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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Hospitality and Dress Codes
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
My usual expectations in the UK are that if morning dress is specified, then it's usually only for immediate family and attendants - not for all guests. Only my s-in-law had a morning dress wedding, and knowing our finances was happy to stump up for hire, so I opted for full highland with family tartan which came in at the same price, and which she was v. happy with.
If you actually specified "Morning Dress" on the invitation, then it must apply to all guests. As others have mentioned, it is widely accepted that those without morning dress may wear lounge suits without giving offense. It is worth pointing out that the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge specified "Uniform, Morning Coat, or Lounge Suit".
It is, I agree, a fairly common practice to hire morning dress for the wedding party and immediate family and expect the rest of the guests to wear suits, but there would be no need to specify this on the invitation.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
I’ve been reminded that a friend was invited to a wedding last year with a vintage theme.
1940’s was specified and guests were expected to dress as they might have done then. She found it a nightmare to find the right sort of clothes. Vintage clothes were too small for her and she had to traipse high and low to find anything modern that was adaptable.
She even had to buy new make up that fitted the era.
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
It is worth pointing out that the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge specified "Uniform, Morning Coat, or Lounge Suit".
Yeah, I remember looking at that and thinking: I haven't got any of those - I'll not bother going.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
1940’s was specified and guests were expected to dress as they might have done then.
I would have come as Rosie the Riveter ....
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
Etiquette is in my experience a bit of a minefield and can induce sheer panic in me...I grew up in the UK from the age of 10 but a lot of my social understanding was influenced by my East Coast USA family.
So an instruction on an invitation may be irritating but it can also be comforting...or it can be neither, which brings me on to my current dilemma
We have been invited to a "black tie" do back in the UK when we return for our leave. Husband is sorted as his DJ still fits. But things appear to have changed in recent years on the etiquette front and I haven't got a clue what I should wear and that's really stressful.I also look awful in black.I'd prefer not to my choices prescribed but I hate doing the wrong thing so where's my instruction on the invitation so I don't cause offence?!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
That would be evening dress IMO. In the event that the little thing you wore to the Oscars is at the dry cleaners, a long skirt and top (in the silky/satiny/velvety range) would fit the bill.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Zacchaeus
Shipmate
# 14454
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Zacchaeus:
1940’s was specified and guests were expected to dress as they might have done then.
I would have come as Rosie the Riveter ....
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Posts: 1905 | From: the back of beyond | Registered: Jan 2009
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
That would be evening dress IMO. In the event that the little thing you wore to the Oscars is at the dry cleaners, a long skirt and top (in the silky/satiny/velvety range) would fit the bill.
A pedant writes...
that's the etiquette minefield right there though - evening dress does not mean black tie or female equivalent (I go to far too many hunt balls*, clearly)
evening dress = white tie and tails for gents, floor length dress with covered shoulders and gloves to the elbow (tiara if they have one) for the ladies
black tie = black tie (fairly obviously) for the gents and pretty much anything goes for the ladies, although a skirt to just below the knee is more usual, and shoulders are covered during any meal. Backless these days is ok for black tie, although *not* under any circumstances for evening dress.
For most "evening dress" functions, eg Northern Meeting, Oban ball, etc, the impracticality of tails and gloves is ok because it is assumed that you're not going to be dining - you're there after a dinner/house party (when you may well have worn black tie before changing) to dance (until dawn generally IME).
Dining functions (stand fast state banquets and hunts balls) are almost default black tie rather than evening dress. State functions because they can, and hunt balls because the countryside waas as ever a good 100 years behind the curve and people simply didn't have dinner jackets but would have the older white tie stuff. These days, it's just a hangover of do-different.
The balls of the Scottish season are white tie for the Englishmen, highland dress (trews verboten) for the gents, ladies as south of the border but with a sash in the tartan of their father's clan.
