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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Miscellaneous questions of a liturgical nature
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Wilfried
Shipmate
# 12277
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
When I'm the chalice bearer, I administer a gulp, whatever amount the communicant intended to consume. It means I get less drunk at the end of the service.
I missed this the last time I went through this thread. As I stated above, the tiny sip I receive on Sunday morning is as much alcohol as I consume, ever. Much more can get ugly. Your approach would be a real problem for me, and I might add, strikes me as a tad unpastoral. You can deal with your potential drunkenness in some way that doesn't involve me drinking what you don't want.
[ 19. November 2013, 19:34: Message edited by: Wilfried ]
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Choirboi
Shipmate
# 9222
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Posted
The water that is used at the Offertory, over which the priest makes the sign of the cross -- must it go down the sacrarium/piscina?
I've been at churches where the water cruet is simply left for the next mass, and I've seen others pour it into the sacrarium after each mass (which makes me wonder why they bother to put so much in the cruet in the first place, but that's another issue), because, supposedly it has been blessed and can't be used again, or reblessed, I don't know....
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Like as the hart desireth the waterbrooks, so longeth my soul after Thee, O God.
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Barefoot Friar
Ship's Shoeless Brother
# 13100
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wilfried:
quote:
Originally posted by Zach82:
When I'm the chalice bearer, I administer a gulp, whatever amount the communicant intended to consume. It means I get less drunk at the end of the service.
I missed this the last time I went through this thread. As I stated above, the tiny sip I receive on Sunday morning is as much alcohol as I consume, ever. Much more can get ugly. Your approach would be a real problem for me, and I might add, strikes me as a tad unpastoral. You can deal with your potential drunkenness in some way that doesn't involve me drinking what you don't want.
This bit of Zach's post stands out: "...whatever amount the communicant intended to consume."
If you only intend to consume a tiny bit from Zach's chalice, then do that.
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Do your little bit of good where you are; its those little bits of good put together that overwhelm the world. -- Desmond Tutu
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Choirboi:
The water that is used at the Offertory, over which the priest makes the sign of the cross -- must it go down the sacrarium/piscina?
I've been at churches where the water cruet is simply left for the next mass, and I've seen others pour it into the sacrarium after each mass (which makes me wonder why they bother to put so much in the cruet in the first place, but that's another issue), because, supposedly it has been blessed and can't be used again, or reblessed, I don't know....
Good question. I've never observed what our sacristan does with it after a Mass for which I serve. I pour what's in the lavabo bowl down one of the piscinas (the marble one below the credence table or the lockable sink in the sacristy) but leave the water and wine cruets on the sacristy counter for the sacristan. I'm guessing it goes in the piscina because it's been blessed.
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
One disposes of consecrated oils by burning them. It is customary to dispose of the old oils each year when the new oils are obtained. However, there is no abuse in continuing to use the old oils. If, however, they begin to fade during the following year, it may not be as easy or convenient to get them replenished.
I'm slightly intrigued by this statement. I know it's used in some places as a lamp fuel, but since olive oil is normally used for frying things in, and it doesn't behave like, say, petrol or paraffin (I think petrol is gasoline in the US but I'm not sure what paraffin is), does it burn? It doesn't usually in a frying pan. And chip pan fires, when cooking oil of various sorts suddenly does flash, are notoriously dangerous.
I note the suggestion of soaking cotton wool with it, and then burning the cotton wool, but that isn't the same thing.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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pererin
Shipmate
# 16956
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Posted
If you get it up to 600°F, it will burn. You'll also probably need to call the Fire Brigade...
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"They go to and fro in the evening, they grin like a dog, and run about through the city." (Psalm 59.6)
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Qoheleth.
Semi-Sagacious One
# 9265
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
One disposes of consecrated oils by burning them. It is customary to dispose of the old oils each year when the new oils are obtained. However, there is no abuse in continuing to use the old oils. If, however, they begin to fade during the following year, it may not be as easy or convenient to get them replenished.
