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» Ship of Fools   »   » Oblivion   » Can we forgive with conditions attached? (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Can we forgive with conditions attached?
LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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@Circuit Rider: I agree mostly with what you said except this:
quote:
Circuit Rider: It is not a means of facilitating reconciliation.


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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

Posts: 9474 | From: Brazil / Africa | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Circuit Rider

Ship's Itinerant
# 13088

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I was quoting, and I'm still mulling. But I see your point. I agree that forgiveness is a helpful way to come about reconciliation, but the point of the speaker was that forgiveness can and should be given irrespective of reconciliation, as in the case of an abuser who may have subsequently died. Hatred toward that person can cause us to be poisoned and controlled from the grave. We may forgive whether abuser approaches for reconciliation or not, and that forgiveness can set us free from the tyranny of holding a grudge.

That said, I think forgiveness is inherent in reconciliation because that must occur before reconciliation does, else there is no true reconciliation. And it truly helps for abuser, with penitent and sincere heart, to come forward to ask forgiveness and offer restitution.

My point was that, addressing the OP, I can forgive but that does not mean everything is as before. There may be new limitations placed on the relationship because of lack of trust and credibility. I would not allow my children be in the unsupervised company of one who has abused them though I have forgiven that person for an offense and no longer hold anger and hatred in my heart.

Personally I continue to struggle with an issue where I have not yet arrived at the ability to forgive, though I want to. I am discovering it to be a process similar to grief, and the offenses to me are very great, making it difficult to forgive and to love. They have produced the darkest most depressed days of my life. I am struggling to get past that. There is little to no chance true reconciliation can be achieved, and that adds to the darkness. My constant prayer asks God to provide grace to help in this time of need, because I don't know how else to pray.

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I felt my heart strangely warmed ... and realised I had spilt hot coffee all over myself.

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LeRoc

Famous Dutch pirate
# 3216

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quote:
Circuit Rider: I agree that forgiveness is a helpful way to come about reconciliation, but the point of the speaker was that forgiveness can and should be given irrespective of reconciliation, as in the case of an abuser who may have subsequently died.
I more or less agree, although I still have reservations about the word 'should'. I guess it depends on how you interpret it. This may be a word I could say to myself in this context, but I would hesitate to say it to someone else. In my view, we can't oblige, pressure or force someone to forgive, especially when they're the victims of abuse.

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I know why God made the rhinoceros, it's because He couldn't see the rhinoceros, so He made the rhinoceros to be able to see it. (Clarice Lispector)

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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As noted above, I think it's also helpful to distinguish between forgiveness and trust. Forgiveness is about not seeking revenge, about not carrying around burdens of anger and bitterness. I would agree that is as much a benefit to the forgiver as it is to the (possibly unrepentant) forgiven. But that's not the same thing as trust. People who have proven themselves untrustworthy thru past abuse should not be trusted-- i.e. should not be put in positions where they can abuse again. You can forgive your abuser w/o making yourself vulnerable to future abuse.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged



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