*some hunt balls are sketchier than others - one of my regulars is white tie, 5 course meal, and reeling, another is black tie and reeling, and a third is a black tie knees-up in a tent. All, in their own ways, are great.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
Sorry Firenze,
I forgot to say in all that, and missed the edit window, that the whole point of black tie is to make the men a uniform canvas to show off the ladies (in all seriousness)- consequently, it doesn't mean you have to wear black, you can wear whatever colour you like. Within the bounds I suggested above if it's a really strict do, and with much more leeway if it isn't, you have full permission by a black tie dress code to wear whatever colour/style you like.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
sorry Hosts, I am aware this is (potentially, unless this crossposts with someone) a triple post and won't do it again - for the sake of clarity I meant MrsBeaky not Firenze!
Obviously not going well today, I will retire to write out 100 times "I must always use the preview post function, never busk it because I think what I've written's ok"
Lesson learned.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
Bloody hell. I'm rather relieved that in my social circles I never get invited to these things anyway; I'd not have a clue.
And I hate wearing ties of any kind. Perhaps this is why dress codes rankle me - I'm already compromising a great deal in wearing trousers and a strangulation device. Requiring particular types of trousers, jackets as well (which always make me too hot unless it's January) and particular ties just seems to add insult to injury ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm already compromising a great deal in wearing trousers and a strangulation device.
So. Preferred mode of dress - kilt? Djellaba? Thin coating of woad?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291
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Posted
Mrs Beaky, I go to a few black-tie events (not so many evening dress ones, alas), and I would say think cocktail dress, although long frocks also often seen.
M.
Posts: 2303 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I'm already compromising a great deal in wearing trousers and a strangulation device.
So. Preferred mode of dress - kilt? Djellaba? Thin coating of woad?
Jeans.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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GCabot
Shipmate
# 18074
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And I hate wearing ties of any kind. Perhaps this is why dress codes rankle me - I'm already compromising a great deal in wearing trousers and a strangulation device.
My good fellow, if your tie is strangling you, you have tied it too tightly.
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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
It is worth pointing out that the wedding of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge specified "Uniform, Morning Coat, or Lounge Suit".
Yeah, I remember looking at that and thinking: I haven't got any of those - I'll not bother going.
That's not very enterprising - you could have worn your French Maid's uniform.
As a singer, dress codes can be a bit of a minefield. Fortunately, you are only likely to have to wear white tie kit if you are a principal soloist at a pretty spiffy concert. Next tier down is even more difficult to guess. It could be anything from black trousers and black open-necked shirt, to DJ but with a colour-coded bow tie (women's equivalent here was black dress with colour-coded scarf to match the men's ties). You just have to ask for details.
Karl - sorry I promised you a bit on the semiotics of this but haven't. I've got my daughter w/grandson visiting. I'll still try to shell something out if I can.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Are you sure that backless dresses /uncovered shoulders are out for white tie events, Betjemaniac (or are you only referring to highland balls, where the custom may be different)? Pretty sure I've seen plenty of pics of people who ought to know, in backless/ shoulderless full evening dresses. (Mind you, the one that I seem to be thinking of is of Margaret Duchess of Argyll, who was hardly a guide to good form in any matter.)
Oh, and I've heard that white tie with highland evening dress is OK if you are from Perthshire- is that right?
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Are you sure that backless dresses /uncovered shoulders are out for white tie events, Betjemaniac (or are you only referring to highland balls, where the custom may be different)? Pretty sure I've seen plenty of pics of people who ought to know, in backless/ shoulderless full evening dresses. (Mind you, the one that I seem to be thinking of is of Margaret Duchess of Argyll, who was hardly a guide to good form in any matter.)
Oh, and I've heard that white tie with highland evening dress is OK if you are from Perthshire- is that right?
Form's form. Re people who ought to know, its often better to assume they ought to know better (and your example, as you say, was er....).
Let's put it this way, one "ought" to have covered shoulders, and, if one needs to ask, that is what one will be told (or, in the sniffier places, handed a shawl). At that sort of thing, if you've got the self confidence to bend the rules,* then you'll get away with it but most don't have that. Equally, if you're pukka top 0.1%, you do what you want anyway.