I'm slightly intrigued by this statement. I know it's used in some places as a lamp fuel, but since olive oil is normally used for frying things in, and it doesn't behave like, say, petrol or paraffin (I think petrol is gasoline in the US but I'm not sure what paraffin is), does it burn? It doesn't usually in a frying pan. And chip pan fires, when cooking oil of various sorts suddenly does flash, are notoriously dangerous.
I note the suggestion of soaking cotton wool with it, and then burning the cotton wool, but that isn't the same thing.
It burns quite nicely when absorbed onto cotton wool, and makes an effective heart for the New Fire. Smells a bit kitchen-y, though, so a few grains of incense help.
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The Benedictine Community at Alton Abbey offers a friendly, personal service for the exclusive supply of Rosa Mystica incense.
Posts: 2532 | From: the radiator of life | Registered: Apr 2005
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
Can it be reverently consumed, instead ![[Biased]](wink.gif) ?
Good luck. Those oils are infused with all manner of things to make them fragrant. I shouldn't imagine them tasting very nice.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
Can't be worse than retsina...
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Flinging wide the gates...
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sonata3
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# 13653
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Posted
Under what circumstances - if any - would a priest wear a cope over a chasuble? Liturgy of the Palms on Palm Sunday? In procession?
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"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
A cope over a chasuble: I'm dredging up from somewhere something along the lines of "hiding the cross" - does this make sense?
Don't know the rule but do know I've never seen it.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
A cope over a chasuble? Do they wear their jeans on top of their chinos?
They are alternatives with different significance.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
Anyone else find "we do not presume"\..." prayer awkward? It comes over to me as rude. impolite to God. We were glad to go to the House of the Lord, we are halfway through the service, we are responding to God's invitation and we suddenly come over all coy. we stop worrying about what God invites us to do and act as though we want to be begged/invited again, I can see how it went down well in ye olde days when we were peasants and used to cringing socially but it is not a normal reaction to invitation now surely.
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Offeiriad
Ship's Arboriculturalist
# 14031
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
Anyone else find "we do not presume"\..." prayer awkward? It comes over to me as rude. impolite to God. We were glad to go to the House of the Lord, we are halfway through the service, we are responding to God's invitation and we suddenly come over all coy. we stop worrying about what God invites us to do and act as though we want to be begged/invited again, I can see how it went down well in ye olde days when we were peasants and used to cringing socially but it is not a normal reaction to invitation now surely.
One of the many reasons I tend to limit use of this prayer when celebrating, tbh.
In my last place we included it in our Lent version of Common Worship, but made more sense of it (imho) by reversing the order of the sections at that point. 'We do not presume...' followed the Agnus Dei, then the Invitation 'Draw near...' was said immediately afterwards.
The Prayer of Humble Access thus became a kind of sacrament-focussed confession of penitence and faith, to which the Invitation was a kind of 'declaration of assurance' - 'God knows we aren't worthy, but he still says we should draw near in faith'. This change apparently made sense to quite a lot of the congregation.
[ 01. December 2013, 10:52: Message edited by: Oferyas ]
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
It isn't called the Prayer of Humble Crumble for nothing.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
Posts: 3201 | From: An historic market town nestling in the folds of Surrey's rolling North Downs, | Registered: Sep 2011
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seasick
...over the edge
# 48
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Posted
I've always thought that the CW thing of having after the invitation to communion was daft, not least because it makes a nonsense of the practical sense of "Draw near with faith". Liturgical instructions should be able to be heeded!
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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley
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venbede
Shipmate
# 16669
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
I can see how it went down well in ye olde days when we were peasants and used to cringing socially but it is not a normal reaction to invitation now surely.
That was precisely the attitude that the introduction of the Prayer Book was meant to inculcate in the lower orders, in my opinion, (eg in the General Confession) which is why:
A When the lower orders embraced religion, it wasn't the C of E (catholic in Ireland, Methodist in the industrial areas in the C18, independency during the Civil War...)
B it isn't part of the catholic mass
C I wouldn't go to a church which used it or the BCP Communion service regularly if I had a choice.
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Man was made for joy and woe;
And when this we rightly know,
Thro' the world we safely go.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
The opposite of Humility is Presumptuousness. It is the latter attitude rather than the former that I would take to be rude.
