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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Jehovah
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jengie Jon:
I am quite sure there was a time when Jehovah was a popular use. It is not just Guide me O thou Great Jehovah but
- Jehovah's Perfect Law
- Before Jehovah's awful throne
- Like a River Glorious with its chorus: "Stayed upon Jehovah, hearts are fully blest"
- Hallelujah Praise Jehovah
Now most have dropped from common use, and I think the use of "Jehovah" is part of it, the same way you tend not to get hymns with "Ebenezer" (yes they do exist) and "Zion" and "Salem" (short for Jerusalem). Given also that quite a few of these are actually metrical psalm I suspect that the requirements of meter had something to do with the original use.
I think I am against the removal of "Jehovah" on the whole. On the grounds they are pretty rarely used these days (except "O Guide me "), and there is a good chance it will render, the already mangled, completely incomprehensible.
Jengie
I've noticed that it appears more often in worship songs, or at least a certain type of worship song.
We might also note that in Rastafarianism the shortened form of Jehovah - Jah - is ubiquitous. The use of Jah is also used by Christians, due partly to the influence of reggae music.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
We just got told by Jehovah people, that Jesus was not killed in a "square" bit of a tree, but just the bit straight up and He was pinned in with his hands high up. We always believe that it is the one that many were killed in that had the bits above and across. What is "real"?
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
We just got told by Jehovah people, that Jesus was not killed in a "square" bit of a tree, but just the bit straight up and He was pinned in with his hands high up. We always believe that it is the one that many were killed in that had the bits above and across. What is "real"?
Roman crucifixion was done on T-shape crosses afaik. Not sure about the bit above.
Jehovahs Witnesses use a different Bible FYI.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
The difference of the JWs translation is often greatly exaggerated. It's mostly a pretty straightforward updating of the mainstream AV/RV/RSV tradition, a bit oldfashioned, with some of the Trinitarian prooftexts translated differently. Some in ways that would have some scholarly support.
It's easy to find websites listing the bad bits of the translation from an orthodox Christian point of view. To be honest there aren't many more of them than there are dubious bits of OT readings in the NEB, or deliberately sexisms in the NIV (The NIV NT is significantly less gender neutral than the AV. Or the original Greek. It arbitrarily and unnecessarily introduces words like "he", "him", and "man" where there is no textual warrant for it)
As far as I know, which isn't that far as I have never really studied it, the New World Translation has two really big bugbears. The worst one seems to be the way it turns talk of the Spirit of God into an impersonal force rather than a person.
And then there is their obsession with the idea that the Cross had no crossbar. I have no idea why they care about that so much but they do. If you look up "cross" in a JW Bible Dictionary (I did, last week) it cross references to "torture stake". (The other entries I looked up all semed quite OK to me)
As far as I know there is evidence that Romans crucified people on both T-shaped and +-shaped crosses, and possibly X-shaped and single stakes as well. And there is no evidence as to which one Jesus was killed on in the New Testament, but a strong and early tradition that it was cross-shaped (though not unanimous I think, there are some early pictures of crucifixion on a T-cross) I don't see why it really matters and I don't know why the JWs do think its so important.
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38
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Posted
I think the business about the cross is because the koine Greek for cross is stauros, which means a stake. The Latin is crux (= cross) and since it was the Romans who did the crucifying I think they can be counted as reliable in the matter.
The usual reason given for the Greek word is that regular places of execution would have had the uprights fixed in the ground - which makes sense if you think about it. Hard-baked earth would be very resistant to regular excavation and give support to a heavy object like a cross. You would have to carry the crossbeam, but it would mean once dead you could be brought down rapidly, and the next unfortunate crucified. I only pass this one on - I can't see what difference it makes either way to be honest.
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Anglo-Cthulhic
Posts: 4857 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
Interestingly some of the more anti-orthodox-Christianity Messianics* I know also refer to the cross as the 'torture stake' and view the cross as a Constantinian/RCC invention. No idea why other than to discredit the RCC (most Messianics I know are very anti-Catholic).
*not from a Jewish background, these are gentile Messianics
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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daisymay
St Elmo's Fire
# 1480
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Posted
They still believe that Jesus saved us and loves us. But they don't like the tree with the two bits of it, up and across.
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London
Flickr fotos
Posts: 11224 | From: London - originally Dundee, Blairgowrie etc... | Registered: Oct 2001
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Spike
Mostly Harmless
# 36
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
They still believe that Jesus saved us and loves us.
Maybe, but they have a pretty strange view of exactly how many are going to Heaven.
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"May you get to heaven before the devil knows you're dead" - Irish blessing
Posts: 12860 | From: The Valley of Crocuses | Registered: May 2001
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
They still believe that Jesus saved us and loves us.
Maybe, but they have a pretty strange view of exactly how many are going to Heaven.
Yes, but some of that is the rather Biblically defensible notion that the vast majority aren't destined for the Temple worship in the eternal presence of God in heaven but for the resurrection in the new Earth.
(why am I defending the JWs so much?)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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ken
Ship's Roundhead
# 2460
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Spike:
quote:
Originally posted by daisymay:
They still believe that Jesus saved us and loves us.
Maybe, but they have a pretty strange view of exactly how many are going to Heaven.
Yes, but some of that is the rather Biblically defensible notion that the vast majority aren't destined for the Temple worship in the eternal presence of God in heaven but for the resurrection in the new Earth.
(why am I defending the JWs so much?)
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Ken
L’amor che move il sole e l’altre stelle.
Posts: 39579 | From: London | Registered: Mar 2002
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Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Interestingly some of the more anti-orthodox-Christianity Messianics* I know also refer to the cross as the 'torture stake' and view the cross as a Constantinian/RCC invention. No idea why other than to discredit the RCC (most Messianics I know are very anti-Catholic).
*not from a Jewish background, these are gentile Messianics
Are they Messianics or Sacred Namers? The latter get very exercised about Jesus' name, and maintain that he should be called Yeshua because Jesus is not "right" : "The Hebrew language doesn't even have a J," they point out.
Of course, they continue to refer to Joseph, Mary, James and other NT personages by the Anglicized versions of the Hellenized versions of their Hebrew or Aramaic names...
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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:
quote:
Originally posted by Jade Constable:
Interestingly some of the more anti-orthodox-Christianity Messianics* I know also refer to the cross as the 'torture stake' and view the cross as a Constantinian/RCC invention. No idea why other than to discredit the RCC (most Messianics I know are very anti-Catholic).
*not from a Jewish background, these are gentile Messianics
Are they Messianics or Sacred Namers? The latter get very exercised about Jesus' name, and maintain that he should be called Yeshua because Jesus is not "right" : "The Hebrew language doesn't even have a J," they point out.
Of course, they continue to refer to Joseph, Mary, James and other NT personages by the Anglicized versions of the Hellenized versions of their Hebrew or Aramaic names...
Messianics (and use Hebrew/Aramaic names for everyone in the Bible). Only celebrate OT festivals, no Christmas/Easter, keep to OT food laws etc.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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