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Source: (consider it) Thread: Ascension Day?
Forthview
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It's really quite simple,Jade.The bishops of England and Wales have decided,with the permission of the Holy See,to transfer the Ascension to the Sunday following the traditional date.Thus the Ascension is celebrated in all Catholic churches of the Roman Rite on that day.
Shhh !!,but those Catholics who follow the 1962 rite will probably,with the permission of the
bishops,celebrate Ascension on the day in the 1962 Rite.
Catholic parishes do not (normally) decide things
individually.

Here in Scotland today was the Feast of the Ascension in all Catholic churches.

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Pomona
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Is it just for the Ascension? Because I'd heard that this applied to all major feast days, but the Annunciation was celebrated on the 25th and not transferred for example.

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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]

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Jude
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This year there was no Ascension Day service at our local C of E church, which usually holds an evening Eucharist on the Thursday itself, because the vicar has been on holiday and was celebrating something else on Thursday, and no alternative provisions were made. The church on the far side of town, which I sometimes attend, used to have an Ascension Day service, but gave up because hardly anyone attended and they currently have no vicar. In past years I have gone to our Cathedral for midday communion on Ascension Day if no local church has a service, but this time I was unable to because of other daytime commitments.

This has been disappointing to say the least, as I believe Ascension Day is one of the major festivsls and want to celebrate it on the appointed day, i.e. Thursday. I find it sad that even clergy do not regard it as important enough to take precedence over personal concerns.

I believe that in the Ascension Jesus took humanity into the Godhead - now isn't that worth celebrating?

So

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Enoch
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Perhaps somebody can tell me the answer to this who actually knows, but I don't think in the CofE we're allowed to move Ascension Day to any other day than its normal one.

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L'organist
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We had a more than respectable number.

Could be that the PP's stern announcement on the last two Sundays about Ascension being one of the major feasts and therefore obligatory - and saying that all confirmation candidates and their parents had to be there - had something to do with it.

Full choir too and the populace were suitably stunned by Glorious and Powerful God. Next year maybe Finzi? [Snigger]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Bishops Finger
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18 turned up to our simple Gospel service (LOL, Stephen), which turned into a full Sung Mass - and was sung very well, I might add.

Ian J.

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Zappa
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We had twenty five in our small satellite church, at which the children's choir led us in a simple sung contemporary evensong. They weren't perfect, but the overall effect was sheer heaven.

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Albertus
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quote:
Originally posted by Jude:
This year there was no Ascension Day service at our local C of E church, which usually holds an evening Eucharist on the Thursday itself, because the vicar has been on holiday and was celebrating something else on Thursday, and no alternative provisions were made. The church on the far side of town, which I sometimes attend, used to have an Ascension Day service, but gave up because hardly anyone attended and they currently have no vicar. In past years I have gone to our Cathedral for midday communion on Ascension Day if no local church has a service, but this time I was unable to because of other daytime commitments.

This has been disappointing to say the least, as I believe Ascension Day is one of the major festivsls and want to celebrate it on the appointed day, i.e. Thursday. I find it sad that even clergy do not regard it as important enough to take precedence over personal concerns.

I believe that in the Ascension Jesus took humanity into the Godhead - now isn't that worth celebrating?

So

Four parishes and no Ascension Day service between them? What are your clergy doing to earn their stipends? What are your people doing?

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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

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Rev per Minute
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Four parishes and no Ascension Day service between them? What are your clergy doing to earn their stipends? What are your people doing?

Now, now, Albertus, you should know that one does not earn one's stipend, one is given it irrespective of one's workload or output.

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"Allons-y!" "Geronimo!" "Oh, for God's sake!" The Day of the Doctor

At the end of the day, we face our Maker alongside Jesus. RIP ken

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Albertus
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Yes, of course, that occurred to me just after the edit window had closed! Let us say, then, 'claim their stipends with a straight face'.

[ 30. May 2014, 12:47: Message edited by: Albertus ]

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Bishops Finger
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Our Priest-in-Charge is a non-stipendiary/self-supporting minister. We tell him that he's worth every penny...... [Devil]

.....but we sometimes think he actually does more work than some stipendiaries...... [Eek!]

Ian J.