*NB, bend not break - broken rules do not raise eyebrows so much as bring down tons of bricks (as manifested in your departure in a taxi at worst, and your party host not being allowed to bring a party in future - admittedly this is more for the invitation season balls (free to those that are asked, unavailable to those that aren't) than the charity ones you'd pay to attend)
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by GCabot:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
And I hate wearing ties of any kind. Perhaps this is why dress codes rankle me - I'm already compromising a great deal in wearing trousers and a strangulation device.
My good fellow, if your tie is strangling you, you have tied it too tightly.
's psychological. Feel like I'm being strangled as soon as the pointless strip of cloth goes round the neck.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Oh, I see. By strangulation device you mean a tie. Because you mentioned it in connection with trousers, I assumed you meant some kind of undergarment, probably constructed of straps and rings, which you wore for your own private delectation...
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Many threads on the Ship have altered my outlook on their topic. This isn't one of them. The heart of many dress codes is classism and exclusion. Yes, even I will concede to general guidelines,* but in the main it is rubbish.
Full disclosure: I am a great fan of Mr. Strauss' contribution to couture.
* I've seen garments at weddings and funerals more suited to a "gentlemen's" club.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Quentin Crisp said that the difference between manners and etiquette was that manners are inclusive and etiquette is exclusive. So if you provide a dress code to help people decide what to wear and generally feel comfortable by fitting in, but will welcome them if they turn up dressed otherwise, that is inclusive. Similarly, if as a guest you know that your host would really rather that you dressed in a certain way and you do so, against your own inclinations, because you value your host and wish to please them (like me with that hired morning coat), that is inclusive.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
I like that, Albertus. It is reasonable and thoughtful.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Quentin Crisp said that the difference between manners and etiquette was that manners are inclusive and etiquette is exclusive. So if you provide a dress code to help people decide what to wear and generally feel comfortable by fitting in, but will welcome them if they turn up dressed otherwise, that is inclusive. Similarly, if as a guest you know that your host would really rather that you dressed in a certain way and you do so, against your own inclinations, because you value your host and wish to please them (like me with that hired morning coat), that is inclusive.
But that also the includes the proviso "and can afford to do so", which means there's still exclusivity there.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Quentin Crisp said that the difference between manners and etiquette was that manners are inclusive and etiquette is exclusive. So if you provide a dress code to help people decide what to wear and generally feel comfortable by fitting in, but will welcome them if they turn up dressed otherwise, that is inclusive. Similarly, if as a guest you know that your host would really rather that you dressed in a certain way and you do so, against your own inclinations, because you value your host and wish to please them (like me with that hired morning coat), that is inclusive.
I agree wholeheartedly with all of that - I've just been following the etiquette tangent because I'm familiar with the answers. Not particularly to defend/extol it.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
What bothers me about Jade’s position (it’s all about making everything as easy and enjoyable as possible for guests) is that ISTM that the couple may be asked unfairly to sacrifice too many of their own expectations. To take a generalised expectation of just about all concerned for a French wedding: there will be a very nice - and extremely lengthy - dinner. This dinner is expensive, eye-poppingly so if you organise it in Paris. Were we getting married in Paris we would be looking at 100€ a head. Consequently we are getting married some considerable distance away in the South West, where the price is about half that. While we are going to do our best to minimise the cost for people (car sharing, staying with family, allowing people to put up their tent in the back garden if they don’t want to pay for the hotel), there is definitely going to be expense involved for the people who have to travel. The alternative is not to invite them and have a dinner in Paris with considerably less people. Jade says we could go to the pub, but that fits with no one’s expectations, including ours. It isn’t a zero-sum game. I also don’t think you should sacrifice all of your expectations on one of the most important days of your life. Some of them, certainly. The question is which ones.
But I think what you are describing is sacrificing the guests' expectation of not having to travel for the guests' expectation of a big dinner. Whereas Jade is describing sacrificing the guests' expectation of limited travel expenses for the sake of the couple's expectation of a beach wedding in the Bahamas, or somewhere similar.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
But that also the includes the proviso "and can afford to do so", which means there's still exclusivity there.
