|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Virtual worship - thoughts and comments
|
Clotilde
Shipmate
# 17600
|
Posted
quote:
An avatar can receive the bread and wine of the Eucharist within the logic of the virtual world and it will still be a means of grace, since God is present in a virtual world in a way that is suitable for its inhabitants. We may expect that the grace received by the avatar will be shared in some way by the person behind the avatar, because the person in our everyday world has a complex relationship with his or her persona.
Thats a quotation of a few years back of Revd Professor Paul Fiddes of Oxford University.
What do you think? It is a new area to me and I'd be interested in hearing more views, and especially anyone's experience of 'virtual worship.' It seems so alien to my own experience, but maybe there is something in it.
I don't have an 'avatar' - maybe I need one to receive a little more grace ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
(I guess this topic may have been discussed before, but I post in the hope of having a fresh discussion / reading thoughts and experiences...)
--------------------
A witness of female resistance
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
|
Posted
I have often thought it was clever of God to incorporate eating and drinking into the Eucharist. It prevents us having a merely "spiritual" experience for long without coming to grips with our bodily reality. How would virtual be the same? Might be OK but NOT the same!
Posts: 98 | From: gold coast gld australia | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Clotilde
Shipmate
# 17600
|
Posted
I was thinking today that maybe here, on Ship of Fools, its like a virtual church. I say 'like'. People can have avatars. They can seek prayer from other 'avatars' - they can talk about worship, or like at coffee time, talk about anything.
But we don't receive sacraments here...
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Jengie jon
Semper Reformanda
# 273
|
Posted
I am going to say two things:
Firstly ship of fools is NOT a virtual church. There are a number of reasons for this including the lack of provision of regular worship in any form. The lack of adherence to the Christian faith as part of membership criteria and several more obscure organizational ones, not least Simon owns the ship! This is not to deny that there is a community here or that there is a general Christian ethos.
Secondly there are attempts to create churches on the internet. This is where Church of Fools now St Pixel's originated online. There have also been other attempts such as I-Church (there are shipmates involved in that as well) and Virtual Church, Web Church. In some ways RE: Jesus is more church-like although they seem no longer to have the discussion boards and community aspect.
So is Ship of Fools a church? No
Does Ship of fools have aspects of church? Yes
Can there be a virtual online churches? The jury is out but there are people attempting it, just not here.
Jengie
--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge
Back to my blog
Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
|
Posted
I agree the Ship is not a virtual church. It is
more nearly a virtual bull session in which individuals of divers types gather over tea/beer/wine to argue and commiserate.
If we were in Heaven, we could debate what (virtual) beverages and snacks should be served.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clotilde:
quote:
An avatar can receive the bread and wine of the Eucharist within the logic of the virtual world and it will still be a means of grace, since God is present in a virtual world in a way that is suitable for its inhabitants. We may expect that the grace received by the avatar will be shared in some way by the person behind the avatar, because the person in our everyday world has a complex relationship with his or her persona.
Thats a quotation of a few years back of Revd Professor Paul Fiddes of Oxford University.
What do you think? It is a new area to me and I'd be interested in hearing more views, and especially anyone's experience of 'virtual worship.' It seems so alien to my own experience, but maybe there is something in it.
I don't have an 'avatar' - maybe I need one to receive a little more grace
(I guess this topic may have been discussed before, but I post in the hope of having a fresh discussion / reading thoughts and experiences...)
I'm one of the shipmates involved in online church - it covers quite a wide area now including groups on Facebook and other social media, groups with their own websites, groups which meet in virtual worlds such as Second Life, and groups which live stream worship on the internet and also meet in local groups. It's a massive field in fact, and if you want to know about it probably the best thing you could do is dip your toe in the water and go and look at a few things and see how it strikes you.
The issue of online sacraments is complicated because of the fact that different churches take different views on sacraments and people generally bring different expectations to it. I know of people who are conducting online communions but I don't think you'll find it's part of any official liturgical provision for any mainstream church. There have been quite a few discussions about this - including one on here not that long ago - and if you google* a phrase like 'online communion' or 'online sacraments' you should be able to find a range of views. Prof Fiddes whom you quote above is talking about virtual worlds in which you are represented on screen by an avatar which you move around within the world, and seems to posit that an avatar can in some way transmit grace received from an online communion back to the person controlling it.
I was asked to write an overview of online church a while back for the Fresh Expressions website, you can find that here.
*Other search engines are available
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Roselyn
Shipmate
# 17859
|
Posted
If you have a virtual sacrament with virtual wafers and water, does this indicate a virtual God, virtual evil to renounce, virtual sins and a virtual god?? can provide virtual grace to an avatar but can it provide salvation for a human? What is the difference between virtual and Sunday Assembly non-religios church?
Posts: 98 | From: gold coast gld australia | Registered: Oct 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Arrietty
Ship's borrower
# 45
|
Posted
We don't do online communion because it would tend to be divisive, which is not the point of communion.
However, it always strikes me as odd when people draw a definite line between what is 'virtual' and what is 'real' - especially when talking about it online. Is this a 'virtual' conversation between 'virtual' people? Or a real conversation taking place through the medium of the internet rather than the medium of a phone line, or pen and paper, or air?
--------------------
i-church
Online Mission and Ministry
Posts: 6634 | From: Coventry, UK | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arrietty:
... Is this a 'virtual' conversation between 'virtual' people? Or a real conversation taking place through the medium of the internet rather than the medium of a phone line, or pen and paper, or air?
To me, definitely the latter. Using an alias means we don't need to give too much of ourselves away, but there are ordinary social situations to which that also applies.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
Worship is a physical act done in conjunction with other physical beings in a physical space. As Screwtape says, "They are always forgetting what you must ever remember, that they are animals, and what they do with their bodies affects their souls." As Paul says, "Do not forsake the gathering of yourselves together, as some have done." Worship is about more than exchanging ideas and words. It is about being the body of Christ together. And the thing about a body is that it is a physical reality, not just an intellectual one.
--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Clotilde
Shipmate
# 17600
|
Posted
I read recently something which went like this - sorry I don't recall the source.
A group of christians isolated in Syria connected with fellow Christians in another part of the world via skype and watched a celebration of Mass (or maybe orthodox liturgy) not sure what precisely. The Syrian christians got bread and wine and prayed and held it near the screen.
They then received the bread and wine.
Did they 'virtually' receive? Maybe we shouldn't worry to much! It seemed a commendable act in a difficult setting.
Posts: 159 | From: A man's world | Registered: Mar 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Printer-friendly view