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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L'organist
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Jude

I think its pretty safe to assume that the four parishes are all in the same Deanery; you've a fair chance one of the incumbents is the Rural Dean, but you may want to check before you do the obvious, which is

Write to the Archdeacon and draw to his attention the fact that a major feast was not marked - and copy the letter to the Bishop.

At the very least it shows appalling lack of co-ordination between clergy in one deanery; at worst it is evidence of flagrant ignorance of duties and/or refusal to fulfil obligations.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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leo
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A letter to the hierarchy will make someone very unpopular - why not have a word/write a letter to the clergy first?

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My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Adam.

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
A letter to the hierarchy will make someone very unpopular - why not have a word/write a letter to the clergy first?

Not just good advice, but a Dominical Mandate:

quote:

“If your brother sins, go and show him his fault when the two of you are alone. If he listens to you, you have regained your brother. But if he does not listen, take one or two others with you, so that at the testimony of two or three witnesses every matter may be established. If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to the church. If he refuses to listen to the church, treat him like a Gentile or a tax collector. (Matt 18:15-17)

Also, recall how Jesus treated tax collectors, and how his final words to us tell us to treat Gentiles.

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Zappa
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While I agree with the concern about the lack of liturgical observation of a major feast, I think I rise (predictably [Roll Eyes] ) to defend clergy.

The shrinkage in liturgical observation and emphasis is a blight on our church(es), but I know very few clergy who don't work reasonably hard to fit into the stipend God's people allow them. Somehow though they have been allowed to lose sight of the values of liturgy and worship. Ascension day being a Thursday of course it will always be a victim. I am fortunate, having a cathedral ... but in the hurly burly of life ...

The hurly burly of life is the problem. I would imaging the clergy were trapped in that endless cycle of meetings, newsletter deadlines, sermon preparation, hopefully visiting the sick ... with the slowly cultural degradation of High Days and Holy Days their focus has been marred ... it needs rejigging, absolutely, but please: no blame games.

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daronmedway
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We had a non-Eucharistic service of praise and prayer to mark the beginning of 10 unbroken days of prayer (24 hours per day) between Ascension and Pentecost. I would have preached on Ephesians 1 and 2 but I ended up preaching on a Psalm instead.
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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Jude:
In past years I have gone to our Cathedral for midday communion on Ascension Day if no local church has a service, but this time I was unable to because of other daytime commitments.

This has been disappointing to say the least, as I believe Ascension Day is one of the major festivsls and want to celebrate it on the appointed day, i.e. Thursday. I find it sad that even clergy do not regard it as important enough to take precedence over personal concerns.

I believe that in the Ascension Jesus took humanity into the Godhead - now isn't that worth celebrating?

So

It is very much worth celebrating, but what were your midday commitments which were such as to take precedence over your attendance? One of the churches you refer to has no incumbent - it's not surprising that there was no celebration there. The rector at your local church had another matter to attend to - but from the sound if it, that was within his usual duties. You don't say precisely. But there was a service at your cathedral, and you chose not go to that.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
... it needs rejigging, absolutely, but please: no blame games.

Hear, hear. I'll not be popular, but I'll say it anyway: it should just be transferred to Easter 7, permanently.

The "new" lectionary stresses Sunday of the Passion simply because it is assumed that enough will not be present on Good Friday. Ascension should be given the same treatment. Sure, allow for it to be observed on Thursday, but demand it be observed on Sunday if the Thursday option was not utilized.

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Albertus
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Yup. Put Christmas Day on a Sunday too, why don't you? [Roll Eyes]
Or better still, just roll up everything onto four or five Sundays a year, all conveniently chosen not to coincide with school and public holidays, likely sunny weather, major sporting events, and so on- then nobody, clergy or laity, has to be arsed to do anything very much...

[ 31. May 2014, 11:15: Message edited by: Albertus ]

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Jude
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Gee D - Starting by defending my actions, or lack of, my other commitments involved family. Our cathedral is forty minutes away by rail with two trains per hour, close together. So a trip into the city for a short communion service would become a mid-morning start, lunch afterwards and return mid-afternoon.

Although there are four Anglican churches here, there are at present only two incumbents. They certainly "earn their keep" with the amount of work they do, not only in the parishes but in other roles in the diocese. However, the fact that, the vicar being away, no arrangements were made to cover the Ascension Day service is something I feel was very remiss.