Depends on where you are willing to shop. I've a homeless friend who suits up for less than a tenner. Now this would not work for Annabelle's or Whites, but he meets most requirements this way.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
But that also the includes the proviso "and can afford to do so", which means there's still exclusivity there.
Depends on where you are willing to shop. I've a homeless friend who suits up for less than a tenner. Now this would not work for Annabelle's or Whites, but he meets most requirements this way.
White's no, Annabelle's, these days, he'd probably be one of the few people in there worth talking to, and no problem getting in with a member.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
Gentlemen's clubs of the non-euphemistic type.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
It's Independence Day here in the USA where most people wear T-Shirts and shorts to the celebratory functions, but I have too many scars on my left leg for shorts, so would probably wear jeans, but I know from experience that a number of people would feel moved to come up to me and say, "Aren't you hot in that?"
This thread has increased my agoraphobia by at least 50%. I shall remain home in morning clothes (bathrobe and slippers)indefinitely.
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Gentlemen's clubs of the non-euphemistic type.
Annabelle's is a night club. These days full of Russian and Arab oligarchs and hangers-on.
White's is a different kettle of fish, but only because it's still very much members only, and difficult to get into even as a guest. If, for some reason, your friend happened to cross paths with a member then they'd probably get in ok. It's more that there are so few members that the odds of path crossing are quite slim.
Acting on (slight) knowledge/experience of White's and (better) knowledge/experience of Annabelle's I'd be tempted to wager that the number of homeless people to have visited White's a guest is higher than the number that have visited Annabelle's as one, but then that's just a suspicion based on the prejudices of the newer-money set vs the old one. Hypothetically, your friend would have a much better night out in White's I reckon, and dress wouldn't matter so much (provided he had a suit on, provenance really wouldn't matter).
On a tangent off a tangent, one of the St James's clubs with strong links to the armed forces has as it's adopted charity Veterans Aid, and raises a pretty decent amount of money for work with homeless veterans.
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Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Quentin Crisp said that the difference between manners and etiquette was that manners are inclusive and etiquette is exclusive. So if you provide a dress code to help people decide what to wear and generally feel comfortable by fitting in, but will welcome them if they turn up dressed otherwise, that is inclusive. Similarly, if as a guest you know that your host would really rather that you dressed in a certain way and you do so, against your own inclinations, because you value your host and wish to please them (like me with that hired morning coat), that is inclusive.
But that also the includes the proviso "and can afford to do so", which means there's still exclusivity there.
Well, that's where part one of what I said comes in.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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ChastMastr
Shipmate
# 716
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Oh, I see. By strangulation device you mean a tie. Because you mentioned it in connection with trousers, I assumed you meant some kind of undergarment, probably constructed of straps and rings, which you wore for your own private delectation...
*PFOOMPF!*
ChastMastr suddenly appears in a cloud of smoke, as if unexpectedly summoned like a genie.
What the--?? I swear, I was minding my own business, and... look, it's like someone saying "Beetlejuice" three times, or looking in a mirror, saying "Candyman" or "Bloody Mary."
Carry on, then...
*foomp!*
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My essays on comics continuity: http://chastmastr.tumblr.com/tagged/continuity
Posts: 14068 | From: Clearwater, Florida | Registered: Jul 2001
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I have clearly been meddling with forces that i do not understand. ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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MrsBeaky
Shipmate
# 17663
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Posted
betjemaniac (and others), thank you for the guidance. To complicate matters further the black tie do is actually a wedding and someone else has told me that apparently at such an occasion other rules apply but no-one quite knows what they are....
Oh well I'll hang on to what Albertussaid about the difference between manners and etiquette.
Hey ho!
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"It is better to be kind than right."
http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com
Posts: 693 | From: UK/ Kenya | Registered: Apr 2013
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Deputy Verger
Shipmate
# 15876
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Posted
… bringing this gently back to the question posed by La Vie en Rouge…
I’m in a similar situation right now, going to a fancy wedding of a friend later this month, and although she didn’t specify a dress code on the invitation, she has told me informally that she knows a few friends and rellies are wearing black and she is in accord with LVeR that it feels a bit funereal and she hopes “not everyone” will trot out the LBD.
