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Source: (consider it) Thread: Ascension Day?
Anglican_Brat
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For Catholics and Anglicans, and Lutherans:

1) Observing it on the Thursday or transferring it to Sunday (pros or cons of either)
2) How do you preach on the Feast? DO you see it principally as an extension of Easter or an anticipation of Pentecost? Or neither.
3) Do you remove the Paschal Candle on Ascension Day?

Other
4) For other denominations, particularly Protestant churches, do you observe Ascension Day?

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Zappa
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Fortunately we have a children's choir which meets on a Thursday. Most weeks they rehearse, once a month they sing a simple evensong. Ascension Day always receives the latter.

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seasick

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I preach on Ascension as its own thing - neither an extension of Easter (although it falls within Eastertide, of course) nor an anticipation of Pentecost. I usually preach about the reunion of our humanity with divinity - united in Christ in the incarnation and then taken into heaven in the Ascension. It's an important part of the story of salvation in its own right.

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We believe there is, and always was, in every Christian Church, ... an outward priesthood, ordained by Jesus Christ, and an outward sacrifice offered therein. - John Wesley

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shamwari
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This is one Methodist who will observe Ascension on Sunday
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Ad Orientem
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Thursday, definitely Thursday. Christ ascended forty days after the Resurrection, not forty-three. Ascension Day belongs to the season of Pentecost, which begins immediately after the Easter Vigil. As for preaching, we see in the ascension the lifting up of our humanity in Christ. Christ also takes his place at the right hand of the Father where he rules his kingdom (Psalm 109: The Lord said to my Lord etc).
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Albertus
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Why would you transfer to the Sunday? Frankly, the only reason I can think of is that you can't be arsed to have a Thursday service or your people can't be arsed to turn up to one: in both cases the answer is simple- be arsed. Even if you have several churches/ chapels you can have a service on the proper day in at least one of them, can't you?

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Bishops Finger
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We have a Solemn Low Mass with Hymns and Incense on Ascension Day evening - and we always invite peeps from other parishes who may not have a service on the actual day. One year (hopefully this one!) some visitors might turn up......but usually it's the Usual Suspects (our faithful weekday congregation of 10-12).

I don't like to second-guess what Father might preach about, though!

Ian J.

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Adam.

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Like most Catholic US dioceses, we transfer to Sunday.

Given it's over a week away, I haven't started thinking about what I'm preaching yet! But, glancing over the readings, I have a few initial thoughts. Firstly, the Acts reading definitely looks forward to Pentecost, so I will too. Both the Gospel (Matthew's Great Commission) and the Acts reading stress our role as evangelizers, so I'll definitely be preaching out of that. But, we're not meant to talk more about law than grace, or more about Church than Christ, so the real question I'll start wrestling with over the next week is: What is Jesus doing? My current hunch is "Jesus empowers us, that baptized, through the Spirit, to be his witnesses."

This is also the Sunday we have adult confirmations in this half of the diocese, so after I've presided at my parish's early Mass, I'll be heading over the cathedral with our candidates. It'll be interesting to see how Bishop handles these readings in the context of confirmation.

As for the candle, that stays through Pentecost. It's still the Easter Season.

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Albertus
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But again, why transfer to Sunday? Is there any reason apart from laziness or demoralisation?
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Ad Orientem
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
But again, why transfer to Sunday? Is there any reason apart from laziness or demoralisation?

For RC's the Ascension is a day of obligation. In most countries, unfortunately, Ascension Thursday is no longer a holiday (but here in Finland it still is, luckily) so they move it to the Sunday. This is not the best solution, in my opinion. I would argue that it would be far better just to remove the obligation and serve the liturgy on the Thursday as it is meant to be.
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Albertus
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So, run a morning mass and an evening mass, and preople should be able to get to one or the other, no? But better as you say remove the obligation. And that still doesn't explain why churches who don't have Ascension Day as a day of obligation transfer it.