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Albertus
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And we come back to the question- what else was the vicar celebrating, that took precedence over Ascension Day? True, Oakapple Day fell on Ascension this year, but I think it highly unlikely he would have been celebrating that and even if he was it wouldn't outrank a major feast!
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L'organist
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I'm with you, Albertus.

The Ascension is a major feast and so the first priority of clergy should be to celebrate that: meetings and other things must give way to marking the feast.

As for meetings being more important than a celebration of the Eucharist (at whatever time of day) - that attitude may be part of the reason why the pews are so empty, because if the clergy can't be arsed to fulfil obligations why should the laity.

But then I recall a sometime fixture of General Synod some years ago (went from parish in the south to an archdeaconry oop north) who, because it fell on his day off, made no provision for his parish's patronal festival to be marked. Fortunately for us the neighbouring parish (3 churches, at that time only 2 clergy) was marking St Peter's feast so we all trooped down the hill.

IMO all clergy should do their utmost to ensure that (a) they say Morning and Evening prayer in their church at an advertised time, and (b) ensure that major feasts are marked on the day with at least an early morning eucharist - regardless of days off, etc.

In my own place we had full choir (20 adults) plus organist, plus all 9 confirmation candidates and their parents, plus c 40 congregation at the evening service; in the morning there were 8 parents with 15 children at the playgroup service.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Ceremoniar
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quote:
Originally posted by Forthview:
It's really quite simple,Jade.The bishops of England and Wales have decided,with the permission of the Holy See,to transfer the Ascension to the Sunday following the traditional date.Thus the Ascension is celebrated in all Catholic churches of the Roman Rite on that day.
Shhh !!,but those Catholics who follow the 1962 rite will probably,with the permission of the
bishops,celebrate Ascension on the day in the 1962 Rite.
Catholic parishes do not (normally) decide things
individually.

Here in Scotland today was the Feast of the Ascension in all Catholic churches.

The 1962 missal and kalendar contain a number of differences from the current missal and kalendar. When the Extraordinary Form is followed, its kalendar is used. Therefore, no special permission is needed from bishops to observe Ascension Thursday. The same goes for Septuagesima, Christ the King, Sundays after Epiphany and Pentecost, certain saints' days, etc.

In the US, the situation is even murkier. The bishops' conference, sensitive to charges that they were getting wimpy about observing holy days of obligation, left it up to the bishops of each province to decide. The result is that all of the dioceses in the states of Maine, Vermont, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Nebraska observe Ascension Thursday, while the dioceses in the other forty states observe Ascension Sunday. Makes for great confusion, especially when people travel. [brick wall]

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Baptist Trainfan
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As I've said upthread, I'm a Nonconformist who likes to follow the Church Year although rather less rigorously than others on this thread.

Now, Jade told us that "the vicar had been on holiday and was celebrating something else on Thursday" but didn't tell us what that "something else" was, and indeed may not have known.

Since then we have been very critical of this poor person who, in the face of it, does seem to have been a bit remiss in their duties, at least within the Anglican tradition if not mine (we don't usually have Ascension Day services).

But none of us here is actually in full possession of the facts - so perhaps said person was tied up with something that they quite genuinely could not get out of. Can't we at least give them the benefit of the doubt?

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Gramps49
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Since the 8th of June is Pentecost Sunday this year, it is best not to move Ascension to that Sunday. Some Lutherans may use 1 June for Ascension, but I think the majority will just skip it.
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Olaf
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quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
Yup. Put Christmas Day on a Sunday too, why don't you? [Roll Eyes]
Or better still, just roll up everything onto four or five Sundays a year, all conveniently chosen not to coincide with school and public holidays, likely sunny weather, major sporting events, and so on- then nobody, clergy or laity, has to be arsed to do anything very much...

Heh...I've long given up expecting clergy to do their job.

I searched the Lutheran and Episcopal churches in a 50-mile area to find an Ascension Day (Thursday) liturgy. How many did I find? Two, both Episcopal. One was a low mass, and the other a pontifical high mass that was a bit too far and a bit too late for me to travel on a work night. Face facts, we've lost.

(My denom's calendar already allows transferral to 7 Easter, which is always the Sunday after Ascension, and should take the Ascension preface even if observed as 7 Easter anyway.)

