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Source: (consider it) Thread: Orthodox and 'Original' Sin
The Scrumpmeister
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# 5638

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quote:
Originally posted by Stranger in a strange land:
quote:
Whether or not this may be generally disregarded on the quiet by individual priests doesn't change the fact that that's the rule.
According to the CofE's
website

'Those who have been confirmed in a church whose ministerial orders are recognised and accepted by the Church of England and in which confirmation is performed by a bishop, or by a priest acting on the bishop's behalf and using chrism blessed by the bishop, do not need to be confirmed. They are simply received into the Church of England instead.'

I'm sure I've seen a more authoritative statement somwhere defining the the meaning of 'episcopally' in the Canon, but I don't recall where for the moment.

If that interpretation is stated on the website I suppose it must represent an authoritative reading of the canon. It seems an imaginative reading of the word episcopally. Nonetheless, I sit corrected. Thank you, Stranger in A Strange Land.

[ 10. July 2014, 22:26: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]

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Vaticanchic
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I made the mistake recently of joining & attempting to engage with FB groups entitled roughly "Discussions about Orthodoxy" - anything of the sort - came away with a bloody nose & threats of hell if I didn't benefit from the blessings of a bullet first...!

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"Sink, Burn or Take Her a Prize"

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Vaticanchic:
I made the mistake recently of joining & attempting to engage with FB groups entitled roughly "Discussions about Orthodoxy" - anything of the sort - came away with a bloody nose & threats of hell if I didn't benefit from the blessings of a bullet first...!

What does FB stand for in this context please?

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Gwai
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facebook

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A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
It seems an imaginative reading of the word episcopally.

The theology, in those parts of the CofE that care about such things, is that priests act on behalf of the bishop, using powers delegated to them.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by The Scrumpmeister:
It seems an imaginative reading of the word episcopally.

The theology, in those parts of the CofE that care about such things, is that priests act on behalf of the bishop, using powers delegated to them.
So something is "episcopal" if the priest does it on behalf or instead of the bishop, such as confirmation, but is not episcopal if the priest does it... what? On his own authority? Like celebrate mass/communion/eucharist? Is there ANYTHING that a priest does that is not by licensure by the bishop?

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Ad Orientem
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A priest does nothing apart from the bishop. Which is why, for instance, a priest dismissed by his bishop simply ceases to be a priest. Not any of that rubbish about being "valid but illicit".
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Forthview
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You are quite right to say that a priest functions qua priest in the name of and by delegation from the bishop who is the chief pastor of the diocese.Of course,as a Christian,he functions as an ordinary individual just like any other Christian.

It's not however rubbish to say that a priest remains'sacerdos in aeternum' ( a priest for ever)
even if he abandons the Church. His celebrations of the sacraments are illicit,but valid, if celebrates without the agreement of the bishop of
the diocese.

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mousethief

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In the Orthodox Church, a bishop gives a priest an antimension, a cloth that denotes his permission to say the Liturgy. Without it, there is no liturgy, even if all the words and actions are the exact same. The Antimension belongs to the bishop, and he can demand it back at any time, at which point that priest will not be able to say the Liturgy. A priest cannot use another priest's antimension.

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Jude
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How would a priest be prevented from using another's antimension? Of course, a genuine priest wouldn't think of doing so, but how could a false priest be prevented?

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"...But I always want to know the things one shouldn’t do.”
“So as to do them?” asked her aunt.
“So as to choose,” said Isabel.
Henry James - The Portrait of A Lady

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
facebook

Thank you. And there was I wondering what ecclesiastical in-crowd the initials might stand for 'Full Believers', 'Favoured Brethren', 'Fearful Bogomils' or what?

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Jude:
How would a priest be prevented from using another's antimension? Of course, a genuine priest wouldn't think of doing so, but how could a false priest be prevented?

Of course you can't prevent that. Nor could you prevent a priest (or "priest") not using one at all but going through the same words and motions -- given the way an Orthodox church is set up, ad orientam (facing east), the antimension is generally not visible to the congo.

But it wouldn't be a valid Eucharist. According to the Orthodox Church, the bread would still be nothing but bread, and the wine would still be nothing but wine. They would not be the Body and Blood of Jesus, which is the point of the Eucharist (in the EOC). It would not be a Eucharist at all, but rather something somewhere between a fraud and a black mass.

[ 12. July 2014, 22:55: Message edited by: mousethief ]

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