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Evensong
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
For Catholics and Anglicans, and Lutherans:

1) Observing it on the Thursday or transferring it to Sunday (pros or cons of either

Thursday. Dawn Eucharist. (Why dawn? No idea. Never head of it before this job)

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
2) How do you preach on the Feast? DO you see it principally as an extension of Easter or an anticipation of Pentecost? Or neither

It's both and more. I've summarised it into three colloqualisms as my audience will most likely be agnostic/atheist choral students that will be half asleep.

1) Right hand man
2) Friends in high places
3) Life after life after death.

quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
3) Do you remove the Paschal Candle on Ascension Day?

No.

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L'organist
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Observed on the Thursday.

Morning there will be the usual mother-and-toddler communion service - with cake to mark it as 'special'.

Evening full choral service including Glorious and powerful God by Stanford.

On the Sunday following we have a family service and they will get God is gone up with a merry noise by Croft.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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leo
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Benefice Sung Eucharist in the evening.

Paschal candle stays until Pentecost.

Preached thus last time.

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Fr Weber
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
For Catholics and Anglicans, and Lutherans:

1) Observing it on the Thursday or transferring it to Sunday (pros or cons of either)
2) How do you preach on the Feast? DO you see it principally as an extension of Easter or an anticipation of Pentecost? Or neither.
3) Do you remove the Paschal Candle on Ascension Day?

Other
4) For other denominations, particularly Protestant churches, do you observe Ascension Day?

1) ALWAYS observed on Thursday. Sunday After Ascension has its own propers.

2) Since it's normally a Low Mass, there's usually not a sermon, but I occasionally will give a short informal reflection on the day and the lessons.

3) It's not removed, but it is extinguished after the Gospel.

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"The Eucharist is not a play, and you're not Jesus."

--Sr Theresa Koernke, IHM

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Augustine the Aleut
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In Québec Ascension Day was a holiday for many years, giving rise to the (possibly apocryphal) description of the department store notice saying "This elevator does not rise on Ascension Day."
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Wm Dewy
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quote:
Originally posted by Fr Weber:

1) ALWAYS observed on Thursday. Sunday After Ascension has its own propers.

3) It's not removed, but it is extinguished after the Gospel.

[Overused]

I regret that around here, once part of the biretta belt, now proud to be protestant, Ascension Day is one of those holy days of inconvenience. My parish is not having a service. No parish within driving distance is having a Eucharist that I know of (I have checked the web sites and cobweb sites alike) and the local Romans have transferred it to Sunday for their own reasons.

On a separate thread discussing tribes and tribal customs I read about the multi-generational elders which determine a place’s churchmanship. Apparently, I boarded at a particularly high tide and the higher up the candle folk have since died, gone to Rome, become Orthodox, or just given up.

Change and decay in all around I see.

[ 24. May 2014, 20:54: Message edited by: Wm Dewy ]

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Olaf
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[Angel]

Ah, I remember Ascension Day... [Tear]

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Wm Dewy
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So do I. Fondly. It was a Thursday.

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"And harmoniums and barrel - organs be miserable--what shall I call 'em ? - miserable machines for such a divine thing as music!"

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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by Wm Dewy:
So do I. Fondly. It was a Thursday.

At this point, I'd even consent to taking it on the Sunday. Better that than nothing.
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Stephen
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We're keeping it on Thursday with a Choral Eucharist - Haydn's St.Joannes de Deo as the setting and Tye's 'Eternal gates lift up their heads'

It's followed by an organ recital 'L'Ascension' by Messiaen, by candlelight I am given to understand. However I can't stand Messiaen so I won't be staying behind!

[Two face]

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Best Wishes
Stephen

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georgiaboy
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We will, as usual, have a High Mass on Ascension Day and also on the Sunday following (with its own propers). We'll be singing the Peter Phillips 'Ascendit Deus' at both, don't know what the other musick will be, though one of our organists is promising/threatening Messiaen -- hope he does it!

