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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Threatened with arrest....for writing a story? Just what the hell is going on?
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
Having read the story, has anyone actually been threatened with arrest? It reads more as Lord Bell mouthing off about how unhappy he is.
It'd be interesting to see what the Guardian's view would be if, say, she had instead written The Assassination of Michael Foot.
And I find 'Thatcher survivor' a rather ugly turn of phrase.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
I remember Cameron harrumphing because Mantel was supposed to have 'attacked' the Duchess of Cambridge. Whereas anyone who had actually read her LRB* piece would have seen any attack was on the individuality-crushing operations of the monarchy and public expectation on young women who marry into it.
This will be another tedious stooshie of the same ilk, in which the one thing guaranteed is that no one objecting will have actually read what she wrote.
*London Review of Books
[ 29. September 2014, 07:07: Message edited by: Firenze ]
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Schroedinger's cat
Ship's cool cat
# 64
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Posted
I have seen some writing that should be threatened with arrest. Or at least the author should never be allowed to write again.
This is a puff piece, someone objecting to a non-flattering piece of Thatcher, like certain branches of Islam seem to whenever someone offends their religion. It is as meaningless.
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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.
Posts: 18859 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
someone objecting to a non-flattering piece of Thatcher
Someone who happens to have been a friend of hers. Imagine someone writing a whole book about killing one of your friends - would you just shrug it off, or would you be upset?
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
I don't think I'd call for her arrest! Overreaction much?
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748
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Posted
Controversial author writes something controversial. Controversy ensues.
Yes, I'd probably be upset. I'd probably have the presence of mind not to talk about it to, and in, the press.
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Forward the New Republic
Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Assassination was a real threat to Margaret Thatcher for at least ten years so I don't think she would worry about a work of fiction.
The article is the best possibility publicity for Ms Mantel's potboiler though.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Someone who happens to have been a friend of hers. Imagine someone writing a whole book about killing one of your friends - would you just shrug it off, or would you be upset?
Upset but I doubt my opinion would get front page coverage on national papers.
A part of me hopes she will get arrested. Then I'd be happy to tell our local PC that I had similar fantasies. Probably several million other people did as well. If we all owned up and demanded to be arrested ...
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
A non-story on speed.
1. It's not an offence to offend a PR person, not even if they are a life peer.
2. It isn't any form of incitement, to write about assassination of someone who is already dead.
3. Nor is it an offence to be a not particularly good writer, or to assume that because you've won the Booker Prize twice, that makes what you write automatically especially significant. The next thing is that someone will be suggesting you should be prosecuted for splitting an infinitive.
[ 29. September 2014, 09:55: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The article is the best possibility publicity for Ms Mantel's potboiler though.
Indeed, if I was her publicist I would have phoned up a journalist friend and suggested they talk to Lord Bell (or any another patsy) for his views on the matter and write an article responding to them.
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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon
Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
Lot of fuss about nothing, on both sides. Tho' I have sometimes thought that if I had the opportunity to assassinate David Cameron or, especially, George Osborne, the things that would stop me doing so are (i) a belief that I would go to hell for it and (ii) a belief that it would be wrong to leave a woman widowed and children without a father. If I were an atheist and either Mr Cameron or Mr Osborne had no family (siblings, parents and so on too) to mourn them I would find it hard to see any reason not to pull the trigger. (I do, by the way, find this rather disturbing and I'm not very pleased to find myself feeling like this. Perhaps I need to remind myself, too, that it's a system, more than individuals, that needs taking down.)
[ 29. September 2014, 10:54: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Higgs Bosun
Shipmate
# 16582
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
someone objecting to a non-flattering piece of Thatcher
Someone who happens to have been a friend of hers. Imagine someone writing a whole book about killing one of your friends - would you just shrug it off, or would you be upset?
For the record is it not a "whole book", it is one short story in a collection. I suspect it is the publisher who chose the title of that story as the title of the collection.