[ 31. May 2014, 23:04: Message edited by: Olaf ]

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Gee D
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quote:
Originally posted by Jude:
Gee D - Starting by defending my actions, or lack of, my other commitments involved family. Our cathedral is forty minutes away by rail with two trains per hour, close together. So a trip into the city for a short communion service would become a mid-morning start, lunch afterwards and return mid-afternoon.

Although there are four Anglican churches here, there are at present only two incumbents. They certainly "earn their keep" with the amount of work they do, not only in the parishes but in other roles in the diocese. However, the fact that, the vicar being away, no arrangements were made to cover the Ascension Day service is something I feel was very remiss.

Lucky you to have a train service to the cathedral city with only 40 minutes to travel. Had I not been out of Sydney to work, the nearest cathedral city to have offered a service would have been a 2 hours plus train trip from home (90 minutes by car), with a change necessary. AS it was, I was able to attend a 6pm service not far from where I was staying.

What I was saying is that you gave priority to your commitments but expected others to give up their commitments to provide a service at a time suitable to you. As congregations shrink over the next decade, there will be fewer and fewer local parishes. The consequence will be that we may well have to travel a bit further to find any service at all, even on Sunday.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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shamwari
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Celebrated Ascension today!

And sang " And didst thou love the race that loved not thee...."

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Stephen
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
As I've said upthread, I'm a Nonconformist who likes to follow the Church Year although rather less rigorously than others on this thread.

Now, Jade told us that "the vicar had been on holiday and was celebrating something else on Thursday" but didn't tell us what that "something else" was, and indeed may not have known.

Since then we have been very critical of this poor person who, in the face of it, does seem to have been a bit remiss in their duties, at least within the Anglican tradition if not mine (we don't usually have Ascension Day services).

But none of us here is actually in full possession of the facts - so perhaps said person was tied up with something that they quite genuinely could not get out of. Can't we at least give them the benefit of the doubt?

I think I'd be inclined to agree with most of this - we've no idea of the circumstances and I don't particularly want to rush to judgment - there could be all sorts of reasons
Having said that, there does seem something not quite right about a place with four Anglican churches not having one celebration on an important day - and it would have to be in the evening as Ascension Day is not a public holiday in the UK and people work during the day. I'm not in favour of complaining to the hierarchy at the least thing, but there is a reason for a hierarchy, that of oversight, which did not seem to be working terribly well on this particular occasion
In our benefice for instance we have three different churches not too far away from each other but one celebration, and this seems reasonable particularly when you have two clergy to cover three churches. We normally have a lunchtime daily Eucharist but this was cancelled in order to encourage people to attend the evening one
Which leads me on to another point......It strikes me that we're not terribly good at publicity. I think it's not enough these days just to publicise the service in the weekly pewsheet and/or parish magazine......it needs to be pushed more verbally I think - not in the sense of threatening hell-fire and damnation but more in the way of making a point in the announcements.There are probably all sorts of other things people can think of too. It could be argued this is spoon-feeding but I think this is the way of the world we live in unfortunately. I belong to a couple of organisations - not church ones - so perhaps this is a bit more obvious to me than it otherwise be
Just some thoughts......

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Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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Carys

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The Church of England lists 9 feasts on which Communion must be celebrated in every cathedral and parish church according to canon 14, which can only be dispensed with in accordance of B14A Ascension is one of these 9 and the only which can be transferred to a Sunday is All Saints' Day (whereas the Annunciation is transferred away from Sundays and Holy & Easter Weeks). Thus there should be provision. We had our usual lunchtime communion (with normal attendence) and then a Sung Eucharist for the Deanery in the evening. The vicar was on holiday so we had Deanery clergy preaching and presiding. We had about 70 communicants which was good.

Carys

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O Lord, you have searched me and know me
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Stephen
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Oh that's excellent - about double ours I think.
Did you have cheese and biscuits and wine afterwards?
Ate all the wrong things...... [Devil]

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Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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Rosa Winkel

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# 11424

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I don't put transferring festivals/not doing them at all solely to clergy. The "hardly anyone will turn up" mindset is dominant among laity as well, including many on PCCs I have known, who in fact are saying that they won't turn up. Generally I believe that the Divine Litury if offered for God, not ourselves as such, and that if we believe enough in it others will follow. (Saying that, the Orthodox church here have no alternative than not to do all services on Sundays; the attendance for Holy Friday Vespers was very low)

I went to the 6pm Mass at my local RC church. That the epistle was from Ephesians got my suspicions high, and that the Gospel was from John confirmed that the festival had indeed been transferred. I decided the stay. The priest did his sermon on "problems that Poland face", which included abortion, and that "90% of Russian woman in Warsaw don't speak Polish".

