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Source: (consider it) Thread: Thank God I'm a country boy!
Rowen
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# 1194

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In Australia, we divide rural into two sections.... Rural AND rural remote.
As a minister, I have lived and worked in the inner- city, suburbia, small towns, and now, rural remote. I skipped rural altogether, graduating to the remote side of life pretty quickly. In fact, I moved from inner-city to rural remote a few years ago. Life became adventurous, fascinating, challenging... All at once.
Currently I live in a town of about two thousand. My nearest town is an hour away.... About four thousand there. My parish is five hours drive wide and fours hours long, mostly in fairly inaccessible mountains (snow, mud, wind, fire- depending on season, and dirt roads. Population three hundred).
My denomination had a special department of ministers, who specifically serve in rural remote parishes. There are about 20 of us. Some of my colleagues travel up to 900 kms between churches, or fly planes, so I am on the rather tamer side of rural remote.
We find that city folk don't really get rural remote, as we are too far away to understand. Jobs in many fields remain vacant as folk don't want to move too far from cities. Not quite such an issue for merely rural places.
Out here, everyone knows your name and everything else about you. Bothersome at times, but life- saving at others. If I stop my logo-emblazoned car for any reason, envy one stops to see if I am still alive...
Interesting mix of politics, income and educational level. Some very theologically- educated people, along every line of reason and emotion... People are in touch with tne bare bones of life, and death. Natural disaster is always only a day away. Humour is quick. Life is often touchingly funny... And sad.
I love my ministry.
The views are spectacular.
The people are quirky.

I am definitely rural remote now. I won't go back to tne big cities permanently every again.

I type this in a hotel, inner-city, and capital of the state at that. My vacation has been fun, but I look forward to returning to my own world tomorrow.

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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...

Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Latchkey Kid
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quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
In Australia, we divide rural into two sections.... Rural AND rural remote.

.......
Currently I live in a town of about two thousand. My nearest town is an hour away.... About four thousand there.

Rowen. Is the town you live in not your nearest town? Are your numbers typoed?

I live in rural coastal. The wizardest town is about 3500. Only 60kms from a major city, but a long way from the state capital. Sydneysiders and the state politicians think NSW stands for Newcastle, Sydney and Wollongong. Queenslanders have similar problems. One described himslef as coming from the FBI - the Forgotten Buggers Inland.

Our town is a good place to live. In the main streets I am always meeting people I meet. But that was also true of the inner urban communities I have lived in that were part of capital cities.

Not sure that we will be able to stay here forever as the the health care facilities are not so good for oldies.

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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner

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Heavenly Anarchist
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
I too was feeling I'd spent WaY too much time posting about what I like about where I live. I think for me it's about having spent too much time very unhappy in the country and very reminded of how easy it can be for a town to curl up and ignore everyone who is different. I'm sure cities do have similar social faults (different from the risks of living in a city) though I'm not sure what they are, but the faults of a city are too close to me to be so obvious.

What tendencies to cities have that are frustrating? I gather it's partially that cities tend to have the money, and ignore the smaller towns?

Partially that, but as I grew up with fields at the back of the garden I've always felt being in an environment where instead there's just more and more streets behind me and it's miles to the real world (yes, to me the natural world is real, the city artificial) to be claustrophobic. The other problems I have with cities is that they always seem to be noisy and grubby. Good honest cowshit I can cope with; litter, city grime and graffiti get me down.
See, I think my love of the rural is part of an escape from my upbringing on a rough estate without nature, just as my love of the city brings me the culture (museums, galleries, old buildings) that my youth never had. I escaped my upbringing and emerged myself in other experiences.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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See, thing is, I don't particularly associate old buildings and museums with cities. The old buildings I love best are mostly not in cities - castles, ruined abbeys etc. etc. Museums exist elsewhere - rather enjoyed the one at Whitby only last month. Galleries I can't speak for because they don't interest me.

I like taking the kids to the natural history museum from time to time but it doesn't really save the city for me; there's no earthly reason it couldn't be somewhere other than South Kensington; it's mere historical accident. I rather wish it wasn't because it makes it a complete pain in the arse to get to.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Rowen
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quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
quote:
Originally posted by Rowen:
In Australia, we divide rural into two sections.... Rural AND rural remote.

.......
Currently I live in a town of about two thousand. My nearest town is an hour away.... About four thousand there.

Rowen. Is the town you live in not your nearest town? Are your numbers typoed?

I live in rural coastal. The wizardest town is about 3500. Only 60kms from a major city, but a long way from the state capital. Sydneysiders and the state politicians think NSW stands for Newcastle, Sydney and Wollongong. Queenslanders have similar problems. One described himslef as coming from the FBI - the Forgotten Buggers Inland.

Our town is a good place to live. In the main streets I am always meeting people I meet. But that was also true of the inner urban communities I have lived in that were part of capital cities.

Not sure that we will be able to stay here forever as the the health care facilities are not so good for oldies.

Oops, I live in my town, but the next place is an hour away. Should have said that. At home, we all dream of big city groceries, or evn of bigger town groceries.... All that choice.