Almost all my clothes are black – casual, professional and formal. In the winter I get dressed by feeling the texture of things because I can’t see what’s what! Certainly when one is carrying a few extra pounds/kilos, black is one’s friend. And my problem is compounded by the Perfect Borrowed Hat, in black and cream.
I know the bride won’t really notice many of us beyond the wedding party, but I don’t want to depress her, so I am looking for something to ensure that I am not in, as someone put it, “unrelieved” black.
I tend to agree with the posters who have opined that “no black” is a bit officious and might put people off attending, but something like “Dress code: smart with splashes of colour” would be more encouraging.
I also have to go to a very formal event a month later. I might yet spring for something that will do double-duty. Ideally it would be black-and-some other colour (not pastel, because that doesn’t work for me, and not floral), maybe two-or-three-tone. (It still has to go with the Perfect Hat!)
In my world, and in 2014, wearing black as a wedding guest is nowhere near as wrong as wearing white. Black-and-white, however, as a colour combo, is very much in fashion (ie available) at the moment. I've seen a few weddings recently (as a bellringer) where the majority of female guests wore very nice black and white print dresses. The effect is not remotely funereal.
Sorry if I have just disabused anyone of the idea that I am a bloke.
Posts: 475 | From: London | Registered: Sep 2010
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Am I terribly arrogant in saying that I will wear WTF I like, and if anyone has a problem with that, then that is indeed their problem?
Just to clarify, I tend to wear black (suit/shirt/tie/overcoat/hat) to anything formal e.g. church/wedding/funeral, and jeans/casual shirt/pullover (if it's cold) to everything else.
Ian J.
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Mrs Shrew
Ship's Mother
# 8635
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Posted
When Mr Shrew and I got married, we had several dress code enquiries. We replied (genuinely meaning it) "whatever you want to wear, there will be children attending and a dance". This seemed to satisfy people who wanted guidance (as long as it wasn't offensive*, we didn't mind).
If I had had a preference, I would have felt it perfectly reasonable to make a request such as in the OP. In planning the day, we put a huge amount of time into making sure everyone would have fun and enjoy it and any requirements were catered for that it seems only fair to be able to make dress code requests.
Otoh I don't know that people listening to them is guaranteed. One of my university friends is a Sikh. For her wedding, at the Gudwara, covering to elbows, knees and not low necklines, plus a scarf available for covering head for ceremony were included in the invitation to all non - Sikh friends, and a supply of spare scarves for heads was available when we arrived.
She took it in good humour when one of our other friends arrived in shorts and t shirt with no head covering, and his girlfriend in hotpants that would have made you blush even on a beach and the tiniest vest you ever saw had no head covering either. I found it astonishingly offensive that he did so, as she had clearly explained the importance of the dress code.
*we are pretty hard to offend-clothes more than underwear and with no outright rude slogans is sufficient
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"The goal of life is not to make other people in your own image, it is to understand that they, too, are in God's image" (Orfeo)
Was "mummyfrances".
Posts: 703 | From: York, England | Registered: Oct 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Am I terribly arrogant in saying that I will wear WTF I like, and if anyone has a problem with that, then that is indeed their problem?.
Maybe not terribly but perhaps a teensy-weensy bit? I speak as someone who is both resistant to conformity and exiled from it insofar as few providers of readymade clothing have fat old women as their target demographic.
Nevertheless, if avoiding a particular colour would gratify a friend, then perhaps one might compromise ones fearless individuality just a little?
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Twilight
Puddleglum's sister
# 2832
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Posted
I watched an episode of "Doc Martin," the other night where he and Louisa attended an outdoor summer concert followed by an indoor, very posh reception. Louisa wore a black and white dress and all but a few of the women seemed to be wearing black in some part, if not entirely.
It's that sort of thing that makes me think the "black is so funereal," is really just in the heads of a few people these days. It's been over a hundred years since people dressed in black for a long mourning period. Yes, we do still wear black at funerals but we also wear it to picnics and baby christenings and birthday parties.