The Pascal Candle wasn't lit.

Generally, it was nice that there was a Mass taking place and that people were there and everything, but it was a bit haphazard. Still, at the end, we went on our knees before the Blessed Sacrament and sung a long hymn to the Mother of God (well, that and 282 of her other titles), complete with an Agnus Dei.

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Zappa
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# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Heh...I've long given up expecting clergy to do their job.

I've never made a hell call, but this steers me close. I think I'll have a cup of coffee instead.

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Stephen
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# 40

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Oh that reminds me - the Paschal candle was lit. It was lit today as well so presumably it'll stay until Pentecost. I couldn't quite remember what we did......

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'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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georgiaboy
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# 11294

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Happy to report: that our TEC parish had a morning low mass and an evening high mass on Ascension DAY, with respectable (if not overflowing) attendance in the evening. Refreshments to follow were announced, but did not appear. [Frown]
UNhappy to report: that based on web-sites and newspaper ads, we were the only TEC parish in the city to provide a celebration of the feast.

(We had Easter 7, AKA Sunday after Ascension, today. So we got to sing all the Ascension hymns we couldn't work in on Thursday night. [Yipee]

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Olaf
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# 11804

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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Heh...I've long given up expecting clergy to do their job.

I've never made a hell call, but this steers me close. I think I'll have a cup of coffee instead.
My pastor did come through for us today, and we had Easter 7 with Ascension undertones.

I'm sorry, Zappa. I know many great ordained men and women. It is frustrating on the part of the non-ordained on occasions like this. If you want to offer a 20-minute Mass on Ascension, you can. I can't.

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Amos

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# 44

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Reporting in late to say that we celebrated the Ascension last Thursday evening at the high altar with a congregation gathered from all the villages of Summerisle, most of the chapel folk, the URC minister (who preached a very decent sermon), a lot of hymns, and a young lady playing a bit of Mozart on the flute during communion. A quick flip through the register, and I saw that the congregation was bigger by 10 than last year's.

Most of the same hymns appeared yesterday when we had the propers for the Sunday after Ascension--though it being the first Sunday of the month there was piano and guitars at one of the churches and so we also sang 'Highway to Heaven' and 'Steal Away.'

The Paschal candle was lit.

When Crown Him With Many Crowns appeared again on the Evensong menu I put my foot down.

[ 02. June 2014, 05:58: Message edited by: Amos ]

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Pyx_e

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# 57

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OLAF hell

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Rosa Winkel

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# 11424

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quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
My pastor did come through for us today, and we had Easter 7 with Ascension undertones.

I noted in the readings for yesterday (the Seventh Sunday of Easter) that the first reading was the Ascension story, again. I can't remember if this is normal. The RCL had us reading Jesus' dialogue in John about the sending of the Paraclete before Ascension.

[ 02. June 2014, 09:35: Message edited by: Rosa Winkel ]

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Amos

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# 44

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The Ascension story from Acts was the compulsory 1st or 2nd reading; the Gospel, however, was John 17 yesterday, whereas on Thursday it was from Luke.

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At the end of the day we face our Maker alongside Jesus--ken

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Heh...I've long given up expecting clergy to do their job.

I've never made a hell call, but this steers me close. I think I'll have a cup of coffee instead.
I try to avoid Hell so I'll say it here:

For some, this is stating 'the bleedin' obvious' but many denizens of Ecclesiantics are living in the past.

When I was confirmed, we were told to go to the Eucharist every Sunday and 'Holy Day of Obligation'. Even the evangelical church in my home town observed every 'red letter day' with an 11am Holy Communion.

Then came the 1960s where all rules were suspect.

The 1970s and 80s where more divorces led to fathers only having access to their children on a Sunday.

Sunday sport and Sunday shopping in the 90s and beyond.

These days, lots only come to church on alternate Sundays.