Today, on vacation in tne capital city, taxi drivers seem amazed that sensible folk , like me, could live "out there" and be happy.

2000 in my home town.... But they get bigger the further down the line.

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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...

Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pomona
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
See, thing is, I don't particularly associate old buildings and museums with cities. The old buildings I love best are mostly not in cities - castles, ruined abbeys etc. etc. Museums exist elsewhere - rather enjoyed the one at Whitby only last month. Galleries I can't speak for because they don't interest me.

I like taking the kids to the natural history museum from time to time but it doesn't really save the city for me; there's no earthly reason it couldn't be somewhere other than South Kensington; it's mere historical accident. I rather wish it wasn't because it makes it a complete pain in the arse to get to.

But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.

And it doesn't have to be London - there are lots of lovely cities like Manchester or Birmingham with plenty of cultural activities. Living in a cultureless wasteland at the moment is really difficult.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Albertus
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Nirthampton a cultureless wasteland? Is outrage! I mean, you've got the Henry Moore and the Graham Sutherland at St Matthew's, and a bit of Charles Rennie Mackintosh, and then, er, the Express Lift Tower, and, um...
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Pomona
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Nirthampton a cultureless wasteland? Is outrage! I mean, you've got the Henry Moore and the Graham Sutherland at St Matthew's, and a bit of Charles Rennie Mackintosh, and then, er, the Express Lift Tower, and, um...

Definitely not referring to Northampton as a cultureless wasteland [Smile] I no longer live there. As I said upthread, I now live between Reading and Basingstoke, near Aldermaston. There are some pockets of interest, like some nice pubs and the National Needlework Archives, plus of course Greenham Common, but it's not a massively interesting area of Hants/Berks - at least not the more suburban side of it. I mean I have Reading for shopping, cinema etc but it's a bit soulless.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Horseman Bree
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Why does one have to have a city in order to be entertained? I last, at best, about three hours in a downtown area - nothing to do but shop (unless you have business in a bland office box), and you have to pay rent to occupy any space for a time. Might as well put parking meters on every available space, and give food and beer away free.

Having grown up on the Prairies, I need a wide space around me for at least a bit of every day. Fortunately there is diked marshland here which gives enough vista, and is quiet enough for my rather ADD dog (as if I didn't have the same affliction!) Between the woods, the open land and the neighbourly thing of having someone to talk to whenever one needs, I am much happier in the village than anywhere else.

I know this doesn't work for everyone.

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It's Not That Simple

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Pomona
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quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
Why does one have to have a city in order to be entertained? I last, at best, about three hours in a downtown area - nothing to do but shop (unless you have business in a bland office box), and you have to pay rent to occupy any space for a time. Might as well put parking meters on every available space, and give food and beer away free.

Having grown up on the Prairies, I need a wide space around me for at least a bit of every day. Fortunately there is diked marshland here which gives enough vista, and is quiet enough for my rather ADD dog (as if I didn't have the same affliction!) Between the woods, the open land and the neighbourly thing of having someone to talk to whenever one needs, I am much happier in the village than anywhere else.

I know this doesn't work for everyone.

Shopping provides plenty of entertainment for me, depending on the shops - I could spend hours in a good department store beauty hall. Not quite sure what you mean by paying rent to occupy any space for a time - do you mean for car parking? I can't drive so would be using the bus/other public transport. Obviously, this is not applicable in the US in the same way it is here. Even in the fairly rural area I live in, there's a bus to the nearest big town every 20 minutes or so.

I am interested to know what you do for fun/hobbies that's not doable in a town or city.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Ariel
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# 58

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.

I divided my time between four capital cities as a child and visited a lot of different countries. Coming to live in an English suburb was difficult; I never liked it and when I got to Oxford I never moved back.

Thse days I live on the edge of the countryside and - times change. I've had my fill of museums, though not of galleries; I don't miss films or the cinema. I don't care so much for the hard grey pavements, gritty breezes, streets redolent from the night before, hordes of tourists, and expensive prices: I've done all that.

At first I hated being stuck out in the sticks. But since then, I've learnt to appreciate the slower pace of life in the countryside and to enjoy the rhythm of the changing seasons. The land is an open book, there to be read, changing day by day. It has treasures and secrets, if you look, and are willing to befriend it.

My most enduring memories are of long, winding country roads, dappled with sunlight; fields with spring lambs taking their first wobbly steps in this new, cold spring world; country pubs with real fires; pretty little cottages; the incredible, subtle palette of winter, and the explosion of colour and life that is summer. The way a landscape, glimpsed through gaps in hedges or over old stone walls, can sometimes be lovely. The fun of country shows, customs and festivals, farmers' markets, friendly people, the funfairs of the autumn, the enjoyment of fruit picking, and if you want it, the pleasure of exploring the National Trust properties and the art collections that aren't held in cities (you must have heard of Compton Verney, for one). You can always get tea/coffee somewhere and often some extremely good homemade cakes. We do all right in the provinces.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.

And it doesn't have to be London - there are lots of lovely cities like Manchester or Birmingham with plenty of cultural activities. Living in a cultureless wasteland at the moment is really difficult.

