|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Thesis Support version 5.0
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
I was just incredulous; one minute I was genuinely and legitimately googling for a bit of family background on the Misses Murray, spinster schoolmistresses, then I spent an hour googling through bizarre and appalling websites thinking WTF? WTAF? and now I'm annoyed with myself for being so easily side-tracked.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
|
Posted
I agree on the Andrew Murray site. A friend of mine is the great-great-great grand-daughter of Murray and a feministy architect and academic. In context of Dutch Reformed Church history, Andrew Murray had a great influence on its development all around South Africa in the 19th century. Much of what the writer Olive Schreiner encountered in the Karoo and Eastern Cape was as much Murray as Dutch Protestant thinking.
But I'm sure you know most of this, just commenting on a wet and rainy afternoon here in the Western Cape...
--------------------
I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
I didn't know anything at all about Rev. Andrew Murray; I hadn't even heard of him till a few days ago. There was an intermarried family in C19th Aberdeen; Chalmers (newspaper proprietors), Brown (Free Church, very involved in the Disruption) and Dyce (Academics, but also the painter William Dyce.) The Browns married into the Stewarts (industry / local government) and the Murrays (church). Andrew Murray was the nephew of Rev John Murray, and lived with him in Aberdeen while being educated, so he was on the fringe of this.
Being a feministy historian, I'm interested in the women in this family, some of whom were very interesting indeed. William Dyce used some of Prime Minister Gladstone's rescued prostitutes as models, which led to his niece, Meredith Brown, devoting her life to preventing girls being trapped into prostitution.
However, the route into googling Andrew Murray was his three first cousins, Catherine, Margaret and Isabella Murray, who ran a girls' school.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
Sorry, hit post by accident. Did Andrew Murray have interesting female descendents, Mary LA? They seem to have been a family which valued female education.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
|
Posted
I'd have to ask my friend more about this -- the well-known Andrew Murray was the son of a Scot who became a Dutch Reformed minister and the family home is in the Great Karoo, at Graaff-Reinet.
The influence of Andrew Murray was to introduce a deep pietism into the the Dutch Reformed Church (Nederduitse Reformeerde Kerk), bringing about a large revival throughout South Africa (sometimes still called the Great Awakening) and in the 19th century many Scottish women came out as Sunday School teachers and governesses. But more than that I don't know.
--------------------
I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
Thanks, Mary LA!
My PhD is on female school teachers in C19th Scotland; they were often members of interesting families, because families which valued education for their daughters were families which espoused values generally; whether religious, political or social.
If you scratch a bit, women who were the "first woman to..." in the C20th often had female forebears who had made the most of their education - women's emancipation and rights have, since the 1840s, (IMO) been more of a continuum, with set-backs, and less of a stop / start model of suffrage / second wave etc.
Rev. Andrew Murray's first cousin, Margaret, born in 1832, taught modern languages in Aberdeen from 1862, having "resided on the continent for seven years." This is the sort of thing that really intrigues me - why did she go abroad? where? with whom? was she earning a living there? what was her life like??
This is my main PhD problem - I get all fascinated by snippets and wander further and further away from my central PhD topic.
Does this happen to other PhD students - or am I just woefully lacking in intellectual self-discipline?
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Mary LA
Shipmate
# 17040
|
Posted
Tangents and digressions are the pleasures and temptations of any research!
The 'Continent' was regarded as a place for acquiring culture and polish -- she might have boarded with a respectable French or German family or studied music (piano lessons). I was reading about Henry James' family who went back and forth around Europe looking at art galleries and museums, sending their sons to schools and academies to learn the sciences and literature.
The climate was warmer in Europe so youngsters suspected of being prone to consumption were sent to Italy and the south of France, to European spas and lodges in the Swiss Alps.
She might also have had a position as governess with a respectable wealthy family. Daughters who found themselves in unsuitable attachments were also sent to the Continent to boarding schools and academies for young ladies. (Remember Katherine Mansfield was sent to a German pension when she fell pregnant and had a convenient early miscarriage or abortion.)
