me, the oddity is part of the fun!) So yes, we have to think about you--and yes,I find it rather a pleasure.
I was going to say the same. Using metric recipes is as simple as clicking a button on my scale or turning my measuring cup around to see the metrics lines. But, you know, unequal exchanges and all that.
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Don't give up yet, no, don't ever quit/ There's always a chance of a critical hit. Ghost Mice
Posts: 9148 | From: Boston, MA | Registered: Aug 2002
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EtymologicalEvangelical
Shipmate
# 15091
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Candide
The US letting its chief rivals continue their foreign policies unopposed, would be a far greater threat to world security.
And what foreign policies would they be, might I ask?
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You can argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome': but you neither can nor need argue with a man who says, 'Rice is unwholesome, but I'm not saying this is true'. CS Lewis
Posts: 3625 | From: South Coast of England | Registered: Sep 2009
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Okay, picky picky I'm being; but I get the same problems in reverse here in America, when I try to figure out metric measurements, gas mark whatever (instead of degrees), and what the heck golden syrup is.
Picky picky to you, too. Surely nobody, anywhere, just quotes oven temperatures in gas marks? Otherwise all those people with electric ovens have a problem. If you were offered a choice between gas mark and Celsius, but wanted Fahrenheit, I could understand it.
Oh, and if you don't have a local source for golden syrup, you can buy it from a well-known e-commerce outfit named after a long river in South America.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Um, hello? I called myself picky, not you. Get over it.
As for people not giving recipes in terms of gas mark only, you obviously haven't searched for the same recipes I did. And anyway, why should you care? I indicated that I found the situation more amusing (and pleasant) than the reverse.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
hosting/
After hostly discussion, the consensus is that this thread is not even going to get the option of Hell. Raise the level of debate, people, or see it locked.
/hosting
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Candide
Apprentice
# 15755
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by EtymologicalEvangelical:
quote:
Originally posted by Candide
The US letting its chief rivals continue their foreign policies unopposed, would be a far greater threat to world security.
And what foreign policies would they be, might I ask?
I'm fairly sure you know. But I'll play the game: Russian and Chinese expansionism are the examples that come to mind the quickest. There are plenty of others, in particular regional powers that would be delighted to flex their muscles more.
I'm guessing the counterclaim might be that these don't really do anything that the US doesn't. Which is not a point completely without a kernel of truth - for instance, the justification for the invasion of Iraq was severely lacking. Still, a free press and a reasonably functional method of election, means that the leaders who commit such acts tend to answer for it. Which is a lot more than Liu Xiaobo is allowed to.
Posts: 36 | From: Norway | Registered: Jul 2010
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moron
Shipmate
# 206
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
If you do some Googling you will find plenty of evidence that American coffee IS widely regarded as bad, and that this is finally changing.
Dear orgeo: it has previously come to my attention some find it bad form to CAPITALIZE words needlessly.
Just a friendly word of advice - please carry on.
[damn spell check ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif) ]
Posts: 4236 | From: Bentonville | Registered: May 2001
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Kelly Alves
Bunny with an axe
# 2522
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Posted
Moron, there is no way you are going to make me believe you didn't see what Eutychus wrote up there. Re-read what he wrote, attack the issue instead of other's posting style, and knock it off.
Next person who makes a personal comment is telling us "please consider my possible need for shore leave." Believe me, we will err on the side of supplying it.
Kelly Alves
Admin
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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.
Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002
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