Nature is endlessly fascinating (to me) and always changing. The weather, the plants and animals, the waterflow patterns.

There's growing stuff, cooking, sewing. Getting together with others to trade apples for eggs or somesuch. And church, and sewing circles and book clubs and community theater and hunting clubs and game night. Etc. What we in the US would call high culture isn't the only kind of culture.

quote:
Shopping provides plenty of entertainment for me, depending on the shops - I could spend hours in a good department store beauty hall.
Ah. There's the difference between us. I think shopping is an activity to be avoided until absolutely necessary.

quote:
I am interested to know what you do for fun/hobbies that's not doable in a town or city.
Walk for hours enjoying the scenery without worrying about running into another human being who may or may not be dangerous or friendly or angry or confusing in some way shape or form.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
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quote:
Nature is endlessly fascinating (to me) and always changing. The weather, the plants and animals, the waterflow patterns.

There's growing stuff, cooking, sewing. Getting together with others to trade apples for eggs or somesuch. And church, and sewing circles and book clubs and community theater and hunting clubs and game night. Etc. What we in the US would call high culture isn't the only kind of culture.


Building stuff, raising animals, participating in community events...
I wish I was rural. Every time I get free time, I go to the country. One of my favorite vacations was when I stayed in a small coastal town on the weekend they had their Christmas tree lighting ceremony. The town was so small that pretty much everyone who lived there was gathered around that tree.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

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Albertus
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# 13356

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Nirthampton a cultureless wasteland? Is outrage! I mean, you've got the Henry Moore and the Graham Sutherland at St Matthew's, and a bit of Charles Rennie Mackintosh, and then, er, the Express Lift Tower, and, um...

Definitely not referring to Northampton as a cultureless wasteland [Smile] I no longer live there. As I said upthread, I now live between Reading and Basingstoke, near Aldermaston. There are some pockets of interest, like some nice pubs and the National Needlework Archives, plus of course Greenham Common, but it's not a massively interesting area of Hants/Berks - at least not the more suburban side of it. I mean I have Reading for shopping, cinema etc but it's a bit soulless.
Oh, right I see! Yes, quite. Stanley Spencers at Cookham and Burghclere but otherwise...
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Horseman Bree
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# 5290

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:

I am interested to know what you do for fun/hobbies that's not doable in a town or city.

I am involved in a small church community that actually functions well as a social entity, as well as the more obvious "church" function; I enjoy being outside walking (with or without the dog) and have a variety of landscapes to walk in; I have enough space for a large woodworking shop in my basement, with direct outside access (helpful when you build boats!); my wife and I enjoy gardening in our half-acre; I volunteer at the local high school, without all the tiresome security issues (I have been involved there for 43 years now, and know several generations of people as a result); there is a choice of 4 coffee/conversation places within a mile or so; the list goes on.

Obviously, having worked/lived in the same place for 43 years (and the same house for 31 of those) makes a difference: I am no longer entertained by crowds of passive wanderers who do not know each other, or, for that matter, crowds of pub/club goers who have to be sure that they are noticed. (One of my daughters lives downtown in Toronto, and I do notice the near-hysteria level of anxiety displayed amongst her acquaintances.)

And I don't have to deal with traffic most of the time. Quiet is good.

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It's Not That Simple

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Angloid
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The anonymity of city life can be positive. There are plenty of networks for socialising but you don't have to spend your whole life in the company of the same people. A nephew of mine (now 40) who has spent his whole life in the same village has his private life and relationships discussed in every pub and shop counter. Not because they are in any way bizarre or unconventional, just that living in a village is like living on the set of a soap opera.
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
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That's very true. And you can get both experiences at the same time by living as part of a small ethnic community in a big city. Soap opera in real life all week, then go to the opera on Saturday.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Rowen
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I go to big cities occasionally. The shops are horrifying... Malls are bigger, both physically and population-wise than my whole town. The noise and crowds are overwhelming. Traffic in cities is baaaaaaddddd. Cities smell. Where are the stars?

I loved in huge cities most of my life, but never noticed any of the above. But not now.

In rural Australia, there are different things to do and be. Church life matters. Community activities and groups become important. Hobbies, walks, rural art galleries and museums, beaches, friends....

I wouldn't go back now.

I find plenty of ways to fill in my time.

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"May I live this day… compassionate of heart" (John O’Donoghue)...

Posts: 4897 | From: Somewhere cold in Victoria, Australia | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
See, thing is, I don't particularly associate old buildings and museums with cities. The old buildings I love best are mostly not in cities - castles, ruined abbeys etc. etc. Museums exist elsewhere - rather enjoyed the one at Whitby only last month. Galleries I can't speak for because they don't interest me.

I like taking the kids to the natural history museum from time to time but it doesn't really save the city for me; there's no earthly reason it couldn't be somewhere other than South Kensington; it's mere historical accident. I rather wish it wasn't because it makes it a complete pain in the arse to get to.

But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.

And it doesn't have to be London - there are lots of lovely cities like Manchester or Birmingham with plenty of cultural activities. Living in a cultureless wasteland at the moment is really difficult.