The Prayer of Humble Access coming from the BCP, was presumably devised by Thomas Cramner, who intended this prayer to be anything but rude. IMHO the wording does have the effect of keeping us in check with regards to receiving the Sacrament duly prepared and in the right frame of mind.
It is a prayer that I have taken for granted all my life, without any thought of there being any controversy. In my younger days, I heard it used at every Communion service, but nowadays with CW in place, its use is optional in contemporary rites. Whether this prayer is said before the Prayer of Consecration, or immediately before receiving communion, does not really seem to matter.
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by sonata3:
Under what circumstances - if any - would a priest wear a cope over a chasuble? Liturgy of the Palms on Palm Sunday? In procession?
Never cope over chasuble, as has been mentioned already by others. If you're wondering about when to wear a cope at all (over alb and stole, perhaps) then in modern liturgical contexts, processions are the key. In Episcopal churches, one sometimes sees the cope worn until either the Gloria or the offertory, at which time the cope is removed, and the chasuble put on.
[ 01. December 2013, 15:55: Message edited by: Olaf ]
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
Sorry for the double...network trouble during failed edit.
In the "old" Palm Sunday rite, the priest wore a red cope for the palm liturgy, and then changed to violet after the procession, for the liturgy of the passion.
Posts: 8953 | From: Ad Midwestem | Registered: Sep 2006
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
Anyone else find "we do not presume"\..." prayer awkward? It comes over to me as rude. impolite to God. We were glad to go to the House of the Lord, we are halfway through the service, we are responding to God's invitation and we suddenly come over all coy. we stop worrying about what God invites us to do and act as though we want to be begged/invited again, I can see how it went down well in ye olde days when we were peasants and used to cringing socially but it is not a normal reaction to invitation now surely.
I can see where you're coming from, but its core spiritual emotion is very similar to,
quote:
"Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word, and I shall be healed"
which is on the previous page.
[ 01. December 2013, 19:16: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
"Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word, and I shall be healed"
does have a similar meabing but a brief concern about one's fitness to be there is a lot different to a long crawling ramble. I have some doubts about it anyway but find it less distracting from the sacrament
Posts: 98 | From: gold coast gld australia | Registered: Oct 2013
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
I think that's more a matter of the difference between C16 and C21 century preferences for how to express oneself in English. 'We do not presume' is a modernised version of a C16 prayer.
[ 01. December 2013, 21:55: Message edited by: Enoch ]
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
Oh, now I'm sorry but I find that awful. It has no cadence whatsoever and the whole thing comes across as utterly bland.
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Flinging wide the gates...
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
Oh, now I'm sorry but I find that awful. It has no cadence whatsoever and the whole thing comes across as utterly bland.
I have to agree with dj. When I see this prayer, I ask myself, "What does 'come in' mean?" Then a sudden change to past tense. What points in time are we now talking about? Then a mixture of words pointedly retained from the Prayer of Humble Access not blending well with new phrases.
I understand the desire to make the "unworthy" bit be in the past tense, as we've been forgiven and absolved already. But the text comes across as one person's poetic reflection, which is fine, but don't make us all say it that way.
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Roselyn:
Anyone else find "we do not presume"\..." prayer awkward? It comes over to me as rude. impolite to God.
I think its used wrongly these dayse because so many of those who lead or plan liturgy don't understand it. They confuse it with a Confession buit we've already said one of those at the begining(or we ought to have if we have the slightest pretence of being Anglicans). That's a category error as blatant as mistaking the Peace for a social greeting.
IN fact PoHA and Peace do the same thing, from different angles, They highlight and expose the scandalously generous reconciliation of the Gospel. In the Peace we declare our fiorgiveness for each other, we agree to accompany each other to the heavenly banquet. In the prayer of Humble access we pause at the doorstep of the eternal temple to realise that we really are not worthy to go in in our own right. If you actually read it it is a prayer of great confidence and faith.