I know a woman who shudders when anyone wears purple because it's "the color of death." I've heard people say that women over thirty wearing pink are, "mutton dressed as lamb," yellow makes everyone sallow, beige is dull and boring, blue is so depressing it's slang for sad. Red is for harlots and white is for brides only. Could we wear green maybe?
Posts: 6817 | Registered: May 2002
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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106
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Posted
Not to a wedding, Twilight - green's unlucky at weddings.
Posts: 291 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
Why? It's the color of fertility.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Cod
Shipmate
# 2643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Am I terribly arrogant in saying that I will wear WTF I like, and if anyone has a problem with that, then that is indeed their problem?
Yes. And, ref Orfeo's previous post, it suggests you are a misanthrope, which is your problem.
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"I fart in your general direction."
M Barnier
Posts: 4229 | From: New Zealand | Registered: Apr 2002
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North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kittyville:
Not to a wedding, Twilight - green's unlucky at weddings.
Only for the bride, surely - "Marry in green, shame to be seen."
Green is fine for guests.
I agree with LVER - black is for funerals. However, I think that a scattering of black dresses amongst a larger group of colourful dresses won't look funereal.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
quote:
Originally posted by Kittyville:
Not to a wedding, Twilight - green's unlucky at weddings.
Only for the bride, surely - "Marry in green, shame to be seen."
Was this not, at its root, an anti-Irish sentiment? Like the "Red and Green should not be seen ..." one?
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
I speak as someone who is both resistant to conformity and exiled from it insofar as few providers of readymade clothing have fat old women as their target demographic.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Nevertheless, if avoiding a particular colour would gratify a friend, then perhaps one might compromise ones fearless individuality just a little?
Isn't that kind of compromise what getting on with friends and family is all about? No just as regards dress sense either.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Fineline
Shipmate
# 12143
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Posted
I would think it a bit odd, having never had a wedding invitation that specified 'no black', but it wouldn't bother me. People often have parties where they want people to dress in a certain way - fancy dress, for instance, or formal. As I don't have much idea about social norms regarding clothes, I find a bit of guidance quite handy - although I also don't have a lot of clothes, and my clothes are simple and inexpensive, and I wouldn't go out and buy something just for one occasion. But not wearing black wouldn't fall into that category - I have clothes that are not black.
I don't think wearing black to weddings is rude per se, but if you know a person interprets it as rude, then it is showing consideration to not wear it to their wedding day. Just like you may not be being rude when you use the word 'fuck', but if you know your grandma finds it really offensive, you might avoid saying it in front of her. Or you may not be intending shouting when you use ALL CAPS, but if you know that certain people online interpret it that way, you might choose not to use them (even if you find them easier to read and would prefer to use them).
Much of life is about illogical etiquette rules that are simply accepted codes that society agrees upon. And often certain people have one code and others have another. Being courteous is about understanding this and being able to adapt. I'd far rather someone specified their preference for 'no black' than neglected to specify it and then got all offended that people were rude enough to wear black.
Posts: 2375 | From: England | Registered: Dec 2006
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Kittyville
Shipmate
# 16106
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Posted
Funny that you should suggest it is anti-Irish, Boogie - I nearly replied to Miss Amanda to say that it seems to be an Irish thing! I grew up with it, but it didn't seem to be well known outside first or second generation Irish circles. No one without Irish relations in Australia seemed to know it when I moved here, for example. I was beginning to doubt myself until an Irish acquaintance here mentioned it.
I should add - unlucky for guests as well as the bride.
[ 06. July 2014, 09:15: Message edited by: Kittyville ]
Posts: 291 | From: Sydney | Registered: Dec 2010
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Ariel
Shipmate
# 58
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Posted
Green is the colour associated with the fairy folk, but I wasn't aware of any problem with any Irish person wearing Ireland's national colour. Come St Patrick's Day you can usually spot the expatriates or those of Irish descent, even if they're not wearing large clumps of shamrock, silly hats or a badge with a picture of a drunken leprechaun holding a pint and grinning. They'll be the ones wearing something green, and my understanding is that it's regarded as a lucky colour. Certainly I always treat it as such.
Posts: 25445 | Registered: May 2001
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