Nope. Not bored at all. The museums, cinemas etc. are available on the end of a bus/train/cycle.

What do I do for fun? Pint or three down the local pub (they exist out in the sticks, you know. And generally less noisy and full of pissheads than too many city pubs). Walking. Cycling - neither much fun in the city. The guitar plays just the same out here as it would in the centre of Sheffield.

You ask "I am interested to know what you do for fun/hobbies that's not doable in a town or city." - the answer is that I don't think I do anything for fun that's better in a city. And as I've already mentioned, cycling and walking would be a lot worse. What on earth is "people watching"?

My kids are 6, 7 and 10. They can play safely unsupervised outside here.

[ 29. September 2014, 11:22: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I should add that not living in a city doesn't mean never visiting one. We yokels do go to the cinema you know. We just don't feel the need to live next to it.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Angloid
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# 159

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It's all relative anyway. Having moved back to one of the UK's larger cities after 11 years in London, the positive differences are [1] a less frenetic pace of life; [2] a sense of being part of the whole rather than a small unit of an incomprehensible vastness; [3] while 'cultural' events, exhibitions, plays etc are plentiful there are not so many of them that you despair of ever keeping up; [4] it doesn't take a whole day to get from one end of the city to the other.

Visiting London now, I notice a vibrancy and high-voltage charge about the place which I miss. I miss too the much greater ethnic and cultural mix. But it is much more hard work than living in a smaller and more laid-back community.

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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!

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Angloid
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# 159

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I should add that not living in a city doesn't mean never visiting one. We yokels do go to the cinema you know. We just don't feel the need to live next to it.

How do you get there though? The main reason I would never live in the country is the lack of frequent (or even any) public transport.

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Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!

Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I think there's a matter of potatoes and potahtoes as well. What you call "vibrancy" and "high voltage charge", I might call "noise" and "confusing, threatening and anxiety-inducing."

[Biased]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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L'organist
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# 17338

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posted by Jade Constable
quote:
But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.
Once I'd recovered from my helpless laughter I copied this to discuss with the offspring since they've spent all their lives in a village within striking distance of a small country town: their answers...

Depending on the weather they meet up with friends for Barbeques, rugby; there's the hockey and cricket clubs, not to mention tennis. If they feel the need for more there's fishing, plus we're all really good at blackberrying and fruit scrumping.

The coast is only a short drive away so we sail, surf and wake-board and we have sea kayaks, plus the ordinary delights of the beach (I swim throughout the year unless it gets really cold).

As children they built camps at the bottom of the garden, dammed streams, dug for gold (alas without success), played Pooh-sticks.

With the rest of the family being big city dwellers they've had plenty of opportunity to experience the joys of city life and convenience; their verdict is that its fine if you want to do something but a terrible environment if you just want to do nothing.

And as I remind them, there's always the gardening to help with if they really don't know what to do with their time ...

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I should add that not living in a city doesn't mean never visiting one. We yokels do go to the cinema you know. We just don't feel the need to live next to it.

How do you get there though? The main reason I would never live in the country is the lack of frequent (or even any) public transport.
Bike, taxi, car... It's not like I go very often, perhaps once a year for a film I want to see, perhaps twice more for films one or more of the kids wants to see. And I only live three miles from it. The shack the Dursleys row to in the first Harry Potter film isn't the only alternative to living virtually on Picadilly Circus.

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Angloid
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Well I live well over three miles from the city centre. But transport is frequent (train and bus) and - for me, oldie - free. I wouldn't fancy cycling on city roads but having seen the way some country folk drive I'd be even less keen to do it there. Car and taxi are both expensive, polluting and environment destroying.

But people are different. And your children probably enjoy country life in a way that I can't see ours, when they were younger, ever really doing.

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Erroneous Monk
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Regardless of preference, aren't cities the future? How else are increasing numbers of people going to be able to make the most efficient use of scarce resources, as well as looking after the countryside we have left?

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Regardless of preference, aren't cities the future? How else are increasing numbers of people going to be able to make the most efficient use of scarce resources, as well as looking after the countryside we have left?

Perhaps the problem there is the "increasing numbers of people" part? I doubt it's a coincidence that rural constituencies are more likely to return MPs from parties that tend to be less keen on immigration.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
Regardless of preference, aren't cities the future? How else are increasing numbers of people going to be able to make the most efficient use of scarce resources, as well as looking after the countryside we have left?

Probably. Doesn't mean I'm going to enjoy it.

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Piglet
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# 11803

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quote:
Originally posted by Palimpsest:
... they got lost [in New York] and asked for help and were surprised about how friendly and helpful the locals are ...

I'll go along with that: I tripped and fell over a paving-stone in New York and was pleasantly surprised when a passing gentleman helped me up and asked if I was all right.

The same goes for Glasgow: while standing at a junction consulting a street-map, a chap stopped and asked where I was looking for and promptly gave me directions.

These may be isolated exceptions, but they slightly change one's perceptions of big-city unfriendliness.