Paschal Candle will be extinguished after the Gospel on Thursday, and removed to the baptistery after the service.

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Oblatus
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It's our feast of title, and we keep it on the Thursday. This year the bishop is coming for the formal institution of our new rector. The dean of our deanery canceled his parish's own Ascension Day evening Mass in favor of having his parishioners attend ours. It should be quite an evening!
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DangerousDeacon
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Rather strangely, we are holding it on Wednesday - please, do not roll your eyes too much! There is reasoning behind the madness.

We have a weekly clergy Eucharist on Wednesdays at 7.30 am, in a Diocese which has huge distances to cover and very varied churchmanship. If I changed it to the Thursday, I would have none of the clergy - my brothers and sisters have other regular Thursday morning / evening commitments (trying to change set schedules around here involves herding cats).

As I remind my brothers and sisters, one of the four cardinal virtues is prudence (practical wisdom) - if not on Wednesday, it will be myself, two wardens and the bloke who sleeps on the porch.

So, Wednesday morning it is, with a general invite to the Cathedral parishioners to join us.

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Japes

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After some dispute in my bit of the ecclesiastical world, an Ascension Day Eucharist will be happening on the Thursday evening, but it nearly didn't, owning to the seemingly more important fact it is Half-Term week, and most of the clergy in the informal grouping of churches who get together have children and are either going away or taking holiday.

I was sympathetic to the Half-Term bit, but then the attitude emerged it didn't matter to have a Eucharist that day as "It's not a major festival"! It's OK, Eccles regulars, I expressed my opinion fully and frankly, and the offending clergy were left in absolutely no doubt they were Wrong in that opinion. What do they teach in theological colleges these days?!

Anyway, I am now voting with my feet and going to the cathedral instead, since my organ playing services are not required as it's not at my church. It will good to be in the congregation for a change!

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Albertus
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Bloody half-term. Bloody, bloody half-term. Why is it that parents always seem to expect everything to stop because it's half-term? [brick wall]

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Stejjie
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Bloody half-term. Bloody, bloody half-term. Why is it that parents always seem to expect everything to stop because it's half-term? [brick wall]

We don't. We just would like people to understand that:

a) If the children aren't at school it's harder for us to get to the stuff, especially stuff where children would be considered a distraction/would get bored etc. unless other childcare arrangements are available (preferably something at the church).

b) Schools are cracking down hard on people taking their children on holidays during term time - quite rightly. So it means school holidays are the only times we can take a family holiday.

c) If you're the one who's supposed to be leading these services it's doubly hard: either you have to cancel the service (which will be wrong); move it (which will be wrong); find someone to look after your children (which could be tricky in half term); conduct the service with your children there (which could be OK, but you're mind will be half on keeping an eye on your children and praying desperately that they don't play up).

In all this, what I'm saying is this: us parents (and especially us clergy parents whose spouses also work) are between a rock and a hard place: we're paranoid about not letting anyone down, but we're also called to look after our children and be part of the families we believe God's put us in. That creates a huge tension that's actually difficult, if not impossible, for us to fill. And what looks like us arrogantly demanding that the Ascension Day Service not happen on Thursday because we've got to look after the children is actually us thinking "Shit, everyone's expecting me to do this service and I want to do this service, but I can't cos my wife [in my case] can't get the day off work and there's nowhere else to go that I can afford, and if I ask someone else to take them they won't be able to get to the service and...".

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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist

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Japes

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I was much, much more bothered by the attitude that Ascension Day was not a major festival than it being potentially cancelled because it was Half-term, especially as there were available clergy to take the service who had not been asked to do so.

I work the academic year, so I'm well aware of the difficulties clergy families do face about holidays. As an organist, though, I'm expected to be available for those major feasts whether they fall in the school holidays or not.

Should I start a separate thread on this, though, as some of this related stuff has been bothering me for a while, and let this thread return to Ascension Day!

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The Scrumpmeister
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
For other denominations, particularly Protestant churches, do you observe Ascension Day?