--------------------
I often wonder if we were all characters in one of God's dreams.
― Muriel Spark
Posts: 499 | From: Africa | Registered: Apr 2012
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
Tomorrow I am having a day off from the day job and spending time with people from my old PhD department - they are co-hosting a couple of sessions of a Doctoral Training School and they asked me to participate in their roundtable session (they have primed a number of us to talk around a particular subject, to spark discussion). Despite having got my PhD over a year ago, and having a proper job where I get to call myself 'Dr', I am still nervous that the students will sound more intelligent than me, and that I will be found out. Anyone who says 'imposter syndrome' isn't real really has no idea! (and if any of the Scotland-based PhDers are at the event in Edinburgh, do come and say hello!)
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
Here I am again.
![[Tear]](graemlins/tear.gif)
I haven't given up, but I'm this [] close!
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
|
Posted
How much do you have written?
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Caissa:
How much do you have written?
The degree (MA in SpLD, dyslexia) is in three parts. Two parts practical - both passed. The third is a Thesis/dissertation. 20,000 words.
I have read a lot, made many notes and completed the research (which went really well)
It's the Lit review that's completely stumping me. I keep starting, scrapping and starting again.
:very frustrated:
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Boogie
There are endless blogs out there that give you the how to as well as I can.
There is however one blog (and ![[brick wall]](graemlins/brick_wall.gif) its the one I can't find) that tells you what you are doing in a literature review.
Its thesis, was that the point of the literature review in a thesis was to say Why you did this study. So it is not to specify all the literature on the topic and what was said, nor is it to quote people who support you. It is to do three things:
- Give an general view on where thinking is on the broader topic
- Give the reason why your particular aspect of the topic is of interest
- Give some idea why you took your particular approach to dealing with the topic
In other words you are making an academic case for why you did your research.
That was so useful because I am not writing a literature review chapter for my thesis. There are literature reviews in there but there is not a chapter. There are reasons for that, my reason for doing my thesis is there was very little out there. I think it I had known how little I would have panicked more than I did. Therefore when I use literature I am borrowing from other areas of research. However this told me what I needed to put in my opening chapter if I did not have a literature review.
Jengie
[ 17. August 2012, 13:33: Message edited by: Jengie Jon ]
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Caissa
Shipmate
# 16710
|
Posted
Do you need to write the literature review first Boogie? Sometimes just writing anything will help you to write into the thesis. I remember the literature review in my thesis not being the most enjoyable or edifying part of my thesis but it did help to place my thesis in context.
Posts: 972 | From: Saint John, N.B. | Registered: Oct 2011
| IP: Logged
|
|
Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
|
Posted
Thanks Jengie Jon - I will search the Blogosphere!
Good idea Caissa. I may just start the data analysis just to cheer myself up!
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I have dyslexia myself - so any writing is a struggle. I'd love to be able to do this verbally! (And yes, I have a dragon, but he's no help really)
I won't give up - Iwon'tIwon'tIwon'tIwon'tIwon'tIwon'tIwon'tIwon'tIwon't!!
--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Of course you write the data chapters before the literature review or in parallel otherwise you don't know what you are writing the literature review for.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Actually to point out two bits of software that might help, one is Scrivener which is often recommended {see a recent blog) although there are still problems with linking that to referencing software as far as I know (for those who use latex there are techniques but I am afraid I can't be bothered to make the effort) and the other is Ultra Recall. Both of these allow you to write in sections and move things easily between different documents.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
(bump)
Well, the PhD has ground to a halt, because I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by the enormity of the whole writing-up thing, and I really need a kick up the backside. My supervisors would be only too happy to administer said kick, but I'm avoiding them. ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Instead, I've got three papers to deliver to three conferences lined up (ignoring supervisor advice to forget papers and WRITE UP THE PhD!) Writing the papers feels like PhD-y stuff and it'll look good on my CV, right? Ok, not as good as an actual completed PhD, but hey.