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
posted by Jade Constable
quote:
But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.
Once I'd recovered from my helpless laughter I copied this to discuss with the offspring since they've spent all their lives in a village within striking distance of a small country town: their answers...

Depending on the weather they meet up with friends for Barbeques, rugby; there's the hockey and cricket clubs, not to mention tennis. If they feel the need for more there's fishing, plus we're all really good at blackberrying and fruit scrumping.

The coast is only a short drive away so we sail, surf and wake-board and we have sea kayaks, plus the ordinary delights of the beach (I swim throughout the year unless it gets really cold).

As children they built camps at the bottom of the garden, dammed streams, dug for gold (alas without success), played Pooh-sticks.

With the rest of the family being big city dwellers they've had plenty of opportunity to experience the joys of city life and convenience; their verdict is that its fine if you want to do something but a terrible environment if you just want to do nothing.

And as I remind them, there's always the gardening to help with if they really don't know what to do with their time ...

So mostly sport then? I have no interest in any of those things (and can't swim or ride a bike anyway - very poor hand-eye coordination). If you're not the outdoorsy type then it doesn't seem like there's much to do.

Also it seems difficult to live in the country without being able to drive - certainly I find living here (semi-rural) difficult because of that.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.

And it doesn't have to be London - there are lots of lovely cities like Manchester or Birmingham with plenty of cultural activities. Living in a cultureless wasteland at the moment is really difficult.

Nature is endlessly fascinating (to me) and always changing. The weather, the plants and animals, the waterflow patterns.

There's growing stuff, cooking, sewing. Getting together with others to trade apples for eggs or somesuch. And church, and sewing circles and book clubs and community theater and hunting clubs and game night. Etc. What we in the US would call high culture isn't the only kind of culture.

quote:
Shopping provides plenty of entertainment for me, depending on the shops - I could spend hours in a good department store beauty hall.
Ah. There's the difference between us. I think shopping is an activity to be avoided until absolutely necessary.

quote:
I am interested to know what you do for fun/hobbies that's not doable in a town or city.
Walk for hours enjoying the scenery without worrying about running into another human being who may or may not be dangerous or friendly or angry or confusing in some way shape or form.

But all those things are doable in a city! Nature exists in cities (foxes, hedgehogs, sparrowhawks etc) and people have allotments and chickens. The only thing on your list that isn't done in cities in the UK is hunting - in fact I think you're more likely to find those things in a city here.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
See, thing is, I don't particularly associate old buildings and museums with cities. The old buildings I love best are mostly not in cities - castles, ruined abbeys etc. etc. Museums exist elsewhere - rather enjoyed the one at Whitby only last month. Galleries I can't speak for because they don't interest me.

I like taking the kids to the natural history museum from time to time but it doesn't really save the city for me; there's no earthly reason it couldn't be somewhere other than South Kensington; it's mere historical accident. I rather wish it wasn't because it makes it a complete pain in the arse to get to.

But don't you get really bored? I mean I guess in the country kids can entertain themselves and as a childfree person am not bothered by whether kids are entertained by where I live, but living in some kind of cultureless nothingness with no galleries or museums or cinemas or coffee shops for people watching or botanical gardens etc etc just sounds so boring to me. I mean, what do you do for fun? If I lived in the country I'd have my own books, films etc but there'd be nothing for me to do outside my own home.

And it doesn't have to be London - there are lots of lovely cities like Manchester or Birmingham with plenty of cultural activities. Living in a cultureless wasteland at the moment is really difficult.

Nope. Not bored at all. The museums, cinemas etc. are available on the end of a bus/train/cycle.

What do I do for fun? Pint or three down the local pub (they exist out in the sticks, you know. And generally less noisy and full of pissheads than too many city pubs). Walking. Cycling - neither much fun in the city. The guitar plays just the same out here as it would in the centre of Sheffield.

You ask "I am interested to know what you do for fun/hobbies that's not doable in a town or city." - the answer is that I don't think I do anything for fun that's better in a city. And as I've already mentioned, cycling and walking would be a lot worse. What on earth is "people watching"?

My kids are 6, 7 and 10. They can play safely unsupervised outside here.

Pubs I'll grant you. I can't ride a bike so not applicable to me, but I can also see that that's much better outside of cities. There are plenty of interesting walks within cities though.

People watching is what it sounds like - watching people! It's just fun imagining what people are up to and what their lives are like. My favourite spot for it is in the Waterstones opposite the Bullring in Birmingham - floor to ceiling glass windows, and there's a gap in front of the lift which gives an uninterrupted view. Last time I was there, there was a great busker outside too - fab bit of time out in the city.

Forgot to say this in answer to L'Organist but it fits in well here too - there are plenty of areas in cities where you can do just nothing. Parks, cemeteries (the one in the Jewellery Quarter is a nice one with a good view of the city, or of course the Magnificent Seven across London, the most famous of which is Highgate), less-used areas of museums and galleries, libraries, the aviary in London Zoo. As an introvert who loves cities, you find them all out.

Also UK cities that aren't London are very different to London, and don't have the manic edge that it has.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But all those things are doable in a city! Nature exists in cities (foxes, hedgehogs, sparrowhawks etc)

[Killing me]
Of course there is some nature in a city, but the difference, both in terms of quality and quantity, is huge.