At Communion on Sunday one of our congregation (a man of somewhat disturbed life and mind) loudly refused communion at the table, claiming he wasn't worth of it because he was too great a sinner (he's spent time at her Majesty's pleasure for some of them). Rather than just passing by him quetly the priest tried, to talk him in to recieving, a conversation that ended up invlving a number of other people as well, explaining tht none of us our worthy and that the grace of God is freely given to the unworthy. An odd situation. But it brought the thing home.
(The business about peasants is nonsense. The priest said it as well as the people. The Lord of the Manor said it. The King said it. these are liturgies of tremendoues equality - the supposes lords and masters bow down on their knees and confess their sins in the same words as everybody else. There's plenty about the CofE that functioned to reinforce early modern class structures, but this isn't part of that)
quote:
Originally posted by seasick:
I've always thought that the CW thing of having after the invitation to communion was daft, not least because it makes a nonsense of the practical sense of "Draw near with faith". Liturgical instructions should be able to be heeded!
Yes. I think its because the CW compilers mostly didn't really understand it or like it but didn't dare drop it. It worked much better in the ASB position, in the "hinge" of the service before the Peace.
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
Only if by "reads better" you mean "fits into the prejudices and preconceptions of theologically liberal anglo-catholics from upper-middle class english families who went to university in the 1950s and have a mental blind spot that makes it impossible for them to think clearly about Reformed worship or doctrine".
To everyone else it just looks like a slightly watered-down version of an old and well-known prayer, presumably for the use of people who aren't quite sure they really want to say it. The BCP version is better theology, better liturgy, and *much* better English.
Resist the Mayhewisation of liturgy!
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
Oh, now I'm sorry but I find that awful. It has no cadence whatsoever and the whole thing comes across as utterly bland.
I have to agree with dj. When I see this prayer, I ask myself, "What does 'come in' mean?" Then a sudden change to past tense. What points in time are we now talking about? Then a mixture of words pointedly retained from the Prayer of Humble Access not blending well with new phrases.
I understand the desire to make the "unworthy" bit be in the past tense, as we've been forgiven and absolved already. But the text comes across as one person's poetic reflection, which is fine, but don't make us all say it that way.
One cannot please all the people all the time. Briefly, I was seeing this modern version as something of an antidote to some of the adverse criticisms of the traditional version.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
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Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
quote:
Only if by "reads better" you mean "fits into the prejudices and preconceptions of theologically liberal anglo-catholics from upper-middle class english families who went to university in the 1950s and have a mental blind spot that makes it impossible for them to think clearly about Reformed worship or doctrine".
To everyone else it just looks like a slightly watered-down version of an old and well-known prayer, presumably for the use of people who aren't quite sure they really want to say it. The BCP version is better theology, better liturgy, and *much* better English.
Resist the Mayhewisation of liturgy!
Yes, I can see now that there are two schools of thought in the light of what I have written. I have said much the same thing in a different way in my other response in this discussion.
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Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
Using "modern" words doesn't help me because it is not the prayer itself I find annoying it's the placement. In fact the mod version has even more concepts in it than the Cranmer? one. Maybe some earlier parts of the service need to be emphasized if lots of people can get this close to the feast and need to divert this way. There will be an individual who does but this is a collective prayer and takes the emphasis off God back to us. (look at me! Look at me!)
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Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
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Posted
I would add my agreement to the thoughts of others concerning the modern version of the prayer. The traditional prayer of humble access is far superior, IMHO. But then again, I prefer Domine, non sum dignus ut intres sub tectum meum, sed tantum dic verbo et sanabitur anima mea more than anything.
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by dj_ordinaire:
quote:
Originally posted by Ecclesiastical Flip-flop:
A modern version of the Prayer of Humble Access reads better:-
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table. But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners. So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him; and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
Oh, now I'm sorry but I find that awful. It has no cadence whatsoever and the whole thing comes across as utterly bland.
I have to agree with dj. When I see this prayer, I ask myself, "What does 'come in' mean?" Then a sudden change to past tense. What points in time are we now talking about? Then a mixture of words pointedly retained from the Prayer of Humble Access not blending well with new phrases.