Weekday festivals don't get much of a look in - lots of people are working lots of overtime, often in fear of losing their jobs in today's economic situation.

And, let's face it, many don't believe in the ascension anyway.

Our cluster of 7 churches had an evening Eucharist which was sparsely attended. Of the two churches I know best, there was nobody from one church and only two from the other.

Carys, above, mentioned a deanery service with 70 people. There are about 21 churches in that deanery so that equals roughly 3 from each church.

If the average age of a C of E churchgoer is 62 - which is my age, then today's clergy are ministering to an increasingly elderly population with old-fashioned expectations.

Meanwhile, the clergy might be much younger, probably running two or three churches. Their spouses have a full-time job with overtime so they have children to put to bed after supervising their homework, bedtime stories etc.

Are we to expect them to add to the strains in their marriage by taking a service to which very few will come?

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Albertus
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# 13356

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Brutally, yes, because that's what they signed up to do. I mean, quite a lot of Sunday services don't have many people there either. Why not knock those on the head too? And then visiting- well, that's only reaching one or two people at a time, isn't it, so that's obviously not a good use of their time. And they can't be expected to be able to deal with all the church and building admin because that's not their primary skillset, so find someone in the parish/ diocesan office who can. Then the clergy can spend all their time, um, attending to their family lives. [Mad]

[ 02. June 2014, 14:37: Message edited by: Albertus ]

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seasick

...over the edge
# 48

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I might remind you that this thread is about Ascension Day. Discussion of whether such services are held and why or why not can be seen as within its remit but the more general question of how the clergy spend their time would require a thread of its own.

seasick, Eccles host

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Matt Black

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# 2210

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quote:
Originally posted by daronmedway:
We had a non-Eucharistic service of praise and prayer to mark the beginning of 10 unbroken days of prayer (24 hours per day) between Ascension and Pentecost.

Careful! That's very close to a Novena!

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dj_ordinaire
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# 4643

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Actually Matt I've sometimes heard it said that this is how novenas were developed - with reference to the nine days of prayer for the Holy Spirit. Not sure if it is true or not but it does fit very neatly!

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by Olaf:
Heh...I've long given up expecting clergy to do their job.

I've never made a hell call, but this steers me close. I think I'll have a cup of coffee instead.
I try to avoid Hell so I'll say it here:

For some, this is stating 'the bleedin' obvious' but many denizens of Ecclesiantics are living in the past.

They're certainly living in a reality I don't recognise, where it actually matters ao much that the clergy should be run ragged if the Ascension is celebrated in the church a few days later. It's like quibbling on a £300 restaurant bill for a massive group of people who had the spiced poppadum and who had the plain one costing 10p less...

[ 04. June 2014, 11:12: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
They're certainly living in a reality I don't recognise, where it actually matters ao much that the clergy should be run ragged if the Ascension is celebrated in the church a few days later.

Hang on - if we're talking about holding mid-week Eucharists for major feasts such as Ascension, there simply aren't that many. "Run ragged" simply cannot be a reasonable description of the difference caused by a couple of extra midweek services a year.

It also seems like everyone is agreeing that all clergy would dearly love to celebrate Ascension on the Thursday if 50 people were going to show up.

The actual question, it seems to me, is what should be done in the (rather common) case that the congregation for an Ascension service on Thursday evening would be two pious old ladies and the rectory cat. Some people would argue that the priest should offer the service anyway. Others argue that running a service for two people is silly.

But talk of "run ragged" in this context misses the point, I think. A priest who is "run ragged" by being asked to offer one additional service every blue moon is run ragged anyway, with or without that final straw.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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I refer you back to leo's post, which explains the potential problem with midweek services.

I just can't get into the mindset of caring that much about it being Sunday instead of Thursday. Don't folk have more pressing issues to get excited about?

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I refer you back to leo's post, which explains the potential problem with midweek services.

Yes, I know. My post says that probably two people would turn up. I agree with leo that, these days, most people will not come to a midweek service (and if people don't turn out for midweek services in Holy Week, they're never going to turn out for Ascension.)

But you're making the assumption that we shouldn't bother with sparsely-attended services, and as we see from the discussion on this thread, that assumption is not universally held.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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No, I'm more saying that it's not worth getting ones knickers in a twist if ones parish priest decides it's not worth the bother for whatever reaaon.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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