You're trying to interest a gentleman from Newcastle in this interesting kind of black combustible rock you've found.

Cities smell. They are crowded, noisy, dirty, and full of people (it takes real effort to find somewhere out of sight or earshot of people in cities.)

Some people like the crowds. Apparently, you like staring at other people and guessing what they're doing. I'd rather watch the grass grow.

Some people aren't so keen on the large crowds, but put up with them because they like the museums, the galleries, the clubs catering to niche interests or the anonymity.

Some people are happier in the country, and don't think the "culture" in cities is worth it.

Yes, country people are either complete recluses or "outdoorsy". The countryside is outdoors. If you go to the country and stay inside buildings all the time, you're missing the point.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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He's right. I lived for a few years near the centre of Sheffield (not London - nearest I've been to living in London was living in Watford. Close enough. I have the remaining dodgy marbles I still have because I've never lived there....). We moved, before we had children, because:

1. We were fed up of getting back after a few days away and wondering if this time the burglars had managed to get in;
2. Having to drive for half an hour before getting somewhere for a nice walk. No, I do not find walking in cities at all interesting. Walking involves open moors, steep mountain slopes, river banks with cows going moo and sheep going baa, and woods that aren't full of burnt-out Vauxhall Novas;
3. When I go to the pub I prefer to be able to sit down and not have to queue for ages to get served;
4. Probably most significant, and germane to the OP here, I grew up in a village three miles from the nearest town. I know how to be a child in a village, because I was one. I can therefore help my children be children in a village. I have no idea how to be a child in the inner city, and no idea how to help mine if they grew up in one.

There's a perfectly good railway station at the bottom of the hill for the rare occasions we need Sheffield now. I have to work there, unfortunately; not the hour each way bike ride I'd choose, but the home half of it's pleasantly rural.

[ 29. September 2014, 15:37: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I should add I'm not into sports either. There's plenty to do without having to be able to hit or kick balls and all that stuff. That's as alien to me as sitting in a café watching people.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Fuzzipeg
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I've also lived in Watford, Carl..also Chesham, London, Norfolk, Cape Town, Bloemfontein, the middle of no-where in the Free State, Lesotho and for the past 17 years, Johannesburg. I've enjoyed them all in different ways and have been happy to accept the negatives as well as the positives.
I do get irritated by magazines that glamorise country living when people are struggling to survive huge distances from their markets and pay so much more than city dwellers do in the shops without the choice. The country can have everything you need but nothing you want. Everyone knowing your business can be a huge problem! Everyone knows she's pregnant and by whom at the other end of the village before she's left the doctor's surgery!

The disadvantages of city life are well-known an d particularly the violent city I live in but there is an energy about a cosmopolitan city that is quite seductive.

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But all those things are doable in a city! Nature exists in cities (foxes, hedgehogs, sparrowhawks etc)

[Killing me]
Of course there is some nature in a city, but the difference, both in terms of quality and quantity, is huge.

You're trying to interest a gentleman from Newcastle in this interesting kind of black combustible rock you've found.

Cities smell. They are crowded, noisy, dirty, and full of people (it takes real effort to find somewhere out of sight or earshot of people in cities.)

Some people like the crowds. Apparently, you like staring at other people and guessing what they're doing. I'd rather watch the grass grow.

Some people aren't so keen on the large crowds, but put up with them because they like the museums, the galleries, the clubs catering to niche interests or the anonymity.

Some people are happier in the country, and don't think the "culture" in cities is worth it.

Yes, country people are either complete recluses or "outdoorsy". The countryside is outdoors. If you go to the country and stay inside buildings all the time, you're missing the point.

Well no, it's not the crowds I like as such, and there's loads of places in cities that aren't crowded. You don't have to be in a crowded place to people-watch - when I'm in Waterstones I'm not in a crowded place, I'm just watching the more crowded place.

And not all parts of cities are noisy, crowded, dirty and full of people - I mean you couldn't say that about Highgate Cemetery could you?

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
He's right. I lived for a few years near the centre of Sheffield (not London - nearest I've been to living in London was living in Watford. Close enough. I have the remaining dodgy marbles I still have because I've never lived there....). We moved, before we had children, because:

1. We were fed up of getting back after a few days away and wondering if this time the burglars had managed to get in;
2. Having to drive for half an hour before getting somewhere for a nice walk. No, I do not find walking in cities at all interesting. Walking involves open moors, steep mountain slopes, river banks with cows going moo and sheep going baa, and woods that aren't full of burnt-out Vauxhall Novas;
3. When I go to the pub I prefer to be able to sit down and not have to queue for ages to get served;
4. Probably most significant, and germane to the OP here, I grew up in a village three miles from the nearest town. I know how to be a child in a village, because I was one. I can therefore help my children be children in a village. I have no idea how to be a child in the inner city, and no idea how to help mine if they grew up in one.

There's a perfectly good railway station at the bottom of the hill for the rare occasions we need Sheffield now. I have to work there, unfortunately; not the hour each way bike ride I'd choose, but the home half of it's pleasantly rural.