And I've won an award! Not a big one, but one I'm very pleased about. However, I don't want my supervisors to find out about it, because I worked on it when I was supposed to be writing up the PhD, and in direct contravention of their instruction to FOCUS ON THE PhD. (It's a short book, which I started 5 years ago, and I was encouraged by a friend to finish it and submit it for the award.)
So sometime next year I'll get a silver salver for a year, plus 6 free copies of my wee book, and the right to buy more copies at an author rate. However, I'll have to spend a bit more time before it goes to print making some revisions, which will of course be more time spent not writing up. ![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
How's everyone else doing??
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
North East Quine
Have you tried setting yourself an hour every day purely for thesis? A little often make a big difference. Set yourself a weekly word limit to achieve (mine is just 2000 and I rarely don't make it, crossing 3000 is more common).
News here is as mixed as ever, there are two ways of looking at how far I am through my thesis and they tell different stories.
1)Word count says I have less that 5,000 to finish
2)Chapter says I am 2/3 through
My own assessment is that I will have everything in draft by Christmas and between Christmas and Easter I should get a final version. That will be a challenge but I think I need the pressure now to finish and to cut the waffle.
More practically I am sending the descriptive chapters in draft to my congregations this weekend. One still needs tidying up. I am also trying to register for next year. The situation is now closer to resolved in that someone is looking at it, but I am not sure how much progress they are making.
This week I am not writing but I have done 10,000 in the last three weeks and over the weekend have a major edit with the chapters going out and also a supervision to prepare for. Progress updates as usual on my thesis blog.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
the point of the literature review in a thesis was to say Why you did this study. So it is not to specify all the literature on the topic and what was said, nor is it to quote people who support you. It is to do three things:
- Give an general view on where thinking is on the broader topic
- Give the reason why your particular aspect of the topic is of interest
- Give some idea why you took your particular approach to dealing with the topic
In other words you are making an academic case for why you did your research.
As a thesis examiner these days, these are things I look for in every thesis, and indeed in every research paper that I referee. For some topics , this comes in a chapter (or section) headed "literature review" - indeed some universities seem to insist that there is such a chapter. But sometimes this context just comes in a short introduction, with much of the literature just referred to as it comes up in the body of the text, as Jengie is doing. (This is common when the main point of the reference is to compare your results to those of a similar study done elsewhere, for example,or when the "literature" is the main subject of your thesis (as in History).
So I agree with Jengie, if you are daunted by a whole library full of stuff that just might be relevant, you may be better off, you may be better off doing some of your own analysis first or in parallel, so that you can be selective about what it is you have to "read". That way you go forward relatively painlessly and with fewer distractions. In short "just do it".
[ 29. August 2012, 23:56: Message edited by: Tukai ]
--------------------
A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Cottontail
Shipmate
# 12234
|
Posted
Congratulations, NEQ, on your prize and publication. That is a great achievement, and a real stand-out for a CV if you are planning on making a career in academia. Any chance of you putting a link to your book on your sig line?
Other than that, I see thatyou have found yourself caught in the PhD/CV bind. A supervisor will ALWAYS tell you to focus on the PhD first, even to the exclusion of all else. They are accountable to the University and their first responsibility is to get you through the whole process.
However, if you are aiming for an academic career, you simply cannot leave the papers and publications until the PhD is done. Awards for postdocs are assessed largely on a points system, and a lack of publications at that stage can mean that you crash out of the race even if everything else in your application is exemplary. Likewise, academic institutions these days are obliged to maintain a high publishing output in order to justify their funding. To have any chance of one of them employing you, you need to be able to demonstrate that you can contribute to that output. Postdoc funding and academic employment are both incredibly competitive, and the funding or job will always go to the one with the proven publishing track record.
So no easy answer, I'm afraid, but just a reassurance that you have not wasted your time! It is a juggling act all the way. Good luck, and congratulations again.