I understand the desire to make the "unworthy" bit be in the past tense, as we've been forgiven and absolved already. But the text comes across as one person's poetic reflection, which is fine, but don't make us all say it that way.
I beg to differ. I have some theological difficulties with the positioning of the prayer in either form so long after we've heard words of absolution and entered into rites of the eschatological Reign, but in Lent and Advent particularly I am prepared to put theology aside in the interests of a journey into the poetics of preparation. That the newer form lacks some sort of poignancy is I fear no more than a matter of taste, so:
quote:
Most merciful Lord, your love compels us to come in. Our hands were unclean, our hearts were unprepared; we were not fit even to eat the crumbs from under your table.
... a reasonable description of the human state according to the biblical witness ...
quote:
But you, Lord, are the God of our salvation, and share your bread with sinners.
a reasonable and timeless statement of the reasonable and timeless action of God-in-Christ
quote:
So cleanse and feed us with the precious body and blood of your Son, that he may live in us and we in him;
present tense because there is a sense in which the encounter with Christ will always be the moment in which eternity kisses chronology, heaven meets earth, and we taste the enormity, ineffability, immeasurability (etc) of God's salvific acts
quote:
and that we, with the whole company of Christ, may sit and eat in your Kingdom. Amen.
imagery not unknown in the scriptural witness as an expression of eschatological hope.
And so on. On the whole I think it is a darned good expression of the need to "come in" to the salvific embrace of Christ ... as good as any I know though not necessarily better than the traditional prayer of Humble Access ... which it was never designed to replace.
I use both - but only in Lent and Advent.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
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Posted
[QB] "Lord, I am not worthy to receive you, but only say the word, and I shall be healed"
and, of course, not everyone in attendance might be receiving communion and this simple statement may express their thoughts but I think the complex issues in "humble access" could be too utterly much
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
Zappa, I assume you used APBA 2nd order when you were in NT and other Oz pastures. Did you change to the later position of the general confession for Advent and Lent, as we do?
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Olaf
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# 11804
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Posted
I am looking for a lectionary book that contains the weekday eucharistic lectionary contained in TEC's Lesser Feasts and Fasts (or Holy Men, Holy Women). I seem to recall that Canada had a similar version, but I'm having trouble finding a product that provides what I seek.
If nothing turns up, I'll probably settle for a Roman Catholic weekday lectionary, which are more readily available.
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I am looking for a lectionary book that contains the weekday eucharistic lectionary contained in TEC's Lesser Feasts and Fasts (or Holy Men, Holy Women). I seem to recall that Canada had a similar version, but I'm having trouble finding a product that provides what I seek.
If nothing turns up, I'll probably settle for a Roman Catholic weekday lectionary, which are more readily available.
It's in the Anglican Church of Canada's Book of Alternative Services, downloadable as a PDF from that link.
[ 08. December 2013, 03:30: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
That seems to me to cover your first point above - the timing of humble access so long after absolution. It does not cause the same concern to me. In other that the penitential seasons, we confess and are forgiven. We then hear the lessons, and are reminded of our human weaknesses, reminded to the extent that shortly before approaching the table we have a mini-confession that the approach comes not from any virtue on our part, but from His mercy.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I am looking for a lectionary book that contains the weekday eucharistic lectionary contained in TEC's Lesser Feasts and Fasts (or Holy Men, Holy Women). I seem to recall that Canada had a similar version, but I'm having trouble finding a product that provides what I seek.
If nothing turns up, I'll probably settle for a Roman Catholic weekday lectionary, which are more readily available.
It's in the Anglican Church of Canada's Book of Alternative Services, downloadable as a PDF from that link.
Thank you! Now a tricky follow-up: is there a book with the full readings, as one would use at the ambo?
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L'organist
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# 17338
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Posted
The Bible?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Clotilde
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# 17600
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Posted
Has anyone come across any liturgical resources to commemorate Nelson Mandela - prayers, or litanies or whatever? Or does anyone have suggestions for this?
I am putting together a quiet act of worship for a house group and would really appreciate thoughts alonmg those lines.