Oh yes. We'll be having an early Liturgy on Thursday. It will be the festal Liturgy of the Ascension, complete with antiphons. The troparion of the feast will replace some of the regular hymns. I'm looking forward to it. Then I have to leave for work. [Frown]

Sadly, busyness means that there'll be no Vespers the night before. Double [Frown]

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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

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Albertus
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So if having the kids around at half term is a problem, you have your Ascension Day service in the evening (like most churches I've ever been to), or even better, add a family/ parent & kids/ messy church one in the daytime.

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Baptist Trainfan
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But just why is it so important to celebrate these events on the "correct" day? All right, there is Biblical precedent for counting on from Easter to Ascension (although, even then, Easter and Passover don't necessarily coincide); I also recognise that it is important in some Christian traditions.

But does it really matter if one gets the day wrong? The same would be true of other major festivals and especially Christmas, as we have no idea of the date on which Jesus was born!

BTW I actually like the rhythm of the Liturgical Year - but shouldn't it be our Servant rather than our Master?

(I suspect that this question is likely to be shoved into DH pretty pronto!)

[ 26. May 2014, 15:39: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Japes

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Personally, I've lived my life according to the liturgical calendar for almost all of my adult life, and I like the discipline of it. Ascension Day belongs on the Thursday and if there's nothing at my own church, I will seek out a Eucharist elsewhere on that day.

I had four years where I was not able to, owing to a long commute, and I've rejoiced that a change of job this academic year has enabled me to return to that rhythm of life.

I did, during those four years, seriously considered returning to the Baptist denomination in which I grew up. I spent the summer and autumn attending my local Baptist church, and was settling, until the start of the new Liturgical Year, and we sang Christmas Carols on Advent Sunday...I fled. I just can't do it. I returned to the Anglican fold post haste, and the comfort of the regularity of the church year.

I appreciate this kind of rhythm of life doesn't work for everyone, and is not always possible, but it does work for me when I can do it.

[ 26. May 2014, 16:33: Message edited by: Japes ]

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Stejjie
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
So if having the kids around at half term is a problem, you have your Ascension Day service in the evening (like most churches I've ever been to), or even better, add a family/ parent & kids/ messy church one in the daytime.

Either of those would be ideal... but resources (especially of the people kind) would make the latter difficult.

Actually, we do celebrate Communion once a month on the evening of the fourth Thursday of the month and also on Maundy Thursday - but we're not going to have a service on Ascension Day, but will celebrate it on the the Sunday.

Which may sound perverse... but actually, the reason is that very few people will turn out for a Thursday night Communion, especially one that will fall outside of the "normal" service times. Rather than add an extra service that no one will turn up for (and I do understand the POV of those who would say you should do it anyway), I'd rather celebrate something so important with the whole church (or as much of the church as possible) there. I'd agree with Baptist Trainfan's point that probably the exact day doesn't matter so much as actually celebrating the event.

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A not particularly-alt-worshippy, fairly mainstream, mildly evangelical, vaguely post-modern-ish Baptist

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Ceremoniar
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quote:
Originally posted by Japes:
Personally, I've lived my life according to the liturgical calendar for almost all of my adult life, and I like the discipline of it. Ascension Day belongs on the Thursday and if there's nothing at my own church, I will seek out a Eucharist elsewhere on that day.

I had four years where I was not able to, owing to a long commute, and I've rejoiced that a change of job this academic year has enabled me to return to that rhythm of life.

I did, during those four years, seriously considered returning to the Baptist denomination in which I grew up. I spent the summer and autumn attending my local Baptist church, and was settling, until the start of the new Liturgical Year, and we sang Christmas Carols on Advent Sunday...I fled. I just can't do it. I returned to the Anglican fold post haste, and the comfort of the regularity of the church year.

I appreciate this kind of rhythm of life doesn't work for everyone, and is not always possible, but it does work for me when I can do it.