--------------------
"I don't think you ought to read so much theology," said Lord Peter. "It has a brutalizing influence."
Posts: 2377 | From: Scotland | Registered: Jan 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
Yes NEQ, congratulations on the book award. Go you!
However, Jengie is also very wise (as usual) and I think the suggestion of some small amount of dedicated time regularly (rather than an entire month of thinking of nothing else which is an entirely too scary prospect) is a good one. Also write every day, just a little bit! At first it might be rubbish, but there will always be nuggets you can copy and paste later
I do know what it's like to feel almost paralysed with fear and putting off the writing/PhD stuff and letting myself be distracted by anything else. It's horrible, but at the end of the day the only thing that snaps you out of it is snapping out of it (if that makes sense and doesn't sound unsympathetic). Maybe if you start off with writing a list of things to do (not a long scary one, just a few manageable things to be getting on with) that might help?
What I'm finding now I'm a postdoc (research-only) is that being paid properly and also having Dr before my name so I'm supposed to know what I'm doing (ha!) means that I'm slightly scared to go off on too many tangents! It kind of feels like doing the PhD, but without all the faffing about. The imposter syndrome feeling never goes away though, but I feel under more pressure to not faff. Looking back at my PhD I wish my supervisors had been a bit stricter with me in the faffing about department.
In other news, I submitted a paper for a journal today. I'm not very experienced at doing this yet - of course I had gone way over the word limit as usual so spent most of this week chopping it all out, and now I've submitted it I have absolutely no idea if it's any good or not. Not feeling very confident now, but at least I don't have to give it a single thought over the weekend!
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
Just remembered as well that when I wrote to do lists I found ordering myself about really helped. So not:
1. Write intro to paper.
2. Read journal articles on x.
3.
4.
etc which just got scary and made me want to clean the oven instead,
but
1. Write intro to paper. DO THIS FIRST.
2. Read 2 journal articles on x. DON'T DO ANYTHING ELSE TILL YOU'VE READ THEM.
3.
4.
etc
I know it sounds silly, but it did help.
[ 31. August 2012, 17:58: Message edited by: Jack the Lass ]
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Just to say I have had another supervision and have posted a report at on my thesis blog.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Exploration of Styles has the following blog on reverse outlines. It is persuading me more and more that my supervisors approach which I have used, that is put the literature into the chapter has its advantages, it means I construct an argument when I am dealing with the literature.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
Bumping this up to see how you're all doing ... Hope this month of silence on the thread means lots of writing going on in those theses
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
|
Posted
Now Kuruman is doing her PhD I should return to the thread, or start a "living with a thesis" thread. Having had nothing but 'this is fantastic' from her supervisor, to the extent that she was feeling guilty because it was all so painless, and even having a 'you're on the home straight now' feedback, she out of the blue had the whole thing and all its presuppositions mauled out of the water about two months ago.
And there was or is little I could say.
--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Poor Kuruman, my advice (for what it is worth) would be to walk away for a week; then come back and look and see what is salvageable (almost certainly more than she thinks at present). In the end theses are normally stronger for these struggles. In the meantime she might find this post useful I know it deals with papers but some of that it true as well when your thesis gets a mauling.
Well I have had a heavy writing weekend partly due to having a supervision and partly because that was what made sense with having a two week holiday. I have now crossed 80,000 word line so my thesis at present is TOO LONG and needs cutting.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
This months supervision is over and I have just the final major chapter to draft before my next one in December. My supervisor actually quite liked the structure of this chapter and the integration of theory and incidences. I am going to have to link back to earlier chapters.
Sometime fairly soon I am going to have to think of what comes next. What are the important thinks I want to take further from this thesis. This is not easy, I am very much your old style Academic following their own research agenda and not really worrying about funding, REFs or whatever. I have a day job that fits well with doing part time research (well that is not quite true, in the day job I help other people's research rather than follow my own head). The natural path is the amateur(?Gentleman?)Scholar but is there space for that in todays fiercely competive world of Academia?