Then, for those who have not actually read it, the story relates a woman who realizes that the man who comes to her flat is not a plumber or a photographer but an IRA marksman. It is hardly news that the IRA wanted to kill Thatcher. I guess the story is in the sympathy which the woman has for the aims of the gunman. However, that many had a hatred of Thatcher is also not news.
Posts: 313 | From: Near the Tidal Thames | Registered: Aug 2011
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Tubbs
Miss Congeniality
# 440
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
The article is the best possibility publicity for Ms Mantel's potboiler though.
Indeed, if I was her publicist I would have phoned up a journalist friend and suggested they talk to Lord Bell (or any another patsy) for his views on the matter and write an article responding to them.
Who knows they didn't. ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
The article looks like a piece of shameless publicity whoring on both sides.
Tubbs
[ 29. September 2014, 12:13: Message edited by: Tubbs ]
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"It's better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than open it up and remove all doubt" - Dennis Thatcher. My blog. Decide for yourself which I am
Posts: 12701 | From: Someplace strange | Registered: Jun 2001
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que sais-je
Shipmate
# 17185
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
If I were an atheist and either Mr Cameron or Mr Osborne had no family (siblings, parents and so on too) to mourn them I would find it hard to see any reason not to pull the trigger. (I do, by the way, find this rather disturbing and I'm not very pleased to find myself feeling like this. Perhaps I need to remind myself, too, that it's a system, more than individuals, that needs taking down.)
I'm an atheist. Though I might have fantasised about shooting Margaret Thatcher I wouldn't have done so. Surprisingly I don't need the fear of hell to keep me from doing such things - nor indeed do the vast majority of atheists.
Except the US, countries with higher levels of atheism tend to have lower levels of crime. I'm not suggesting a causal link, merely that the tidal wave of gratuitous crime anticipated by C19 opponents of atheism doesn't seem to have happened.
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"controversies, disputes, and argumentations, both in philosophy and in divinity, if they meet with discreet and peaceable natures, do not infringe the laws of charity" (Thomas Browne)
Posts: 794 | From: here or there | Registered: Jun 2012
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Jane R
Shipmate
# 331
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Posted
Albertus: quote:
Perhaps I need to remind myself, too, that it's a system, more than individuals, that needs taking down.
There's your third reason, then: if you kill this one there'll be another one along in a minute.
I saw a pile of copies of the book in question at our local Waterstone's on Saturday. Not being a fan of Hilary Mantel I was easily able to stifle the urge to buy one...
...well, actually I didn't feel the urge to buy one at all.
Posts: 3958 | From: Jorvik | Registered: May 2001
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Horseman Bree
Shipmate
# 5290
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Posted
que sais-je: quote:
Except the US, countries with higher levels of atheism tend to have lower levels of crime. I'm not suggesting a causal link, merely that the tidal wave of gratuitous crime anticipated by C19 opponents of atheism doesn't seem to have happened.
The US has a much lower rate of professed atheism. Until recently, it was socially unacceptable to admit to atheism, and it still is seen as political suicide to claim atheism while running for office.
But you can't say that the US has a particularly low rate of crime, esp. on the gun front. (The obvious tangent is the question as to why the "most Christian nation" has so many people who need guns? But that is for another thread, way, way down in DH)
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It's Not That Simple
Posts: 5372 | From: more herring choker than bluenose | Registered: Dec 2003
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Eliab
Shipmate
# 9153
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Horseman Bree:
But you can't say that the US has a particularly low rate of crime, esp. on the gun front. (The obvious tangent is the question as to why the "most Christian nation" has so many people who need guns? But that is for another thread, way, way down in DH)
None of crime, atheism, gun control or the USA are actually Dead Horses. Yes, please do stay on topic on this thread, but any of those tangents could be picked up on in Purg.