My feelings exactly. I have lived by the Church kalendar for my entire life. I cannot imagine living any other way.
[Votive] [Overused] [Votive]

[ 26. May 2014, 18:12: Message edited by: Ceremoniar ]

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Bishops Finger
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I agree that, in these post-Christian days, it may well make sense to concentrate on Sundays...... however, given that we have a small but faithful weekday congregation, it also makes sense for us to have a Eucharist on Ascension Day evening. As I have remarked before, we advertise this amongst our neighbouring parishes....... [Snigger]

Ian J.

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Net Spinster
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The local ELCA and Episcopal churches borrow the local university's non-denominational church (which can hold 1200) and have a joint Ascension service on Thursday evening. Joint choirs and an outsider preacher (Susan Briehl this year with one of the local Episcopal bishop, Mary Gray-Reeves, presiding [the church is right on the edge of a very fuzzy border between Episcopal dioceses]; they've had presiding bishops Jefferts Schori and Mark Hanson preaching in previous years).

I gather it is rather a pageant given the number of priests involved.

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Adam.

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quote:
Originally posted by Ceremoniar:
My feelings exactly. I have lived by the Church kalendar for my entire life. I cannot imagine living any other way.
[Votive] [Overused] [Votive]

I don't owe by allegiance to a calendar, but a Church, which happens to have a calendar. If my local ordinary, a successor to the apostles, appointed to his post by St. Peter's successor, wants me to celebrate the Ascension on a Sunday, that's what I'll gladly do.

I happen to have a personal fondness for many elements of our calendar (more the seasons than the individual feasts, but that's a personal thing), but if that ever became more important to me than the Church hierarchic (and my place in it), something would have gone badly wrong.

[ 27. May 2014, 13:13: Message edited by: Hart ]

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Ave Crux, Spes Unica!
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The Scrumpmeister
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Bloody half-term. Bloody, bloody half-term. Why is it that parents always seem to expect everything to stop because it's half-term? [brick wall]

That doesn't bother me as much as people with school connections - pupils, parents, teachers and other school staff - talking about the world in terms of the school year.

For those of us who don't work in a school, go to a school, or have children who are in school, the school year has no bearing on real life. If you want me to commit to an engagement on a certain date, then tell me the date. Don't tell me it's "the first Wednesday of half term" and expect me to have some sort of idea of when you're talking about.

My line of work has its own calendar too but I don't use it when I'm talking to people who don't work with me. Why would I do that? And why would I expect them to know when I mean?

(Walks off, muttering to self about people talking in parables).

[ 27. May 2014, 20:39: Message edited by: The Scrumpmeister ]

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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis

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Rev per Minute
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
So if having the kids around at half term is a problem, you have your Ascension Day service in the evening (like most churches I've ever been to), or even better, add a family/ parent & kids/ messy church one in the daytime.

Clergy families don't always have two parents to share childminding duties, of course. And if families go away at half term, then it doesn't matter when in the day you hold a service if the clergy aren't there.

That said, ours will be at 7.30pm on Thursday, not a normal time for a service but helped by the fact we swear in the PCC and wardens at the service. So at least they should turn up!

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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor

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Baptist Trainfan
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
Ours will be at 7.30pm on Thursday, not a normal time for a service but helped by the fact we swear in the PCC and wardens at the service. So at least they should turn up!

You did say "swear in" rather than "swear at", didn't you?
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Mama Thomas
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In TEC, it is a major day. RCs would call it a feast of obligation, but most TEC people don't know that. I'll have a Mass--someone always comes, but one day I expect to celebrate alone.

I try to sing all ten (or is it 12?) verses of A&M's "See The Conqueror" at MP and EP to the tune "in babilone." Luckily only One can hear me.

In Vanuatu, it is a public holiday, so even Presbyterians and Pentecostals will all be celebrating, and the churches will be full because school will be out and the shops and banks closed.

I sort of wish they'd make the Sunday after the Ascension an alternative day for it because our ageing population barely knows it exists.