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
I have now crossed 80,000 word line so my thesis at present is TOO LONG and needs cutting.
Jengie
Jengie: At least that means that you have got something to say about the subject. That's one positive!
Another positive is that (in my experience of writing academic and other papers) it is much easier to cut text down rather than to build it up. For one thing, you only have to deal with the text that's in front of you, rather than hunt up new material. And that can be done anywhere - which is handy if you have to move towns because your funding has run out or your spouse has a new job or whatever. ( This last point may not apply to you personally, but I bet there are others on this thread for whom it does.)
--------------------
A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
Posting to make sure this thread avoids being oblivionated by the hosts (at least just yet ). Hope it's all going well for everyone.
I had a good day today. My boss sent me a link to a 3 year postdoc application form, we are too late for this year, but she wanted me to think about it in order to take the time to apply for next year. She was really pleased that I was interested in applying and said that she was desperate to keep me (and my colleague, to whom she also sent the link) - so I was very happy for the affirmation . We are a good team, but the nature of research jobs is that they are grant-reliant and so fixed term; at the moment we both have a while to go on our current contracts, but they both expire around the same time (his just before mine) so we are both going to have to think about the next one before too long.
In other news, tomorrow I do my final baseline interview for my current project, so I'm really pleased with that. I interview the same people again 6 months after the first interview, so will be starting again in the new year, but it is nice to have reached this milestone!
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Catrine
Shipmate
# 9811
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Sometime fairly soon I am going to have to think of what comes next. I am very much your old style Academic following their own research agenda and not really worrying about funding, REFs or whatever. I have a day job that fits well with doing part time research (well that is not quite true, in the day job I help other people's research rather than follow my own head). The natural path is the amateur(?Gentleman?)Scholar but is there space for that in todays fiercely competive world of Academia?
With your skills, the world is your oyster. I haven't forgotten your assistance with analyses some time ago now, and these are always skills with a premium. Just make sure that you get paid your worth (particularly with your imminent qualifications!). You have the skills to help others to meet their goals, as well as new research skills in the bag to develop your own threads of work. As for the autonomy vs following the beast (REF), it depends where you are. I've found Russell Group institutions a bit more controlling (but this may not apply to all). I now work for a post-92 and they are happy for me to work on my own things, as long as I have ticked the 4 paper ref box (and help others tick theirs!).
Posts: 2614 | From: Midlands | Registered: Jul 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Thanks Catrine
I have just managed to complete the first draft of my final substantive chapter. I am getting quite a feeling of euphoria as if I have just had a ride on a big dipper.
I need to send it to my supervisor and then I have to decide what I want to tackle next. Plenty of tasks to do in getting this from first to final draft. However I think I am stopping for the night.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
Well done Jengie! Onward and upward!
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
Noooo! I can't read my own handwriting from my last archive trip. What can something which appears to say "16 salaries - one a cheese" possibly mean??
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Noooo! I can't read my own handwriting from my last archive trip. What can something which appears to say "16 salaries - one a cheese" possibly mean??
Find a nurse or a doctors receptionist in real life and ask them. Seriously deciphering handwriting is an art and those practised in it might have better skills even than someone reading their own handwriting.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Had my first supervision of the year and I am aiming at finishing my thesis by end of June, this will be hard work but other demands suggest I should do. My take on how today went is now on my thesis blog.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
Exciting, Jengie!
I'm hoping to have what my supervisor is describing as a "first draft" finished by the end of May. Personally, I'd describe it as more of a "second draft" but I'm not going to quibble.
Today I'm trying to write up a piece of research which came to a "Well d'uh!" conclusion in a way which makes it sound interesting, learned, thoughtful and insightful, as opposed to a revelation of the bleedin' obvious.
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Amorya
Ship's tame galoot
# 2652
|
Posted
I'm still plodding along, many years after I was supposed to finish. I saw my supervisor for the first time in a year this week he was quite surprised to see me!
