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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Scottish Independence and the Monarchy
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ORGANMEISTER
Shipmate
# 6621
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Posted
IF the Scots vote for independence from the UK, and IF they chose to retain some form of monarchy is Elizabeth II still the queen of Scotland? If she isn't, who is the rightful sovereign.
Are there any heirs from the Stuart line who might be?
Could any descendents of Charles II's illegitimate children qualify? I believe Prince William is descended through the Spencer line from one of Charles II's children.
I also understand that the flamboyant Duchess of Alba is a possible contender?
What are the chances that the Scots would retain any sort of monarchy?
Posts: 3162 | From: Somerset, PA - USA | Registered: May 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
They are bound to retain the monarchy at first, for the simple reason, not to frighten the horses. To add republicanism to the yes campaign would sink it.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
If anything would burnish Independence in my eyes, it would be the prospect of getting rid of the whole pointless clamjamfrie.
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
The Queen would remain Elizabeth I, Queen of Scots, in Scotland - that's not up for discussion next Thursday.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
There is a Jacobite heir to the throne (actually several, depending on who you talk to), but it's irrelevant as Liz will still be Queen of Scots after independence.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Yes, no question. She is undoubtedly their Queen as much as ours and AIUI all other things being equal would, if the 1707 Act/ Treaty of Union had not happened, even now be reigning as Elizabeth I of Scots.
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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
I assume that the title of Scotland, would be the "Kingdom of Scotland."
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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
I'm sure Salmond and the SNP would make a big thing about being the "Kingdom of Scotland" and repealing the Treaty of Union.
And the traditional form address of the Queen of Scots was "Her Grace", not "Her Majesty"
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I assume that the title of Scotland, would be the "Kingdom of Scotland."
You'd think, but that's not what the draft constitution says.
According to the explanatory notes:
quote:
Section 5 simply provides that the name of the State will be Scotland. This will be the formal name of the State when it participates in international organisations and signs international treaties.
It is commonly thought that States may have an everyday name, as well as a somewhat different formal name. For many States that is the case with formal names such as the Kingdom of Belgium, the Federal Republic of Germany, the Hellenic Republic, for Greece, or the Grand- Duchy of Luxembourg. But this is not a requirement. The formal name can be the same as the everyday name, such as in Article 4 of the Irish Constitution, which provides that: “The name of the State is...Ireland.”
Scotland, as an entity and as a people, is widely recognised across the world and the Scottish Government believes that it is appropriate and straightforward that the name by which our State will choose to call itself reflects that existing recognition – Scotland.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
Interestingly, I have seen proposals to rename the Presiding Officer of the Scottish Assembly to Lord Chancellor of Scotland, as the Scots LC presided over the Parliament of Scotland pre 1707.
So perhaps the SNP is just catering to tender republican consciouses.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The heir through the Stuart line would be Duke Franz of Bavaria.
If they choose to follow the line of Charles II's illegitimate children, then you can choose from one of the following dukes: Richmond, St Albans, Grafton or Buccleuch.
Buccleuch would be the obvious choice because he's actually a Scot.
But there is no reason for the Scots to ditch the Queen since she is also a legitimate heir and the direct line died out with a cardinal back in the early 19th century.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
And the traditional form address of the Queen of Scots was "Her Grace", not "Her Majesty"
As was the traditional form of address for Kings and Queens of England. "Your Majesty" made gradual inroads beginning with Henry VIII, but was only really set in stone by James VI & I.
Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
cf Macaulay's marvellously stirring poem The Armada:
quote:
With his white hair, unbonneted, the stout old sheriff comes;
Behind him march the halberdiers; before him sound the drums;
His yeomen round the market cross make clear an ample space;
For there behoves him to set up the standard of Her Grace.
Written first half of C19 but Macaulay knew what he was doing.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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