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All hearts are open, all desires known

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Rev per Minute:
..And if families go away at half term, then it doesn't matter when in the day you hold a service if the clergy aren't there...

I suppose it depends on how important you think Ascension Day is, but half-term or no I'd be slightly surprised if clergy who think it is important enough to celebrate would be away from their churches for it- just as I would if they were away at Christmas or Easter.
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Chorister

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We have two Ascension Day services - a said Eucharist in the morning and a Choral Eucharist in the evening. There are drinks and nibbles after the evening service. The children's vestry group did their talk and craft activities on the theme of the Ascension last Sunday, as they don't have a meeting on Thursday.

Another church, which is part of our team, happens to be built on top of a steep hill. So they enjoy their very relevant Ascension Day service on Thursday, especially as any low cloud will give it an authentic atmosphere! The congregants then all go back down the hill and have lunch in the pub. Imagine holding your Ascension Day service in a church like this!

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Retired, sitting back and watching others for a change.

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Below the Lansker
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Ascension Day used to be a big day for Sunday Schools here in rural west Wales. CinW parishes would take all the children up to St David's for a service at the Cathedral. The adults would wait in the Cathedral while the parish choirs and Sunday school children and teachers would gather at the Tower at the top of the hill then process down and in for the service. Most came from tiny village churches, where the music was usually provided by a wheezy harmonium, so walking up the aisle of the Cathedral whilst the organist attacked some spectacular piece with all the stops out was quite an experience.
The Baptists would also organise singing festivals, with an afternoon rehearsal service then the big one at night, with a spectacular chapel bun-fight in between. There was a long-standing tradition that it would be on Ascension Day, even though the Baptists and other non-conformists did not make much of it, liturgically speaking. I think it was just a day when the schools accepted that any children belonging to a Sunday school (of whatever flavour) would be absent. Nowadays, I know of very few churches with functioning Sunday schools, so the tradition has died out.

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GCabot
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1. My parish observes it with solemn mass on Thursday evening.

2. We often take the opportunity to invite guest clergy to preach on Ascension Day, so it varies.

3. The Paschal Candle remains through Whitsunday.

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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Our (volunteer) organist and her husband are coming to tonight's Mass, so we're probably having a sung service (with Ims and Hincense) for the Edification of the Faithful.

There may be only a dozen or so present, but our (enormous/great barn of a) church building has an endearing way of absorbing/accommodating however many (or few) turn up, so that it never looks empty..... [Confused]

Ian J.

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Albertus
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Emptiness in a church is IME a matter of quality rather than quantity. And from what you have written about your church over the years, and my experience of similar churches, I am willing to bet that it is never empty even when there is no-one there.

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Stephen
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Our (volunteer) organist and her husband are coming to tonight's Mass, so we're probably having a sung service (with Ims and Hincense) for the Edification of the Faithful.


Ian J.

So basically just a simple Gospel service then?
[Two face]

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Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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GCabot
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quote:
Originally posted by Stejjie:
Which may sound perverse... but actually, the reason is that very few people will turn out for a Thursday night Communion, especially one that will fall outside of the "normal" service times.

I find this this is all a matter of expectation. If the rector makes clear the importance of Ascension Day and the church's culture promotes attendance, then people will attend, regardless of the inconvenience. At my parish, we have managed to fill the building on such days using these techniques, among others.

Before Holy Week, our rector actually thundered multiple times from the pulpit about how he expected everyone to be in church every single day of that week. This turned out to be quite effective.

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The child that is born unto us is more than a prophet; for this is he of whom the Savior saith: "Among them that are born of woman, there hath not risen one greater than John the Baptist."

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Pomona
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The Catholic cathedral here is transferring Ascension Day to Sunday which strikes me as odd - being a cathedral, they have daily mass and so there normally isn't any transferring because even a weekday evening mass is well-attended. Since my own church always transfers to a Sunday, I often go to mass at the cathedral on feast days and wonder why this hasn't happened for today.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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