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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Why can't I believe this?
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Do you want to be happy?
As the religious delight in pointing out, happiness has nothing to do with it. We were never promised happiness.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Yeah, but do you above all want to be happy?
I guess we forget that that is what we all want.
We give up. Experience overwhelms hope.
God is going to make everyone happy. Everyone. Who asks. Or who answers.
That's what prodigal dads want to do isn't it?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
Does it help to remind onesself that there is a difference between weakness, which is an inescapable part of the human condition (and as such must have been experienced by God in Christ), and deliberate wickedness?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Deliberate wickedness is mere weakness. A peccadillo. One doesn't have far to go in steps of weakness to get there. It takes very little effort or lack of it. Jesus knew, saw, felt that. Looked in to His 110% human heart.
We are ALL innocent in our darkest depravity until PROVED ineluctably to be otherwise.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
So Hitler, or Stalin, or Pol Pot, were acting out of mere weakness, were they?
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Aye. The gap between them and us together and God is what in comparison? A psychologist friend visited a maximum security prison down the road from me. The governor told him 'they' were having a bad day. My friend looked concerned, thinking riot. The governor noticed and said no, that the vast majority of them had had a bad day but it just hadn't ended. He acknowledged that there were evil men there, beyond that category. It's not far beyond.
Ones society and security and control doesn't have to lapse much does it? And now Jesus has become as Pol Pot and Hitler and Stalin He won't rest until He has not just seen Himself in them, as He does, but they do.
[ 14. June 2014, 16:18: Message edited by: Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
If I have understood you correctly, MPCnot, I probably agree with you. But H, S and PP would first have to be brought see themselves as God sees them, if they can endure that without self-destructing. And the human race surely has an infinite capacity for self-deception.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Do you want to be happy?
As the religious delight in pointing out, happiness has nothing to do with it. We were never promised happiness.
How about John 15:11
quote:
These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
and John 16:24
quote:
Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.
They are both kind of like promises.
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A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.
Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Ohhhhh, we certainly agree Eirenist. You understand me just fine. AH, S and PP (what an endearing nickname!) are yet to see themselves as the joy of God (nice one WH!).
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Paul.
Shipmate
# 37
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin PC not & Ship's Biohazard:
Do you want to be happy?
As the religious delight in pointing out, happiness has nothing to do with it. We were never promised happiness.
How about John 15:11
quote:
These things I have spoken to you so that My joy may be in you, and that your joy may be made full.
and John 16:24
quote:
Until now you have asked for nothing in My name; ask and you will receive, so that your joy may be made full.
They are both kind of like promises.
Add them to the list I guess.
Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004
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Jude
Shipmate
# 3033
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Posted
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
quote:
First, I have no idea what love is. (Complicated by the fact that words often seem to mean something totally different when applied to God - e.g. "justice": infinite punishment for a finite transgression. Hm...)
Many people seem to equate justice with punishment. But what it really means is fairness.
Nobody has actually told me that God doesn't love me. But it has been implied, that I am too sinful, or lacking in faith (itself a sin) to be truly accepted by Him.
Posts: 233 | From: A town with four parishes | Registered: Jul 2002
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
W Hyatt - I'm sure a theologian will be along in a minute to tell us that in a theological context, "joy" means something subtly different from what it does in normal usage. Theologically, it probably involves being hit with a sock full of wet sand or something.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
How can there be injustice when all we've ever lost will be more than restored? Anything else is vengeance. Adeodatus DON'T LISTEN TO THE BASTARDS! Projecting their sodding misery. Bless them.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jude:
Nobody has actually told me that God doesn't love me. But it has been implied, that I am too sinful, or lacking in faith (itself a sin) to be truly accepted by Him.
I think you are looking at this the wrong way around. Jesus Christ invites us to accept Him as our Lord and Savior. By doing so, we are saved because of God's amazing grace. All our sins are washed clean by the precious blood Christ shed for us on the Cross. Does that not illustrate the depth of God's love for you?
Consider the parable of the prodigal son. There is no such thing as being so sinful that one is beyond God's capacity to forgive.
Where the idea that mere doubt was a sin came from, is beyond me.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
There's two main reasons I find it difficult to believe God loves me.
First, I have no idea what love is. (Complicated by the fact that words often seem to mean something totally different when applied to God - e.g. "justice": infinite punishment for a finite transgression. Hm...)
Second, all through my life, my "brother" and "sister" Christians have taken delight in telling me he doesn't love me, or at least that he doesn't want my company. I've had everyone from St Paul to Fred Phelps send me that message, so who am I to question?
(Bitter? Me? Damn right.)
It is not really correct to think of God's judgment in terms of Him seeking to punish us. Sin is anathema to God. If we choose to embrace sin instead of God, then we cannot live in His presence. Thus, we are inflicting punishment on ourselves through the exercise of our own free will.
As for the latter part, you have either met Christians that misinterpret Scripture, (e.g., Fred Phelps), or you are misinterpreting what they are saying (e.g., St. Paul). Anyone that "delights" in telling others the falsehood that God does not love you is a malevolent and wicked creature.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
Posts: 285 | From: The Heav'n Rescued Land | Registered: Apr 2014
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
God embraces sin.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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