|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: The Annual Ordinary Time versus Time after Epiphany Battle
|
Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
|
Posted
After Evensong today in my esteemed and most noble institution, I had a conversation with fellow ordinands regarding the appropriateness of using white for the current liturgical season. My argument is that per the Liturgical Movement and Renewal, there is no such thing as an "Epiphany Season." We are in Ordinary Time and as such the proper color in church is green.
My esteemed and most dignified interlocutors argued that Tradition dictated that the Incarnational Season lasted until Candlemas and that white was a suitable color.
Is there a debate in other liturgical quarters? I know the CofE allows for both so I'm interested especially in how my fellow Anglicans in the UK address this issue.
--------------------
It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
fabula rasa
Shipmate
# 11436
|
Posted
Well, yes, but please note that what you've shown is the episcopal version--priests will need to omit the headwear.
Posts: 465 | From: scepter'd isle | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ecclesiastical Flip-flop
Shipmate
# 10745
|
Posted
One good point for keeping Christmastide until 2nd February, makes it 40 days since 25 December.
Of course, the Church Kalendar is riddled with different periods of 40 days, throughout the entire year.
--------------------
Joyeuses Pâques! Frohe Ostern! Buona Pasqua! ¡Felices Pascuas! Happy Easter!
Posts: 1946 | From: Surrey UK | Registered: Dec 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
|
Posted
If a Canadian might be permitted to offer a perspective, our Januarys are generally so horrific, only the most uncharitable would deny us the occasion to have Candlemas to which we might look forward. The Ordinary time notion, while perhaps suitable for Mediterranean countries, needs to be set aside. Would it not be more useful for parishioners to focus on the series of incarnational mysteries from Christmas to Candlemas?
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
The term Ordinary Time is a mistranslation of what the current Roman Missal calls Tempus per Annum, which literally means time of the year. The word ordinary was really intended in the sense of ordinal, i.e., order, sequence, etc. I was hoping that the mistranslation would be corrected in the revised English translation of the missal promulgated two years ago. It didn't even need to be ordinal, but something that denotes sequence or time of year would have been better. Ordinary in English is a different concept not contained in the original Latin.) Several titles of days were retranslated to more accurately reflect their Latin original, but Ordinary Time did not make the cut. But then again, my parish uses the old kalendar and this is Epiphany season, anyway! ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
dj_ordinaire
Host
# 4643
|
Posted
I find it needlessly baffling to switch into green for a short period, then out of it, then back into again for a much longer period (by which time everyone has lost count anyway). Make Christmas last until Candlemass, then have a pre-Lenten/Septuagesimatide season if needed, and keep 'Ordinary Time' for the Sundays as reckoned from Trinity. Perfectly straightforward...
--------------------
Flinging wide the gates...
Posts: 10335 | From: Hanging in the balance of the reality of man | Registered: Jun 2003
| IP: Logged
|
|
Fr Weber
Shipmate
# 13472
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
After Evensong today in my esteemed and most noble institution, I had a conversation with fellow ordinands regarding the appropriateness of using white for the current liturgical season. My argument is that per the Liturgical Movement and Renewal, there is no such thing as an "Epiphany Season." We are in Ordinary Time and as such the proper color in church is green.
My esteemed and most dignified interlocutors argued that Tradition dictated that the Incarnational Season lasted until Candlemas and that white was a suitable color.
Is there a debate in other liturgical quarters? I know the CofE allows for both so I'm interested especially in how my fellow Anglicans in the UK address this issue.
White through the Octave of Epiphany and on feast days where it's appropriate. Sundays after Epiphany I are green, full stop.
--------------------
"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."
--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM
Posts: 2512 | From: Oakland, CA | Registered: Feb 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Knopwood
Shipmate
# 11596
|
Posted
I don't think this is a trad/mod thing. At my shack, where it is never past 1962, we were white through the Sunday in the Octave, ending with the Octave Day (Baptism of Christ) on January 13 and switching to green after. Places I frequent which use the BAS are likewise in green now. The distinction seems to be in naming, not colour, with the exception of the Last Sunday after Epiphany, which many modern rite places will naughtily keep in white as the Sunday of the Transfiguration.
I have been told that Scottish Episcopalians keep Christmas as "40 days of unremitting joy," but I'm not sure of the provenance of this custom. The late Dr Craig - for what it's worth to A_B - insisted that the "long" incarnation cycle was of a different character than the twelve days (or indeed, I suppose, the octave of Epiphany).
Posts: 6806 | From: Tio'tia:ke | Registered: Jun 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Quam Dilecta
Shipmate
# 12541
|
Posted
In the USA, the Episcopal Church has not changed the names of seasons since 1979, when it started numbering Sundays after Pentecost rather than Trinity. The new Roman/Ecumenical system did sneak in via the lectionary, but only clergy and readers need to pay attention to the "Year B" and "Proper 17" nonsense. I am not aware of any movement to adopt the ASB's novelties here.
