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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: "Megachurch With a Beat"
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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
I have heard about the widespread infiltration of prosperity doctrines in the USA, but I admit I find it an awkward fit for white, middle class, professional Britain.
From what I have seen of Hillsong London, it's not that white and has a lot of students - particularly international students. So you have different cultures and young people who while they may be in university themselves are not necessarily from well-off backgrounds. Aspirational Christianity might speak quite directly to their needs actually.
Ah, that makes more sense.
I'm afraid that the cynic in me (and the former Methodist church steward) finds that the more mainstream churches are, at best, somewhat ambivalent about money. On the one hand, they look askance at Christians in other denominations who make a hoo-ha about personal financial success; but on the other, they're often desperate to fundraise for various building projects, and they expect greater sacrificial giving from their congregations to be a part of that. It used to be one of my jobs to urge the congregation to give more! But where do we think the money is going to come from if we're all supposedly indifferent to financial success?
Count your blessings if your church benefits from good finances without having to make regular appeals, and without having to justify or prolong the success via some sort of prosperity doctrine.
[ 12. September 2014, 16:26: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
Without naming names - and this certainly wasn't a Hillsongs church - but relatives of mine were once involved with a church that went heavily down the 'success' route ... the pastor was interested in anyone who somehow 'made it' or got a platform for themselves in some setting or other - be it business, the arts, the media, academia ...
Sure, we're not talking A listed celebs here nor even celebs at all ... but people who had, if you like, a reasonable profile in whatever field it happened to be.
The result of all this was that if you were a school dinner-lady or a postman or something he just didn't want to know ...
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
If Hillsongs are going for the shiny, aspirational international student types then I doubt they're doing a great deal - as Twangist says - for people in the South African townships or those living in Tower Hamlets.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Gamaliel
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# 812
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Posted
Be careful, though, SvitlanaV2. I can see what you're driving at but a certain Maggie Thatcher used to go round saying that the only reason the Good Samaritan could do what he did was because he had the means to do it ...
On one level that's all too true - on another level it misses the point completely.
Sure, traditional churches are ambivalent about money and the fundraising thing is always an issue - but what Hillsongs and churches like them seem to do is to make a 'theology' (if that's the right word, I doubt it is) of success and aspiration ...
In some contexts, I could see that as a good thing - but what tends to happen in practice within more working class Pentecostal groups - and I've seen this happen - is that people get ripped off by unscrupulous freeloaders.
It's a tricky area as there are bags of enterprise and drive about some of these churches that can have an ameliorating and empowering effect ... but at the same time it tends to be certain people who get the cream ...
I remember reading about Jim and Tammy Bakke's TV-evangelist empire in the southern USA. Some of their biggest supporters and those who gave the most were the ones who had least to give - 'trailer-trash' poor whites ... The article suggested that there was something vicarious in it all - they seemed to take delight in seeing someone being materially successful - even if it wasn't themselves - and even if this material success was coming at their expense ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I suppose that if any one Christian or Christian organisation had the authority to ban prosperity teaching or the psychological pressure exercised by any particular evangelist or church, many people would find some other way to donate to the unapproved leaders and churches whom they admired, and whose theology appealed to them. There will always be those willing to give money in the hope of receiving some benefit, spiritual, psychological or otherwise.
There's also the cultural factor. As you say, some poor white Americans will feel flattered to be contributing to the success of one of theirs, whereas putting their money into the edifice of a better regulated but largely middle class institution wouldn't give them the same sense of satisfaction. And going back to seekingsister's foreign students, I understand that African spirituality, for example, has often had a pragmatic streak which makes it acceptable that religious devotion should have earthly as well as otherworldly advantages. From this perspective, you could say that liberation theology and prosperity theology are different sides of the same coin, shocking though that may sound to some....
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
* Kevin Durant and Fiance Split over Religious Differences
That doesn't read like a 'religious difference' - unless objecting to one's fiancé playing away has become an outdated form of religious prejudice.
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[ 14. September 2014, 16:33: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by seekingsister:
* Kevin Durant and Fiance Split over Religious Differences
That doesn't read like a 'religious difference' - unless objecting to one's fiancé playing away has become an odd and outdated form of religious bigotry.
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[ 14. September 2014, 16:33: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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