Officially my status with the university is permanently withdrawn for medical reasons. So when (if?) I get a thesis together, I'm going to have to beg them for mercy to allow me to submit it. It's all disheartening.
Still, I'm quite happy with three out of the six chapters now. They're not perfect, but they're most of the way there. The others will take a bit more work.
Amorya
Posts: 2383 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
Dinghy Sailor
Ship's Jibsheet
# 8507
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Had my first supervision of the year and I am aiming at finishing my thesis by end of June
So am I.
Race you!
(and yes, that's what I'm doing on the computer at 11:15 ) ![[Snore]](graemlins/snore.gif)
--------------------
Preach Christ, because this old humanity has used up all hopes and expectations, but in Christ hope lives and remains.
Dietrich Bonhoeffer
Posts: 2821 | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
I had an amazing dream last night, in which I was scribbling down, at great speed, thousands of words of flowing, erudite, insightful comment. Woke up, bounced out of bed, straight to the computer, switched it on, and found myself staring at a blank screen. Not a single word of last night's happy dream could I recall. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
Friday's supervision went well. However, my supervisor made a passing comment that I should write the book of the PhD ASAP after finishing the actual PhD as he thinks that increasing electronic publishing will reduce my chances of having a hard copy book published if I leave it too long.
I hadn't been thinking that far ahead at all. ![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
Poor Kuruman, my advice (for what it is worth) would be to walk away for a week; then come back and look and see what is salvageable (almost certainly more than she thinks at present). In the end theses are normally stronger for these struggles. In the meantime she might find this post useful I know it deals with papers but some of that it true as well when your thesis gets a mauling.
She did, and is back on track, albeit a little more circumspect. She had a good meeting with both her supervisors in January, and it turns out that one's methodology is simply to think aloud on paper, so that scribbles in the margin are not corrections but ponderings ....
--------------------
shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jack the Lass
Ship's airhead
# 3415
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Friday's supervision went well. However, my supervisor made a passing comment that I should write the book of the PhD ASAP after finishing the actual PhD as he thinks that increasing electronic publishing will reduce my chances of having a hard copy book published if I leave it too long.
I hadn't been thinking that far ahead at all.
I'm not sure what your plans are post-PhD but if you're wanting to go into academia I think having a plan for a book is really sensible, and if you can get a book contract even better. Publication really does seem to be the be all and end all at the moment, which is why I'm going to have to get my finger out to try and publish lots (I've decided against a book and am aiming for several journal articles instead; I think my thesis is too 'bitty' for a book) if I'm going to stand any chance of employers looking at me beyond my current job (I am more and more realising that I really got lucky with this one; I'm not going to be this lucky again with my currently very very short list of publications).
Good luck with it all! Looking forward to seeing you (and Zappa) in print
--------------------
"My body is a temple - it's big and doesn't move." (Jo Brand)
wiblog blipfoto blog
Posts: 5767 | From: the land of the deep-fried Mars Bar | Registered: Oct 2002
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
I'd been planning to try to get a few journal articles published, but hadn't been thinking about the book of the PhD at all yet. I've got a couple of papers which I've given at conferences, plus a section which has been cut out of my PhD for word-count reasons, which I'd intended to work up to being journal articles. That seems achievable; a book seems like a much bigger project.
(There's also Plan B of course - write a best-selling novel based on the PhD, win the Booker, sell the film rights, etc etc etc) (She was a schoolmistress in Victorian Aberdeen; she was another schoolmistress in Victorian Aberdeen; their eyes met across a crowded classroom; their passion spanned the windswept dunes of Aberdeen beach and rain-drenched George Street....)
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
|
Posted
Wet Victorian lesbians in Banchory. Best-sellerdom in a box I tell ya.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
|
Posted
NEQ:
Your posts suggest to me that your Plan A ( a few journal articles) sounds your best bet for getting some academic points on the board. You have already done a couple of conference papers you say: it should not be too hard to flesh them out into journal articles.