Eliab
Purgatory Host
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"Perhaps there is poetic beauty in the abstract ideas of justice or fairness, but I doubt if many lawyers are moved by it"
Richard Dawkins
Posts: 4619 | From: Hampton, Middlesex, UK | Registered: Mar 2005
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by que sais-je:
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
If I were an atheist and either Mr Cameron or Mr Osborne had no family (siblings, parents and so on too) to mourn them I would find it hard to see any reason not to pull the trigger. (I do, by the way, find this rather disturbing and I'm not very pleased to find myself feeling like this. Perhaps I need to remind myself, too, that it's a system, more than individuals, that needs taking down.)
I'm an atheist. Though I might have fantasised about shooting Margaret Thatcher I wouldn't have done so. Surprisingly I don't need the fear of hell to keep me from doing such things - nor indeed do the vast majority of atheists.
Not suggesting for a moment that you do. I speak for myself and for myself only.
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
In the OP link pictures, Thatcher looks quite a bit better than the author. And that's saying a lot.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Adeodatus
Shipmate
# 4992
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Posted
If you take Lord Bell's remarks at face value, he seems to be saying that bad taste should be investigated by the police.
The British police.
Noted for their good taste.
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"What is broken, repair with gold."
Posts: 9779 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003
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orfeo
Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878
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Posted
There must be a thousand Hollywood potboilers involving plots to assassinate the President. No-one appears to care very much.
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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.
Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
I have sometimes thought that if I had the opportunity to assassinate David Cameron or, especially, George Osborne, the things that would stop me doing so are (i) a belief that I would go to hell for it and (ii) a belief that it would be wrong to leave a woman widowed and children without a father. If I were an atheist and either Mr Cameron or Mr Osborne had no family (siblings, parents and so on too) to mourn them I would find it hard to see any reason not to pull the trigger.
Then I worry about you if your faith changes and you come to the stage where you no longer believe in hell.
I haven't believed in hell for many years and, no surprise to me, it hasn't turned me into a killer in thought or deed!
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356
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Posted
I worry about myself, too. I've always thought of myself as a decent and constitutional and non-violent sort of person, and the potentially violent rage that I now feel against the brand of neoliberal capitalism that is doing so much harm to our country, and towards the people who represent and steer it, is very alarming. I have never felt this way before, even in the Thatcher years. It's extremely uncomfortable.
[ 30. September 2014, 06:26: Message edited by: Albertus ]
Posts: 6498 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008
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Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119
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Posted
Am I the only one on the Ship who has never fantasised about murdering a politician with whom I disagreed, rather than just voting against them in the next election?
I realise that we are a mixed multitude, but this is starting to creep me out.
Posts: 3355 | Registered: Jan 2011
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
Am I the only one on the Ship who has never fantasised about murdering a politician with whom I disagreed, rather than just voting against them in the next election?
I realise that we are a mixed multitude, but this is starting to creep me out.
No, you're not.
That said, assassination fantasies generally strike me as being analogous to Nietzsche's assertion that it is sometimes the thought of suicide that gets us through a bad night.
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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton
Posts: 9757 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001
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Matt Black
Shipmate
# 2210
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
If you take Lord Bell's remarks at face value, he seems to be saying that bad taste should be investigated by the police.
The British police.
Noted for their good taste.
They're plain-clothes. Very plain clothes.
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"Protestant and Reformed, according to the Tradition of the ancient Catholic Church" - + John Cosin (1594-1672)
Posts: 14304 | From: Hampshire, UK | Registered: Jan 2002
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Porridge
Shipmate
# 15405
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Posted
I thought the point of plain-clothes work was to be inconspicuous. The guy on the left, maybe; but the guy on the right? No way.
Posts: 3925 | From: Upper right corner | Registered: Jan 2010
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Adeodatus:
If you take Lord Bell's remarks at face value, he seems to be saying that bad taste should be investigated by the police.
The British police.
Noted for their good taste.
Be fair! That was set in the 1970's!
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
They're also actors, not real ones.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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