I'm not very knowledgeable on the hymns or christian worship songs black South african christians have seen as part of the apartheid struggle, for example...
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A witness of female resistance
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
quote:
Originally posted by Oblatus:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
I am looking for a lectionary book that contains the weekday eucharistic lectionary contained in TEC's Lesser Feasts and Fasts (or Holy Men, Holy Women). I seem to recall that Canada had a similar version, but I'm having trouble finding a product that provides what I seek.
If nothing turns up, I'll probably settle for a Roman Catholic weekday lectionary, which are more readily available.
It's in the Anglican Church of Canada's Book of Alternative Services, downloadable as a PDF from that link.
Thank you! Now a tricky follow-up: is there a book with the full readings, as one would use at the ambo?
We use the Canadian RC weekday lectionary books, as their readings almost always match our weekday lectionary and use the NRSV translation.
I see that one volume is out of print but made available as a PDF.
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Olaf
Shipmate
# 11804
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The Bible?
The scripture readings from Mass are in the Bible? Well, why didn't anybody tell me this before? That does make a whole lot of sense.
quote:
Oblatus:
We use the Canadian RC weekday lectionary books, as their readings almost always match our weekday lectionary and use the NRSV translation.
I see that one volume is out of print but made available as a PDF.
Awesome! Thank you. There would be one out of print, wouldn't there? It's like people do it on purpose to mess with the stereotypically, um, particular liturgical crowd.
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gog
Shipmate
# 15615
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
Has anyone come across any liturgical resources to commemorate Nelson Mandela - prayers, or litanies or whatever? Or does anyone have suggestions for this?
Here's one I've had pass in front of me in the last few days: http://www.singingthefaithplus.org.uk/?p=9502
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Vulpior
Foxier than Thou
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The Bible?
I do like the principle of reading directly from the Bible during services. However, my experience is that people often won't read from a lectern Bible, but will use the pewsheet with the printed readings, despite them being in tiny print.
In my previous place, we would regularly mark up the lectern Bible with the locations of the readings, but only the priest, the donor (of the lectern Bible) and I would regularly use it. If you want to provide a big book with good sized print for reading from, then a lectionary is often the better choice.
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I've started blogging. I don't promise you'll find anything to interest you at uncleconrad
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
Or as we do, where the readings are printed in large font and secured with paperclips in the Bible on the lectern and (with the acclamation for the day) in the Gospel Book.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Oblatus
Shipmate
# 6278
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The Bible?
The scripture readings from Mass are in the Bible? Well, why didn't anybody tell me this before? That does make a whole lot of sense.
quote:
Oblatus:
We use the Canadian RC weekday lectionary books, as their readings almost always match our weekday lectionary and use the NRSV translation.
I see that one volume is out of print but made available as a PDF.
Awesome! Thank you. There would be one out of print, wouldn't there? It's like people do it on purpose to mess with the stereotypically, um, particular liturgical crowd.
Turns out both weekday volumes are on that site as PDFs! Glad to have that resource so I can peek at the readings ahead of a Wednesday-evening Low Mass. We use just the two readings from there; the psalm is said in unison from the BCP.
We also have a set of the same books in a much bigger hardcover lectern/pulpit edition, but most celebrants seem not to want to be handed a 20-pound book to proclaim the Gospel from. So we use the fat paperbacks. But if it's any sort of lesser feast day, we use a fairly good-looking thin binder with just the needed pages in, produced some years ago from the Rite Word discs.
[ 10. December 2013, 02:47: Message edited by: Oblatus ]
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Carys
Ship's Celticist
# 78
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Posted
When I'm serving I sometimes find that the priest moves on to the offertory prayers before I've got the lavabo ready, but they've fitted it in after the offertory prayers. Well, the starting on the next bit before the lavabo happened today except in that order there aren't any offertory prayers, so what she started on was the sursum corda, so I put down the lavabo, but she'd noticed me getting ready and so stopped after the sursum corda to do the lavabo. I felt this was odd. What do others think?
Carys
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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
You know when I sit and when I rise
Posts: 6896 | From: Bryste mwy na thebyg | Registered: May 2001
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