It's a rare thesis that converts easily into a book (even an e-book) ; most are too bitty or have too many gaps for the coherence a publishable book requires. And if the conversion is a lot of work, it's probably not worth doing if you need "brownie points" in the short term.
A quick skim of William Germano's short book "From Dissertation to book" (Uni Chicago Press,2005) may clarify the issues for you. See especially his chapter 2.
--------------------
A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
I suugest that you see what is now the norm in your specialism. If I am to publish in my specialism (and not in a related area) I will need to publish a book. There are no journals!
What I am not sure of is what sort of book the publishers will be interested in publishing. I suspect there are three separate ones, rather than one: ones is an anthropological text (academic, very limited audience); ones a book on spirituality (intelligent general Christian) and the third comes under church organisational studies (practical mission orientated). The first is the one that I want to publish as an academic, the second is the one everyone else seems to want to read but also the one that will take most work and I suspect the third is the reason I started out doing this doctorate.
I have about half a dozen papers to go back to and see if I can get in print. Fortunately they are nearly all extra to my thesis.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
North East Quine
Curious beastie
# 13049
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Firenze:
Wet Victorian lesbians in Banchory. Best-sellerdom in a box I tell ya.
Fame and fortune, here I come!
Thanks for the advice, Tukai. I was too surprised to ask any sensible questions in my supervision! I'll look at that book, and I'll try to discuss it more in my next supervision.
Jengie, my PhD falls somewhere between educational history and gender history, so I would think a book would stand most chance if it was written to pitch at both markets - maybe.
Meanwhile, Plan A ought to be - Finish the PhD!
Posts: 6414 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Plan A is very much FINISH THESIS.
Another supervision done and worship chapter needs minor revisions, supervisor wants me to get poetic about the Reformed tradition ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif) ![[Eek!]](eek.gif) .
Mind you he did agree that trying to get it down was like trying to grab a bowl full of mist. More detail in Today's update on thesis blog.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
If I am to publish in my specialism (and not in a related area) I will need to publish a book. There are no journals!
Yours must be the most specialised field in all academia if there are so few people in it that it that they cannot support even one journal!
I fear that no academic publisher would be interested in a book aimed at such a tiny audience.
But I suspect from what you say here (and even a glance at your blog) that your work can actually be embedded in a much wider field (e.g. sociology) and/or sits at the boundary of several wider fields (e.g. religious history as well as sociology), all of which have journals (and in which books are published ). To look at the title of most individual journal articles would suggest that at most half a dozen people in the world could fully appreciate the entirety of the work, but in fact hundreds more will connect with at least part of it, not least its broad thrust.
So I think you are thinking of the glass pessimistically as almost empty rather than optimistically as overflowing with air. In other words , there is almost certainly a much larger audience even in academia than those who could examine your thesis in this entirety. And if the second book option is what "lots of people are interested in", then that will certainly include publishers, whose first thought is usually "how many copies could it sell?"
[ 20. February 2013, 03:42: Message edited by: Tukai ]
--------------------
A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
Go an search for journals for "Congregational Studies". We publish in related journals so I have one paper in liturgy journal, one paper ready for an ecumenics journal, then perhaps one for an applied/practical theology journal (there is a South African one that takes a lot of Congregational Studies stuff) and one or two for sociology of religion journals, maybe something into an ethnography journal etc. There are papers printed in organisational studies journals and there are websites which are pretty good. This is what my supervisors suggests and he's a Prof in this area.
There seems to have just started a book series with papers in it on Eccleisiology and Ethnography and there are in the UK two other collected works (one by SCM one by Ashgate). Then there are the individual works. I suspect that in the actual area in the UK we are talking less than a dozen books. In the US where it is bigger we are talking maybe twenty to thirty books. Not all of these are relevant. Reading of course reflects publishing, in that I read widely outside the direct tradition as well.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