In fairness - I lived near the centre of Coventry until I was 17, and we were never broken into and I certainly don't recognise the woods full of burnt-out cars. There was a small bit of woodland by my secondary school and it was perfectly safe and pretty crime-free (afaik anyway). Stealing horses and farm equipment seems to be reasonably common in the fairly rural area I live in now - crime still exists in the countryside, it's just different crime.

It's not that I don't enjoy the countryside, not at all - I've said elsewhere on the thread about my happy holiday memories. However as an introvert I find it far easier to hide and be anonymous in the city - I feel alone in an exposed and anxiety-inducing way in the countryside.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Well no, it's not the crowds I like as such, and there's loads of places in cities that aren't crowded. You don't have to be in a crowded place to people-watch - when I'm in Waterstones I'm not in a crowded place, I'm just watching the more crowded place.

As far as I'm concerned, if I can see the crowd, I'm in the crowd. The fact that nobody is actually jostling my elbow isn't very relevant - they're all within reach. The only time this becomes less true is if I am at the top of a very tall building, watching crowds of people scurrying around below. At that remove, they are more like ants than people, and so don't feel like a crowd.

quote:

And not all parts of cities are noisy, crowded, dirty and full of people - I mean you couldn't say that about Highgate Cemetery could you?

There's a "full of people" quip in there just begging to be let out.

I've never been to Highgate Cemetery. It appears to basically be a city park that charges admission fees and happens to have some graves. But I'm not sure that "cities aren't all noisy and crowded because we've got this cemetery" is a winning argument.

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Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Well no, it's not the crowds I like as such, and there's loads of places in cities that aren't crowded. You don't have to be in a crowded place to people-watch - when I'm in Waterstones I'm not in a crowded place, I'm just watching the more crowded place.

As far as I'm concerned, if I can see the crowd, I'm in the crowd. The fact that nobody is actually jostling my elbow isn't very relevant - they're all within reach. The only time this becomes less true is if I am at the top of a very tall building, watching crowds of people scurrying around below. At that remove, they are more like ants than people, and so don't feel like a crowd.

quote:

And not all parts of cities are noisy, crowded, dirty and full of people - I mean you couldn't say that about Highgate Cemetery could you?

There's a "full of people" quip in there just begging to be let out.

I've never been to Highgate Cemetery. It appears to basically be a city park that charges admission fees and happens to have some graves. But I'm not sure that "cities aren't all noisy and crowded because we've got this cemetery" is a winning argument.

Highgate Cemetery is just an example (it's one of the Magnificent Seven landscaped cemeteries around London). There are many spots in a city that aren't crowded or dirty or noisy. Interesting cemeteries, libraries, lesser-known parks etc etc.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
There are many spots in a city that aren't crowded or dirty or noisy. Interesting cemeteries, libraries, lesser-known parks etc etc.

I can't help thinking that this is a little like claiming that some small rural town is "diverse" because Mr. Wong and his family have opened a restaurant.

I'm sure isolated spots of peace and cleanliness are lovely, but they are isolated spots.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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These parks and cemeteries are unto real countryside as a hamburger is unto filet mignon; fine as far as they go, but no substitute.

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saysay

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quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But all those things are doable in a city! Nature exists in cities (foxes, hedgehogs, sparrowhawks etc) and people have allotments and chickens. The only thing on your list that isn't done in cities in the UK is hunting - in fact I think you're more likely to find those things in a city here.

I second LC's laughter.

You have to remember that some of us view the existence of another person within our sight or hearing as 'crowded' (us being the misanthropes that we are).

Yes, there is a certain amount of wildlife in a city, but are you ever going to randomly encounter a bear some random day? Hear the coyote howling in the middle of the night?

Also, European cities are very different from American cities (and American cities are different from one another). Our zoning laws prohibit a lot of things. I mean, I suppose theoretically you could try to keep chickens or rabbits inside your apartment but your landlord would probably kick you out. Even people who own land are frequently prohibited from keeping them outside by various ordinances. And forget about sheep or cows or goats or bees or other foodstuffs.

If you're lucky you might have a balcony and/or be able to install a windowbox and/or get the kind of light in your apartment that allows you to grow some herbs and maybe a tomato plant or something. But you just can't do the kind of gardening you can in the country.

In the country as long as you're able-bodied and willing to work you'll never starve. In the city (in the US), that's only true if the community holds periodic food drives. You have to rely so much on other people and then hope that you can afford what they're charging you just to get the basic necessities of food and water.

And some of us can't really afford the museums and theater and shops and the kind of high culture you're talking about (without taking advantage of the days when the powers that be declare that something is free and open to the public: in which case, said event is always going to be spectacularly crowded).

Mind you, I currently live in a city. But I'm not sure what I would do if I couldn't occasionally get away.

(Though what I'd like to do is win the lottery and build a small house off-grid.)

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I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
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Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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My best friend in all the world lives in a trailer park in a small town in the interior. The biggest difference I notice between his small town and my big city? MONEY. Lots and lots of money.