--------------------
Blessd are they that dwell in thy house
Posts: 406 | From: Boston, Massachusetts, USA | Registered: Apr 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
... Is there a debate in other liturgical quarters? I know the CofE allows for both so I'm interested especially in how my fellow Anglicans in the UK address this issue.
That's not quite correct. The CofE lectionary, which quite a lot of even ordinary people use for their daily readings, says,
quote:
"Appropriate liturgical colours are suggested in this booklet. They are not mandatory; traditional or local use maybe followed."
The colours are indicated by letters next to the date. Christmas and Epiphany are W for White with an optional 'Gold' for Christmas Day, Epiphany, Baptism of Christ and Candlemas. Boxing Day (St Stephen) and Holy Innocents are R, Red, for Martyrs. G, for Green starts on 3rd February and runs until Shrove Tuesday, inclusive. There is no optional green shown before the 3rd February.
There are optional whites shown for 14th February - I don't know whether that is in honour of Sts Cyril and Methodius or St Valentine - 27 February, George Herbert and 1st March St David - I'd imagine that may be more emphatic over the water. There's an optional red on 17th February for Janani Luwum.
So it's not illegal to use any colour you like. It is also never, so far as I understand it, ever illegal in England to wear cassock, surplice and black scarf all the year round and for everything. But the default colour for this period is white.
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
sonata3
Shipmate
# 13653
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by LQ:
The distinction seems to be in naming, not colour, with the exception of the Last Sunday after Epiphany, which many modern rite places will naughtily keep in white as the Sunday of the Transfiguration.
In North America, Episcopalians will celebrate the Last Sunday after Epiphany, reading the gospel of the Transfiguration (Catholics will read this Gospel on Lent II). Lutherans, however, will celebrate the same Sunday as the Feast of the Transfiguration - having no such feast on August 6. Both will presumably use white.
--------------------
"I prefer neurotic people; I like to hear rumblings beneath the surface." Stephen Sondheim
Posts: 386 | From: Between two big lakes | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
|
Posted
I note that Anglican_Brat's United Church friends over at Emmanuel College now have Green paraments out, as the United Church Calendar directs. Which is why I put the Green back out at my place after the service last week.
--------------------
NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
| IP: Logged
|
|
malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
|
Posted
Not liturgical, but in New Orleans and other places that observe Carnival season, Mardi Gras season starts on 12th Night (Epiphany), when people eat King Cakes, and ends on Fat Tuesday (Shrove Tuesday).
In New Orleans, Mardi Gras colors are purple, gold and green. Come to think of it, that color scheme has something for every one, whether one thinks it is Epiphany season, Ordinary Time, or pre-Lent season.
--------------------
God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Ceremoniar
Shipmate
# 13596
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
Not liturgical, but in New Orleans and other places that observe Carnival season, Mardi Gras season starts on 12th Night (Epiphany), when people eat King Cakes, and ends on Fat Tuesday (Shrove Tuesday).
Wow, with Shrove Tuesday not until 4 March this year, that means a two-month Mardi Gras. ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posts: 1240 | From: U.S. | Registered: Apr 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
malik3000
Shipmate
# 11437
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
quote:
Originally posted by malik3000:
Not liturgical, but in New Orleans and other places that observe Carnival season, Mardi Gras season starts on 12th Night (Epiphany), when people eat King Cakes, and ends on Fat Tuesday (Shrove Tuesday).
Wow, with Shrove Tuesday not until 4 March this year, that means a two-month Mardi Gras.
LAISSEZ LES BON TEMPS ROULEZ! (Let the good times roll!) ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
[ 10. February 2014, 12:39: Message edited by: malik3000 ]
--------------------
God = love.
Otherwise, things are not just black or white.
Posts: 3149 | From: North America | Registered: May 2006
| IP: Logged
|
|
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29
|
Posted
Well, not entirely applicable as it's not in a church, but I personally keep the Christmas candles up around my house until Feb 2nd, after which I switch to green, purple and amber/gold candle holders and candles from Pier 1 scented "ember".
--------------------
Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!
Posts: 5592 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
Signaller
Shipmate
# 17495
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
It is also never, so far as I understand it, ever illegal in England to wear cassock, surplice and black scarf all the year round and for everything.
And a good thing too.
Posts: 113 | From: Metroland | Registered: Jan 2013
| IP: Logged
|
|
Angloid
Shipmate
# 159
|
Posted
Not illegal, but a tad impractical. Especially for gardening, housework or sex.
--------------------
Brian: You're all individuals!
Crowd: We're all individuals!
Lone voice: I'm not!
Posts: 12927 | From: The Pool of Life | Registered: May 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Angloid:
Not illegal, but a tad impractical. Especially for ... sex.
If that floats your boat ... ?
--------------------
Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