Yes, there are a few wealthy people that live in the country (though not usually full-time), and those working in certain rural activities can make good money. And there are people in my city who are desperately poor, even destitute, and the cost of living, especially housing, is higher. However, every time I return to the city, I'm struck by how RICH most city dwellers seem in comparison to the ordinary folks in the country.

Country folk have to do without many services and amenities, and I'm not talking about museums or galleries, I mean things like medical specialists and post-secondary education and high-speed internet and a mechanic who can fix your late-model car. If you have a disability, or special needs, country life can pose real challenges. In the country, you need a car - at least in the North American countryside. I've lived in my city for over thirty years and never owned a car.

Cities are full of rich people. And that, as they say, has made all the difference.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
Soror Magna
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# 9881

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
... Yes, there is a certain amount of wildlife in a city, but are you ever going to randomly encounter a bear some random day? ...

Yes. Bears visit the tri-cities regularly.

Edited because I can't type

[ 30. September 2014, 01:03: Message edited by: Soror Magna ]

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Country folk have to do without many services and amenities, and I'm not talking about museums or galleries, I mean things like medical specialists and post-secondary education and high-speed internet and a mechanic who can fix your late-model car.

Doing without a medical specialist? Who are you, the Queen of England, going to a medic for anything (and if you're not how are you paying for it?) Take some folk remedies; you know the doctors are paid by the drug companies to experiment on you anyway, so it's not like it's a risk you're not already taking by being alive.

And what is this late-model car of which you speak? Because we can fix your rusted-out 1990's jaloppy, but we're not going to be able to figure out (or have the after-market parts) to fix your 2014 BMW. That's just how it goes.

Posts: 2943 | From: The Wire | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Kelly Alves

Bunny with an axe
# 2522

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Hm, that's exactly what they told me in the 90's about 1970's rusted out jalopies.

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I cannot expect people to believe “
Jesus loves me, this I know” of they don’t believe “Kelly loves me, this I know.”
Kelly Alves, somewhere around 2003.

Posts: 35076 | From: Pura Californiana | Registered: Mar 2002  |  IP: Logged
Lucia

Looking for light
# 15201

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I think we probably have to recognise that "out in the country" can mean very different things in different countries! In most of Britain even in a rural area you are not that far from towns and amenities. I suspect in the USA, Canada, Australia "out in the country" can mean being much more isolated.

Also the comments about rich and poor in country and cities. In the UK people with the money to do so often move out of cities to the countryside. There are poorer people in the countryside, usually long term residents. But things like social housing are much thinner on the ground in the English countryside so people who are in need of that often move to the nearest town, and in my experience every old house in the village that I grew up in that becomes available is normally bought up by a developer, who knocks it down and replaces it with a large house that they can market for half a million pounds. Overtime this tends to significantly change the balance of richer to poorer in the population...

[ 30. September 2014, 08:00: Message edited by: Lucia ]

Posts: 1075 | From: Nigh golden stone and spires | Registered: Oct 2009  |  IP: Logged
Pomona
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# 17175

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
But all those things are doable in a city! Nature exists in cities (foxes, hedgehogs, sparrowhawks etc) and people have allotments and chickens. The only thing on your list that isn't done in cities in the UK is hunting - in fact I think you're more likely to find those things in a city here.

I second LC's laughter.

You have to remember that some of us view the existence of another person within our sight or hearing as 'crowded' (us being the misanthropes that we are).

Yes, there is a certain amount of wildlife in a city, but are you ever going to randomly encounter a bear some random day? Hear the coyote howling in the middle of the night?

Also, European cities are very different from American cities (and American cities are different from one another). Our zoning laws prohibit a lot of things. I mean, I suppose theoretically you could try to keep chickens or rabbits inside your apartment but your landlord would probably kick you out. Even people who own land are frequently prohibited from keeping them outside by various ordinances. And forget about sheep or cows or goats or bees or other foodstuffs.

If you're lucky you might have a balcony and/or be able to install a windowbox and/or get the kind of light in your apartment that allows you to grow some herbs and maybe a tomato plant or something. But you just can't do the kind of gardening you can in the country.

In the country as long as you're able-bodied and willing to work you'll never starve. In the city (in the US), that's only true if the community holds periodic food drives. You have to rely so much on other people and then hope that you can afford what they're charging you just to get the basic necessities of food and water.

And some of us can't really afford the museums and theater and shops and the kind of high culture you're talking about (without taking advantage of the days when the powers that be declare that something is free and open to the public: in which case, said event is always going to be spectacularly crowded).

Mind you, I currently live in a city. But I'm not sure what I would do if I couldn't occasionally get away.

(Though what I'd like to do is win the lottery and build a small house off-grid.)

Oh sure, I appreciate that it's different in the US - for example our museums and galleries are mostly free (you're more likely to have to pay to get into a cathedral), and all towns and cities have areas with allotments. You can live in most cities (probably not London unless you are extremely rich) and have room in the garden for some chickens - obviously nobody would keep chickens or rabbits indoors (unless it's just a pet indoor rabbit or two) because that would be cruel.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012  |  IP: Logged



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